Formula 1 Pirelli British Grand Prix 2021Formula 1 

  • Thread starter Jimlaad43
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Next race I can see Verstappen trying to punt Hamilton off and completely botching it and taking both of them out. The gloves are off and Max is the kind of driver to go for revenge in a hotheaded way. I really hope this doesn't happen as it will tarnish reputations and look bad for everyone, but I won't be surprised if it happens.

TBH, knowing Hamilton he'd escape being punted at like T2 with a harmless spin while Max's wheel breaks off.
 
Nessy
I think they were wrong in issuing the penalty (initially so), as it looks like a racing incident, to me, (50/50 blame). However, i can appreciate why they possibly came to that decision, and although i stand by my belief that it was no more than a racing incident, they're the actual stewards, not me.
I think ultimately everyone just wants to see consistency with regards to steward judgements/penalties issued, and in that same token, i'd like to think Max would be issued the same exact penalty, if the roles were reversed in that situation.

Personally i don't think it's worth making an appeal or petition in this instance, as really there's nothing to gain from it, (IMO).

So are you suggesting it would've been impossible for him (Max) to lift at all?
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on full fuel its a lift regardless

Jimlaad43
Next race I can see Verstappen trying to punt Hamilton off and completely botching it and taking both of them out. The gloves are off and Max is the kind of driver to go for revenge in a hotheaded way. I really hope this doesn't happen as it will tarnish reputations and look bad for everyone, but I won't be surprised if it happens.

TBH, knowing Hamilton he'd escape being punted at like T2 with a harmless spin while Max's wheel breaks off.
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This is a stupid thing to say, Verstappen raced him fairly to say he will now just take him out is silly considering he wasn't mostly at fault for the collision. a Championship is at stake here he might be aggressive but he isn't stupid.
 
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Nessy
That really doesn't answer my question to you, of whether it was impossible for Max to lift at all.
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I think it does, Max would of had to lift to do the corner and Hamilton would of had to lift much more which he didn't.
 
mustafur
🤣 This is a stupid thing to say, Verstappen raced him fairly to say he will now just take him out is silly considering he wasn't mostly at fault for the collision. a Championship is at stake here he might be aggressive but he isn't stupid.

Edit: apologies for double post.
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Yeah I'm aware that its something none of us want to happen, but I'm just throwing it out there so I can say I called it if it happens. But seeing how Max and Red Bull reacted, they'll need to have a mental reset and a look at the incident from an unbiased perspective to realise it wasn't deliberate or they'll just be fuming all Hungary GP. But going on history and Max's aggressive driving in the past, I wouldn't put it past him to be even more unforgiving - to his own detriment - next time they're wheel to wheel.
 
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Jimlaad43
Yeah I'm aware that its something none of us want to happen, but I'm just throwing it out there so I can say I called it if it happens. But seeing how Max and Red Bull reacted, they'll need to have a mental reset and a look at the incident from an unbiased perspective to realise it wasn't deliberate or they'll just be fuming all Hungary GP. But going on history and Max's aggressive driving in the past, I wouldn't put it past him to be even more unforgiving - to his own detriment - next time they're wheel to wheel.
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I think most will say it's not deliberate(I think this way atleast), but there was an at fault in it that's all. I'll be honest from Max's history I was surprised he allowed the racing room to begin with considering Spain for example, but Hungary is a more straight forward track for attack and defence so I'll be surprised if there is a collision.
 
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mustafur
I think it does, Max would of had to lift to do the corner and Hamilton would of had to lift much more which he didn't.
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If that's the case then, why say what you said in your previous post to that? (the quote below. I've bolded the part i'm referring to)
mustafur
given the corner though you can't expect him to go wider the amount of speed he would lost by lifting is just not realistic, because if anything his line was wider then even leclercs, hamilton entered that corner just too wide to allow anything else.
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Personally, i believe both drivers could've lifted, but it appears neither of them did to the extent of yielding the corner. So for me, it's nothing more than a racing incident, both sharing equal blame.
 
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Nessy
If that's the case then, why say what you said in your previous post to that? (the quote below. I've bolded the part i'm referring to)

Personally, i believe both drivers could've lifted, but it appears neither of them did to the extent of yielding the corner. So for me, it's nothing more than a racing incident, both sharing equal blame.
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I guess I could of worded it better, but it's a flat corner in qual a slight lift with fuel Max would of had to lift a bit more then usual given his wider entry, but I don't think that was in the equation given what Hamilton did, Hamilton had room there Max took the lerclerc line which was fair to allow room and still have a chance at holding position, it's not equal blame due to the fact Hamilton had the room availble but was too far from the apex due to the fact he had too much speed into the corner.
 
Nessy
I think they were wrong in issuing the penalty (initially so), as it looks like a racing incident, to me, (50/50 blame). However, i can appreciate why they possibly came to that decision, and although i stand by my belief that it was no more than a racing incident, they're the actual stewards, not me.
I think ultimately everyone just wants to see consistency with regards to steward judgements/penalties issued, and in that same token, i'd like to think Max would be issued the same exact penalty, if the roles were reversed in that situation.

Personally i don't think it's worth making an appeal or petition in this instance, as really there's nothing to gain from it, (IMO).
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Does Lewis now accrue points against his license?

If the roles were reversed - and I expect them to be at some time during the remainder of the season - I doubt Max will hesitate to send Lewis into the barriers, providing he doesn't break his wheel like Lewis did to his, and that he doesn't accrue a license infraction. Then things will be all good and square again, and they can go forward as friendly, professional rivals.
 
Dotini
Does Lewis now accrue points against his license?

If the roles were reversed - and I expect them to be at some time during the remainder of the season - I doubt Max will hesitate to send Lewis into the barriers, providing he doesn't break his wheel like Lewis did to his, and that he doesn't accrue a license infraction. Then things will be all good and square again, and they can go forward as friendly, professional rivals.
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I don't think Max will hold back on the aggression, he has seen in the last few years the domination of Mercedes and knows that it can easily turn to Mercedes favour with the car he has to go 100% for this atleast at the stage we know right now.
 
ignoring the collision which clearly took a shine off the victory, that was a really excellent drive by Hamilton and the passes on Norris and Leclerc into Copse were epic.
 
Jimlaad43
ignoring the collision which clearly took a shine off the victory, that was a really excellent drive by Hamilton and the passes on Norris and Leclerc into Copse were epic.
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I have to agree, his pass on Leclerc after what happened with Verstappen required balls. all was on the line given he was making a huge dent on the points even without a win.
 
mustafur
This is a stupid thing to say, Verstappen raced him fairly to say he will now just take him out is silly considering he wasn't mostly at fault for the collision. a Championship is at stake here he might be aggressive but he isn't stupid.
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Well, who knows? Just a few pages ago Verstappen was being called the dirtiest driver on the grid for being punted off the track by the race winner and current championship runner-up who benefited most from the accident.


Maybe NASCAR is what some people actually want, so long as their guy is the one who benefits from it.
 
Jimlaad43
ignoring the collision which clearly took a shine off the victory, that was a really excellent drive by Hamilton and the passes on Norris and Leclerc into Copse were epic.
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Leclerc is fair but Norris got right out of the way.
 
Samus
It was when they accused him of doing it deliberately that they went too far
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Meh. Passions remain high and someone even brought up Senna in this thread as part of the conversation, nevermind the early Schumacher years. Whether or not in this specific context at that specific corner it makes any sense to accuse Hamilton of deliberately causing what happened when you think about it, it's not as if the mere allegation is some horrific unheard of besmirchment on the sport's honor.
 
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I don't want to think that Max would deliberately take out Lewis the next time they go wheel to wheel. However I can see him get even more aggressive by not giving Lewis any racing space or just push him off the track completely....which he's done in the past.

I don't want to watch this championship go down with the winner being the driver who crashed out and DNF less often because they both refuse to back down regardless of the situation....I hope it would not get to that but Lewis saying that he will no longer stand for Max bullying and knowing Max' aggression....I just can't help but think that the remaining races are just going to be a crash fest and full of needless controversies. I really hope I'm wrong.
 
andrea
I guees that Toto's email was ready before the race.
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Right. No point further discussing it with you then.
Tornado
Meh. Passions remain high and someone even brought up Senna in this thread as part of the conversation, nevermind the early Schumacher years. Whether or not in this specific context at that specific corner it makes any sense to accuse Hamilton of deliberately causing what happened when you think about it, it's not as if the mere allegation is some horrific unheard of besmirchment on the sport's honor.
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Well true, I'm not outraged or anything, it's still just a team principle running their mouth in the end, I just think that accusing him of deliberate malice at nearly 200mph definitely went a step further. But as you say, it was in the heat of the moment and AFAIK he hasn't repeated the insinuation.

HAM is many things but someone who would purposely hit a rival at 195mph knowing the possible consequences he isn't. As many, many people have already said including myself this incident boils down to two racers who would not back out of situation that was always going to lead to some sort of incident unless one of them did.
 
SlowGrayAudi
Is no one going to comment on how pathetically slow Bottas is in the sister Merc? **** me he needs to be fired! like right now. Lews was lapping over 1s/lap quicker than him.

Give Russel that goddam seat!!!
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Bottas being slower than Hamilton is more the norm than the exception. What was surprising is that he yielded without kinda-sorta fighting like he had in prior races.

Also, he's ahead of Perez in drivers points right now which I didn't even realize until now. Best way to realistically keep his seat is to keep outscoring Perez with consistent finishes.
 
OutlawQuadrnt
Bottas being slower than Hamilton is more the norm than the exception. What was surprising is that he yielded without kinda-sorta fighting like he had in prior races.

Also, he's ahead of Perez in drivers points right now which I didn't even realize until now. Best way to realistically keep his seat is to keep outscoring Perez with consistent finishes.
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Team order sounded pretty short and direct to let Lewis by. I think after the day Merc. was having with Red Bull, Bottas didn't want to do anything that might incur the wrath of an already agitated Toto?
 
OutlawQuadrnt
Bottas being slower than Hamilton is more the norm than the exception. What was surprising is that he yielded without kinda-sorta fighting like he had in prior races.

Also, he's ahead of Perez in drivers points right now which I didn't even realize until now. Best way to realistically keep his seat is to keep outscoring Perez with consistent finishes.
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I think by now he probably understands that he is not really in this championship battle so his job is to help Lewis and Mercedes beat Max and Red Bull and that it's probably best for him to do as he told to increase his chances of keeping that seat next year....although I think at this point, I'd be shocked if Russell is not in that seat for 2022.

Bottas seems to have no pace to keep up with Hamilton and Verstappen regardless of where they are racing. I think this season has probably been his worst so far.
 
McLaren
Team order sounded pretty short and direct to let Lewis by. I think after the day Merc. was having with Red Bull, Bottas didn't want to do anything that might incur the wrath of an already agitated Toto?
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He probably had an uncomfortable meeting with Toto after Barcelona, where he forced Lewis to overtake him for the chase on Verstappen instead of just letting him by and then stating in interviews that he "was going to run his own race". I imagine that didn't sit well with Toto who explained to Bottas what his priorities should be if he cares at all about what he drives next year.
 
Lewis got 2 penalty points for the crash, just like Kimi in Austria colliding with Seb. He is on 4p now (2 from entering pits in Monza under closed pits in 2020, they will disappear in 2 month 1y after the incident)

motorsport com has a overview: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/standings/2021/?type=Driver&class=Penalty+points

but only in German with detailed infos what and when happened: https://de.motorsport.com/f1/news/formel-1-strafpunkte-das-ist-der-aktuelle-stand/4348043/

ppoi.JPG
 
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