FM4- One for the casuals?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Gallinho
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bleurabbit7
J
This thread has taken a wrong turn. IMO
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Yes it has, i'm not questioning who's a casual racer or not, someone with a control pad can be 10 times more hardcore than someone with a wheel. I'm questioning the very casual structure of the singleplayer events in FM4.

LUMINUS said;
I agree with the races, though. The AI's pace is one thing, but I dislike the very short races. Mostly because it feels so very unnatural. It's just weird that you've got to pass seven other drivers in three minutes, or something like that.
[/COLOR]

Exactly my point, it never feel's like proper racing and leaves me wanting more.

Wolfe
Gallinho kept saying this too. Dunno where you guys get that feeling while driving, but that's definitely false. And I haven't noticed any "oscillating AI," as you both mentioned.
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Yeah, they scale back on pyhsics for online races to reduce bandwidth and make it run more smoothly, its the same for every console racer. Surely youve noticed your cars handle a little differently online than they do offline. My laptimes with the same car and setup on the same track are slower online than offline.
 
Gallinho
Surely youve noticed your cars handle a little differently online than they do offline. My laptimes with the same car and setup on the same track are slower online than offline.
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Never once have I noticed this in any of the forza games, nor have I seen it mentioned anywhere other than this thread for forza 3 or 4.

The only data transmitted across bandwidth is car position, and telemetry data for replays. This is why in replays of race with people with sketchy connections you can see cars slightly skipping across the tarmac along with jumpy telemetry figures when lag occurs. And also why you can only have a maximum of 12 AI racers. 15 AI cars would be too much physics calculations for the Local console to handle.
 
I feel like the cars I drive seem looser (more prone to oversteer) online than they do offline. I really have to fight to keep control online much more than in the World Tour.
 
bleurabbit7
Just because a player uses a controller does not make them a 'casual gamer'. I use a controller and I am very heavy into racing games. Hell, I probably play more than some steering wheel players. I can't go out and dump $500 on a steering wheel. But to name players as 'casual gamers' does not make you better than them because you play with a steering wheel.

....
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This is why I wrote it's not the only indicator but no doubt if you had the cash and love sim racing you would get a wheel.
I didn't know there were something wrong with being a "casual" gamer. I'm casual when it comes to fishing while I have friends where fishing is their main hobby.
Luminis
Mostly the guy who's got the money to spare. And, at least judging by the folks I know in person, it's usually guys who are still living in their parents' basement who are able to afford that kind of gaming equipment. The rest of us is pressed hard enough to pay the rent and food and stuff.

See, I can throw some stereotypes around, too...
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Except normally the exact opposite is true. Those who have jobs are the ones who more likely to own a descent gaming PC and equipment like wheels and actually "buy" PC games while the youth are more likely to pirate them.
Of course there are always exceptions.
I spend my extra cash on wheels, a racing rig, triple screen and PC because sim racing is my hobby.
 
Well when I race online the physics are noticeably different and the Ai cars oscillate from side to side almost liked they're not touching the track and I've got an excellent Internet connection.
But I didn't start this thread to discuss online physics, it was to discuss the lack of any substantial racing in the singleplayer events.
 
I have found the lack of long races very disappointing, and the fact I never have to make pit-stops is baffling.

I do love the game overall, but still.
 
Gallinho
Well when I race online the physics are noticeably different and the Ai cars oscillate from side to side almost liked they're not touching the track and I've got an excellent Internet connection.
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I've never noticed this on a single Forza title, nor ever heard it mentioned.

Would you be so kind at to provide some detail to this and if possible evidence (such as reply movies that show the difference).



Gallinho
But I didn't start this thread to discuss online physics, it was to discuss the lack of any substantial racing in the singleplayer events.
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Door's been opened and it fits with the thread title.


Scaff
 
I've played one full lap of the nürburgring in the world tour. If you have not look in the events list it should be in there. Also I've noticed the floating cars ai and actual users if that's what some of you are talking about
 
Kiladonut
I've played one full lap of the nürburgring in the world tour. If you have not look in the events list it should be in there. Also I've noticed the floating cars ai and actual users if that's what some of you are talking about
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World Tour races doesn't always match those in the event list. Full lap race of Nurburgring is in WT only.
 
Gallinho
lol nice one, so no comment about how i said about not wanting to do long races online because of poor physics and the line dropping out, or the people without internet not being able to to longer races with the need to pit stop?
Just more high quality sarcasm, thanks for posting.
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1. poor physics is your opinion
2. my connection doesn't drop out
3. people without internet is none of my business or concern, they aren't part of the sim race community. They're loners
4. You're welcome
 
LickitySplit
1. poor physics is your opinion
2. my connection doesn't drop out
3. people without internet is none of my business or concern, they aren't part of the sim race community. They're loners
4. You're welcome
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I really cant believe you. I've travelled extensively in my younger days, one thing that has always stayed with me is the amount of Canadians i met on my travels who were some of the nicest, proud, down to earth and intelligent people i've ever met.

Why are you single handedly trying to destroy that memory?

"people without internet connection are loners"

possible to most stupid ill-conceived statement ever.

Do you:

a) even drive a car in real life
b) own your own place
c) have a job
d) have friends you see face to face that have real names not gamer tags
e) are you American and not really Canadian?
 
artboy76
I really cant believe you. I've travelled extensively in my younger days, one thing that has always stayed with me is the amount of Canadians i met on my travels who were some of the nicest, proud, down to earth and intelligent people i've ever met.

Why are you single handedly trying to destroy that memory?

"people without internet connection are loners"

possible to most stupid ill-conceived statement ever.

Do you:

a) even drive a car in real life
b) own your own place
c) have a job
d) have friends you see face to face that have real names not gamer tags
e) are you American and not really Canadian?
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a) You can really drive cars in real life? Are you sure? What country are you from Mr. Traveller that actually lets you drive cars in real life?

b) My own place? You mean you can live outside the shelter? With heat and running water and maybe even a radio?

c) What's a job? Is that something that replaces pan handling and collecting bottles. I had to pull so many bottle returns from the dumpster to afford my CSR Elite pre-order

d) Friends with a face? You mean friends on FACEbook?

e) You mean is my mortgage foreclosed or not?

What memories of yours that get destroyed is entirely your business and none of mine.

Most ill-conceived statement ever? Wow do I get a prize from Mr. World Traveller?

So funny watching people stereo-type the second largest country in the world
 
LickitySplit
That's because you're using your wheel to turn on the console. Turn on the console, then load FM4 then turn on the Fanatec wheel and 900° will work just fine. My wheel has been on 900° since FM4 came out.
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I can't get 900 to be great for me, it simply takes too much of a turn imo when in a race car. I am turning the xbox on before my GT2 so I don't think it is a problem that way. I tend to just keep the SEN on 'OFF'
 
331 LX
I can't get 900 to be great for me, it simply takes too much of a turn imo when in a race car. I am turning the xbox on before my GT2 so I don't think it is a problem that way. I tend to just keep the SEN on 'OFF'
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Don't know what to say. It works perfectly fine for me with my PWTS.
 
LickitySplit
3. people without internet is none of my business or concern, they aren't part of the sim race community. They're loners
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You don't happen to work for turn10 do you?


I know a few of my friends have their xbox/ps3 setup with a wheel in the spare room of the house because their wives/girlfriends don't want it setup in the living room and so its too far away from the router to be able to get a great connection for online racing but that doesn't mean they arent sim racers or loners.

To be honest how can you call yourself part of a sim racing community when you come in forums just being obnoxious and sarcastic?
 
Okay, going through this thread has, in all honesty, given me a headache. So I'm going to say this once and only once: the attitudes, and the back and forth bickering stops now.

Or this thread will be closed, and anyone forgoing this warning will find themselves on the receiving end of an infraction. If you can't play nicely then you won't get to play at all.

Simple as.
 
Terronium-12
Okay, going through this thread has, in all honesty, given me a headache. So I'm going to say this once and only once: the attitudes, and the back and forth bickering stops now.

Or this thread will be closed, and anyone forgoing this warning will find themselves on the receiving end of an infraction. If you can play nicely then you won't get to play at all.

Simple as.
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Well said, couldnt agree more
 
Terronium-12
Okay, going through this thread has, in all honesty, given me a headache. So I'm going to say this once and only once: the attitudes, and the back and forth bickering stops now.

Or this thread will be closed, and anyone forgoing this warning will find themselves on the receiving end of an infraction. If you can't play nicely then you won't get to play at all.

Simple as.
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Thank you.
 
Gallinho
Yeah, they scale back on pyhsics for online races to reduce bandwidth and make it run more smoothly, its the same for every console racer. Surely youve noticed your cars handle a little differently online than they do offline. My laptimes with the same car and setup on the same track are slower online than offline.
Click to expand...

This isn't GT5.

All physics are calculated locally. None of it is transmitted over your connection. The things that are, are your cars position, direction of travel and speed.
 
Unfortunately, it is aimed at the casual gamer, and to an even greater degree the online players.

Back of the pack starts in every race are a dead giveaway, harkening back to Test Drive and arcade-ish games of 20 yrs ago.

Great strides have been made in graphics, cars, physics, and tracks.

However other than the livery addition, and that's a borderline racing feature, the other core racing aspects of the offline game have suffered miserably and some are slowly being eliminated.

The OP points this out in glaring clarity.

IMO the advent and proliferation of "online" racing is the root cause of this deterioration.
I think this has been interpreted by Turn10 and PD as the a green light to provide cars tracks and physics,
while shorting and even cutting the single player racing aspects, leaving it more for the entry level player.

There is a great seperation of racing gamers underway forming into "offline" and "online", with some still being both to some extent.

It seems the "online gamers" are unconcerned, since they just need to gain the cars and tracks through a basic tutorial and head online.
For the Game making industry, this is the ideal combination, having them close to the company store where more money can be made, and reducing resources to expend on a one time single player sale.

This is a sad but sure trend.

Having played both ways for many years now, IMO "online" is no substitute for the convenience and challenge of a good quality single player game.
However, I believe that opinion, is fast becoming the minority one and we may have seen the last of a great console offline racing game.
 
SuperCobraJet
<snip>...

IMO the advent and proliferation of "online" racing is the root cause of this deterioration.
I think this has been interpreted by Turn10 and PD as the a green light to provide cars tracks and physics,
while shorting and even cutting the single player racing aspects, leaving it more for the entry level player.

<snip>...

This is a sad but sure trend.

Having played both ways for many years now, IMO "online" is no substitute for the convenience and challenge of a good quality single player game.
However, I believe that opinion, is fast becoming the minority one and we may have seen the last of a great console offline racing game.
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Well said! You've made a great point and I couldn't agree more.
 
SuperCobraJet
IMO the advent and proliferation of "online" racing is the root cause of this deterioration.
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Welcome to 2011. I mean, this is a trend that has been going on for, well, this entire generation of consoles and even longer on the PC. The original Xbox, with its XBL marked the point when online gaming became normal on consoles as well.
SuperCobraJet
There is a great seperation of racing gamers underway forming into "offline" and "online", with some still being both to some extent.
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That seperation won't last long. Give it a few years, and games that are actually worth a dime when played offline will be becoming really rare.

We're close to it right now, anyways. Games like Skyrim or Dark Souls, which offer trmendous amounts of content without being online are already the exception, not the rule, I think.

And that's coming from someone who's playing offline for the most part.
 
If basic offline equates to "casual" what does that make iRacing?

That game has no A.I. No Career mode. Essentially all you get are a bunch of cars/tracks and a hotlap mode. Try telling the iRacing forums their game is casual. lol

To me, playing offline is as causal as it gets these days. Forza has always been about community interaction and always has been miles ahead of it's biggest competitor in most aspects of this since it was released on the original xbox.

I'll take the physics advancements and more tracks, cars and online options from PD and T10 rather than they keep fruitlessly chasing advancements with "Human like" A.I which realistically need a supercomputer to make work. That way I can race the way I want offline. not in a way predefined as what the developers deem fun. Xbox live subscription is a worthy price to pay for years of enjoyment.

Maybe I'm bias as since completing the world tour in this game (and most of the events list in FM3) I'm happy just to hotlap cars around the various tracks, this is as much fun if not twice as fun as "hotlapping" with the A.I in what was called "endurance races" from the FM3 events list.

Endurance races where nobody needed to pit.
Endurance races where the A.I were as slow as a snail.
Endurance races where an endurance race is only as long as a regular sprint race in the real world (1 hour).
Endurance races no strategy is needed.

Project CARS are introducing a full on career mode in which you start in a Kart and work your way up to F1 or the top flight equivalent. but honestly. If you have finished that once, are you likely to bother wanting to re-start? The TOCA Race-driver series something similar, it was a play-though once game for me then I stuck with the V8 Supercar events.

Forza offline mode is little more than a way to earn cash to buy and tune the cars I like (then race against real people should the mood take me). No matter what they add it will always be that way for me.
 
I'm Motarded
I'll take the physics advancements and more tracks, cars and online options from PD and T10 rather than they keep fruitlessly chasing advancements with "Human like" A.I which realistically need a supercomputer to make work. That way I can race the way I want offline. not in a way predefined as what the developers deem fun.
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That's the problem. You CAN'T race the way you want offline. We can't even pick the number of laps to run in a split screen race!!

That's another shift, one that is well into its swing. The death of split-screen multiplayer. With all these pixels and large TVs, its abandonment is both confusing and frustrating.

Edit: You can pick the number of laps in split screen. That's what I get for posting while away from my Xbox... :ouch:
 
I'm Motarded said;
"If basic offline equates to "casual" what does that make iRacing?

That game has no A.I. No Career mode. Essentially all you get are a bunch of cars/tracks and a hotlap mode. Try telling the iRacing forums their game is casual. lol "


I think that comparison is a little bit crude to be honest, iracing is a hardcore online racing simulator where thousands of racedrivers (including real world professionals) race in settings and a structure that mirror real world motorsport almost exactly, with official leagues and world championships run over realtime seasons. It also implements strict penalty systems and safety measures giving drivers a rating based on performance and the safety of they're driving. Iracing is strictly an online racing sim and doesn't pretend to be anything else. You can't even play iracing if you haven't got the Internet!

Forza 4 , however, has car soccer and ten pin bowling and online has nothing like the depth or structure of iracing and doesn't come close to mirroring real world motorsport. If forza did have the online depth of iracing with official leagues/championships where I could earn promotion to higher levels based on my performance and safety rating, I wouldn't be so disappointed with it's offline offerings. But if it can't offer that depth and structure online it should try and offer it offline IMO, just like gt5 did with it's enduros, many championships and the 24hr events.

I think console gamers are still crying out for solid, satisfying singleplayer racing games and until console race games come close to matching iracing in their online offerings that will always be the case.
 
SuperCobraJet
Unfortunately, it is aimed at the casual gamer, and to an even greater degree the online players.

Back of the pack starts in every race are a dead giveaway, harkening back to Test Drive and arcade-ish games of 20 yrs ago.

Great strides have been made in graphics, cars, physics, and tracks.

However other than the livery addition, and that's a borderline racing feature, the other core racing aspects of the offline game have suffered miserably and some are slowly being eliminated.

The OP points this out in glaring clarity.

IMO the advent and proliferation of "online" racing is the root cause of this deterioration.
I think this has been interpreted by Turn10 and PD as the a green light to provide cars tracks and physics,
while shorting and even cutting the single player racing aspects, leaving it more for the entry level player.

There is a great seperation of racing gamers underway forming into "offline" and "online", with some still being both to some extent.

It seems the "online gamers" are unconcerned, since they just need to gain the cars and tracks through a basic tutorial and head online.
For the Game making industry, this is the ideal combination, having them close to the company store where more money can be made, and reducing resources to expend on a one time single player sale.

This is a sad but sure trend.

Having played both ways for many years now, IMO "online" is no substitute for the convenience and challenge of a good quality single player game.
However, I believe that opinion, is fast becoming the minority one and we may have seen the last of a great console offline racing game.
Click to expand...


A complete contradiction.....and a long way to go about making one.

I sort of get where your going with it aside from the 'casual' gamer angle. Surely if there were more to do 'offline' then that would be playing to the 'casual' crowd.

But before i go further... this 'casual' gamer tag is such a weird one.

In gaming terms given the time i could happily play xbox ALL DAY, i mean that, i love it. But i know i have to be realistic and grab an hour here or there, mainly from 10pm till say 11pm. So yeah i would be called casual. But i still want great features and realism in my driving games. Some kid with bad parents could be allowed to spend all day playing Mario Kart, does that make him a hardcore sim gamer??

Anyway, point is Turn 10 have had to adapt and be clever and this is the reason we have a Forza 4 at all, and we will get Forza 5 6 7 etc etc, cause they know what they need to do to sell games, keep Microsoft happy and above all keep the gamers in the MAJORITY happy......
Its simple business and any good business will be run this way, if not you go under.
 

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