Formula 1 Heineken Grande Prêmio De São Paulo 2021Formula 1 

  • Thread starter Jimlaad43
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Watch as they say the footage is not significant or relevant enough.
Probably. As I expected, it really doesn't show us anything new except the lack of malicious intent which never mattered anyway. The other angles were already very clear in showing HAM being forced off the track by a car that itself was going to quickly to stay on track. Which in turn is also gaining a lasting advantage.

If they somehow decided from the other angles HAM wasn't forced off and VER didn't gain a lasting advantage going off, then I can't see them changing their minds now.
 
11,342
United Kingdom
West Yorkshire
Tired_Tyres
Bothered to watch the highlights on C4 and saw an obvious manoeuvre from Max to drive his opponent off the track. Should be sent to the back of the grid next race. What will happen is nothing.

Glad I hardly follow F1 anymore. I've watched one live race and four highlight races. They have to do something about run off tarmac and driver behaviour.
 
3,675
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PaMu1337


Palmers analysis on the incident. A video by F1 itself that also agrees there should have been a penalty
 
2,543
Honestly, everyone complaining about a bit of hard racing. Then next week everyone will complain that there's no overtaking. I guess some people will never be satisfied.

The Verstappen onboard footage clearly shows that he didn't open the steering. So in the end what happened was they were both fighting hard for the position, Verstappen had right of way on the inside and overcooked the braking point ever so slightly and ran wide. No contact, nobody in the fence, move on.
 
601
Canada
Canada
Honestly, everyone complaining about a bit of hard racing. Then next week everyone will complain that there's no overtaking. I guess some people will never be satisfied.

The Verstappen onboard footage clearly shows that he didn't open the steering. So in the end what happened was they were both fighting hard for the position, Verstappen had right of way on the inside and overcooked the braking point ever so slightly and ran wide. No contact, nobody in the fence, move on.
Was Silverstone hard racing too?
 
1,635
Australia
Melbourne
Honestly, everyone complaining about a bit of hard racing. Then next week everyone will complain that there's no overtaking. I guess some people will never be satisfied.

The Verstappen onboard footage clearly shows that he didn't open the steering. So in the end what happened was they were both fighting hard for the position, Verstappen had right of way on the inside and overcooked the braking point ever so slightly and ran wide. No contact, nobody in the fence, move on.
There are other ways to influence the trajectory of the car such as with braking. Also if he cooked the tires and went off the shows he wasn't in control of the car and in doing so caused another driver to take evasive action. Just on that basis he needs to be penalised and then we can all move on. If not that will set a dangerous precedent. Mercedes could then use Bottas for example to become a moving wall and take Max on an outfield excursion. Would that be fair in your eyes?
 
24,192
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Honestly, everyone complaining about a bit of hard racing. Then next week everyone will complain that there's no overtaking. I guess some people will never be satisfied.

The Verstappen onboard footage clearly shows that he didn't open the steering. So in the end what happened was they were both fighting hard for the position, Verstappen had right of way on the inside and overcooked the braking point ever so slightly and ran wide. No contact, nobody in the fence, move on.
1. Racing happens on the track, not off it.
2. No, VER did not have the "right of way". HAM was wholly ahead before they braked. VER only caught back up because he hit the brakes 15m after HAM. Too late.
3. The only reason there wasn't contact is because HAM took avoiding action, forced off the track.
4. If that is the attitude you/FIA take then in that case you can say goodbye to any overtakes on most circuits. Whenever anyone is in VERs position they'll just do the same, move to the inside and force the other car off, and nobody will ever get past except on straights with DRS before they get to the corner. LEC has already alluded to the fact that if what VER did is deemed fine, then he's going to be changing his style going forward. It's a very bad precedent to set.

Rules exist in racing for a reason, and the rules say you can't crowd another car off the track. They also say you can't go off the track yourself and gain a lasting advantage. VER did both, pretty clearly.
 
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24,192
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No, Hamilton ran into Verstappen and sent him into the wall at speed. Slight difference
Only because VER didn't back out like HAM did. If HAM stayed on his line in Brazil, VER would have obviously hit him.

It's about actions, not outcomes. FIA have said that many, many times, although it seems they don't always heed to it.
 
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Veinz

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Honestly, everyone complaining about a bit of hard racing. Then next week everyone will complain that there's no overtaking. I guess some people will never be satisfied.

The Verstappen onboard footage clearly shows that he didn't open the steering. So in the end what happened was they were both fighting hard for the position, Verstappen had right of way on the inside and overcooked the braking point ever so slightly and ran wide. No contact, nobody in the fence, move on.
It’s the double standards that bug me the most.
 

McLaren

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LEC has already alluded to the fact that if what VER did is deemed fine, then he's going to be changing his style going forward. It's a very bad precedent to set.
I definitely had to look this up once you mentioned it. LeClerc strikes me as a young driver who's not afraid to speak up and at the same time, drive as aggressive as the rules allow him to.
Leclerc says if the stewards do not now sanction Verstappen he will adjust his driving, just as he did after his own incident with the Dutchman at the 2019 Austrian GP. On that occasion Verstappen went unpunished after forcing his way by and nudging Leclerc off the road in the closing laps of the race before going on to take victory.

"You always need to adapt to every situation, every decision the stewards are doing," said Leclerc. "As soon as I knew that it wasn't a penalty for Max in Austria, I came to Silverstone and I changed my driving. So I think that's a bit the same for every driver, we will always try to race at the limits of what we're allowed to do. And that's what I will do if in case these these things are allowed. Austria it was a bit of a different situation again, and after that we could race a bit harder, which I think was good for F1, for the show. This situation was another one. I'll leave it to the stewards to just see what they think."



Max had worn tires after 8 laps? F1.com shows his last pit was on lap 40.
 
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ROAD_DOGG33J

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holyc0w1
holyc0w
Honestly, everyone complaining about a bit of hard racing. Then next week everyone will complain that there's no overtaking. I guess some people will never be satisfied.
Verstappen's "move" prevented an overtake and he steamed off the track to do it.
 

Veinz

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Leclerc already showed that he adjusted his driving at Monza in 2019.
 
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Jimlaad43

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No, Hamilton ran into Verstappen and sent him into the wall at speed. Slight difference
So Hamilton should be punished because Max turned in AND Hamilton didn't run wide on the exit of the corner? Max's driving at Brazil was more likely to cause a collision, Lewis just has the brains to not turn in on someone overshooting the corner. If anything, Max's driving at Brazil needs the same penalty as Lewis at Silverstone (10 seconds), but he got away with no collision because the guy on the outside realised he had to pace to fight another day.
 
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Australia
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Racefans.net has just reported Mercedes has had their right to review denied. What a complete utter farce F1 is.

I hope Mercedes uses Bottas to dive bomb and force Max off track in the next three race starts. Then Hamilton will be able to get an advantage over Verstappen, it won't even be worth investigating, right?
 
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I saw Chris Medland's report on the decision. They avoided reviewing the incident completely.

So in a nutshell: onboard footage suddenly "isn't available". FIA makes a rushed decision and agrees that they could have used the footage. Days later the footage shows up and they deny the right to review the incident again.

Straight up corruption.

Masi also had a lot to say about Lewis setting an example for... taking off his seat belt after the race completed.
 
2,543
Not surprising at all that the right to review was denied. I know you guys are Hamilton fans, but there was nothing in it.

There are already too many penalties in this sport. Any more and we might as well race autonomous cars that all follow the perfect line and make no mistakes whatsoever.

The show goes on!
 
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DG Silva
Not surprising at all that the right to review was denied. I know you guys are Hamilton fans, but there was nothing in it.

There are already too many penalties in this sport. Any more and we might as well race autonomous cars that all follow the perfect line and make no mistakes whatsoever.

The show goes on!
For someone who is either anti-Hamilton or pro-Max, there is one clear thing you seem to ignore - the fact that Max put his car in a position where Hamilton was unable to take the corner, at all. This stops being fair racing and basically turns the sport into banger racing (as if Max hadn't done so already).

If the FIA and their stewards are saying that this type of action is fair under the 'Let them race' principle, then expect to see a lot more divebombs because the governing body have sanctioned it.
 
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2,543
For someone who is either anti-Hamilton or pro-Max, there is one clear thing you seem to ignore - the fact that Max put his car in a position where Hamilton was unable to take the corner, at all. This stops being fair racing and basically turns the sport into banger racing (as if Max hadn't done so already).

If the FIA and their stewards are saying that this type of action is fair under the 'Let them race' principle, then expect to see a lot more divebombs because the governing body have sanctioned it.
Equally, Hamilton could have backed out and not attempted to pass around the outside. It goes both ways. When they turned in, Max was ahead on the inside so had right of way. It's the risk you run