FordGT.... Also Question about G25..

  • Thread starter Thread starter MasterDriver
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I think it's a testament to how improved the physics are in GT5 that there is a discussion like this. A lot of the FR & MR cars in Enthusia were similarly difficult to control, now that the GT series has physics to rival Enthusia, but with better grip/loss of grip transitions, the same challenges are finally showing up in GT. On the whole, the cars were way to docile & easy to fling around the track in GT4. Adding this level of complexity & difficulty to the physics gives the game way greater depth & interest. I can't wait for the Nordschleife to show up. 👍
 
Famine
I don't know how many he has. But he's certainly well-placed to know how the real thing handles and how the GT5P one stacks up... Unlike almost everyone else.
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I often forget you all do not have Beyond the Apex.

Yes, he has two, among other drool-worthy cars. And it is his favorite car.


I think that is the thing about this though, people who have a lot of experience with cars and could compete in real world amateur races find it a perfect setup (like Clarkson did in the Top Gear clip), but us mere everyday drivers may find it a bit much to handle without a lot of practice.
 
You also have to keep in mind that if anyone got into a car like that and didn't baby it until they got used to it, they would typically be considered a fool. And most people driving one of them are likely to have experience with other cars in that power range. Then we hear about people crying about it when they treat it like they are either at full throttle or nothing like they are playing Cruisin USA
 
I bought the GT Ford & spent about 4 hours last night babying it around High Speed Ring. Yep, It is a handful! After a good few tries managed to win the American Muscle race in A Class with it. It's not about beating the opponents, it's about keeping the car under control. It's a weird race, like driving in molasses, because all the cars seem like they're going really slow, rumbling along at low RPM, as opposed to the screaming JPN cars or the Ferraris. Only in the replay do you get a sense of the speed.

The first corner in HSR reverse is a killer - cannot avoid the rear end stepping out, just have to try & control it with (very delicate) counter-steer. I still haven't managed to win the All Stars race with the GT...
 
I was having the same problem (Ford GT and Logitech G25). My answer is to feather the pedal coming out of a turn or when upshifting. I don't use clutch but when racing the GT, my feet are on both the brakes and gas and instead of stepping hard on the gas or brakes, you slowly press/release into them and once pass that point you can upshift and put as much pressure on the gas pedal as you want. I've never driven a Ford GT, but it is to my knowledge, it's threadbare design means that it's harder to drive than most modern sportscar. But once you get the hang of it, it's quite magnificent: the power is raw and scary. I have to add that with GT5, the reason to own a good steering wheel becomes more imperative and if you insist on driving with your gamepad, then you're missing the most important element of the game: driving.
 
The GT is a supercar designed by Ford. The same company that brags about their quality "now being equal to Toyota's". How do you expect it to handle? Anyways, set front toe to OUT and rear toe to IN. That should help a little bit.
 
glad other people notice the Ford GT's odd handling.
I love all the GT games and would like to defend this car like some people here tried (and yes Kazunori has 2 of these cars and loves em, but still) but the car (driving it in stock setup and with s2 tires for time trial...but even race tires make not much difference) just does not feel right. Its like driving on ice. Its almost like the stock differential is not working or set too low for deceleration. Lift off oversteer? Try going off the throttle completely ON A STRAIGHT and then just steer gently into the next turn. Same thing! The back comes around like there is no grip. I find all the other cars in the game with similar power and construction give you a much better feel. I have to say that I set some of my fastest times in the GT (compared to the F430, the viper, the Z06 and even the GT-R) once you know what to do when driving it but I don't think that pampering and babying the car around the track seems realistic. Its all fine when you are alone on the track but with other cars cutting in front of you or making mistakes the GT is a nightmare as soon as you have to make adjustments to you line or slow down in any manner while turning.
Oh...and I compared the GT to the one in Forza2. Much nicer to drive there and I don't know which game is more realistic, but Forza2 is also a SIM and I liked playing it while I waited for GT5P to finally come out. Now the 360 is mainly resting, except for that little test :)
 
Its like driving on ice.
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That was the complaint always made against the realistic (?) physics of Enthusia.

I have no idea what it's like to drive a FordGT, so I can't judge how realistic the handling is in GT5P. I will say it's a hell of lot more interesting to drive than that deadly dull supercar the GTR.

My answer is to apply gentle throttle through the turn, but still very difficult, & the AI cars don't seem to have a problem. :irked:
 
I think the main problem with the ford GT is that it responds the worst to PD's insane default tuning of - everything set to the middle - most other cars in the game are at least manageable with this setup but the GT needs a radical retune just to stay on the road. Once you've found the sweet spot, however, it rocks!

You have to go easy on the throttle on corner exits but when it bites it'll throw you out of that bend faster than anything else and it's one of the most rewarding cars in the game for me, simply because to drive it fast requires mastery, unlike a lot of the cars where pointing it the right way and flooring the accelerator will usually do the job.
 
P3nT4gR4m
I think the main problem with the ford GT is that it responds the worst to PD's insane default tuning of - everything set to the middle - most other cars in the game are at least manageable with this setup but the GT needs a radical retune just to stay on the road. Once you've found the sweet spot, however, it rocks!

You have to go easy on the throttle on corner exits but when it bites it'll throw you out of that bend faster than anything else and it's one of the most rewarding cars in the game for me, simply because to drive it fast requires mastery, unlike a lot of the cars where pointing it the right way and flooring the accelerator will usually do the job.
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I disagree. Even stock tuning this car does well, slightly tuned it does better, but its just about how you drive it. No gas or brake in the corner, and it can hang with the rest no prob.
 
It's an american sports car, what did you guys expect?

On another note IF it is driven well while tuned you have a force to be reckoned with.
 
After running laps with the GT for about 45 mins with this on Suzaka, it definitely has its merits, but also demands a very high standard of driving. This is with the G25/Simulation, Pro physics, S1 tires, and all assists off. It does go extremely loose with tiny throttle inputs on the long bends. I found it more stable in braking than the Viper. I was able to do some delicate trail braking, which helped with stability.

It all boils down to practice with car and track without trying to chase everything in front of you. After losing grip on the same part of the same corner each of the first three laps, I adjusted my inputs. Slow down. Find the line that works for you. Aim to shave small amounts off of your time. I would rather consistently go 1:35-1:38 than "usually" 1:34, occasionally 2:04. I tell myself, "in a real car, I'd be dead", and it makes it easier for me to slow down in-game. :)

I would agree with other posters who have pointed out that the issue that most people seem to be having is that this car (really, any car with this much weight and power) requires a great deal more finesse than with the usual raft of FWDs with sewing machine engines.

That's why I like the GT. It forces me to be a better driver.
 
I have no problem learnign to be a "Better Driver". But i want to know if it Handles like this in REAL LIFE. Im' trying to train my skills, and get a good feel for what it may feel lilke in real life. before i test drive it :D
 
The GT does seem to act strangely in constant radius long sweepers where it will begin to bring the tail out even with a painstakingly constant throttle. The oversteer component in the physics has just been overdone IMO for the RWD cars. Better than GT4 yes, but too far the other way. AWD cars on the other hand, and I own a 2008 TT, are much too forgiving in the way the physics are currently. Some middle ground is needed.
 
The GT does seem to act strangely in constant radius long sweepers where it will begin to bring the tail out even with a painstakingly constant throttle. The oversteer component in the physics has just been overdone IMO for the RWD cars. Better than GT4 yes, but too far the other way. AWD cars on the other hand, and I own a 2008 TT, are much too forgiving in the way the physics are currently. Some middle ground is needed.
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I can manage to keep it under control with "painstakingly constant" throttle, but then I wind up being slower through the turn than the AI Ford GTs (the dealership GT event)!

In contrast, I do find the AWD vehicles too forgiving & therefore rather uninteresting to drive. I'm can't judge how true to life all these physics are however...
 
darTTh audi
The GT does seem to act strangely in constant radius long sweepers where it will begin to bring the tail out even with a painstakingly constant throttle. The oversteer component in the physics has just been overdone IMO for the RWD cars.
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There is no "oversteer component" in the physics in Gran Turismo. If it had a physics model as simple as that, it'd be GTA 1 not GT 5. If you do not believe me, take a look at an open source racing simulator like TORCS or racer.nl -- even these hobbyist efforts have never comprised something as simplistic as an "oversteer component".

GT is evaluating all forces affecting individual tire traction (probably even down to chassis torsion). When the tire slips, it slips. There is no "oh he lifted the throttle while cornering so I'm going to oversteer now" or "he's too fast so the rear has to step out" logic buried in the simulation. It follows from accurate modelling of physical forces.

Regarding the high-speed cornering MR oversteer: constant throttle does not mean you're safe. Depending on your speed and turning angle, constant throttle can mean acceleration or even deceleration, both of which can unsettle your car, along with road surface imperfections and aerodynamic problems. The GT does not generate a sufficient amount of downforce to keep the rear stable in high-speed corners. For example, the long left-hander after the esses in Suzuka demands all your attention if you want to take it at full throttle (partly due to the fact that the bend goes over a crest, too). Now try this bend full throttle in a quick-tuned NSX-R, a very similar car but with even less rear downforce. Have fun!
 
zabeu
There is no "oversteer component" in the physics in Gran Turismo. If it had a physics model as simple as that, it'd be GTA 1 not GT 5. If you do not believe me, take a look at an open source racing simulator like TORCS or racer.nl -- even these hobbyist efforts have never comprised something as simplistic as an "oversteer component".

GT is evaluating all forces affecting individual tire traction (probably even down to chassis torsion). When the tire slips, it slips. There is no "oh he lifted the throttle while cornering so I'm going to oversteer now" or "he's too fast so the rear has to step out" logic buried in the simulation. It follows from accurate modelling of physical forces.

Regarding the high-speed cornering MR oversteer: constant throttle does not mean you're safe. Depending on your speed and turning angle, constant throttle can mean acceleration or even deceleration, both of which can unsettle your car, along with road surface imperfections and aerodynamic problems. The GT does not generate a sufficient amount of downforce to keep the rear stable in high-speed corners. For example, the long left-hander after the esses in Suzuka demands all your attention if you want to take it at full throttle (partly due to the fact that the bend goes over a crest, too). Now try this bend full throttle in a quick-tuned NSX-R, a very similar car but with even less rear downforce. Have fun!
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I'm not interested in getting into a back and forth about how real the game is. I like the game. I paid for it and play it quite a bit. If the word component bothers you then just let me say that the tendency for the RWD cars to oversteer is exaggerated, again IMO. The E92 M3 in this game feels to me a lot of the time like my previous E46 M3 did in real life on light snow. If you perceive it to be accurate, that's fine with me. I think it would be more so if this was toned down a bit.
 
Sorry, didn't mean to offend you, darTTh. I admit my reply sounds a bit too abrasive.

However, I do think that you, like many others (myself including) are a bit too undiscerning in the comparison between GT and real life. Very few (in fact I think no-one) of us are driving cars in real life like we do in GT: slam the brakes and the next moment floor the accelerator. In GT, the forces these actions exert on our bodies are completely absent while in real life they serve so well to warn us of the expensive consequences of our driving, making all but the very rich or very ignorant quickly back down.

To look at it another way: driving a car on the limit is, per definitionem, being on the edge between grip and slip. A tire offers the best grip at the exact point where it is beginning to slip, so yes, at that point the car has to feel slippery!

I do not doubt your M3 impressions. But I think that such comparisons between real life and GT are futile because real life is simply so much more scary. I suspect we'll continue to disagree on this and I'm fine with that if you accept my apologies, but I'd like to close with a question: how often have you crashed your car in GT, and how often have you done so in real life? I believe that there's simply too big a difference in how we non-professionals approach the two to make any valid comparisons.
 

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