FITT Miata Tuning Challenge

[Ronald6]

With my Street Tuning Class Miata racing brakes took my time from 1:42.605 to 1:41.887.
At Rotenboden the first U turn and the long downhill both benefit from stronger braking power. This is the only track/car for street cars that I've seen that benefits from racing brakes. But that long downhill braking zone is extreme.

 

[killerjimbag]

Thanks testers for your input. Great work.

 

[Lionheart2113]

@Otaliema @Lionheart2113
Thanks for the feedback and for testing. I'm happy to read that your thoughts line up what with the tune I chose to post. I had several for that car. The one I posted didn't have the fastest lap but felt the most comfortable and consistent to me.
I never got around to thanking all the experienced FITT tuners for their sage advice they posted in this thread and elsewhere about the tuning process. I'd list you guys, but it was pretty much everyone that in one way or another helped me. Whether it be a tuning guide you've written, or just advice about how you approach tuning a car and knowing when it is finished. I'm really happy you all are reaching out to newcomers like me and I feel that the Spec Miata class was the absolute perfect approach that made me feel comfortable (not having to worry about transmissions, aerodynamics or significant part choices and fiddling with the power limiter for the most optimal setting) It really broke tuning down to the basic and essentials and that I appreciated that.
So thank you all. I'm excited to get my testing underway(been out of the loop for a few days). I will do my best, time willing, to test more than I signed up for simply because I really do appreciate everyones help and encouragement.

New or what have ya, it is a great tune, very well done! Good luck with the testing, hope you can get in loads of it.

 

[Otaliema]

@Otaliema @Lionheart2113
Thanks for the feedback and for testing. I'm happy to read that your thoughts line up what with the tune I chose to post. I had several for that car. The one I posted didn't have the fastest lap but felt the most comfortable and consistent to me.
I never got around to thanking all the experienced FITT tuners for their sage advice they posted in this thread and elsewhere about the tuning process. I'd list you guys, but it was pretty much everyone that in one way or another helped me. Whether it be a tuning guide you've written, or just advice about how you approach tuning a car and knowing when it is finished. I'm really happy you all are reaching out to newcomers like me and I feel that the Spec Miata class was the absolute perfect approach that made me feel comfortable (not having to worry about transmissions, aerodynamics or significant part choices and fiddling with the power limiter for the most optimal setting) It really broke tuning down to the basic and essentials and that I appreciated that.
So thank you all. I'm excited to get my testing underway(been out of the loop for a few days). I will do my best, time willing, to test more than I signed up for simply because I really do appreciate everyones help and encouragement.

Your most welcome, for a first serious tune that's one heck of job ya did, take the feedback and run with it , after the whole thing is all said and done take a look the top three tunes for time and for DC see what they did compaired to you, take notes and keep plugging away at it.

 

[JackWilson]

@Lionheart2113 thanks for the feedback. I'm sorry the car wasn't perfect for you but to be honest I wasn't happy with the tune myself, I just found myself having to rush the tuning process as I haven't had much time lately. I'm going to try raising the ride height a bit and see if that can ease the tightness a bit. I do recall just throwing them ride eight settings in last minute and didn't even test the car to see how it felt. My lesson here is to thoroughly test my car before I go posting it as a finished tune.

And the same is for my roadster setup, good luck to all the testers who have to drive that because I believe it is going to be a bit of a wild one!

@Otaliema

Impressions of the tune; This is a fun one to drive. Stable and fast in the corners, if I got the entry right it was glued to the track through the turn, on the flip side it did have a tendency to power oversteer and had some BLOR issues. It was not as easy to get out of a slide when they happened but the car didn’t want to slide so thet were rare. It didn’t feel as fast as some of the tunes but the time speaks for itself, it was quick around the track. . to power oversteer and had some BLOR issues. It was not as easy to get out of a slide when they happened but the car didn’t want to slide so thet were rare. It didn’t feel as fast as some of the tunes but the time speaks for itself, it was quick around the track. .

Again I think if I raise the ride height a little then this might help with the oversteer and loss of control once the oversteer starts.

Can you explain what BLOR means please haha

 

[iainoflo85]

Can you explain what BLOR means please haha

I think he means brake release oversteer.

 

[DaBomm4]

I think he means brake release oversteer.

Actually, it is Brake Lift Off Rotation, but yes.

 

[JackWilson]

Actually, it is Brake Lift Off Rotation, but yes.

Yeah I get that all the time. What is the cause of it then? weight being transferred to the rear to quickly causing the backend to kick out?

 

[JackWilson]

Actually, it is Brake Lift Off Rotation, but yes.

Yeah I get that all the time. What is the cause of it then? weight being transferred to the rear to quickly causing the backend to kick out?

 

[jtqmopar]

Yeah I get that all the time. What is the cause of it then? weight being transferred to the rear to quickly causing the backend to kick out?

It's less the weight going onto the rear, and more the weight coming off the front. Since the front is unloading it has less to try to force around a corner, and can turn more easily. The rear is upset by this sudden increase in front traction and can't keep up so it spins, and the extra weight adds momentum

 

[JackWilson]

Ok It too me me about 20 attempts to understand what your saying but i think I got it now. So the solution would be to try keep the weight over the front for longer?

And I call myself a tuner

 

[Otaliema]

Ok It too me me about 20 attempts to understand what your saying but i think I got it now. So the solution would be to try keep the weight over the front for longer?

And I call myself a tuner

rear toe adjustment and damper/spring adjustments. Everyone is partly correct and @jtqmopar is the most correct on why it happens to manage it II've found manage of weight transfer and how willing the back is to rotate is the best way to control it, get it right and it speeds you through a corner because you can brake so late your litterly snapping the car around the corner at the apex

 

[JackWilson]

rear toe adjustment and damper/spring adjustments. Everyone is partly correct and @jtqmopar is the most correct on why it happens to manage it II've found manage of weight transfer and how willing the back is to rotate is the best way to control it, get it right and it speeds you through a corner because you can brake so late your litterly snapping the car around the corner at the apex

Yeah I found that if you can control it correctly it does turn into the corner very nicely, especially on the first corner at Streets of Willow. But I also know it to be a bit of a hassle sometimes and It can throw you off. I've just spent a few laps making some adjustments to the car. I think its definitely better than before although I didn't beat my Hot Lap. I'm going to put the updated settings in my garage thread if anybody wants to try the new settings. Your feedback is very useful to me.

 

[ugabugaz]

My Mazda Roadster was suffering from crippling BLOR during my tuning process. It was especially evident in the sharp and downhill right hander right before the large downhill section. To fix this, I flipped my spring ratios from the back being stiffer, to the front being the stiffer end. I also adjusted the damper compression settings a little bit. I'm still going by feel when tuning - I just change things at random until I make the car do what I want it to do. My experience may not translate over

In GT5 I don't remember this effect to be so pronounced, so I never had to deal with it much. I remember I would simply make the brake balance a few clicks lower than what it previously was - and that was enough to crease out any braking issues.

 

[iainoflo85]

Roadster Touring Car Results
All testing done at Silverstone GP
ABS 1 only with my Fanatec wheel and pedals (see signature)

donpost
Time: 2'08.699
DC - 9

Braking felt a bit lacking, trail braking was rather difficult. But very nicely set-up otherwise, handling felt really good.


iainoflo85
Time: 2'07.715
DC - 8

Slight understeer in some corners compared to Don's tune - but much faster out of the corners.


kapnk006
Time: 2'08.053
DC - 6

Unstable under braking in some corners, understeer in the faster corners and the fact that the rear sometimes stepped out on exit made this a rather unpredictable car to drive and harder to get used to. Where the first two cars in this class didn't get any red laps this had quite a few, but once I got used to it the laptimes started to drop. Fast but not exactly stable.


krenkme
Time: 2'09.241
DC - 7

Very nice car to drive, except for the obvious understeer and not the best braking power. Aside from that it did prove to be okay - a nice car, but not the fastest. Quite the reverse of kapok's - stable but not fast.


Otaliema
Time: 2'08.838
DC - 9

A well tuned car, handled beautifully - but it just couldn't keep up with my ghost.


praiano63
Time: 2'07.079
DC - 10

Was absolutely fantastic - easily could have got a 2'06 were it not for the trouble the car always finds in the last set of corners, it understeers there and only there - amazing and fast everywhere else, it just has trouble in the last couple of corners before the finish line.


xande1959
Time: 2'08.618
DC - 8

Understeer was this tune's biggest problem - it was really bad in the low speed corners and the high speed corners. The other corners it was fine.


Motor City Hami
Time: 2'07.934
DC - 9

The usual problems with understeer were apparent here but it was actually quite minor. The biggest trouble I found was wheerspin on corner exit - the wheels didn't lock, but I could hear it and there was a definite drop in revs. The car was very stable and felt fast but corner exit was a struggle, as was slow corner understeer.


shaunm80
Time: 2'10.581
DC - 9

Handling was great, understeer was minimal and only in certain corners but it was the least of my problems. Biggest issue was transmission - Final Gear at 2.800? If that's not a typo then that's the only problem and the reason for the laptime. It was really slow getting into the powerband and it never hit 5th gear once. MCH's ghost sped off at the S/F line so there is some serious issues with the gearing. But everything else was great and since DC is based on feeling rather than laptime I was happy to give it a 9.

 

[Otaliema]

@iainoflo85 with my car where was it dropping the speed/time?

 

[iainoflo85]

@iainoflo85 with my car where was it dropping the speed/time?

Most of the lap - I don't think it was one place in particular.

 

[jules283]

Here are my test results for the Spec. Miata class.

DaBomm4
Time-1.27.877
DC-7
Quick and easy to drive-a bit too much oversteer at time's with not enough rear tyre remaining/available at corner exit.

Chipmonk77
Time-1.28.457
DC-6
Lots of oversteer leading to inconsistent lap time's (my other lap's were in the 29's)-good fun though!

bread82
Time-1.28.231
DC-6
Understeer which builds quickly on corner entry unless power is applied early-car has great stability but lacks precision.

killerjimbag
Time-1.28.402
DC-7
Bit too much understeer for me-very consistent with good braking.

backnfourth
Time-1.27.828
DC-8
Good car-mild understeer-great traction-most enjoyable so far-bit less understeer would improve it even more.

JackWilson
Time-1.28.312
DC-7
Another car I enjoyed a lot-a bit too much lift-off oversteer.

Bowtie-muscle
Time-1.27.593
DC-9
My quickest lap yet-good balance-floats into corners helping driver to stay on line-nice!

HTR Tuning
Time-1.27.988
DC-7
Too much oversteer kept leading me to make mistakes-this car has pace but I am not the right pilot!

Harsk100
Time-1.30.183
DC-5
Too much understeer-too many mistakes from this driver!

DozUK
Time-1.28.454
DC-7
Understeer (a little) takes away precision but gives nice stability.

Ridox 2JZGTE
Time-1.28.736
DC-8
Understeer prevented a quicker lap-I really like this car-felt more like a typical road car than PD's default settings.



Jules.

 

[Otaliema]

Most of the lap - I don't think it was one place in particular.

So it was just slower over all than. I think it might be the aero settings, I'll poke arid with them in a couple days see what I can do with them.

 

[iainoflo85]

So it was just slower over all than. I think it might be the aero settings, I'll poke arid with them in a couple days see what I can do with them.

Yeah, I think it might be that.

 

[praiano63]

Roadster Touring Car Results
All testing done at Silverstone GP
ABS 1 only with my Fanatec wheel and pedals (see signature)

praiano63
Time: 2'07.079
DC - 10

Was absolutely fantastic - easily could have got a 2'06 were it not for the trouble the car always finds in the last set of corners, it understeers there and only there - amazing and fast everywhere else, it just has trouble in the last couple of corners before the finish line.

Thanks for the test iainoflo , happy to see my car work well. I was expecting this result because i am the only one to use a much lower rear ride height with a good amount ,140/90.
This is the only trick i´ve found to make this car turn well , conserving the full rear aero downforce.
This is a bit strange for a race car setting but it seems to work well. It´s also ok for lazy FF or 4WD cars.
><(((((°>°°°°°°°°°

 

[iainoflo85]

Thanks for the test iainoflo , happy to see my car work well. I was expecting this result because i am the only one to use a much lower rear ride height with a good amount ,140/90.
This is the only trick i´ve found to make this car turn well , conserving the full rear aero downforce.
This is a bit strange for a race car setting but it seems to work well. It´s also ok for lazy FF or 4WD cars.
><(((((°>°°°°°°°°°

Yes the ride height did make me do a double take, but it worked really well so congrats.

 

[DigitalBaka]

Geekery has been done!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aq8FTHHZEHVadE5oS29WX2F1Sk1EQ0s5c0RnVXp0NkE&usp=sharing

I've made a rather ambitious template to use for a tune database for these events. Tuners or anyone else who is bored, if you can test it out by entering in some info that would be awesome. All tuners entered into this event should have a column.

There should be no sign-in required to add info but if you are it will keep track of when you edit, not sure if it shows what you edit. Parts are all drop downs, color coded to GT6 and most typed values shouldn't let you enter anything incorrect, like a 12 for rear comp for example.

If any parts or options are missing let me know. I already had to go back and add the body rigidity improvement. Anyway, check it out and if anyone knows min/max values for aero, springs, ride height, etc please share so I can add the validation for those fields. Eventually I want to figure out if Google supports the scripting to add prices and total cost for tuning parts.

I'm such a dork. My back better be feeling better tomorrow or I may get seriously into this.

 

[Lionheart2113]

Geekery has been done!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aq8FTHHZEHVadE5oS29WX2F1Sk1EQ0s5c0RnVXp0NkE&usp=sharing

I've made a rather ambitious template to use for a tune database for these events. Tuners or anyone else who is bored, if you can test it out by entering in some info that would be awesome. All tuners entered into this event should have a column.

There should be no sign-in required to add info but if you are it will keep track of when you edit, not sure if it shows what you edit. Parts are all drop downs, color coded to GT6 and most typed values shouldn't let you enter anything incorrect, like a 12 for rear comp for example.

If any parts or options are missing let me know. I already had to go back and add the body rigidity improvement. Anyway, check it out and if anyone knows min/max values for aero, springs, ride height, etc please share so I can add the validation for those fields. Eventually I want to figure out if Google supports the scripting to add prices and total cost for tuning parts.

I'm such a dork. My back better be feeling better tomorrow or I may get seriously into this.

I just took a quick peek. Transmission settings...might need a few lines to say how we got to those numbers. Top gear up to 4.0, then adjust top speed down, yadda yadda yadda. Hope that your back does get to feeling better.👍

 

[demonchilde]

Sorry about the delay and disappearance of myself these last few days. Im sorry I couldnt be involved with this the way I wanted, and I thank you for the patience showed this week.

Bad things have been "domino-effect" in my life this past week, and my close friends lives as well. I'm hoping to be back on my daily routine by this weekend, (crossing fingers) but its going to be an aftermath of RL junk hitting me also, but I'm pretty good at performing well during emergencies, so I believe things should start to look better soon.
Just to make everyone feel better, noone is dead or in the hospital, I'm still happily married and my wife and kids are just fine, its just a ton of other things went down around me and I've been charged with dealing with/handling/cleaning up the situations. (Yes, its multiple issues at once, lol.)

I really hope everyone has fun during this, and I wish everyone the best of luck. I will pop in on my breaks at work (like I am now) and try to catch up/read how things are going.

Thanks again, and good luck,
~D€MON~

 

[Otaliema]

Geekery has been done!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aq8FTHHZEHVadE5oS29WX2F1Sk1EQ0s5c0RnVXp0NkE&usp=sharing

I've made a rather ambitious template to use for a tune database for these events. Tuners or anyone else who is bored, if you can test it out by entering in some info that would be awesome. All tuners entered into this event should have a column.

There should be no sign-in required to add info but if you are it will keep track of when you edit, not sure if it shows what you edit. Parts are all drop downs, color coded to GT6 and most typed values shouldn't let you enter anything incorrect, like a 12 for rear comp for example.

If any parts or options are missing let me know. I already had to go back and add the body rigidity improvement. Anyway, check it out and if anyone knows min/max values for aero, springs, ride height, etc please share so I can add the validation for those fields. Eventually I want to figure out if Google supports the scripting to add prices and total cost for tuning parts.

I'm such a dork. My back better be feeling better tomorrow or I may get seriously into this.

Took a look see myself, I like it. Couple of suggestions would be to add a weight distribution line at the top below the weight. Add a Torque line (added reference make sure we have all the parts right), I'm not sure how to make the HP and torque have an option to display in metric and imperial with out adding bunch of lines, and reorder the Drive train to have the AYC on the bottom as its only one model car.

@demonchilde good to hear your alive and kicking and so is everyone else. RL>Game is my motto we will still be here when things calm down.

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

@Lionheart2113 @Otaliema @jules283, I appreciate all the feedback in your reviews:tup: Was not sure how my driving/tuning style would work for others and so far about as expected. I also learned to TAKE NOTES BETTER, had the car better but kept fixing it til it was worse. I never got it back to wear I wanted it because I didn't have notes to fall back on. Anyway, 1 goal was to not embarass myself, well 3 have drivin my tune and lived to tell about it....now if the Improved Touring car doesn't kill anyone......................

 

[iainoflo85]

I also learned to TAKE NOTES BETTER, had the car better but kept fixing it til it was worse. I never got it back to wear I wanted it because I didn't have notes to fall back on.

That's the best advice I could give - know when to stop tuning. When your times drop so far, then every other adjustment makes it seem slower. That's when you're done. But definitely keep notes as well. I forget all the time what settings I've changed.

 

[Lionheart2113]

@shaunm80 I just got done building your tune for the improved touring and noticed the weight @ 980kg. Is this correct, you are 55kg over the minimum?! I've been testing for over 5 hours so far today (a little tired) and I just wanted to be sure...

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...ew-seasonal-setups.300860/page-5#post-9396712

 

[Otaliema]

@Onboy123 ok on the second rebuild of your tune I got everything as listed but I'm coming out at 930kg with weight 2, carbon hood and 1kg ballast, is this right? Your listing it as 925 kg

 

[Lionheart2113]

@Otaliema....I just built that one too! Wonder if it's like jtqmopar's tune...if you have a stock hood and reduce the windows, that gives you ballast 1 @ 925kg...