Ford Ka: Thoughts?

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Right, my sister has come into a bit of money (as have I, as it happens), and she's decided that she's going to go ahead and buy something she's always wanted... which turns out to be a Micra C+C, apparently. Anyway, she's essentially offered me her Ka for whatever Nissan will offer her for it (I'll know by saturday).


Basically, I'm looking for a few opinions on this as a first car. I mean it's not one of the cars I'd been considering (I'd been picturing a nice mundane Focus diesel, to be honest) but it's one that sort of makes sense.



Pros:

  • It'll probably be cheap - Glass's tells me a trade-in for a 2003 Ka Collection with 50k is around £2000
  • Uncomplicated=reliable
  • It's a 53 plate, which means it's got the newer duratec engine
  • I know it hasn't been messed about with
  • It's cheap to insure
  • Fairly cheap to run
  • I like Kas. I like the interior, I like the exterior, I like.
  • It's the only car in our family that it's not painfully expensive to insure me on with a provisional (my other choices are a 2008 C4 1.6, a 2008 Astra 1.7 and soon to be a 2008 Micra C+C, I suppose)
  • It's not a frigging Corsa!
Cons:

  • Compared to a Focus, it's a little basic. But then Focuses cost more, so...
  • Two of my possible unis (the top two) are Leeds and Huddersfield. That eliminates the air con issue, but a 5 hour journey in a go-kart is not an idea I relish the thought of.
  • Ideally I'd like something a little bigger. I loved the Ka when I was 13 because it was the only car I could see over the dashboard of. I'm considerably taller than I was when I was 13, and it's now a bit of a squeeze.
  • This is the car I'm probably going to crash. I value my legs, and this was the car that received the award for 'Worst Brakes' in Auto Express's reader survey not all that long ago. Hmm...


I'm interested. Opinions, please.

(And obviously I'd stick some minilites on it ASAP)
 
Go for it. The Focus would obviousley be a much bigger car and the back seats of a Ka are a squeeze for just about everyone. They are fun to chuck about though so says one of my mates who's driven a few different small cars.

The brakes are a null issue, as you shouldn't really be pushing them to the limit any time soon. I have only twice used mine hard, once because I wasn't being observant enough, the other cause I hadn't driven it for 2 weeks and they sounded abit creaky.
 
It can't be worse than the non-antilock disc/drum setup on my Nova. And I've heard they're fairly good handling cars...that 5-hour ride doesn't sound like fun in that car, though.
 
Go for it. The Focus would obviousley be a much bigger car and the back seats of a Ka are a squeeze for just about everyone. They are fun to chuck about though so says one of my mates who's driven a few different small cars.

Yeah, I mean I always assumed I'd go for something like a Focus or even, dare I say it, an Astra, because I thought the extra room would be handy for extra person carrying. At the end of the day I'm probably not going to be doing a great deal of that anyway, and even if I am I can borrow my mum's car (which isn't that bad to insure, admittedly).

And thinking about it, if I find I hate long journeys in it that much I'll just sell it before september.

The brakes are a null issue, as you shouldn't really be pushing them to the limit any time soon. I have only twice used mine hard, once because I wasn't being observant enough, the other cause I hadn't driven it for 2 weeks and they sounded abit creaky.

True, true. It'll probably be quite refreshing to be in a car where they don't behave like an on-off switch, actually...

The brakes problem can always be fixed with larger rims and larger brake rotors with pads to match.

Exactly. I'm not sure on what mileage she's done, but if they're coming up for replacement anyway I could always plump for a better set. Actually, I wonder if it has ABS... Hmm...

EDIT

WHEW, it does.
 
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Honestly, I think you're opening yourself up for alot of issues if you do up the brakes. First, insurance, secondly maintenace and thirdly the ABS it no doubt has.

I was going to get a mondeo because I do alot of team sports and generally have a solid group of mates. But then the Almera landed on my lap and I haven't looked back. Face it, you're 17, half the fun is watching your mates squeeze into the back while you sit in the front in abit more comfort (just stick to the policy of not moving your seat forward to help those behind ;) ).
 
Do it.

Don't worry about crashing it - that's crazy talk. Don't worry about traveling long distances in it either, your wallet will love it. I have some friends who often come up to Yorkshire to visit from Reading. They are just as likely to take her Ka as they are to take his MkV GTi, and that's with a 12 year old son and all their luggage in the back. They arrive just as fresh in the Ka as they do the Golf (if not quite as quickly). Ka's are great 👍
 
My wife has a Ka (1.3 on a V plate - Ford Kent engine FTW) and its a stunning car.

Stupidly reliable, cheaper to run, easy to work on and loved by the trade (so trade-in and sale in the future will not be a problem).

I'm 6 foot tall and have driven numerous Ka's over long distances and they are not as bad as people claim, and being honest 5 hours in most non-luxury cars is going to be tiring.

The braking set-up on the Ka is fine, yes it does have drums at the back, but that's fairly normal on cars in this class. In regards to accidents, for its age the Ka holds up well, a transit van drove into the back of my wife (white van man on the phone - what a moron) and the damage was more than repairable (and Michelle was fine - the van driver wasn't after the abuse she gave him).

On top of that the Ka is a stunning little car to drive, very responsive steering and the light back end makes it very chuckable (Evo's sole complaint about the new Ford Ka was that its not a s good to drive as the old one) which is why its been a popular car for rallying for years.

I say go for it, the Ka is a great first car.


Regards

Scaff
 
I dislike the Ka intently.

To elaborate, the design was a cute and quirky one. Really fresh and innovative. A decade ago. Somehow, now, time and the fact that every twelfth car is a Ford Ka has somewhat dulled the freshness and quirkiness of the design. If I had to exit my house and see that every day, I might just hang myself.

Second on my list of detests is the spartanness (it's a word now, okay?). In many ways it reminds me of the Citroen AX. The basic car is the real car, and it's a cold, cold, rattly, cold place in there. Higher-spec models have a whole "Blue Peter" feel to them - you want trim? We'll just stick some Pringle-jumper material on the door cards. Win!

Third is the drivers. Do a Ka survey, and I can guarantee that 80% of the drivers will be teenage girls/overweight teenage girls who will, at any given moment, be utilising a fluffy pink steering wheel cover, smoking or on their mobile phone. Kas are the second most badly-driven cars on the road as a result (after the Seat Leon, and just ahead of the A3/A4/3-series triumvirate).

Still going, we come to the name. Apparently Ford encourage the use of "Kay-ay", despite marketing it as "Car". Everyone on Earth knows it's a short, gutteral "KA".

Lastly, we've got the vehicle itself. Take a test drive of this thing somewhere near a middle-size secondary school around School Run (Afternoon) time. This is what you can look forward to over your next three years of ownership - the feeling of accidentally bumping into a table in a pub and knocking all of the drinks upon it over, then turning to see that it's occupied by the contestants in World's Strongest Man and they've all just stood up.


Actually driving the thing is a good laugh, when you get the chance to. But it is based on the revised Mk3 Fiesta chassis, so it bloody should be. This means that parts are cheap and almost everything from the Ford Puma fits. The engine needs absolutely wringing to get any pace from it too, which can be a laugh (but generally means second-handers are a bit worn-out). But I wouldn't be willing to live with such an awfully compromised car just in case I get the chance to give it a good welly once in a while.


In many respects it's like the original Mini - it's a tiny, spartan, box on wheels which is ideal for an amateur spannerer and brilliant fun on the right road at the right time. But as an everyday prospect to drive in normal circumstances (rush hour, motorway, town), I'd rather have polio.

Compare the Mk1 Focus - which is a bit dull with a dull name and a dull but comfy interior, a dull series of engines and a surprising ability to get round the twisty stuff. It eats the everyday stuff without complaint and is good fun on the right road at the right time. If it was my £2k, it wouldn't go to a 5 year old Ka, even in a straight fight between the two.
 
Wow, I thought you only hated the Clio that much.

Kas are the second most badly-driven cars on the road as a result (after the Seat Leon, and just ahead of the A3/A4/3-series triumvirate).
Can I have a side serving of BBQ source on that one please :p
 
I hate the Clio. I only dislike the Ka - it has things about it which aren't awful.

As for the Mayonnaise... Just experience. Every Leon on the road is driven like a) it's a Cupra R, not a 1.9 TDi and b) as though the driver was rushing to stop his girlfriend being raped to death by AIDS zombies in his blazing home full of irreplaceable antique books. Kas, 80% of the time, are driven as though there's a teenage girl (who may be fat) using a fluffy pink steering wheel cover, smoking while on her mobile phone.

3-series/A3/A4 at least make a satisfying Dopplery noise as they go from front-left to rear-left corner.

Seriously, I've never encountered vehicles driven as badly as the average Leon and Ka. They're in my top group, along with flat-cap drivers, loose grey perm drivers, modified hatchbacks and anyone sporting an Ichthus badge.
 
Cons:

  • Compared to a Focus, it's a little basic. But then Focuses cost more, so...
  • Two of my possible unis (the top two) are Leeds and Huddersfield. That eliminates the air con issue, but a 5 hour journey in a go-kart is not an idea I relish the thought of.
  • Ideally I'd like something a little bigger. I loved the Ka when I was 13 because it was the only car I could see over the dashboard of. I'm considerably taller than I was when I was 13, and it's now a bit of a squeeze.
  • This is the car I'm probably going to crash. I value my legs, and this was the car that received the award for 'Worst Brakes' in Auto Express's reader survey not all that long ago. Hmm...

I'm interested. Opinions, please.

(And obviously I'd stick some minilites on it ASAP)

Let me address some of these, as a Fiesta owner, and a model of Fiesta that shares the same engine as the Ka (the 1.3) and has a trim level about the same as a very basic Ka. For the record, I have driven an actual Ka for a reasonable distance too, enough to confirm that it's similar enough to the Fiesta for everything below to apply to both.

Yes, it is basic. But then basic means less stuff to go wrong, for a new driver. Take my Fiesta as an example. The power steering fluid has never leaked, and the pump has never gone. Mostly because it doesn't have power steering. The electric sunroof, window and mirror motors will never wear out, because it doesn't have any of those either. It doesn't have aircon, which means you can't inadvertantly leave it on and be left with less power and 10% fewer miles to the gallon. The seats are basic - just fabric, but it's hard wearing. Mine has a CD player because I politely explained to the salesman five years ago that nobody listens to tapes anymore, and they agreed so fitted a factory CD player. Along with metallic paint, it's the car's only luxury. I've had the thing for five and a half years and don't feel too hard done by. You'll feel the same with a Ka.

EDIT: And you'll probably have power steering. Did you know, the geometry for the power steered cars is different to that of the non power-steered cars - and that they fit them with wider tyres and a slightly shorter final drive? Ford thought that those going for power steering would appreciate better handling and a little more kick from the engine. Useless info courtesy of an old 1996 issue of Autocar.

How tall are you? I'm 5'9" ish and have enough space, and the seat is nowhere near fully slid back. Fair enough, not many people would want to sit behind you if you're taller and the seat is further back, but rear passengers are overrated. I wouldn't worry about long journeys either. At the weekend I did... *calculates* over 600 miles in mine, or about 15 hours of driving, involving driving between Newcastle and Leeds, down to London, around London, then right back from the centre of London to Newcastle again in one pop. The car was easily capable of it (80mph cruise on the motorway absolutely no worries), I stepped out of it in Newcastle with no aches or pains, and it's done more than 45mpg on a tank to boot.

EDIT: And I see you've got the newer engine, so you'd have no problems whatsoever on the motorway with the extra helping of torque and extra 10bhp. And the trim level will be much better than the very first Kas that came out.

Kas aren't all that bad in a crash, really. Safer than my Fiesta, and when they came out in 1996 they were much safer than the Vauxhall frigging Corsa, and even slightly better than the VW Polo of the time (I recall, from an old issue of "Complete Car" - I miss that mag...). Obviously it won't be as safe as a Focus, but then thats why God gave you eyes so you could anticipate idiot drivers and keep yourself out of trouble.

Ignore Auto Express and especially ignore the sort of people who fill in their surveys. These are people who know very, very little about cars, and only buy issues with surveys in so they can bitch about how bad their choice of car is. I tend to read Autocar much more (genuine enthusiasts and very professional writers), and they adore the Ka. On the brakes thing, they're perfectly adequate. The Ka is light. The brakes bring it to a halt pretty well because they don't require much effort. If your sister's has ABS you won't have any troubles - I've locked my wheels three times in 5.5 years - once to try and avoid hitting a pheasant (I failed), once on a very greasy country road, and once in Leeds when I failed to spot a red light and reacted instead to my girlfriend screaming "RED!". And in each situation the car still stopped pretty sharpish.

EDIT: And I see you have ABS, so the above problems are null and void.

And yes, you will stick some Minilites on it ;)

Methinks Famine is being a little harsh on the Ka itself (though not on the drivers, who are generally as hopeless as he says). Styling wise it's grown on me, rather than getting tired. Back in 1996 when I was 11 and generally knew nothing, I thought it was hideous and couldn't understand why anybody would buy one over a Fiesta. Given another 12 years of hindsight, I can see that it's an immensely good small car, genuinely the spiritual successor of the original Mini.

If you have your heart set on something a bit bigger and more comfortable then it may not be the car for you though, so think carefully. I'm just here to say that the Ka is a bloody good car and the opportunity to buy one that you know the history of, at the price a dealer would give for it (not the price they'd sell it for) is a good one to take.
 
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[*]This is the car I'm probably going to crash. I value my legs, and this was the car that received the award for 'Worst Brakes' in Auto Express's reader survey not all that long ago. Hmm...

Worst brakes in some dumb award doesn't mean anything when all of them have probably been neglected, and for instance a change of brake fluid and pads do a lot. Not saying it's not anything to go by, just saying that those tests are compromised and you'll most likely find many other cars with ****** brakes ;)

If you can live with that interior, I'd go for it. Cut some springs and find some wheelz.
 
expect zero excitement in it lol
brakes were fine on the one i drove while learning, and their strength was tested frequently :p its an alright runaround though and its great she will be asking what the dealer would offer, no doubt a much lower number than youl find buying one second hand
 
At 17, anything you can afford is likely to be less safe than larger/more expensive cars.

5 hour journeys tend to be uncomfortable at the end regardless of the car you're in. In my experience, there's no difference in driving long distances in either my Mini, Merc, Volvo or the 57 reg Corsa I rented last year.

Most of what Famine said boiled down to image; just because everyone else drives like an idiot doesn't mean you will. Aside from that there's trim, but there's nothing missing that you actually need. Want air con? Open a window.

Lastly, you've listed more than twice as many pros than cons. You've also missed another pro, which is that it'll be easy as to park. Basically, it has everything you need and probably can afford. Anything else is just being picky.

What alternatives have you considered?
 
I think at the end of the day, there's not much wrong with the Ka other than its average driver and its spartan...ness. Which, actually, isn't THAT bad - it's no Jag, but it's bearable (CD player and electric windows etc, no remote locking but meh).

If I like it and it's a reasonable price, I think I'll just go for it to be honest. If I decide in even 2 month's time that I really can't stand it, I'll trade it in for something else. Surely it can't lose that much value in a short space of time... Particularly as it's a Ka, rather than a relatively thirsty 1.8 Mondeo.

Roo
Lastly, you've listed more than twice as many pros than cons. You've also missed another pro, which is that it'll be easy as to park. Basically, it has everything you need and probably can afford. Anything else is just being picky.

What alternatives have you considered?

Yeah, I noticed that :p And the parking is a bonus indeed.

I've considered just about everything, really. 2nd gen Mondeos, 1st gen Foci, mk4 (mk3 facelift) Fiestas, Smart ForFours (moving up in price now), 3rd gen Mondeos, 3rd gen Foci (moving even more...), Suzuki Swifts, Grande Puntos... yeah. I've been pretty open minded tbh. There's nothing I haven't really considered (Corsas and higher priced stuff aside). I was looking at Kas at one point too. Albeit the Luxury and newer Zetec ones.
 
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Roo
Most of what Famine said boiled down to image; just because everyone else drives like an idiot doesn't mean you will. Aside from that there's trim, but there's nothing missing that you actually need. Want air con? Open a window.

Points 3 and 4 certainly. And 1 to an extent.

But it's still a nasty, rattly can in which comfort seems to be a stuck-on afterthought and, if it's a daily driver for someone relatively new to the roads, quite uncomfortable to be in when you're boxed in by numpties in Audi Q7s.


Mind you, the Q7 is so large that if five people get into one, it becomes too massive to support its own weight and collapses in on itself to form a singularity. And you're a Mini enthusiast, so you enjoy that sort of thing.
 
Points 3 and 4 certainly. And 1 to an extent.

But it's still a nasty, rattly can in which comfort seems to be a stuck-on afterthought and, if it's a daily driver for someone relatively new to the roads, quite uncomfortable to be in when you're boxed in by numpties in Audi Q7s.


Mind you, the Q7 is so large that if five people get into one, it becomes too massive to support its own weight and collapses in on itself to form a singularity. And you're a Mini enthusiast, so you enjoy that sort of thing.

Actually just for a bit of balance, what would you suggest instead of a Ka?
 
Actually just for a bit of balance, what would you suggest instead of a Ka?

I'd have to hunt around, but I'm presuming you want something of similar age for the same money?
 
And you're a Mini enthusiast, so you enjoy that sort of thing.

Not to mention the fact that I think every car made in the last, oooh, 7 years or so - apart from my mum's 51 plate Kia Rio - has too much unnecessary frippery.* Seriously, why do you need motors to make the seats move? Or the windows move? Why do you need the car to tell you when to put your lights or wipers on? And so on, and so forth.

* not including safety equipment like TC, ABS, air bags and so on.
 
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I'd have to hunt around, but I'm presuming you want something of similar age for the same money?

Well, my requirements and budget are as long as a piece of string, basically. I can spend anything from £1.50 to, let's say, £3500 and am happy with anything from a ForTwo to a V70. Both big and small cars have their advantages in my position. More than anything it can't be much to insure. I'm still learning, so it's got to be cheaper than my mum's C4 (I've had quotes of around £1500 for named driver on provisional) otherwise I might as well wait until I've passed. Running costs aren't such an issue if the car is much cheaper to begin with (£1500 spent on a 1.8 petrol instead of £2000 spent on a 1.3 diesel, for example). And some way of knowing that it won't bankrupt me in repair costs is preferable.

So yeah, it depends what it is. I highly doubt you'd get anything other than a Tibetan shed on wheels on a 53 plate for £2000. That or an Alto.
 
Is that £1500 with you as main driver? Because no matter what you are driving I wouldn't expect much less.

With Motor Direct I had £1400 '99 1.4 Almera, and my mate £1450 '98 1ltr Polo.
 
Is that £1500 with you as main driver? Because no matter what you are driving I wouldn't expect much less.

With Motor Direct I had £1400 '99 1.4 Almera, and my mate £1450 '98 1ltr Polo.

Nope, named. Well I was quoted £700 at one point, but that's with a company I simply assumed the comparison site had made up. The majority of them were more-or-less £1500.
 
I've driven a ka about once a week for the last couple of years(we've got one at home), though it's quite fun to drive, it's slow as hell, and engine's wont last very long, because you've got to put the pedal to the metal to get anywhere.
Our Ka has died a few months ago, due to a weared out camshaft, which was apparantly made from the wrong kind of steel, which made it completely useless after 130000 kms, resulting in a horrible engine sound of a valve hitting a cilinder before death. The fuel consumption is quite bad by the way, we have a mondeo at home which is a significantly better performer and uses less (and is obviously twice as big). Also it will rust under the doors and the most of the time either the right speaker or the rear windscreenwiper wont work.
though when you can find a good one (the new engines are supposed to be better), you can have some fun with them at a reasonable price.
 
I'd say go for it.

Let's face it, you're 17 right?
Unless you're on the verge of signing a first-team contract with Chelski, you're not going to be able to afford anything remotely like the Bentley or Aston Martin that's likely to make a 5hr drive seem comfortable. ;)

On the other side of this, you're using the car for driving to/from Uni about 4 or 5 times a year. You're going to be at Uni, supposedly studying a little, but mainly getting plastered and going out on the pull. :p You'll probably make nothing more than quick runs to the supermarket every now and then, but you'll be having too much fun to be worrying about making a 5hr journey to see "Mummy & Daddy" every other weekend.

The Ka isn't too bad when it comes to long trips, my sister had one, a bit like Scaff's wife's one, 1.3L on an X-plate. She used it reasonably frequently to travel from Surrey to visit my folks in Cheshire. As far as I'm aware she had no complaints with the comfort and no real maintenance issues with the car in general.
Pretty much like your sister, she only got rid of it after a promotion at work meant she had the means to upgrade to something a little better and she traded it in for a new Honda Civic Sport about 4 years ago, (and got access to her, then boyfriend, now husband's MG MGF!)
 
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Well, my requirements and budget are as long as a piece of string, basically. I can spend anything from £1.50 to, let's say, £3500 and am happy with anything from a ForTwo to a V70. Both big and small cars have their advantages in my position. More than anything it can't be much to insure. I'm still learning, so it's got to be cheaper than my mum's C4 (I've had quotes of around £1500 for named driver on provisional) otherwise I might as well wait until I've passed. Running costs aren't such an issue if the car is much cheaper to begin with (£1500 spent on a 1.8 petrol instead of £2000 spent on a 1.3 diesel, for example). And some way of knowing that it won't bankrupt me in repair costs is preferable.

So yeah, it depends what it is. I highly doubt you'd get anything other than a Tibetan shed on wheels on a 53 plate for £2000. That or an Alto.

You can get 03-plate Mondeos for £2k - there's a 1.8 petrol LX Estate with 66k on it on AutoTrader for £1,995 - and the fact it isn't a small hatchback should mean it's notionally cheaper to insure for you than you might think (try to ignore insurance groups - young males in hatchbacks have very high premiums because the most commonly crashed car is a hatchback with a young male in it, and it's usually a big thump).

And to be honest I'd recommend that over a might-be-fun-in-exactly-the-right-circumstances Ka. Mk3 Mondeos are actualy pretty decent to drive, if lacking the go-kart chuckability of the Ka.

£3,500 makes your budget more interesting though :D
 
You can get 03-plate Mondeos for £2k - there's a 1.8 petrol LX Estate with 66k on it on AutoTrader for £1,995 - and the fact it isn't a small hatchback should mean it's notionally cheaper to insure for you than you might think (try to ignore insurance groups - young males in hatchbacks have very high premiums because the most commonly crashed car is a hatchback with a young male in it, and it's usually a big thump).

And to be honest I'd recommend that over a might-be-fun-in-exactly-the-right-circumstances Ka. Mk3 Mondeos are actualy pretty decent to drive, if lacking the go-kart chuckability of the Ka.

£3,500 makes your budget more interesting though :D

Amazingly, you're right. I mean I've never been one who's assumed that small cars are cheaper used buys than larger ones (depreciation rocks) but I sort of assumed the Ka would be cheaper than just about everything because it's an old design and there's about 3 million of them to choose from.

I mean look at this:

media


2002 1.8 Graphite. 57k. £2000. Yes please. In all honesty though, it's going to be useless as a car to learn to drive on. Alright, I could argue that if I can park that, I'll have no problems doing it with the Corsa test car. But it's actually more expensive to insure than our C4. I can't even get a quote under £2000 without a £500 voluntary excess. And when you factor in the MPG and the tax bracket, it gets a little bit expensive to say the least. And it's worth it. Maybe. I think I'd get tired of people telling me I should have bought a Corsa, though.

I dunno. I'll probably persuaded to do the sensible thing and get something small in the end (there's a lot of sensible-trouser wearing people in my family who will tell me what it is I want).
 

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