Ford... The Attention Whore.

[harrytuttle]

Its amazing where you get your info from

Oh please. Anyone who follows Mustangs even remotely knows that there were tons of pre-2006 Cobras with swapped out rear-ends. There were legitimate complaints about the delicacy of the independant-rear suspension, and Ford used that to cheapen out on the new Mustang rather than do real research and try to move the Mustang upmarket (if ever so slightly).

And the real history of the Mustang's success is not on the drag strip, but on the road courses. Hence, the original GT-350. Drag racing was much later.

Its funny you don't understand what definition of Grand Touring is in relations to cars, rather than explaining it let me illustrate:

M6-grand touring coupe
XK-R-grand touring coupe
CL 63 AMG- grand touring coupe

Now get it?

Yes, but you don't. The Mustang is nowhere near the league of those cars. By your definition, the Mazda Miata is a GT, which is ridiculous. A "grand touring" car is not defined just by its layout, but by the inclusion of luxury and refinement, something that no Mustang has ever had.

 

[YSSMAN]

Funny that we should talk about the CL63 for a moment...

1) They aren't even on-sale yet in North America

2) There is about 10-times the luxury and technology in the car than any Mustang ever produced

3) Base MSRP starts around $130,000... So if we are using the rules that a $46-50K Corvette can't compete with a Mustang despite the rather small price difference, how is this any different?

 

[dubbed]

Oh please. Anyone who follows Mustangs even remotely knows that there were tons of pre-2006 Cobras with swapped out rear-ends. There were legitimate complaints about the delicacy of the independant-rear suspension, and Ford used that to cheapen out on the new Mustang rather than do real research and try to move the Mustang upmarket (if ever so slightly).

I guess you didn't read where an IRS was tested and added more weight than the well tuned solid rear...

Yes, but you don't. The Mustang is nowhere near the league of those cars.

In price no...but performance yes.

By your definition, the Mazda Miata is a GT, which is ridiculous. A "grand touring" car is not defined just by its layout, but by the inclusion of luxury and refinement, something that no Mustang has ever had.

No the miata is a sports car two doors two seats:

Also "grand touring" doesn't have to expensive to be considered one, ie Mercedes calls their C-class a grand touring car....Refinement, I guess you should read over every review and how the GT500 is praised as refined bruiser...

 

[Deathclown66]

Good lord, the world is ending now.
Ford Mustangs are Grand Tourers!
So, are Camaros GT's too?
It's a muscle car.. a muscle car.... do you know what muscle cars are? Mustangs, Camaros, Firebirds, Challengers, GTOs, Get it?

 

[dubbed]

then what is a muscle car, by that an M3 is a muscle car, and FPV GT is a muscle car. "Muscle car" is a very vague term.

 

[Deathclown66]

then what is a muscle car, by that an M3 is a muscle car, and FPV GT is a muscle car. "Muscle car" is a very vague term.

An M3 is a Sports Luxury Tourer
an FPV is a muscle car.

 

[socomplayer2]

its like all the special edition ford models from the past are all coming back in like 2 years... im not compllaining, i love the mustangs:tup:

 

[inferno]

firstly, i'm seeing allot of people call this the "shelby cobra GT500". it's not, it's the "Ford Shelby GT500". the cobra and GT500 names have never been associated with eachother.

secondly, i like to think that this "Ford Shelby GT500" came about to fill the void with SVT out of commision, and get a fast mustang out while theres still nothing to compete with it. the fact thats it's not an SVT is the reason it isnt as optomised as it could be, ford needs somewhere to go up from here. (see below)

and thirdly, my prediction/hope for the future of the mustang. if (hopefully) SVT makes a comeback, the car we have now as the "Ford Shelby GT500" will get an alluminum block version of the current s/c dohc 5.4 liter, (possibly making 550 hp) an independant rear suspension, and a restyle of course, thusly becoming, the "Ford Mustang SVT Cobra", just like the previous gen cars. of course, if chevrolet drops the lighter, smaller, naturaly asperated LS7 into the next camaro, none of that will matter anyway.

 

[dubbed]

An M3 is a Sports Luxury Tourer
an FPV is a muscle car.

So then what does the "GT" in "FPV GT" stand for?

firstly, i'm seeing allot of people call this the "shelby cobra GT500". it's not, it's the "Ford Shelby GT500". the cobra and GT500 names have never been associated with eachother.

secondly, i like to think that this "Ford Shelby GT500" came about to fill the void with SVT out of commision, and get a fast mustang out while theres still nothing to compete with it. the fact thats it's not an SVT is the reason it isnt as optomised as it could be, ford needs somewhere to go up from here.

The official name in the Shelby GT500 but SVT is on about 18 places on the car itself. Also SVT is still alive, the GT took a lot of resources and leadership has changed but more stuff is coming (ie SVT fusion, Lightning.....)

some examples:

 

[inferno]

The official name in the Shelby GT500 but SVT is on about 18 places on the car itself. Also SVT is still alive, the GT took a lot of resources and leadership has changed but more stuff is coming (ie SVT fusion, Lightning.....)

some examples:

[IMAGE]

[IMAGE]

[IMAGE]

ahh.. i see. i always viewed the GT500 as annother one of fords "living legends" cars like the bullit and the mach 1. i dont know, maby my prediction will still come true. the IRS though seems like a given as the new mustang was designed to accomidate one from the begining.

While were on the subject of the mustang, i wish they would switch the mustang completely over to the 5.4, even the GT. i mean the 4.6 is really a joke. nearly a liter smaller although it's the same size (and weight) not considering it's fancy three valve per cylinder heads. they could have just as much power and more torque if they just pulled the current 5.4 strait from the F150 and stuffed it in a mustang as is. i realise the 4.6 is somewhat of a throw back to the 289 of the 60's but come on. the 289 (and 302) were popular because they were small and light, and relativly powerfull. the modular 4.6 is none of those things. Anyone else with me?

 

[TopHat]

I think our hearing all skipped a beat when the said Z06 Killer, but they meant Z28 killer.

 

[YSSMAN]

Good lord, the world is ending now.
Ford Mustangs are Grand Tourers!
So, are Camaros GT's too?
It's a muscle car.. a muscle car.... do you know what muscle cars are? Mustangs, Camaros, Firebirds, Challengers, GTOs, Get it?

Not to be entirely picky...

The Mustang, Camaro/Firebird, Challenger, 'Cuda, AMX, etc were all "Pony-Cars."

The GTO, Chevelle, Cutlass/442, GS, Charger, Roadrunner, Torino, etc were all "muscle cars."

The Corvette, back then, fell partially between the two and was often compared to the high-power Mustangs (particularly the GT500 and Cobra-Jet), and later on, other foreign sports-cars from Italy and England.

By today's standards, the lines have been blurred. The term "muscle car" is thrown around so willy-nilly these days to the point where automotive magazines have had the stones to refer to the STi and Evolution as modern muscle cars. I still consider the Mustang, Camaro, and Challenger "pony cars" no matter what. Sure, they will still compete with the likes of the GTO, Charger, otherwise defined by myself as "muscle cars," but that doesn't always place them into the same category.

...Price and performance is the deciding factor these days, and Ford placed the GT500 in one helluva spot. Ford made the mistake of shooting for the Corvette and coming up short. Sure, it is still a great car, but in the category it is in, it simply isn't the best choice...

But, I would take a GT500 over an M3 any day. Call me crazy, but the GT500 simply has what other cars don't, the "cool" factor. Thats what makes the GT500 special. Sure, shes quick... But the looks, sound, and feel of the car make it different, and therefore "cool." Too bad there are far too many overweight, balding, middle-age men driving them...

 

[Deathclown66]

So then what does the "GT" in "FPV GT" stand for?

Are Grand-Ams, Sunfires, Beretta's, and so forth "Grand Tourers" as well?
A lotta GT badges, on non Grand Touring cars.

 

[super cirrus]

Grand Tourers have rear-seat room that somebody who is, oh, I don't know, 5-10, 150lbs like myself, can actually sit in the rear, without digging holes in the back of the front seat with their knees.
The Mustang is a muscle car, and I'll leave it at that.

definition of grand tour: A grand tourer (Italian: Gran Turismo), sometimes initialised GT, is a high-performance automobile designed for long distance driving. Any such car could be considered to be a grand tourer, but the traditional and most common body style is a two-door coupé with either a two-seat or a 2+2 seat arrangement.

Grand tourers differ from typical sports cars (such as the Chevrolet Corvette or the Porsche 911) in that they are usually larger, heavier (sometimes over 3500 lb), and tend to make less compromise in comfort for the sake of driving ability. For this reason they mostly have front-mounted engines, which leave more space for the cabin than mid-mounted engines. They also tend to have softer suspension to provide good ride quality. However, grand tourers do have similarities with sports cars, such as the fact they mainly use rear or four-wheel drive.

sounds like the mustang fits the bill. The GT500 fits the GT description better than the musclecar one:


definition of muscle car: The term muscle car generally describes a mid-size car with a large, powerful engine (typically, although not universally, a V8 engine) and special trim, intended for maximum acceleration on the street or in drag racing competition. It is distinguished from sports cars, which were customarily and coincidentally considered smaller, two-seat cars, or GTs, two-seat or 2+2 cars intended for high-speed touring and possibly road racing. High-performance full-size or compact cars are arguably excluded from this category, as are the breed of compact sports coupes inspired by the Ford Mustang, the "pony car". Another factor used in defining a classic muscle cars is age and country of origin.

boo ya

 

[Deathclown66]

definition of grand tour: A grand tourer (Italian: Gran Turismo), sometimes initialised GT, is a high-performance automobile designed for long distance driving. Any such car could be considered to be a grand tourer, but the traditional and most common body style is a two-door coupé with either a two-seat or a 2+2 seat arrangement.

well, that's vague as hell.

Grand tourers differ from typical sports cars (such as the Chevrolet Corvette or the Porsche 911) in that they are usually larger, heavier (sometimes over 3500 lb), and tend to make less compromise in comfort for the sake of driving ability. For this reason they mostly have front-mounted engines, which leave more space for the cabin than mid-mounted engines. They also tend to have softer suspension to provide good ride quality. However, grand tourers do have similarities with sports cars, such as the fact they mainly use rear or four-wheel drive.

So they make less comprimise, but have softer suspension, for better ride? get a grip, man, where did you find this garbage?
(that definition also defines a sports car, just a particular size.)

sounds like the mustang fits the bill. The GT500 fits the GT description better than the musclecar one:

See below.

definition of muscle car: The term muscle car generally describes a mid-size car with a large, powerful engine (typically, although not universally, a V8 engine) and special trim, intended for maximum acceleration on the street or in drag racing competition. It is distinguished from sports cars, which were customarily and coincidentally considered smaller, two-seat cars, or GTs, two-seat or 2+2 cars intended for high-speed touring and possibly road racing. High-performance full-size or compact cars are arguably excluded from this category, as are the breed of compact sports coupes inspired by the Ford Mustang, the "pony car". Another factor used in defining a classic muscle cars is age and country of origin.

That just called the Mustang, a PONY CAR.
What is wrong with you?!?!?

boo ya

What's with horrible posts followed by "boo-ya"?

 

[harrytuttle]

I guess you didn't read where an IRS was tested and added more weight than the well tuned solid rear...

Of course I read it, and experienced it first hand. The independent rear suspension made the car far superior in everything but a straight line. It was one of many instances when adding weight to a car actually improved it. But Ford went cheap, and rather than improve on the design or find a way to lighten the structure, they ditched it for something cheaper and that appeals to the lower common denominator. Truer to its roots? Perhaps, but it makes no strides forward for the brand.

Also "grand touring" doesn't have to expensive to be considered one, ie Mercedes calls their C-class a grand touring car....Refinement, I guess you should read over every review and how the GT500 is praised as refined bruiser...

Having both ridden and driven the new GT, I can positively tell you that one thing it is not is refined. It's harsh, it's sloppy, and the interior is bettered by Hyundai. Just because the marketing says one thing, that has no bearing on the reality of the car's ability or level of manufacture. It's great pony car (or muscle car), and while it's better than the old Mustang (a small accomplishment), it's no grand touring car.

 

[super cirrus]

well, that's vague as hell.

How is that vague, it tells you exactly what a Grand Tourer is

So they make less comprimise, but have softer suspension, for better ride? get a grip, man, where did you find this garbage?
(that definition also defines a sports car, just a particular size.)

True sports cars (2 seats) like the like z06/viper are less compromising in ann effort for low weight and fast lap times. GT's generally compromise all out performance for back seats/ slightly softer suspensions, etc to make them more drivable on a daily basis. Of course there are exceptions, but there always are.

That just called the Mustang, a PONY CAR.
What is wrong with you?!?!?

The mustang is a pony car. Matter of fact, it started the pony car craze. You are the one who incorrectly labeled it a muscle car, which is why i pointed it out to you.

What's with horrible posts followed by "boo-ya"?

don't know

 

[YSSMAN]

Of course I read it, and experienced it first hand. The independent rear suspension made the car far superior in everything but a straight line.

Yep. Its called axle-hop, and it is what stops the CTS-V from being un-godly fast on the straight-line tests. It is a compromise that American automakers have to make these days, where they allow for a slight drop in straight-line performance (although for the most part, we can still wipe the floor with most German and Japanese competition) for better cornering ability.

A fair trade-off? I'd say so. Thats why I'm happy GM decided to make the Camaro with an IRS. It puts it that much farther ahead of the blue-oval competition...

 

[Deathclown66]

How is that vague, it tells you exactly what a Grand Tourer is

Because, many cars are designed for long distance driving, and depending on your definition of high performance, that makes the list ever so long.
Huge list = vague definition.

True sports cars (2 seats) like the like z06/viper are less compromising in ann effort for low weight and fast lap times. GT's generally compromise all out performance for back seats/ slightly softer suspensions, etc to make them more drivable on a daily basis. Of course there are exceptions, but there always are.

But it said it "Makes less compomise than CORVETTES in terms of comfort, for the sake of driving ability."
So a Corvette should make more compromise, from performance, to be more comfortable than that definition of a GT.
Does a Corvette make less compromise than the GT500 in terms of comfort?

The mustang is a pony car. Matter of fact, it started the pony car craze. You are the one who incorrectly labeled it a muscle car, which is why i pointed it out to you.

If what you say here is true, why the post and definition claiming the Mustang to be a Grand Tourer?
So I incorrectly labeled it a "Muscle Car" (which is SO wrong), and you corrected me stating it to be a Grand Tourer, and even went to the trouble to find, (or make up) the Grand Touring definition, and that is how we know that you really knew it was a pony car.

Right.

 

[TopHat]

Boo-ya was my horrible mistake....

Mustang = Ponycar

Charger = Full Sized Muscle Car

Corvette = Flippin awesome Car.