(for beginners) First corner tracks ranked by risk

[Kano Manel]

I propose a list based in risk of being rammed and done in the first corners (description and details after the list)

LOW RISK
-------------
Willow Spring
Kyoto Driving Park-Yamagiwa
Suzuka?
Northern Island

MEDIUM RISK
--------------------
Dragon Trail
Interlagos (popular vote)
Brands Hatch (popular vote)

HIGH RISK
-----------------
Tsukuba
Le Mans (because the track limits)
Nurburgring GP
Tokyo Expressway
Mount Panorama
STUPIDLY RISKY
----------------------
Monza (because the chicane is a :censored:in mess)


(this is for beginners mostly, I guess)

Hi all, I noticed recently that there are tracks with “open first corner” (let’s call it that for the sake of the thread) and others with “closed first corner” and I thought that perhaps you could help me to make a list.

Why? To earn DR of course. Consider DR as the money you bet in a casino, for instance. Would you risk your hardly earned DR without considering the risks?

Normally when you race in Monza, the first corner is a mess, don’t have to tell you why. But last weekend I raced in Kyoto Driving Park-Yamagiwa and I noticed that the first corner is a wide open huge high-speed left curve where is very very difficult to get rammed (not saying that is impossible, but is very difficult).

That means there are tracks where is worth to qualify and risk DR, and that is the whole point. Because you are less likely to be out in the first corner.

For instance, Brands Hatch is so irregular and dangerous that I would never risk DR in that one, I would just not qualify at all and start last place and win positions. That way you earn DR. (As I said, this is for beginners like me mostly) As The Geologist said this is wrong, apparently "If you don't qualify and still finish outside the top half of the field, then you're more than likely going to lose Dr." (You will probably lose more if you gamble, so simply don't race the high risk ones, don't challenge the odds)

Contributions and analysis welcome.

 

[Crazy Taylor]

LOW RISK
-------------

Kyoto Driving Park-Yamagiwa


MEDIUM RISK
--------------------
Dragon Trail
Le Mans
Blue Moon Infield
Brands Hatch
Suzuka

HIGH RISK
-----------------
Monza
Brands Hatch
Nurburgring GP
Lago Maggiore GP
Blue Moon Speedway

Added a few more IMO.

Not just for beginners, everybody makes mistakes.

 

[2clicks]

What about Interlagos? Does that fall into Medium or High risk?

 

[05XR8]

What about Interlagos? Does that fall into Medium or High risk?

Surprisingly, I feel it it to be low risk. Despite the first sequence of turns, mainly driver error than carnage.

 

[TheGeologist]

If you don't qualify and still finish outside the top half of the field, then you're more than likely going to lose Dr.

But to answer your question

Blue Moon Bay Infield A & B - Low risk (reverse versions are moderate to high risk)

Interlagos - Low risk at Sr S. If you're below Sr S then uber high risk...

Suzuka - Medium risk

 

[yas]

If you don't qualify and still finish outside the top half of the field, then you're more than likely going to lose Dr.

Agreed - I've had cases starting 20th, finishing 12th and still losing points.

Anyway Interlagos I'd say medium - the turn is relatively wide and if there are no divebombers, it can be taken cleanly. If there is no contact with other cars even a mistake is forgiving because of the safe zone. Whereas Nurb GP is often a disaster just because of the angle of the turn - so hard.

 

[Kano Manel]

Added a few more IMO.

Not just for beginners, everybody makes mistakes.

very nice!!! Thanks for sharing.
So, in your opinion the first corner of Brands Hatch is medium risk?

What about Interlagos? Does that fall into Medium or High risk?

In my opinion is high risk, Senna's (Interlagos) is high-speed+wide+semi blind corner that goes downhill (it is semiblind because the stands are just beside you when you start turning and you can't see the corner completly... it is literally a corner). It is downhill and very pronounced just like Paddock Hill (Brands Hatch) But in both cases you have to consider where your breaking point is, don't take into account just the corner itself.

The reason behind the list is to know in which ones you are likely to be rammed out. The breaking point is an important factor here. I think Brands and Interlagos are high risk because of the breaking point. You are likely to get rammed, in Gr3 and above in particular.

I want to hear more opions about this, if you guys consider it medium... well... it's kind of a democratic list.

 

[Crazy Taylor]

very nice!!! Thanks for sharing.
So, in your opinion the first corner of Brands Hatch is medium risk?

In my opinion is high risk, Senna's (Interlagos) is high-speed+wide+semi blind corner that goes downhill (it is semiblind because the stands are just beside you when you start turning and you can't see the corner completly... it is literally a corner). It is downhill and very pronounced just like Paddock Hill (Brands Hatch) But in both cases you have to consider where your breaking point is, don't take into account just the corner itself.

The reason behind the list is to know in which ones you are likely to be rammed out. The breaking point is an important factor here. I think Brands and Interlagos are high risk because of the breaking point. You are likely to get rammed, in Gr3 and above in particular.

I want to hear more opions about this, if you guys consider it medium... well... it's kind of a democratic list.

More to do with the difficulty of the corner (Paddock Hill Bend) where racers have a certain degree on not making the turn.

 

[Kano Manel]

Interlagos I'd say medium - the turn is relatively wide and if there are no divebombers, it can be taken cleanly.

Thanks for contributing, let us assume that there are dive bombers, that's the point. Dive bombers can't ram you in an open wide high-speed corner (unless the have some beef against you and search specifically for it). Divebombing is mostly provoked for a lack of care in the moment of braking.

So the question is, are you likely to get rammed from behind by a dive bomber at Senna's braking point? or will the G forces spit the dive bomber out before this happens? What do you think?

 

[TheGeologist]

Thanks for contributing, let us assume that there are dive bombers, that's the point. Dive bombers can't ram you in an open wide high-speed corner (unless the have some beef against you and search specifically for it). Divebombing is mostly provoked for a lack of care in the moment of braking.

So the question is, are you likely to get rammed from behind by a dive bomber at Senna's braking point? or will the G forces spit the dive bomber out before this happens? What do you think?

As someone who has raced way too many races at Interlagos, I can assure you that it all depends on your Sr for this track more than any other. I rarely get rammed into T1 regardless of where I qualify if I am Sr S. If I am below that, then there is a fair chance that someone will try to be a hero into T1.

 

[Kano Manel]

As someone who has raced way too many races at Interlagos, I can assure you that it all depends on your Sr for this track more than any other. I rarely get rammed into T1 regardless of where I qualify if I am Sr S. If I am below that, then there is a fair chance that someone will try to be a hero into T1.

So, is a low risk in your experience?

 

[GT_Alex74]

The main factor here is speed differential. The risk of being punted punting someone increases the more you need to slow down.Yamagiwa presents a low risk because you barely touch the brakes to enter first corner, quite simply. Plus, the corner is a smooth rounded shape, so you can easily follow its contours in a car, making it easier to drive through side by side.

On Monza, you start with a long straight, so high speeds plus people benefiting from slipstream, so you end up with significant speed differences between drivers and different braking points. Then the chicane layout is everything you don't want for throwing a bunch of cars coming 3 or 4 wide at different speeds : first corner is an abrupt angle, and you can't follow the contour with a car without being nearly stopped. If the game allowed abit more cutting there on lap 1, that would be a bit less of a problem but since the penalties are very sensitive on that track, it effectively limits you a lot. It's not impossible to go 2 wide there, but that requires some skill and a lot of confidence, as well as sportsmanship. But you just can't fit more than that in there, and the issue is the long braking zone makes the place really crowded.
So basically, you have some guys in front trying to attack / defend, ending up clogging the racing line being slower than usual, which forces the guys behind to slow down more, while the guys even further are coming at higher speeds because of slipstream and don't see what's going on upfront because people are 4 wide before them, trying to avoid each other already. This means starting from the back there requires to be extra careful, which is obviously something a lot of people aren't ready to do in Sports mode.

Nurburgring T1 is also an angle, so it's risky as well, but it allows more fast options through it because of its width and safe areas around it, so people are more willing to try the outside and keep it more on the right.

Brands Hatch T1 is a rounded shape corner, but the terrain and the fact it's sharper at entry makes it really difficult to avoid going wide at exit.

Le Mans, people consider the DUnlop chicane as T1 for the start, but the right corner taken flat out can shift weight enough to prevent you from changing your line in the braking zone.

TL;DR : fast corners with a smooth round shape are good, abrupt angles are bad, hard braking zones are even worse. Bonus punting points for chicanes. Flat out kinks can limit options for the following slow corner if taken too fast.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

Low

Nordschliefe

Willow Springs

Yamigawa Miyabi

Broad Bean

Northern Isle


Medium

Brands Hatch

Mount Panorama

Tsukuba

Blue Moon Infield

Dragon Trail

Tokyo Expressway (Outer)


High

Interlagos

Monza

Nurburgring GP

Suzuka

Blue Moon Speedway

Tokyo Expressway (Inner)

 

[Kano Manel]

Ok, I'll update the list with Interlagos at medium and Brands at medium (although I wouldn't risk my DR in any of these 2 unless is a FIA A lobby )

Now,

High

Suzuka

Suzuka first corner is a special case, here I found a map of the track

Suzuka Map With Angle Degrees

• Kano Manel
• Jun 14, 2018

suzuka track with degree in corners

it is a 260 degrees corner, is very wide and, if you take it in the interior line, it expels all the inexperienced drivers out. I've never been rammed here, there is a lot of space. After that comes the S and Gyaku, for the moment you arrive to a corner where you can really get rammed out, most of the bad drivers are far away.

I'd say that Suzuka is an easy one. More opinions about this one?


I'd like to create a sort of "rammability test", an arcade race against elite AI (famous for it's delicacy). AI elite in Gr.2 and the player starting first with a stock gr4. sure they are going to kick you out in Monza or Nurburgring GP

 

[mclarenLB]

I soon plan to go from E to A+ in one day on a new account, and I basically want either Suzuka, Brands or Kyoto Y to do it on, I'd take Blue Moon Infield A too but that seems to pop up more rarely. Absolutely no chance I'm doing it with a deathtrap Turn 1

 

[Slapped]

Ok, I'll update the list with Interlagos at medium and Brands at medium (although I wouldn't risk my DR in any of these 2 unless is a FIA A lobby )

Now,


Suzuka first corner is a special case, here I found a map of the track

Suzuka Map With Angle Degrees

• Kano Manel
• Jun 14, 2018

suzuka track with degree in corners

it is a 260 degrees corner, is very wide and, if you take it in the interior line, it expels all the inexperienced drivers out. I've never been rammed here, there is a lot of space. After that comes the S and Gyaku, for the moment you arrive to a corner where you can really get rammed out, most of the bad drivers are far away.

I'd say that Suzuka is an easy one. More opinions about this one?


I'd like to create a sort of "rammability test", an arcade race against elite AI (famous for it's delicacy). AI elite in Gr.2 and the player starting first with a stock gr4. sure they are going to kick you out in Monza or Nurburgring GP

Suzuka first corner is not 260 degrees. Without pulling my protractor out I would guess the corner is around 70 degrees.

Anyway I'm guessing you got the figure from the map which doesn't actually give you the corner angles.

The key is in German so I'll give you a quick translation

Gang = Gear, Geschwindigkeit = Speed, Querbeschleunigung = Lateral Acceleration

Schlüsselstellen = basically key parts of the track in this context - Where you're most likely to lose or gain time.

Auslaufzonen = Run out areas, Kies = Gravel, Beton = Concrete

 

[2clicks]

MEDIUM RISK
--------------------
Dragon Trail
Le Mans
Blue Moon Infield
Brands Hatch
Suzuka

HIGH RISK
-----------------
Monza
Brands Hatch
Nurburgring GP
Lago Maggiore GP
Blue Moon Speedway

Added a few more IMO.

Not just for beginners, everybody makes mistakes.

In my opinion, I'd swap these two. The short distance to the hairpin after Turn 1 at Maggiore is enough to stop the bottleneck, as anyone who is going to divebomb here will find themselves hard done by the hairpin. It makes the turn safer, in a way. The incredibly tight track limits at Le Mans make this one of the riskiest first turns in the whole game.

 

[Kano Manel]

Suzuka first corner is not 260 degrees. Without pulling my protractor out I would guess the corner is around 70 degrees.

Anyway I'm guessing you got the figure from the map which doesn't actually give you the corner angles.

The key is in German so I'll give you a quick translation

Gang = Gear, Geschwindigkeit = Speed, Querbeschleunigung = Lateral Acceleration

Schlüsselstellen = basically key parts of the track in this context - Where you're most likely to lose or gain time.

Auslaufzonen = Run out areas, Kies = Gravel, Beton = Concrete

LOL, failllll. I first thought it was speed and gear, but then I thought it was actual degrees (counting the degrees in reverse, somehow)?

And that first corner feels like 90 degrees but a bit more open than that, so you are probably right and the corner is about 70 degrees (the first axis).

Still, I consider it an easy one. What do you think?

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

Suzuka first corner is a special case...

it is a 260 degrees corner, is very wide and, if you take it in the interior line, it expels all the inexperienced drivers out. I've never been rammed here, there is a lot of space. After that comes the S and Gyaku, for the moment you arrive to a corner where you can really get rammed out, most of the bad drivers are far away.

I'd say that Suzuka is an easy one. More opinions about this one?

Thanks for the incite, it should be helpful.

In regards to the list though, I thought you wanted this ranking made for beginners?

 

[Kano Manel]

In regards to the list though, I thought you wanted this ranking made for beginners?

yes, for beginners, seasoned drivers are in better lobbies, I want to think that you don't need this stuff in an A+ rank lobby (I'm guessing).

 

[sturk0167]

Tokyo Expressway Outer Loop: Very High Risk. Long straight before first turn, with cars drafting creates a big bunch at turn 1.

 

[Sander 001]

I find Monza several steps above anything else. It’s total chaos!

 

[Racin-Rev]

Low risk -- Kyoto: Yamagiwa Regular, Yamagiwa+Miyabi
When you start near the back (as I usually do) it is a great place to increase your DR -- first turn can be swept and after that others just crash on the rest of the course. Drive smooth and improve 3-4 positions most of the time. I have improved as many as 8, and I am not that good.

Avoid Tokyo at all costs.

 

[CaptainAlan8]

I’d say Interlagos can be quite tricky.

You need to cut pretty much all of the inside curb so you need to brake much earlier than you would think (if you were planning to keep on the tarmac).

So this kind of invites people to go down the inside as they think you braked early. You’ll probably still both make the corner but you’ll both run much wider than you’d want and have to squeeze/bounce over the bottom part of the esses.

 

[Kano Manel]

I feel like the guy in room 101

I'm going to move Nordschliefe to high risk, because when you start a race in there, the first turn is a left corner where you can get absolutely hammered, the whole first sector actually.

 

[Kano Manel]

I’d say Interlagos can be quite tricky.

You need to cut pretty much all of the inside curb so you need to brake much earlier than you would think (if you were planning to keep on the tarmac).

So this kind of invites people to go down the inside as they think you braked early. You’ll probably still both make the corner but you’ll both run much wider than you’d want and have to squeeze/bounce over the bottom part of the esses.

I totally agree with you. It's a draw in votes at the moment. I think Interlagos is a dangerous one.

 

[yas]

Thanks for contributing, let us assume that there are dive bombers, that's the point. Dive bombers can't ram you in an open wide high-speed corner (unless the have some beef against you and search specifically for it). Divebombing is mostly provoked for a lack of care in the moment of braking.

So the question is, are you likely to get rammed from behind by a dive bomber at Senna's braking point? or will the G forces spit the dive bomber out before this happens? What do you think?

Sorry to come back late. Well as I said, it's a wide corner, that is not too sharp so you can keep track of your opponents more easily. If you keep an eye on your mirrors you can make a proper defense and as long as he's not trying to ram you on purpose, if you take a fair position on the track, you can avoid being rammed. But yeah - as The Geologist said, it depends on the SR rating of the group I guess.

Now that is my opinion on the first corner. As a whole the track has enough sharp turns to make a mess. But if it's an overall track danger, I'd put Mount Panorama as a far more SR deadly track

 

[Pedinhuh]

I think Tokyo Expressway Easter Outer Loop deserves a mention here, no run-off areas and it's quite easy to get a penalty by crashing in the walls.

 

[Kano Manel]

I think Tokyo Expressway Easter Outer Loop deserves a mention here, no run-off areas and it's quite easy to get a penalty by crashing in the walls.

You are absolutely right, not the first to mention this.

List updated, high risk for Tokyo express.

 

[Kano Manel]

List has been updated, I'll try to keep an eye on contributions, I'll be out for a week driving around Wales (that sure is high risk, isn't it?) Cheers!