Ford GT vs Ferrari F430

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Did PD show favoritism to Ferrari?

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Earth

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GTP_Royalton
Before GT5P even came out I was very interested in seeing how the F430 would fair against the Ford GT. They are direct rivals and many car magazines have compared thier performances head to head, with the results usually being very close.

However, in GT5P Polyphony Digital has gave the Ferrari F430 an unfair pp advantage over the Ford GT.


Here is a comparision of the cars with S3 tires and their pp at 100% (actual weight/HP)

Ferrari F430 / Ford GT
Power: 496 / 550
Weight: 1450 / 1451 - incorrect Ford GT Weight by PD, real weight is 1521, see EDIT
Aero: 15/20 / 0/20
pp: 634 / 674 ?????

So you may say well, the Ford GT has 54 more hosepower, that's why it has 40 more pp.

If you even out out the horsepower by raising the F430 to 548 HP then the F430 gets 650 pp, still 24 less then the 674 they gave the Ford GT for equal HP and weight. Not to mention the F430 has front aero as well. To equal the cars out with the same HP and weight the F430 must get S3 tires and the Ford GT only S1 tires. Not fair at all, and still the F430 has front aero!

So was PD so eager to please Ferrari that they gave the car a massive unfair advantage over it's rival, the Ford GT?

I was going to start a one night F430 vs Ford GT event in the Race events forum but with this much bias to Ferrari, I dont think its possible for a fair race.

EDIT: Turns out the Ford GT really weights 1521 KGs, so I added weight to 1523 for the Ford GT, and still 668 pp, only a 6pp from 1451 difference and still a massive advantage for the Ferrari F430
 
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Weird indeed, hmmm. I seriously wonder if Ferrari is that pethetic to expect sth. like this from PD-if so, then many many thumbs down -.-.
Another solution is of course a not finished/"broken" pp-system, for which I voted btw.
 
Interesting find...I really hope that they dont show bias like this in the PP system in GT5 and just make the specs as close to RL as possible...
 
daan
So which is faster?
Click to expand...

Well you caught me here. I haven't actually test drove the cars.

If you put both cars at 550hp, and 1450 weight, and give the F430 S3 tires while the Ford GT just S1 tires (which is required to even out the pp) I can't imagine the Ford GT coming anywhere close to the F430. (Dont forget the F430 has +15 front downforce and the Ford GT doesnt, I imagine thats worth probably half a dozen pp)

After looking into this more I think the torque of the Ford GT is skewing the pp system

The Ford GT has 500ftlbs of torque

The Ferrari F430 has 350ftlbs of torque

Is 150ftlbs of torque worth 18 pp? I dont think so. But its probably one of the reasons why the Ford GT is at a disadvantage in the pp department.

But looking deeper into this I found even more information.

Ford GT vs Ferrari F430 REAL LIFE Lap Times

Top Gear Track - 1:22.9 1:21.9
Nordschleife - 7:55 7:52
Hockenheim Short 1:12.7 1:14.1
Vairano Handling Course 1:17.373 1:19.810
Oschersleben 1:41.89 1:42.84
Zolder 1:45.25 1:43.68
SportAuto wet handling test 1:38.2 1:31.8
Rockingham 1:41.5 (wet) 1:33.6 (wet)

As you can see its a toss up in real life. 18 pp is alot in GT5P, 1 pp can be a couple/few tenths.
 
Problem isn't PP. Problem is GT5P's simulation of the cars. The GT is fast for no reason, at least by my testing. Untuned, it beats the 430. Tuned, it handles high power better. The PP is probably correct, but the GT is faster than it is in reality.
 
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Exorcet
The GT is faster than it is in reality.
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So you actually own one? How long have you had her? You must be really well off to have so much experience with these cars in reality because i know you wouldn't pull a statement like that from thin air, am I correct?
👍
 
Duphman
So you actually own one? How long have you had her? You must be really well off to have so much experience with these cars in reality because i know you wouldn't pull a statement like that from thin air, am I correct?
👍
Click to expand...

Awesome post:lol:
 
I'm off for some testing!

edit:
S2 tires, TCS on 1, Auto Transmission, Stock settings. Test on the Fuji Straight.

Ford GT (average of 3 runs)
0-60mph: 3.5sec
0-100mph: 7.1sec
0-150mph: 15.4sec

F430 (average of 3 runs)
0-60mph: 4.2sec
0-100mph: 8.8sec
0-150mph: 19sec

officially, car and driver says:
Ford GT 0-150mph is 19.1 sec
Ferrari F430 0-150mph is 21.4 sec
 
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Alex p.
Weird indeed, hmmm. I seriously wonder if Ferrari is that pethetic to expect sth. like this from PD-if so, then many many thumbs down -.-.
Another solution is of course a not finished/"broken" pp-system, for which I voted btw.
Click to expand...

well they do it to the FIA, why not PD?

b
 
Duphman
So you actually own one? How long have you had her? You must be really well off to have so much experience with these cars in reality because i know you wouldn't pull a statement like that from thin air, am I correct?
👍
Click to expand...

Where was ownership implied? Why would I even need to know what a Ford GT looked like to know that it drives faster in game relative to other cars than it does in reality according to tests? Why would I have to own a Ford GT to make such a statement? Why would my ownership of a Ford GT make me an expert driver with more credibility? Why would owning a Ford GT mean that I tracked it often and new the limits of it's handling first hand?

But more importantly, what is the point of your post?

Unless you are questioning my lack of a source or my reasoning behind stating that the Ford is faster in game, you've wasted time and wasted the effort of the server running this site. No offense intended.
 
Ford GT (average of 3 runs)
0-60mph: 3.5sec
0-100mph: 7.1sec
0-150mph: 15.4sec
Click to expand...

Wikipedia says
0-60mph: 3.7sec
0-100mph: 7.4sec

F430 (average of 3 runs)
0-60mph: 4.2sec
0-100mph: 8.8sec
0-150mph: 19sec
Click to expand...

Quick Search on internet says

0-60mph: 3.5-4sec
0-100mph: 10 secs

Thanks for the testing Bonzo, I'll join you when I have time. The GT can smoke the F430 in a straight line, but the F430 makes up time in the corners with better brakes and lighter weight.

The real specs for these cars, and what we should test them at are

Ford GT
550hp - 1521kgs

Ferrari F430
496hp - 1450kgs

I'll run the cars at the above specs tonight wtih S2 tires on each. I'll give them a go around as many tracks as I can with as many performance tests as I can. With stock settings outside of fixing the Ford GT's weight.
 
Exorcet
Problem isn't PP. Problem is GT5P's simulation of the cars. The GT is fast for no reason, at least by my testing. Untuned, it beats the 430. Tuned, it handles high power better. The PP is probably correct, but the GT is faster than it is in reality.
Click to expand...

Maybe because... it's lighter than it is in "real life"?

Though with manufacturers quoting different curb weights - as standard curb weight quotations rarely agree with real life, as some manufacturers quote curb weights with driver and fluids, others quote dry weight - it's almost impossible to tell unless you have the car up on the scales. PD only works with the data supplied to it.

Viewing the lap leaderboards, the Ford GT only pips the F430 by 1-2 seconds per track... which is about right given the PP difference.

In any case, I have not seen the the Ford GT to be handicapped in the 650PP races... and it's one of the better cars for Daytona.
 
I took the F430 and Ford GT out

Ferrari F430
496 HP / 1450kgs
default suspension/S2 tires

Ford GT
550 HP / 1521kgs
default suspension/S2 tires

Took both for two quick laps at Suzuka

The Ferrari was so much easier to handle. The Ford GT was sloppy. I dont remember any car magazine saying it handled bad.

Top speed was in the Ford's favor, but I'm guessing it was only by about 5mph.

In the end I did just 2 laps with both cars due to time contraints

2'14.7 - Ford GT
2'15.2 - Ferrari F430

I was shocked considering how badly the Ford GT handled

More detailed tests later
 
Very intresting. A couple of days ago I tested few of those premium supercars at Fuji GT (stock with S1s). Ford GT and the GT-R were close matched (a couple of tenths for Ford GT) but F430 was clearly left behind. But ofcourse the Fuji GT´s layout doesn't "support" the prancing horse as Suzuka does. I will throw few test laps too, with those closer to IRL tweaks: I can´t wait to see how sloppy the Ford is at Suzuka.

👍👍👍

-fbk-
 
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I don't want to get involved in the discussion. Still on GT4. But have loved and learned a lot of info. Will keep reading.

Thanks guys
 
I will just say that Kazunori Yamauchi actually owns a Ford GT, it is one of his favorite cars of all times, it is the main car f GT4 game and I really do not see any point in "biasism" towards Ferrari.

However, there is one MINOR issue that hasn't been taken into concern while "testing".

Tires.

As "Tire manual" for GT5:P clearly puts, F430 should be equipped with N3 tires at start for actual "street" presence (upgrading to S1 after heatup). For the notice, RL stock tires of F430 are Pirelli Corsa.

Although Ford GT tires aren't specified, quick look into intranetz shows that GT's stock tyres are in S1 category probably and not Nx since its stock tire is Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar.

So, any "testing" should be done with that respectful fact in concern I presume.
 
amar212
I will just say that Kazunori Yamauchi actually owns a Ford GT, it is one of his favorite cars of all times, it is the main car f GT4 game and I really do not see any point in "biasism" towards Ferrari.

However, there is one MINOR issue that hasn't been taken into concern while "testing".

Tires.

As "Tire manual" for GT5:P clearly puts, F430 should be equipped with N3 tires at start for actual "street" presence (upgrading to S1 after heatup). For the notice, RL stock tires of F430 are Pirelli Corsa.

Although Ford GT tires aren't specified, quick look into intranetz shows that GT's stock tyres are in S1 category probably and not Nx since its stock tire is Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar.

So, any "testing" should be done with that respectful fact in concern I presume.
Click to expand...

Let me be first to say that PD's tyre guide isn't even close to right.
 
Very interesting read guys, great topic and should be around for a long time.

I will not vote, as i don't believe that a topic of this calibur, can truely be confirmed or disproved, until ALL cars have been tested in their true state.

Keep the info coming. If I get time I may do some testing myself.
 
@Paulie: still begs the question: How does the S2 tire compare to the stock tires on both the Ford GT and the Ferrari? It's not entirely right, and since PD are stating that the "stock" S2 that's standard for races and time trials aren't comparable to standard tires on each vehicle (and that each vehicle's standard tire can be anywhere from N2-S1, depending on the vehicle itself), trying to draw conclusions from testing on in-game tires and complaining about how they compare to real-life is fraught with so many guesstimated assumptions that the data might as well be random.

Also, @Earth:

2'14.7 - Ford GT
2'15.2 - Ferrari F430
Click to expand...

Two laps is nowhere near enough to get a proper time in either of these cars. What conditions? What physics mode? Standard? Simulation?

If you want a good test... you have to do at least ten laps each car, and drive them back to back. What mode are you driving in? Time Trial only allows stock cars, and the 650PP race practice will not allow the Ford GT in your current tune.

All the times show is that if you bring the Ford's weight to "normal", they get closer. In real life, data on which car is faster is conflicting. On some tracks, the F430 nudges the GT, on most others, the GT's extra stability and power make it faster (in wet tests, it's not even close).

The GT feels clumsier, rolls onto its springs more... but it's got a bigger cushion of understeer, better traction and a little more stability. Both are brilliant lapping cars, but the F430 is harder to extract times from.

And, obviously, a high-revving small displacement 4.3 liter V8, despite having less weight to carry around, is no match for a bigger, torquier 5.4 liter V8 with a supercharger. Despite having "just" 50 hp more, the broader torque curve of the Ford GT is much more useful than the high-strung powerband of the F430.

-

Just for reference, from the online leaderboard for Suzuka:
http://www.gran-turismo.com/jp/gt5p/ranking/co5ca27s1m0.html

Ford GT
Highest overall:
2:08.270 -gt5_stik

Same driver comparison times (both drivers in top-ten):
2'08.356 - Trick_R
2'08.496 - z06 fun

Ferrari F430
Highest overall:
2'10.295 -GTP_DHolland (+ 2.03s)

Same driver comparison times (both drivers in top-ten):
2'10.364 - Trick_R (+ 2.01s)
2'10.680 - z06 fun (+ 2.18s)

-

I'm betting that difference might reverse given an extra weight handicap for the Ford GT.

Seriously, though, give it at least a dozen laps in each car before rendering a verdict.
 
I did some quk stints on various tracks with the GT and F430 a little while back, the results are below:

High Speed Ring

Ford GT 1'11.119

Ferrari F430 1'12.743


Fuji F

Ford GT 1'46.606

Ferrari F430 1'50.100


Tests were done with stock tune and S2 tyres
 
Ford GT is much faster on straights, but on F430, tackling corners faster is easier. (IMHO)
 
In all the tests I have done the Ford GT is faster than the F430 stock for stock as the last few posts have shown.

As Amar stated KY does have two Ford GT's himself and he loves them, I don't think he would favour Ferrari's in the game or any car intentionally, there are some weight and PP errors though.
 
Remember, the Ford GT should be tested at 1521 (in game 1523) kgs as that is it's actual weight.

The ingame weight of 1451 (100%) is incorrect.

70kgs is probably worth more then a second
 
Ok someone said the Ford GT is not that fast... WRONG! I have had the privilege to ride shotgun in one and it is anything but "not fast". In fact it is freakin scary as hell fast. The car in the game is rightfully fast as a result. I have not been in an F430 (probably never will) but I know from various magazines and reviews that the GT is faster. In fact when Ford built the GT they used the F430 as a bench mark. The car may be weighty but that should not be confused with lumbering or cumbersome. It is very responsive and agile especially for such a large car. Sure its not a Lotus Exige but hell what do you want? The Eagle F1 super car tires it uses are specially made for the GT and have immense levels of grip... then again the car has immense levels of power to break that grip. Hell listen to what Clarkson had to say about it on Top Gear. That guy would does not just buy any car. KY owns the one as well, so if there is any car that is represented accurately in GT5p, it would be the Ford GT.

From what I can tell, from my experiences the GT in GT5p is a 90% recreation of the real thing (obviously there are no G forces etc). If GT5p conveyed the sense of speed better I think it would seem more realistic.

Though I do agree that the PP difference between the two cars is too great.
 
I think the problem is you guys cant grasp a Ford is Faster than a Ferrari. Ford built the original GT40 to beat the Ferrari's in racing, and they did just that... 40 years ago. And 70kg is the difference of a Fat guy driving and a skinny guy driving, 600hp cant tell the difference, and to say a Ferrari or a GT comes with N2 tires is absurd! S2 or maybe S3 tires is more like it. We are talking about the baddest cars in the world, not Escort's or Sentra's.
 
niky
@Paulie: still begs the question: How does the S2 tire compare to the stock tires on both the Ford GT and the Ferrari? It's not entirely right, and since PD are stating that the "stock" S2 that's standard for races and time trials aren't comparable to standard tires on each vehicle (and that each vehicle's standard tire can be anywhere from N2-S1, depending on the vehicle itself), trying to draw conclusions from testing on in-game tires and complaining about how they compare to real-life is fraught with so many guesstimated assumptions that the data might as well be random.
Click to expand...

Yeah, which is why I just standardise supercars to S1, sports cars/normal cars to N3 and Kei Cars to N2 for my tests. I figure they've programmed the tyre grip difference into the actual car anyway.
 
Paulie
I figure they've programmed the tyre grip difference into the actual car anyway.
Click to expand...

Yeah thats why I pick a 'control' tyre (I did the same for GT4), though I don't switch between N3's and S1's because since August 1st the gap between N's and S's have gotten too large IMO.
 

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