Flag rules and pits? Career?

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Lawndart

Lawndart

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TheLordSnowden
LordSnowden
Has anyone heard anything about these critical details for a real racing experience?

I'm thinking something closer to a F1 2010 but with GT cars...

And what about career? Is it about a driver working their way through the ranks or is it based on the car getting gradual upgrades?
 
Career was fairly logical in Shift, if a bit quick, so probably similar. I doubt we are going to have a full RPG work your way up to top GT1 driver, but race progress WILL unlock higher ranks of cars and GT1 specific races.

But flags were totally absent from shift (not even a bloody green and checkered!) and it's already announced that track debris remains on track the whole race, so no full yellows and pace cars. There's no qualifying, either.

Seems that, for all their trumpeting that they work with REAL race drivers, little attention is paid to the RULES of racing, so far. But hey! As long as the physics improve, they are laying a foundation for later detail if enough people clamor for it. I just have little faith that many WILL, as they seem to be mostly pre-teens without a clue about what racing IS... They just see the crashes and the rubbing, and think that is ALL of it!
 
Uh, green flag does exist in Shift 1 :)

You can also see flag marshals with yellows dotted around the track, they just never turned on the logic to make them wave :)
 
boxox
Uh, green flag does exist in Shift 1 :)

You can also see flag marshals with yellows dotted around the track, they just never turned on the logic to make them wave :)
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In fact when ever I got pissed and turned around running the wrong way there would be a marshal waving a black flag on the side of the road and the race would be over... but I only noticed it in the end of last year lolol
 
So you count eye candy with no function as a game feature? What's the POINT of a green flag when there's no yellow or black? You have the starting lights, and then that's IT...

I suppose by that logic, that, as there's a fire truck on Spa's Pit lane (that you can't enter), that S2U has fire marshals and pits! Oh, and a flight simulator, because there are planes overhead!

C'mon, guys...!
 
Race rules to the "simulation" of a racing experience is as important as physics to a sim... Races are won or lost because of these things. We have plenty of "run to the finishline" games...

This is why I reference F1 2010, they even have blue flags... Not to mention they would be easy to disable if you want the simpler driving exp...
 
Yes they got the flags but the Physics and Force feedback sucked big time IMO still a great game...

Destinkeys
So you count eye candy with no function as a game feature? What's the POINT of a green flag when there's no yellow or black? You have the starting lights, and then that's IT...

I suppose by that logic, that, as there's a fire truck on Spa's Pit lane (that you can't enter), that S2U has fire marshals and pits! Oh, and a flight simulator, because there are planes overhead!

C'mon, guys...!
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tribolik
In fact when ever I got pissed and turned around running the wrong way there would be a marshal waving a black flag on the side of the road and the race would be over... but I only noticed it in the end of last year lolol
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There where black flags in shift 1
 
tribolik
There where black flags in shift 1
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Where? You couldn't get disqualified for ANYTHING (in fact, you were REWARDED for doing black flag behavior!). You sure you aren't mixing it up with another game?

I played it on the PS3, and the only flags I saw were being carried by the flag girls!
 
Destinkeys
Where? You couldn't get disqualified for ANYTHING (in fact, you were REWARDED for doing black flag behavior!). You sure you aren't mixing it up with another game?

I played it on the PS3, and the only flags I saw were being carried by the flag girls!
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Try going the wrong way on the track or cutting a few corners (I think 3) and if you dont see the marshal waving the black when you are disqualified -then watch the replay - I only saw it in the end of last year and I played shift for over a year.

Im on the PS3 also and I garantee there are black flags in Shift 1

EDIT: you have to do the instant replay because I just remembered that the race restarts when you are disqualified
 
Ahh.... offline. Idiots were driving whole races backwards online, not a flag in sight. Cut a corner, and MAYBE you get an engine cut, but still no flag.

I probably never saw the flags then, because I don't cut corners and I don't drive backwards! And, for almost the last year, I only played online.

Seems poor design to put it in, and hide it so much, though... Be like having the flag girls flicker onto the screen for a couple of seconds, then vanish. Not even worth the time to code, if that was the case.

The very LEAST that SMS could do is, if they are too lazy to remove the track debris, they could at least give us a caution flag before the curve...
 
Destinkeys
Ahh.... offline. Idiots were driving whole races backwards online, not a flag in sight. Cut a corner, and MAYBE you get an engine cut, but still no flag.

I probably never saw the flags then, because I don't cut corners and I don't drive backwards! And, for almost the last year, I only played online.

Seems poor design to put it in, and hide it so much, though... Be like having the flag girls flicker onto the screen for a couple of seconds, then vanish. Not even worth the time to code, if that was the case.

The very LEAST that SMS could do is, if they are too lazy to remove the track debris, they could at least give us a caution flag before the curve...
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Sorry I forgot - yes it was offline - I tryed the online a few times but it seems that the online players where worst than the AI so I gave up on the online....

I usualy dont drive backwards either or cut corners but I was already bored with the game and when I saw it in the replay I thought it was pretty cool and could have been better used or something...
 
Surely they plan on including pit stops... Otherwise what's the point of modelling tyre wear? Pit stops are one of the most important aspects when it comes to racing strategy and I will be very disappointed if they aren't included
 
A lot of us are asking that question. Thing is, modeling an entire pit crew is quite a job. Rather than no pitstops at all because the job is too large, a simple 'New Tires' button you can use maybe once or twice in a race achieves the same thing, with a fraction of the coding.

But, I'm probably in the minority. Most would rather SEE the pitstop than it actually do what it is supposed to do, in all likelihood.

But, with EA/SMS on a vastly accelerated game release rate (Shift 1 dropped about Oct 09) it's possible we can see these needed changes LONG before PD get around to GT6
 
True, but it would still be a shame if it pit stops weren't included, especially considering this is the second game in the series and it includes licenced race series'.

Pit crews aren't that hard to model, all you need is some motion capture then its pretty much exactly the same each time you pit.
 
If you offered it to me as a choice of no pit stop or magic button pit stop, I'd take the magic button every time.

Unfortunately, if they release a game with magic button pit stops, it's just another point for reviewers and the general public to rip them on. If the feature is not included intentionally, it's explainable in terms of saving development time and so on (even if logically that's complete BS).

I'm guessing at this point they don't want to half-ass things, as there's no real need for them to. They've got enough features to advertise the game. Anything incomplete will only be negative press. They might as well hold features until they're ready, despite the fact that it's a bit irritating to those of us who know that a basic implementation is perfectly acceptable.

With the accelerated release rate (nice phrase, I like that) we're probably going to be seeing a numbered sequence every 18 months or so with major features added. We get feature-incomplete games, but the knowledge that the next version is just around the corner and the optimism that this time it might be that one feature that's really special to you personally that makes the cut.
 
Imari
If you offered it to me as a choice of no pit stop or magic button pit stop, I'd take the magic button every time.

Unfortunately, if they release a game with magic button pit stops, it's just another point for reviewers and the general public to rip them on. If the feature is not included intentionally, it's explainable in terms of saving development time and so on (even if logically that's complete BS).

I'm guessing at this point they don't want to half-ass things, as there's no real need for them to. They've got enough features to advertise the game. Anything incomplete will only be negative press. They might as well hold features until they're ready, despite the fact that it's a bit irritating to those of us who know that a basic implementation is perfectly acceptable.

With the accelerated release rate (nice phrase, I like that) we're probably going to be seeing a numbered sequence every 18 months or so with major features added. We get feature-incomplete games, but the knowledge that the next version is just around the corner and the optimism that this time it might be that one feature that's really special to you personally that makes the cut.
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Exactly just go onto the F1 2010 forum and see for yourselfs the complaints abot how the car runs in auto pilot when in the pits - people where really waiting to be able to run over all the pit crews etc, etc ... to make it more real
 
Destinkeys
But flags were totally absent from shift (not even a bloody green and checkered!) and it's already announced that track debris remains on track the whole race, so no full yellows and pace cars. There's no qualifying, either.
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I wonder what kind of "real racing" it's going to simulate :banghead:
 
Here we go again, what is real racing? Racing is "a contest of speed" (says so in the dictionary). Some folks have different meaning for racing. So real racing, maybe means sanctioned racing?

With or without flags it is racing, unless you are drifting.
 
But without adequate AI, unless you put your Fiat 500 up against the AI's Veyron (figuratively), you aren't 'racing', you are just beating up on a cripple.

And flags are just the visual expression of the RULES of racing. Pretty much any track in the world insists on rules, to promote safety and sportsmanship. Bash people around, black flag. Big wreck around the corner, yellow flag. Read up on it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racing_flags

They aren't just eye candy.

Unless a racing game is raced on streets, through traffic and pedestrians, with no rules at all, when it is done on race tracks with race cars, then the rules of the sport and the visual display of them is essential.

Or it becomes 'soccer' where you can pick up the ball, the referee has no whistle, and you can run it into the goal with no penalty. And THAT, my friend is not 'soccer'. And 'racing' with no rules is not 'racing'. It is just hooligans, hooning around.
 
Racing can be whatever you perceive it to be. I watch a LOT of real racing, so it seems simple to me but apparently its not as black and white for some people.

A racing game should have qualifying, pit stops, racing rules (including flags) and of course competitive AI. Not sure how you could make a racing game without those things...
 
Destinkeys
But without adequate AI, unless you put your Fiat 500 up against the AI's Veyron (figuratively), you aren't 'racing', you are just beating up on a cripple.

And flags are just the visual expression of the RULES of racing. Pretty much any track in the world insists on rules, to promote safety and sportsmanship. Bash people around, black flag. Big wreck around the corner, yellow flag. Read up on it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racing_flags

They aren't just eye candy.

Unless a racing game is raced on streets, through traffic and pedestrians, with no rules at all, when it is done on race tracks with race cars, then the rules of the sport and the visual display of them is essential.

Or it becomes 'soccer' where you can pick up the ball, the referee has no whistle, and you can run it into the goal with no penalty. And THAT, my friend is not 'soccer'. And 'racing' with no rules is not 'racing'. It is just hooligans, hooning around.
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Exactly, racing is not only a contest of speed, "real racing" is intended as a simulation of real life racing and if in real life there are flag rules a simulation is supposed to follow these rules. Both Shift 2 and GT5 are incomplete from this point of view.
 
CarreraGT
A racing game should have qualifying, pit stops, racing rules (including flags) and of course competitive AI. Not sure how you could make a racing game without those things...
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How about Rally or Drag or Hillclimbs? Pretty sure that's still racing :P

Sorry, had to do it.
 
HKS racer
Exactly, racing is not only a contest of speed, "real racing" is intended as a simulation of real life racing and if in real life there are flag rules a simulation is supposed to follow these rules. Both Shift 2 and GT5 are incomplete from this point of view.
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Wrong!! Shift is already a racing game and it would need flags, rules and pitstops to offer an extremely realistic race experience.

GT5 would need a complete rewrite! The AI is awful and the collision physics are non-existant! But it has pit-stops... big deal! It's like buying a car without an engine, without wheels, without a steering wheel but with leather seats and a radio!
 
Well, I guess there is still Grid 2 to see if proper racing rules get in a gt game... I seriously doubt Forza 4 will have them. We all know who's playbook they try and follow... :P
 
vrooom
Wrong!! Shift is already a racing game and it would need flags, rules and pitstops to offer an extremely realistic race experience.
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Wrong? Even Shift series need flag rules and pitstop to simulate real life :) And don't believe every time you bump opponents in real life, your car always keep going, as happen in Shift. Sometimes very light contacts are enough to break your suspension. What about mechanical failures? Both gt5 and shift 2 are still too arcadey in these kind of things.
 

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