Fixing the GT500: The 'King of the Road' Returns

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You're entirely ignoring the market for the car. Old men who want to relive their youth driving cars that COULD ONLY GO IN A STRAIGHT LINE.

'Cudas, Chargers, Mustangs, GTO's, etc.

These are guys who ran from stoplight to stoplight in the 60's and 70's. They never raced around turns.


The car is built perfectly for that market, and it's incredibly stupid statement to say that there is no excuse.

If people care about cornering why do they SELL these things? Why have I seen at least one every day?

It's simple, if you don't like it, don't buy it.

Well, if the market is mainly for those who used to drive muscle cars like the Cudas, Chargers, and GTOs, why are the new Camaro and Challenger going to have fully independent suspension? It will give both a clear advantage in handling. It's the same market, really. Maybe it's because the baby-boomers who remember the old cars would like to take a GT500 on a twisty road, because the ones they remember couldn't. Also, there's more of a market than those who want to re-live the glory days. While not a major part of the market, there are younger people who like the retro muscle because they never got to experience the they days of the Detroit Iron.

Again, I still say it's an excuse regarding the live axle GT500. Why make the new car just like the old one? The point of redoing it is to make it even better than it was. Who says nobody wants a muscle car that can take turns just as well as current sports car? It's a ridiculous statement.
 
Well, if the market is mainly for those who used to drive muscle cars like the Cudas, Chargers, and GTOs, why are the new Camaro and Challenger going to have fully independent suspension? It will give both a clear advantage in handling. It's the same market, really. Maybe it's because the baby-boomers who remember the old cars would like to take a GT500 on a twisty road, because the ones they remember couldn't. Also, there's more of a market than those who want to re-live the glory days. While not a major part of the market, there are younger people who like the retro muscle because they never got to experience the they days of the Detroit Iron.

Again, I still say it's an excuse regarding the live axle GT500. Why make the new car just like the old one? The point of redoing it is to make it even better than it was. Who says nobody wants a muscle car that can take turns just as well as current sports car? It's a ridiculous statement.

Ford's official reasoning was that 1) The IRS would cost the consumer an extra $5000 of MSRP, 2) The die-hard drag-racing fans wouldn't buy into a car with an IRS, 3) If they needed to add it later, they could, but they didn't want to do it right away...

...That being said, Ford made the right decision. Granted I've hammered cars like the GT500 for not living up to the performance standards set by its SVT predecessor, but when it comes to the 'lesser' GT and the rest of the pack, the LRA keeps prices down and makes a decent performance model an attractive option at an incredibly attractive price (around $27K for a nicely equipped GT). Certainly it is a 'step backward', but how many people have gone out and bought Mustangs? For God's sake they had to turn customers away in 2005, as they just couldn't build enough to meet the demands of the consumers.

Over at GM and Chrysler, like you noted, they are using IRS setups on the new Camaro and the Challenger. That however is due largely to the fact that the chassis that they had sitting around were designed specifically for the IRS setups, and overall, they didn't have much time or much money to play with the chassis... As the consumers wanted the cars five years ago, not two years from now. The big problem is, however, that GM and Chrysler are having a helluva time keeping costs down on the two new cars, and worse off, trying not to pass these costs over to the consumer. So yes, while we may be getting a Camaro or Challenger with an IRS, base prices are likely to be $3-5K more than that of the Mustang... But, I do see your point on the subject, as it would seem you are getting more for your money on the others overall.

So how do we solve this? We continue to hammer Ford to improve the Mustang chassis with an IRS for the 2009 redesign, and then we move on from there. Chances are that Ford will go for the alternate setup, particularly with the given competition, but we'll have to wait and see for the formal announcement.

...Still, I'm all for the KR. As a die-hard GM guy, it takes a lot to woo me towards Ford, and this Mustang has certainly done so. I'm looking forward to the performance tests, as I would hope that they are better than the current GT500. Not significantly better, but there is always room for improvement...
 
It's a true muscle car, built to go fast in a straight line. Live axle is far superior than IRS on a drag strip.

But the problem with that is the car actually.. needs to be fast, first.

I can understand that, I was just hoping that these cars would, oh, I don't know...grow up just a little bit after 40 years. It doesn't help that their competitors will all have IRS, and will handle much better because of it. This is not to say that a solid axle can't handle well (see: 1965 GT350), but Ford's current version doesn't. I don't know why they didn't recreate the greatest 60's Mustang that never was: the GT500EXP. Coulda, woulda, shoulda...didn't.

And for those who say it's selling in spite of the solid rear axle, I was one potential buyer of the GT500 that didn't buy specifically for that reason.
 
And for those who say it's selling in spite of the solid rear axle, I was one potential buyer of the GT500 that didn't buy specifically for that reason.

So you bought a Z06 instead like anyone in their right mind actually thinking of buying a GT500?


(I apologize to that one guy on GTP who does have a GT500. And I further apologize that this is coming from someone who owns a Mustang..)
 
So you bought a Z06 instead like anyone in their right mind actually thinking of buying a GT500?


(I apologize to that one guy on GTP who does have a GT500. And I further apologize that this is coming from someone who owns a Mustang..)

That's perfectly understandable in your case.
























You had the Camaro first. :D
 
So you bought a Z06 instead like anyone in their right mind actually thinking of buying a GT500?


(I apologize to that one guy on GTP who does have a GT500. And I further apologize that this is coming from someone who owns a Mustang..)

Correction, Z51...

It costs the same, is down 100 BHP, and still outruns the GT500 without a problem. Save yourself the cash, and if you want 500 BHP later on down the road, you can always buy-into one of those fancy rear-turbo kits, or the old 'standard' that is the supercharger...

But yes, I understand what you mean...
 
Forced induction doesn't come with a warranty. If you blow a rod, no one's going to give you roadside assistance.
 
What series is that, and from the way you speak of it, it sounds like a one make race, which is never a showcase of a cars ability to perform.

They race in Grand Am (I think), If you want to you can buy one of those cars all race preped from Ford Racing.
 
John, John, John... Trans-Am series, man.

Trans%20Am.JPG


Camaros, Mustangs, Barracudas and Challengers, AMX's...
Of course, if the rest of the cars weren't stellar handlers, then it was just as good as its competition!
 
Correction, Z51...

It costs the same, is down 100 BHP, and still outruns the GT500 without a problem. Save yourself the cash, and if you want 500 BHP later on down the road, you can always buy-into one of those fancy rear-turbo kits, or the old 'standard' that is the supercharger...

But yes, I understand what you mean...


But 600+ hp with the GT is just a pulley swap and a tune (from what I hear, just the tune on a gt500 can net quite a bit of power, bone stock). And thats partly why these GT500s and the previous gen terminators sell so well is the affordable modability. There's a couple of guys on my other forum with cobras with a few grand in mods walkin all over vettes and vipers.
 
The last thing the GT500 needs is more power on the same chassis setup it has, the power is not the GT500's problem. The GT500's problem is that a roush mustang rated at 70bhp(ish) less than the GT500 is notably faster around a track, and despite costing £10,000 more is reccomended far higher than the GT500. The GT500's problem is that nothing was done to make the chassis setup better.
 
The last thing the GT500 needs is more power on the same chassis setup it has, the power is not the GT500's problem. The GT500's problem is that a roush mustang rated at 70bhp(ish) less than the GT500 is notably faster around a track, and despite costing £10,000 more is reccomended far higher than the GT500. The GT500's problem is that nothing was done to make the chassis setup better.

The Gt500 is not set up to be a road racer, its set up to be a drag racer. Ford's main goals with it were mean looks, decent around town comfort, and drag strip domination. A lot more people drag race their mustangs than road race 'em and ford knows this. That roush, with it's blot on blower and unmodified block, isn't gonna take the beating that the gt500's forged internals will. it's all about aftermarket mods with mustangs
 
...Hell, the decidedly 'old-school' GM F-Body had a 3.73 rear-end for most of its final performance versions, and that had 'only' 320-325 BHP, and used the same T-56 derived transmission...

actually the f-bodies used 3.42 rear ends if manual and 3.23 if auto. C5 vettes too ('cept for z06)
 
actually the f-bodies used 3.42 rear ends if manual and 3.23 if auto. C5 vettes too ('cept for z06)

I'm speaking of the late-model SS and Z/28 models. They used 3.73 rear-ends with the Tremec T-56 in the later models, if I'm not mistaken. However, I may be getting my facts confused with the Berger SS, but I believe that utilized (more or less) a modified engine more than anything...

---

Anyhow, anything new is an improvement over the GT500. It needed the re-tuned chassis, and the extra power won't hurt. I'm interested to hear how it will improve against the Z51 (which arguably shouldn't have beaten the GT500), but it still won't be able to dance with the Z06 and SRT-10, no matter how much money you throw at it...

...Either way, the Mustang is still a fun car to play around, and as someone who was once completely and whole-heartedly against anything Ford or Mustang related, the current car is quite nice. That said, I'd be more likely to pick-up a GT and tinker than outright buying a GT500, but that is largely because I'm crazy...
 
People will buy the GT500 and GT500KR for collectability. 99% of the KR models won't even see 10k miles on the odometer in its lifetime. The other 1% will be drag/street kings.

What I can't stand from the haters is that they can't even admit that its a good looking coupe if nothing else. Its comfy, looks good, and its a Mustang so you know with some $$$ it will be in ZO6 territory.

Having said all that, I agree with YSS here. I'd much rather buy a stock Mustang GT and install the Roush IRS and do some engine mods and have the best of both worlds for half the money.
 
I'm speaking of the late-model SS and Z/28 models. They used 3.73 rear-ends with the Tremec T-56 in the later models, if I'm not mistaken. However, I may be getting my facts confused with the Berger SS, but I believe that utilized (more or less) a modified engine more than anything...

That would be the berger cars with the 3.73 gears. I have a couple of friends with 4th gen f-bodies and they verified it:)


JCE3000GT
Having said all that, I agree with YSS here. I'd much rather buy a stock Mustang GT and install the Roush IRS and do some engine mods and have the best of both worlds for half the money.

The Roush doesn't have IRS. Be nice if it did though.
 
I thought Roush sell an IRS kit for the Mustang. Either way, the suspension upgrade you get with the Stage II is much better than the stock GT and GT500.
 
That would be the berger cars with the 3.73 gears. I have a couple of friends with 4th gen f-bodies and they verified it:)

I knew I had heard it somewhere, and I do know that it is a fairly common swap. I would have figured that they would have equipped it, given that it is optional in the trucks, but I guess I was wrong...
 
We have some more GT500KR news

Autoblog

Shelby GT500KR now rated at 550 HP?


When Ford first announced the Shelby GT500, the horsepower rating the automaker gave SVT's delicious new creation was 475. As we're all well aware, the car's actual rating wound up being 500, and the rest, as they say, is history. Fast-forward to April 2007 in New York and the introduction of the further-Shelbyfied GT500KR, a hi-po version of the already monstrous GT500 that reaches into history and borrows the classic "KR" moniker. The GT500KR was announced as having 540 horses underneath its double-scooped, pinned-shut, carbon-composite hood, meaning it would be more adept at immolating tires than the GT500, whose talent in this department is unassailable.

Last week, Carroll Shelby paid a visit to Ford's proving grounds in Dearborn, where the GT500KR prototype was among the cars being flogged and photographed. According to Mustang fansite StangsUnleashed, it was there that Ford announced the KR would receive an additional 10 horsepower over what had already been confirmed, giving the car a grand total of 550. And then, enthusiasts and tire manufacturers wept with joy.

Link: http://www.autoblog.com/2007/09/16/shelby-gt500kr-now-rated-at-550-hp/

There are pictures on there as well.
 
Its still the most bad-ass production Mustang we've had in a long, long time, so I'm quite happy. Still, I'd be quite disappointed if it can't outdo the 430 BHP Corvette.

Me? I'm still waiting for my "average" Mustang GT Bulitt edition...
 
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