Ford GT: Make a hard turn and die?

[speedyK]

A slight correction on this, the VX220 and Elise do not share an identical chassis, while the VX220 chassis was built by Lotus and was based on the Elise chassis it is different.

Yes, OK - the VX220 needed a slightly longer chassis – mainly for the different rear subframe to accommodate the GM Ecotec engine. I am fully aware of that, but considered it to such a case of splitting hairs that it was not worth mentioning in a post of this nature.

However, my Exige does have the identical chassis to the Elise (which I have also driven) – and I can assure you that the Exige is very similar to the VX220 in its handling characteristics – the main difference being the higher levels of grip due mainly to wider (at the front only – before you jump on that ), stickier rubber and the aerodynamic kit giving more downforce.

In GT4, the VX and the Elise had reasonable handling and grip in Pro mode. In GT5 Prologue they just do not!

 

[Scaff]

But at least I found a way to corner the GT (talking about professional physics) in GT5P: what you have to do when closing in on a corner is to start breaking slowly and at the same time keep your right foot on the gas pedal. This way you are somehow offsetting the massive oversteer with a slight understeer and as result get more balanced cornering. It worked for me especially on the Highspeed Ring in A-Class.
Of course this only works using a wheel, no Joypads.

You can do this with a controller you just need to assign the throttle and brake to the R2 and L2.

👍

In GT4, the VX and the Elise had reasonable handling and grip in Pro mode. In GT5 Prologue they just do not!

GT4 didn't have a pro mode?

However did you not find that the VX220 and Elise in GT4 were far more difficult to rotate that they actually are and that they were overly dominated by understeer.

Please note I am not disputing that you have driven these cars hard, rather asking if you have ever deliberately unsettled the car. Vehicle testing at proving grounds was part of my old job, for this we would deliberately exceed the limits of a car, in the same environment of a proving ground. I still believe that some of the complains regarding mid-engined cars are partly down to people driving them in a manner no one would in reality.


Regards

Scaff

 

[speedyK]

GT4 did have a pro mode (not sure what it was called) – but it was hidden – you had to unlock it. Can't remember exactly how, as it was so long ago. Had to press L2 and R2 together when choosing "advanced" or something like that...

In GT4, because you didn't have a clutch that you could drop at 6,000 rpm, you couldn't light up the rear tyres and slide the car sideways, etc. OTOH, I did many a virtual lap of the Nürburgring in the VX (the owners club had a competition) and the characteristics (balance and catching the tail when it steps out) were pretty realistic. Though I drove it in a way that I would never risk really driving at the 'Ring!

Re. deliberately unsettling the car: I took the Speedster to the huge testing ground, Boxberg, in Germany where we did all manner of such things for two days.

Furthermore, since 2001, every year I have done the Swiss Auto Racing Club's "Higher School of Driving" at Hockenheim which involves deliberately pushing the car past its limits, so I do know how both the Speedster/VX and Exige really react when you overstep the mark.

The thing about mid-engined cars is that, because of the immediate reaction to driver input they are so rewarding - you feel really at one with the car. You have to be very quick to react when they let go – but you can catch them – certainly far more easily in real life than in GT5 prologue pro mode! I know the "seat of your pants" aspect is missing in a sim, but this alone does not adequately explain the serious lack of grip in the game.

 

[roflator]

but this alone does not adequately explain the serious lack of grip in the game.

Just change the tires if you want more grip?

 

[SjefGielen]

Someone was talking about it being strange that the elise is being outrun by say evo's.
I don't think it's just the car behavior that's off in this game, don't get me wrong I love the game, just some minor problems with it. I think there's a problem in the point system, I think the purpose of maximum allowed points for a race should be to level the field, now the strange thing is that an Elise tuned to have maximum 650 points allways outruns the F430 tuned to 650 points on every track. In my opinion these cars should not be able to enter the same races if their performance differs that much, I don't think it's just driver skills now, but also car choise.

 

[Scaff]

GT4 did have a pro mode (not sure what it was called) – but it was hidden – you had to unlock it. Can't remember exactly how, as it was so long ago. Had to press L2 and R2 together when choosing "advanced" or something like that...

Sorry but that is not correct, you are thinking about GT4 (or it could have been Concept), which opened up a new series of races once you had completed the Standard and Advanced races (you are spot on about the method).

GT4 did not have a different physics engine that was opened by any method, the closest you could get was by fitting N spec tyres and switching off the driving aids (and ABS could never be switched off).

In GT4, because you didn't have a clutch that you could drop at 6,000 rpm, you couldn't light up the rear tyres and slide the car sideways, etc. OTOH, I did many a virtual lap of the Nürburgring in the VX (the owners club had a competition) and the characteristics (balance and catching the tail when it steps out) were pretty realistic. Though I drove it in a way that I would never risk really driving at the 'Ring!

I can't agree that all the areas of GT4 were pretty realistic, yes the cars would step of from rotation caused by load transfer, but it certainly wasn't perfect. However power-on oversteer was almost impossible to do, lift-off oversteer was similarly absent and the low speed physics were just plain wrong. Try and get a car to do a handbrake turn or do-nuts in GT4, trust me you will not have much luck at all.

GT4 was fun and a step forward from the previous games, but it was just plain wrong in a lot of areas.

Re. deliberately unsettling the car: I took the Speedster to the huge testing ground, Boxberg, in Germany where we did all manner of such things for two days.

Furthermore, since 2001, every year I have done the Swiss Auto Racing Club's "Higher School of Driving" at Hockenheim which involves deliberately pushing the car past its limits, so I do know how both the Speedster/VX and Exige really react when you overstep the mark.

The thing about mid-engined cars is that, because of the immediate reaction to driver input they are so rewarding - you feel really at one with the car. You have to be very quick to react when they let go – but you can catch them – certainly far more easily in real life than in GT5 prologue pro mode! I know the "seat of your pants" aspect is missing in a sim, but this alone does not adequately explain the serious lack of grip in the game.

Which are you actually talking about the grip levels or how a car reacts when the grip levels are exceeded?

If its simply grip levels then that can be changed simply by running better tyres (I know it not possible in all races), if however its the cars reactions then that is not a grip issue. Personally I don't have a major problem with how the cars react, and I do believe that a lot of this is down to the lack of feel you get in a sim.

Once you get past the lack of feel in GT5 its more than possible to catch the cars, but I honestly think this is an area we will have to agree to disagree on.


Scaff

 

[Hun200kmh]

It has been said before, but I think that the complaints here come from the fact that in-game we drive without a REAL feel of what's going on. So ...

a) we drive much faster than our skill would let us in IRL (unless you are a top professional race driver in all categories, i.e. rally driver, F1 driver, Le Mans driver; touring car driver; GT driver, etc)

b) we do much more mistakes (and this one applies also to professional race drivers. They too would make much more mistakes driving in a console than driving in their race car);



It's a game, and if it could simulate acurately the feeling of a race car, I could never have outpaced Derek Bell's "in car 956"'s Nurburgring lap using GT4 and one of the LMP's available in it. But I did!

PS - I really think I'm going to like GT5 👍

 

[Mad Matt]

In my experience I think we tend to drive faster in GT than we realise because we can't feel the car in the way we do in real life.

I've also noticed it's harder (or I find it harder) to give gentle steering inputs with the controller, compared to a wheel.

I found the Elise in GTR2 very oversteery and hard to control, it'll be interesting to get my hands on the one in GT5P.

PS. If you think they've got the Elise wrong in GT5P they gave the Barchetta in GT4 the wrong gear ratios and wrong rev limit!