Fix the clutch!!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Nvedamuthu
  • 59 comments
  • 5,883 views
Nvedamuthu

Nvedamuthu

Messages
54
Messages
nvedamuthu
I always here about how flawed the tire model is on this forum, but everyone seems to forget the clutch! The clutch pedal might as well be replaced by a button, and considering the rest of the game has been thoroughly designed, something as easy to model as a clutch is a glaring omission. In games like Race On and GTR Evo, the clutch can be half released and you can feel the point at which the car 'bites' and release the clutch fully. In GT5, you have to immediatly release the clutch for a proper start, rather than how you would do it in a real car. I had some hope in the spec 2 that the clutch had been fixed, but alas, neither the clutch, nor the tire model were fixed...
 
I think it is the whole transmission model that has to be redone.
As far as I understand (I don't have a wheel with a clutch, so I can't test) it isn't possible for example to make tires chirp on low gear changes under acceleration when releasing the clutch quickly due to some kind of hidden "clutch control smoothing" feature.
 
SHIRAKAWA Akira
...due to some kind of hidden "clutch control smoothing" feature.
Click to expand...

true, you need serious power to be able to break traction by dumping the clutch while free rolling in second. it's like the clutch slips.

It's also far too easy to miss gears on the G27, making the stick a bit of a liability in a race.
 
QB1o
true, you need serious power to be able to break traction by dumping the clutch while free rolling in second. it's like the clutch slips.

It's also far too easy to miss gears on the G27, making the stick a bit of a liability in a race.
Click to expand...

This is a huge problem :guilty:
 
Clutch isn't broken, there is slip. However, the physics for extremly low speeds (driving on ice physics glitch) is non-existant.
When you stop your car and start driving slowly as you would in real life - the car starts sliding, clutch works fine but low speed physics is the culprit.
 
Energizerrr
Clutch isn't broken, there is slip. However, the physics for extremly low speeds (driving on ice physics glitch) is non-existant.
When you stop your car and start driving slowly as you would in real life - the car starts sliding, clutch works fine but low speed physics is the culprit.
Click to expand...

Agree, I have made some test run with different cars, driving really slowly like real life. from 0-20km, you can see the 2 rear wheels (or the back of the car) start sliding right (mostly right, not sure why). If feels like you are driving on ice and all the torgue goes to back wheels. Doesn't matter if you drive a 4WD or not.
 
Yeah, the clutch/shifter feel a bit awkward. The faster the car the more pronounced the issue.
 
Energizerrr
Clutch isn't broken, there is slip. However, the physics for extremly low speeds (driving on ice physics glitch) is non-existant.
When you stop your car and start driving slowly as you would in real life - the car starts sliding, clutch works fine but low speed physics is the culprit.
Click to expand...

If you think the clutch works fine, then im guessing you've NEVER driven a standard car in real life....

The OP is right. the clutch is just a button. It has no slip what soever. you're either in neutral or you arent. its garbage

I dont care if they fix it or not because its so horribly slow i dont use it to race online anyway
 
X1000. And honestly, I don't even want it for the racing experience, I want it for simply learning to drive a standard before I get my license. I got lucky on my dad being a car guy and after him simplifying his life by selling the Porsche's and the VW collection and driving an Impala and living in an apartment, he's dieing to have a sports car again so an older WRX is in line for me. Being that there are no cars ready available for me to learn on besides dealer cars at the dealership my brother works at (but brand new cars aren't the best choice for teaching a kid on since I may damage the clutch a bit) it'd be great for me to have GT5 to learn it on. I don't have a computer that can run games like LFS easily so GT5 is my easiest choice.
 
This is a definite, the whole transmission model does need redone. Along with the engine intertia physics. And also the ridiculous gear whine.
 
Rdp616
This is a definite, the whole transmission model does need redone. Along with the engine intertia physics. And also the ridiculous gear whine.
Click to expand...

To be fair, in *some* cars the gear whine is appropriate. But it is annoying when all I really want is to extend the top speed of my '69 Camaro to make it useful to race that the engine noise is completely drowned out by that annoying whine.
 
isnt it amazing pd seemingly so into cars doesnt naturally get the most simple basic stuff like this right...in the past it, used to be worse and cars parked on a slight bank used to slide down sideways lol. I wonder if they even play the game and what goes on in their heads. hmmm that looks right johson....yes there is always a johnson.
 
I own a manual car in real life and find trying to drive it in GT5 with my G27 next to impossible. To me it is slower than the paddles and less reliable especially when starting from a stand still our coming outta of a corner. 1-2 and 2-3 seem to be where it fouls up the most. To me the culprit is that anytime there is some sort of slipping in the drive wheels when shifting up or down, it doesn't let you. So until PD makes it so you can use a shelby cobra and lay an eleven down in first and then go directly into second without waiting for the tires to regaining traction before you shift, I will continue to use the paddles.

Also the clutch does have an engagement distance, it isn't just a button, but it is very short. Take a car out on a flat course and start it out in its highest gear. If it was a button you'd stall it every time.
 
I agree. In truth, I bought a G27 with F1 games in mind (paddle shifters), but I was quite disappointed in trying to use the clutch and shifter in GT5, and it's not something that I could count on for competitive racing.
 
Terrible is a bit harsh, it isn't the best, but it takes some getting used to. I just got my G27 a few weeks ago it it took me a good whole week to get to grips with it. Personally I quite enjoy it, but I wouldn't protest a slight "fix"
 
Mac K
Terrible is a bit harsh, it isn't the best, but it takes some getting used to. I just got my G27 a few weeks ago it it took me a good whole week to get to grips with it. Personally I quite enjoy it, but I wouldn't protest a slight "fix"
Click to expand...

+1. Use a T500 with the TH8 and it's a different story. Yes the clutch model isn't perfect, but with a bit of practice you can be faster with the clutch, especially in downshifts by rev matching. It's much less forgiving than the paddles, but if you want an immersive experience it's the only way to go.
 
BNGTracer
if you want an immersive experience it's the only way to go.
Click to expand...

I don't know if I agree. The flaws take away from the immersion factor and remind me that I'm playing a game... but that's just me.
 
BNGTracer
+1. Use a T500 with the TH8 and it's a different story. Yes the clutch model isn't perfect, but with a bit of practice you can be faster with the clutch, especially in downshifts by rev matching. It's much less forgiving than the paddles, but if you want an immersive experience it's the only way to go.
Click to expand...

I'm still faster with paddles as I find it requires less thinking and coronation, but that's just me.. Using the clutch and the shifter is much more fun though, but I rarely use it online(at least until I "master" it but that'll take awhile)
 
+1. I doubt PD will do any major fixes like this in GT5 though. GT6 yes, but i think GT5 will be minor bugs and tweaks + a steady stream of DLC for another yearbefore GT6 in Q4 2012. Thats my theory.
 
The clutch definately needs some help. When racing online, I just use the auto clutch because using the clutch often costs precious seconds from missed gear changes. I do use the clutch in A-spec and seasonal races, and it has proved quite fun.
 
The game doesn't like it when you shift too fast, especially from 1st to 2nd.

Regarding the low-speed physics, they definitely need some fixing. When I'm travelling at 5 km/h, the car slides around as if the road was covered in ice and gravity was pulling it towards the lower side of the steep-ish road.
 
Boxxsterr
Also the clutch does have an engagement distance, it isn't just a button, but it is very short. Take a car out on a flat course and start it out in its highest gear. If it was a button you'd stall it every time.
Click to expand...

+1:tup:
Longer engagement distance would be good, but they absolutely need to remove that "anti-powershift" thing that came in a update in GT5'P and stayed ever since!
At least remove it when clutch is in use!
It really kills drifting and drag racing, so i usually end up using the paddles..👎
 
You guys remember long time back on GT5:P, using clutch on the game was a wonderful experience.. Until it was clear that wheel user (+clutch) have the edge against pad users especially on the ability of aggressive power shifting (which can't be done now) and true clutch kick (not like today) and therefore on the next prologue update, I think spec II or III, the clutch was becoming something that we have today in GT5.
very sad
 
A solution could be introducing clutch wear and allowing powershifting for non-clutch users too (for example making shifting times proportional to the shift button activation speed, and removing the auto-lift off/auto-blip feature on gear change when, optionally).
 
trk29
Yeah it is does it more from 1st to 2nd then any other gear.
Click to expand...
It is probably proportional to the rpm difference between a gear and its next one (again, can't try myself). Usually the 1>2 gear change is the one with the largest rpm difference.
 
SHIRAKAWA Akira
It is probably proportional to the rpm difference between a gear and its next one (again, can't try myself). Usually the 1>2 gear change is the one with the largest rpm difference.
Click to expand...

Spot on 👍
trk29
Yeah it is does it more from 1st to 2nd then any other gear.
Click to expand...
Try making a fast gear change in the J2 or a car with a eco-gear, and you will notice that it isn't a problem that is specific to 1st to 2th gearing.
 
SHIRAKAWA Akira
It is probably proportional to the rpm difference between a gear and its next one (again, can't try myself). Usually the 1>2 gear change is the one with the largest rpm difference.
Click to expand...

Yes I agree. Every time I change to second gear I have to wait on the rpms to settle down a little before I change to second gear. I hate that because you lose precious time, it is always a gamble to use the clutch online, that is why I end up using the paddles some of the time.
 
I am able to shift from ANY gear to ANY gear at ANY rate(slow or quick) in my dad's car in real life. GT5, I'm most of the time missing the shifting. It doesn't let me shift the way I want. I thought it was me messing it up, but I can do it just fine in my dad's car so it cant be me. Also, you can't accelarate the car slowly using ONLY the clutch.

The use of the clutch doesn't feel progressive, feels like a button. Either you fully press it, or you don't press it at all. You can be quicker with a clutch than paddle shifting in racing but in GT5 that's not possible at all. Maybe, one day, it will come.
 
Simple reason. If we could power shift it would be faster. Anyone without a clutch would have a disadvantage. So to keep it fair "it is what it is"
 
Back