FM5 weird hand animation when shifting.

  • Thread starter mister dog
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There is no perfect racer for all of us. There is no game out there that I myself can say they have listened to consumers. I can pick holes too like with all racers. But let's say that we have the access like what Dan and Kaz has, would we do something greater with the same amount of funds? Absolutely! Would anybody have done the same things they have? I don't think so. I still stand by that their staff and themselves are out of touch with the outside world.

I am not saying that FM5 would suck. I still like what they have to offer and would put my money on it way before the GT series. I don't rely on Kaz and what he says.
 
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How much funds do they have for stuff like this? We know GT has a huge budget, but it also has huge license and advertisement costs. It's impossible to say we would do things differently if we don't know the exact decisions they have to make or are forced to make throughout development of these huge games. It's easy to post on forums on how things should be though.

This is the 'Cinematic lead' at T10 http://landinwilliams.com/portfolio/stance-wars-nw-built/
Have a look at his media page. Please tell me he is out of touch with the outside world. This is just one of the many staff that T10 employ, even community members regularly since 2007.
 
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That is true. I can't say they are not making any effort at all. I am mainly attacking Kaz and Dan. I would hate to be part of their staff that wants this and that and it can't happen. That video is cool! Too bad most likely nothing of that would come of it. There are many things that could have been better like in jobs we work in but the big bosses just ignore. Easier said than done. I guess if they pay my bills I would just have to roll with it, like it or not. Still there is politics and money that plays a factor in this. You can't do this or do that and you have to buy this and that. I don't like it but it is what it is. I do appreciate certain things that they change because of what us consumers say. Kaz and them, well they just don't listen and think their crap don't stink. But I will continue to purchase their games anyways!
 
I have to believe Dan and Kaz, and their teams, would like nothing better than a racing game that was without bugs and incorporated every feature requested by the gaming community, but the reality of software development is to shoot for perfection but except something less based on the development time line and funds available. I don't know these guys from Adam, why should I assume they don't care.
For kicks I paid attention to the shifting animation in a few of the Assetto Corsa cars. I picked this game as in the mind of many in PC sim racing community it is the next best thing since sliced bread. I noticed that the paddle shifting in the Ferrari 458 Italia is very delayed, not close to the shift sound, no one seems to notice or cares.
This is a game, a "beta" game, that costs $39 US, with only 11 cars, only 5 tracks, without AI, no career, no multi-player, no visual damage, no livery editor, no leader boards, no customization, no weather, no night racing, etc, etc... These racers are not buying a bug free or full feature game, shifting animation is the least of their desires.
It's all expectations... my expectations are high for FM but where it matters. My expectations of AC is high also but I, and many of the PC sim community, can appreciate what we have and hope for perfection.

I did buy AC even knowing it's limitations.
 
FuzzyFassbender
Just a comment, I am not attacking your opinions. I find it surprising how some focus on "...these little nuisances,...", not that my lack of focus in anyway makes these little nuances of less importance to those the pick up on them. There are so many little nusances that I don't notice until someone points them out - the shifting animation for one. When I am racing I am not focused, cannot focus, on the hand animation. A good virtual racing experience is the sum of the parts, no racing game is perfect or close to perfect - not going to offer a "vs" comparison to other games.
You make comment on how "Gran Turismo nailed the animation.." and I can't argue, or care to argue the point, as I can't say I focused on the shifting animation in GT either. Again, not going to offer a "vs" comment on GT faults.
Maybe I am losing sight of the reason these topics are started in the first place; the desire to discuss (hopefully not the need to nitpick for the sake of nitpicking).
Overall, regardless of the small nuances, FM just keeps getting better which is a good thing and worthy of a purchase in my book.
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Right, let me elaborate on just 2 things for now:

- I was referring to the car animation during replays for the most part. Even GT has pitfalls when we're talking cockpit animation, but it's generally more convincing than FM's plastic movements.
- FM is no doubt a great title, one that has given me countless hours of adrenaline-fueled high speed driving fun. Unfortunately, to me it seems T10 chooses to listen to fans selectively and at times simply overlook issues that simply should not be present in a game that's now gracing a third console.
 
Mazyata
The details do count. How come the things most vid game racers know and what Fortza or GT does not know goes unnoticed? Why are these little things being left behind? It is like Kaz and Dan refuses to listen to the outside world and continues to skip out on details. You and I and the rest of the world would have added and done certain things differently and better. These FOOLS and staff are not on point with what is currently going on. They are not listening to consumers and it is simple as that. I guess we can all thank the fanboys and sheep for lack of features and progression because they just defend and accept what is given to them. It is like we have to settle with something that could have been much more.

They are not doing the best that they can be. They are out of touch and they need someone within their corporation to step it up. Or maybe they are just like Apple and release features in small increments to continue the cash flow.
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I think Kaz and Dan have holed themselves up in little cubes where they feel their opinions overrule those who are often the most hardcore of fans. They are capable of a heck of a lot more. These big corporations eventually start resorting to tactics where raking in the most profits is first priority. Give the consumer more of everything, make it a little bit better, and they'll keep begging for more. But just give them enough so they keep begging for more. Makes marketing sense if you think about it.

But if companies like T10 expect us to continue buying products without making marked innovations, then as a consumer, I would be highly motivated to shift to a different product altogether.

To me personally, as a car and racing nut, realism is top priority. And T10 are still quite a way from getting it completely right. You either develop a full-blown sim, or an arcade title. Not a big fan of in-betweens.
 
Mazyata
That is true. I can't say they are not making any effort at all. I am mainly attacking Kaz and Dan. I would hate to be part of their staff that wants this and that and it can't happen. That video is cool! Too bad most likely nothing of that would come of it. There are many things that could have been better like in jobs we work in but the big bosses just ignore. Easier said than done. I guess if they pay my bills I would just have to roll with it, like it or not. Still there is politics and money that plays a factor in this. You can't do this or do that and you have to buy this and that. I don't like it but it is what it is. I do appreciate certain things that they change because of what us consumers say. Kaz and them, well they just don't listen and think their crap don't stink. But I will continue to purchase their games anyways!
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I completely acknowledge the politics bit. The entertainment industry's rife with politics and monopolies. Once the Xbox One becomes more affordable, I just might purchase FM5, as I have been an avid fan of the series since FM2 debuted on the X360.

Losing interest though. Sick of just buying and tuning cars, racing them on the same tracks over and over. I'm ready for more... night driving, weather conditions, full-blown drag racing, rally driving, lengthy careers, full-length races (including races in arcade mode), endurance races, pit stops, more upgrade options, the options to turn on 100% true to life physics, car and race sounds go hand in hand with the real thing .. alas, the list goes on and on!

Anybody remember GT4? There was just SO MUCH to do in that game!
 
FuzzyFassbender
I have to believe Dan and Kaz, and their teams, would like nothing better than a racing game that was without bugs and incorporated every feature requested by the gaming community, but the reality of software development is to shoot for perfection but except something less based on the development time line and funds available. I don't know these guys from Adam, why should I assume they don't care.
For kicks I paid attention to the shifting animation in a few of the Assetto Corsa cars. I picked this game as in the mind of many in PC sim racing community it is the next best thing since sliced bread. I noticed that the paddle shifting in the Ferrari 458 Italia is very delayed, not close to the shift sound, no one seems to notice or cares.
This is a game, a "beta" game, that costs $39 US, with only 11 cars, only 5 tracks, without AI, no career, no multi-player, no visual damage, no livery editor, no leader boards, no customization, no weather, no night racing, etc, etc... These racers are not buying a bug free or full feature game, shifting animation is the least of their desires.
It's all expectations... my expectations are high for FM but where it matters. My expectations of AC is high also but I, and many of the PC sim community, can appreciate what we have and hope for perfection.

I did buy AC even knowing it's limitations.
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There was a game that came out a few years ago.. Ferrari Challenge or something like that. It had just a few tracks and a couple of Ferraris to play around with. Not that impressive though, but I saw a vid of cockpit view at the Mugello track, and the wheel and gearshift animation was just spot on. Left me drolling...!
 
On almost all the videos i've seen of FM5 so far from cars with paddle shifters, i can't stop noticing those hands going of the wheel every time there's a shift. Looks so damn awkward.

Call me a freak but it would really bother my experience if they keep it like this for FM6...
 
After a while, you stop noticing it, just like the reflection on the windshield. What really grinds my gears is when the driver pulls his hand off the wheel to flex it in the middle of a turn.
 
Yeah, the hand stretch was a really cool detail until it happened in a turn. 180mph through the long banked turn on Prague is not the time to let go of the wheel. Actually felt so out of place it ruined my concentration for a bit.
 
I wish the shifting animation was predictive like GT's. Once you get close to redline, the driver's hand moves to the shifter.
 
HAL20XX
I wish the shifting animation was predictive like GT's. Once you get close to redline, the driver's hand moves to the shifter.
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Dating back to FM2 when it premiered, I think they've always been lazy with the animation/data capture. That's just how it is. And they're just not learning from past mistakes.

Sad.
 
Speedster911
Dating back to FM2 when it premiered, I think they've always been lazy with the animation/data capture. That's just how it is. And they're just not learning from past mistakes.

Sad.
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FM2 didn't have interiors?

GT's way is ok but it occasionally gets confused too, Race Pro is possibly the best out of the lot!

 
^^ Interiors came in FM3.

The only sense I can make of it is sheer laziness or lack of giving priority.

Shift animations in DLC... hahaha, yeah that just might work!
 
Clearly, you once again comment without any actual thought beforehand. Turn10 did release a patch during FM3's era that added shifting animations to the game, thus it's more than possible to add more animation patches through the next DLC/update.

http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/b.../happy-thanksgiving-from-turn-10-studios.aspx
Comin’ at you with a quick studio update before we take off to enjoy the Thanksgiving long weekend. We’ve been moving quickly to get a few things wrapped up this week, and I've been busy working on a new video for our Hot Holidays car pack. Che's hinted at our next installment of Downloadable Content (DLC). Every car is a heavy hitter folks! The Hot Holidays car pack will be available for download on December 8th, but check back soon for the official video and car list.

The rest of us here at Turn 10 have been crunching away on our second title update that will hit an Xbox 360 near you later this evening. Besides what you see below we’ve also patched a few holes to maintain equilibrium in our online economy…something we take very seriously.

This new title update contains:

  • Fixes to all known glitches.
  • The addition of cockpit view driver shift animations.
  • Fixes for all known Time Trial and Leaderboard exploits/bugs.
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Have you even played the game yet, or are you still making comments/questions based off everyone else' posts?
 
Are you talking to me? If you are, I don't think we're on the same page at all.

The discussion's focused on lack of *proper* shift and wheel animation, not omission or absence of certain animations.
 
Speedster911
Are you talking to me? If you are, I don't think we're on the same page at all.

The discussion's focused on lack of *proper* shift and wheel animation, not omission or absence of certain animations.
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And perhaps you forgot to read the entire post.
Turn10 did release a patch during FM3's era that added shifting animations to the game, thus it's more than possible to add more animation patches through the next DLC/update.
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Well McLaren, your one more person who apparently isn't on the same page!

I'm referring to lack of PROPER shift animations.. not patches that add/introduce animations. A simple patch does not solve animation problems. *Adding stuff* via a patch is one thing, altering them requires re-allocating resources and applying fresh coding.

If improving shift and wheel animation were this easy, they could have done so with Horizon and FM4. Furthermore, they would have given this more thought in FM5, but like I said it doesn't seem to be a very high priority for T10.

As a consumer, I simply choose not to use a half-ass cockpit view. The bumper view works much better, which I might add now actually sits at the correct height and on the bumper itself, which wasn't the case with FM2, 3 or 4.

There, hope this clears things up.
 
Speedster911
Well McLaren, your one more person who apparently isn't on the same page!

I'm referring to lack of PROPER shift animations.. not patches that add/introduce animations. A simple patch does not solve animation problems. *Adding stuff* via a patch is one thing, altering them requires re-allocating resources and applying fresh coding.
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So then if you re-allocate resources, and apply fresh coding, then it could be done right? Something a Title Update, very much can do. Kind of just contradicted yourself.
 
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Speedster911
Well McLaren, your one more person who apparently isn't on the same page!

I'm referring to lack of PROPER shift animations.. not patches that add/introduce animations. A simple patch does not solve animation problems. *Adding stuff* via a patch is one thing, altering them requires re-allocating resources and applying fresh coding.

If improving shift and wheel animation were this easy, they could have done so with Horizon and FM4. Furthermore, they would have given this more thought in FM5, but like I said it doesn't seem to be a very high priority for T10.

As a consumer, I simply choose not to use a half-ass cockpit view. The bumper view works much better, which I might add now actually sits at the correct height and on the bumper itself, which wasn't the case with FM2, 3 or 4.

There, hope this clears things up.
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So they can completely add shifting animations by applying "fresh coding" to the interior views of FM3, yet they can't do it again to fix anything? :lol: As ImaRobot said, that is more than possible through an update.

Perhaps you shouldn't attempt to "clear things up" if you don't know what you're on about.
 
That's right. Only you the "expert" guys know what you're talking about. The rest of us out here are complete laymen.

Thanks for your input, I rest my case.
 
Speedster911
That's right. Only you the "expert" guys know what you're talking about. The rest of us out here are complete laymen.

Thanks for your input, I rest my case.
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No one here claimed to be an expert, but you decided to spout off as if I had no idea what I was talking about to "clear things up". Except you cleared nothing up because you were wrong.

If you want to start by posting smart ass replies though, hopefully you'll get to spend time with Kake since you continue to contribute as many useful posts as he did. :rolleyes: I ask again, have you even actually played the game since your posts in the photo thread?
 
This reminds me of when my girlfriend says "you think your always right!" when in fact, its not me thinking I'm right, it's that she is actually wrong.

but enough about me haha
 
ImaRobot
This reminds me of when my girlfriend says "you think your always right!" when in fact, its not me thinking I'm right, it's that she is actually wrong.

but enough about me haha
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By being factually right, you're losing the emotional argument Robot :D
 

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