Formula 1 Heineken Dutch Grand Prix 2021Formula 1 

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Jimlaad43

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The Belgian not-Grand Prix has just passed, and hopefully we can get over the shortest ever Grand Prix with the long-awaited return of Zandvoort to the calendar. A short track with small runoff and actual grass and gravel as track limits will really challenge the drivers along with the bruising two massively banked corners! The race was only brought back for Max Verstappen, and off the back of his "victory" in Belgium, can he make it two from two at his home races? We'll only find out at the DUTCH GRAND PRIX!
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First Grand Prix
1952

Number of Laps
72

Circuit Length
4.259km

Race Distance
306.648 km

Lap Record
*To be determined​
 
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10,317
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I_IGrayfoxI_I
I wonder if the race will be ran for 3 laps as it is "Too Dry" or some other excuse.

And it is astonishing to know that the government or track owner.
Spent millions to renovate the track and bring it up to code just for Max.
 
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DG Silva
This popped up on my Facebook feed (God knows how), but at least there'll be some overtaking guaranteed on that track.... :D

Screenshot_2021-08-31-18-49-58-11_a23b203fd3aafc6dcb84e438dda678b6.jpg
 
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Today was the final 'law suit' against the CM.com circuit owners. Some people (probably for their convinced good reasons) wanted to avoid the F1 circus to take place in the Dutch dunes. The judge said more proven evidence is needed and that is not possible to provide before this weekend so finally official green light for the Dutch GP.

I've visited Zandvoort a lot the past decades. For everyone who will go this weekend: ENJOY. For me personally it is way too overcrowded. Even with 2/3 of the total capacity because of the covid rules.

The area around larger Zandvoort is a no go zone!! Take public transport or park your car even in Amsterdam and take the bike for that 1.30hr ride.

Enough about logistics ;)

Finally a real race again after the summer break and indeed the not-GP at Spa. My son had the best day on Friday...

For all racers Zandvoort is new so really looking forward to this race. Even the (commercial) sims struggled to provide the racing teams a 'proper' new Zandvoort 2021 version. Not sure if true but it is said they could not practice in the sim until this week?

PS Wouldn't it be an enormous joke if Sir Lewis wins the Dutch GP. I personally hope Max will win but seeing Lewis win in Orange Country will make me definitely also smile. Post race: "Best crowd ever". :D
 
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DG Silva
Am I the only one who's not bothered by the booing? I see it as nothing more than game-playing, a bit of pantomime - their guy beating your guy, so you boo him like a heel or a bad guy, rather than with any real malice or aggression behind it? I'm sure none of the fans would wish Lewis (or anyone else winning 'where they shouldn't') any ill will, and would just be happy to see a good race.

Or am I too forgiving/nonplussed?
 
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PaMu1337
Am I the only one who's not bothered by the booing? I see it as nothing more than game-playing, a bit of pantomime - their guy beating your guy, so you boo him like a heel or a bad guy, rather than with any real malice or aggression behind it? I'm sure none of the fans would wish Lewis (or anyone else winning 'where they shouldn't') any ill will, and would just be happy to see a good race.

Or am I too forgiving/nonplussed?
There's much more going on than just booing.
You don't even want to know how many people I've heard saying they wish Lewis would get seriously injured or even would die in a crash. (I've heard people say that he deserves to die for his "attempted murder" of Max at Silverstone)
Besides that there's also the endless stream of racism directed at him.

The thing I'm afraid of happening is hooliganism, destruction of property, etc. And there's a good chance of that happening if there's any incident between Lewis and Max this weekend.
I'm not saying that everyone is like this, but there's a shockingly large group of people who are.
 

Liquid

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Am I the only one who's not bothered by the booing? I see it as nothing more than game-playing, a bit of pantomime - their guy beating your guy, so you boo him like a heel or a bad guy, rather than with any real malice or aggression behind it? I'm sure none of the fans would wish Lewis (or anyone else winning 'where they shouldn't') any ill will, and would just be happy to see a good race.

Or am I too forgiving/nonplussed?
Complete polarity and binaryism is an increasing problem in many aspects of life, sports being one of them. Based on that, I find it weird and pathetic, to be honest, that it is creeping into a sport that historically hasn't really ever had an established, public tribalism, outside of a few specific things like the tifosi.

Formula One isn't football with tribalism nor is it professional wrestling with faces and heels.
 

Jimlaad43

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Sectors and DRS Zones confirmed. We won't be seeing DRS on the banking this year at least. (Picture in OP)
 
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DG Silva
There's much more going on than just booing.
You don't even want to know how many people I've heard saying they wish Lewis would get seriously injured or even would die in a crash. (I've heard people say that he deserves to die for his "attempted murder" of Max at Silverstone)
Besides that there's also the endless stream of racism directed at him.

The thing I'm afraid of happening is hooliganism, destruction of property, etc. And there's a good chance of that happening if there's any incident between Lewis and Max this weekend.
I'm not saying that everyone is like this, but there's a shockingly large group of people who are.
I'm sorry to hear that. That's utterly disgusting and has no place in any sport. While booing could be seen as the thin edge of the wedge, I guess it does depend on the feelings behind it. I've personally not heard of any ill-feeling towards drivers, but I don't really partake in forums outside of here.

I certainly hope that nothing more than booing occurs should Max lose, but from what you've said, it's a possibility of a small section of 'fans'.
Complete polarity and binaryism is an increasing problem in many aspects of life, sports being one of them. Based on that, I find it weird and pathetic, to be honest, that it is creeping into a sport that historically hasn't really ever had an established, public tribalism, outside of a few specific things like the tifosi.

Formula One isn't football with tribalism nor is it professional wrestling with faces and heels.
I do get your point with this, but there has always been a strong nationalism within motor racing, and especially F1 - think of the cheering and how the stadiums would go mad with Senna, Barrichello or Massa overtaking fellow racers and winning at Brazil (OK, maybe not Rubens on the latter); Prost winning in France, and Manselmania at the '92 British GP.

I believe the booing started in earnest in 2002 with the sham of the Austrian GP when Rubens was forced to give up a certain win for Schumacher - after this point, F1 audiences were given a voice, and they let it be known. As you mentioned, the Tifosi then saw it as an opportunity to become more vociferous in their passion should they lose. Finally, when Vettel was dominant in the championship at the expense of his team mates, the return of Schumacher-esque feelings returned.

While nobody deliberately acts up as a bad guy, there are certain individuals who attract negative feelings because of their actions, whether inside or outside of a car; Lauda, Senna, Prost, De Cesaris, Schumacher, Hamilton, Vettel, Maldonado, Mazepin - this is just a very small part of a very long list.

Like you said though, the current aggressive, violent tribalism is a as a result of the politics currently out in the wider public and not to do with F1.
 
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Sectors and DRS Zones confirmed. We won't be seeing DRS on the banking this year at least. (Picture in OP)
I don't expect zone 1 to be very useful; it's not very long, and into a corner which doesn't really allow multiple lines, so should be pretty easy to defend.

Zone 2 we'll have to see how things go in the banking before that
 

Liquid

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I do get your point with this, but there has always been a strong nationalism within motor racing, and especially F1 - think of the cheering and how the stadiums would go mad with Senna, Barrichello or Massa overtaking fellow racers and winning at Brazil (OK, maybe not Rubens on the latter); Prost winning in France, and Manselmania at the '92 British GP.
Fans cheering who they like is fine, that's happened in F1 since forever ago; Hungary doubled up as a Finnish Grand Prix for many years when Hakkinen and Räikkönen were on top. The difference is actively booing the ones that you don't like. That was always much rarer but sadly on the rise for various reasons.

It just doesn't seem right when something negative from other sports start infecting this one. It's not a like-for-like comparison but to me it's a bit like watching a serious play by the Royal Shakespeare Company and the audience booing all the bad guys in Hamlet or MacBeth like it's a panto on Llandudno Pier. It's not the event for that kind of doolally.
 

Dennisch

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Hold up. Why the **** is the park and ride in Beverwijk?
Because there aren't any decent parking lots in the dunes. Zandvoort goes in lockdown for the weekend. And Heemstede, Haarlem and surroundings aren't able to cope with the amount of traffic that's heading that way.

Edit.

Me and my dad are still going to Zandvoort on Friday, just to see the mayhem that will definitely unfold. We're taking the Berlingo with the 2 Jawa's in the back to somewhere near Heemstede, and drive the mopeds to Zandvoort. 15-20 Kilometers. I'll try to remind myself to take pictures of the chaos.
 
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MatskiMonk

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I went to Zandvoort for the DTM, a fraction of the number of spectators that F1 gets...

Here is where I parked, and my walk to the circuit...

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.. even for DTM the circuit's own parking was reserved for teams and hospitality, the only public parking was the beachfront Pay & Display, which was full, and €15 for the day IIRC, via a machine that didn't communicate in English (or seemingly accept English debit/credit cards), resulting in the need for lots of Cash/Coins to feed the machines (IF you found a space), for the duration of the weekend.

I love Zandvoort as a venue, but scaling up from 10-20,000 people to F1 levels of attendance is going to be catastrophic.
 

Dennisch

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They want people to come on bicycle, by bus and train. There will be 12 trains per hour going to Zandvoort, and there will be an enormous amount of busses driving in the region.
 
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Because there aren't any decent parking lots in the dunes. Zandvoort goes in lockdown for the weekend. And Heemstede, Haarlem and surroundings aren't able to cope with the amount of traffic that's heading that way.
So in the end they were ill prepared?
 

Dennisch

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So in the end they were ill prepared?
I remember years ago when Schumacher came to Zandvoort with Ferrari for a exhibition day, could be the Marlboro Masters. That day was about the same as I experienced in Spa Saturday. But without the rain. Zandvoort will forever be a traffic jam on busy days. They will never allow either of the roads to be widened or a new road to cut through the dunes.

But this time there is some sort of preparation for the traffic, they just don't let you into Zandvoort by car. You're parking 20 kilometers away and you take the bus, train or bike. But, it's still 70000 people moving that way, on roads that are already congested, and as the weather seems to be great in the weekend, there are also people going to the beach. I'll turn on the traffic info on Google Maps Friday, and post the red lines here.
 
5,229
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virtualnao
I remember years ago when Schumacher came to Zandvoort with Ferrari for a exhibition day, could be the Marlboro Masters. That day was about the same as I experienced in Spa Saturday. But without the rain. Zandvoort will forever be a traffic jam on busy days. They will never allow either of the roads to be widened or a new road to cut through the dunes.

But this time there is some sort of preparation for the traffic, they just don't let you into Zandvoort by car. You're parking 20 kilometers away and you take the bus, train or bike. But, it's still 70000 people moving that way, on roads that are already congested, and as the weather seems to be great in the weekend, there are also people going to the beach. I'll turn on the traffic info on Google Maps Friday, and post the red lines here.
I believe they were planning to have the trains run every five minutes on the line to Zandvoort, causing delays everywhere else.

It's crazy.
 

Dennisch

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I believe they were planning to have the trains run every five minutes on the line to Zandvoort, causing delays everywhere else.

It's crazy.
Yes. 12 per hour. Bernhard and Friends are screwing over so many people with everything they've done to get F1 back to Zandvoort, that it's almost unethical to even spend a cent on a ticket.
 

Blitz24

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Yes. 12 per hour. Bernhard and Friends are screwing over so many people with everything they've done to get F1 back to Zandvoort, that it's almost unethical to even spend a cent on a ticket.
So then, by all logic, this will go poorly and everyone will regret it?