Formula 1 Pirelli Gran Premio d'Italia 2025Formula 1

[Bram Turismo]

McLaren again with their shenanigans here.
Seeing Max win here reminded me of his 2023 dominance. Considering how good the Mclaren has been this season, it's crazy to think that they got beat by almost 20 seconds.

Yes and no.

I have no idea why Mclaren didn't react to Verstappen pitstop. They were really only 6 seconds adrift, which is the actual true margin on pace. Their strategy on running 40+ lap on a set of tyres... No idea what they were trying to do with that.

 

[AshenGraey]

Yes and no.

I have no idea why Mclaren didn't react to Verstappen pitstop. They were really only 6 seconds adrift, which is the actual true margin on pace. Their strategy on running 40+ lap on a set of tyres... No idea what they were trying to do with that.

That may be true and I don't disagree with that but the pace difference between Max and the McLaren was fairly straightforward. I think even if they did pit after Max did, Max probably would have been able to get a good 10-15 seconds on them by the end. He was still putting in purple sectors with tires that looked shredded.

 

[Bosso]

How will Gen Z cope.

I'm kind of confused by your comment. Surely you want dominant teams to allow both their drivers a shot at the title. As a viewer wouldn't that be more interesting?

 

[Bosso]

That may be true and I don't disagree with that but the pace difference between Max and the McLaren was fairly straightforward. I think even if they did pit after Max did, Max probably would have been able to get a good 10-15 seconds on them by the end. He was still putting in purple sectors with tires that looked shredded.

Track specific. Monza is a very unique track that some teams put all their eggs into the basket just to win.

 

[MagpieRacer]

I'm kind of confused by your comment. Surely you want dominant teams to allow both their drivers a shot at the title. As a viewer wouldn't that be more interesting?

It was a reference to making Monza a longer race after this week's news about F1 considering shorter races.

If you read any of my posts you will see I'm pro drivers fighting for titles and anti teams telling drivers to move aside for no real reason.

 

[Bosso]

It was a reference to making Monza a longer race after this week's news about F1 considering shorter races.

If you read any of my posts you will see I'm pro drivers fighting for titles and anti teams telling drivers to move aside for no real reason.

My apologies. I didn't see that in the news actually. If that's true then it's completely crazy akin to cricket when they introduced the 100 just to appease the short attention spanned 'fans'. I also think they need to widen the working temperature range of the tyres, as that narrow window is only hampering the full capability of the drivers; 2009 and 2010 tyres had the perfect formula for tyres.

 

[Fezzik]

Bearman is up to 10 penalty points. Not totally sure when any are due to expire, looks like after next 4 races, but for now he’s really at risk of a ban.

 

[Dennisch]

McLaren and Lando become more unlikable by the race. What a ******** team order, and Lando not speaking anymore after the pit stop.

Piastri should say **** you with your Papaya rules.

 

[GlamFM]

McLaren and Lando become more unlikable by the race. What a ******** team order, and Lando not speaking anymore after the pit stop.

Piastri should say **** you with your Papaya rules.

Oscar got the same treatment when they let Lando undercut him for race reasons last year in Hungary. I don’t get the outrage tbh.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Oscar got the same treatment when they let Lando undercut him for race reasons last year in Hungary. I don’t get the outrage tbh.

Piastri is leading the championship. It's a somewhat different scenario to Hungary last year, very significantly.

What I want to see if McLaren win the constructors at Baku, and then let the 2 cars run effectively as individual teams, let them get on with it, devise their own strategies and race plans, no team orders or interference. Constructors sewn up, now let them race for themselves with no interference.

Will that happen? I don't know, but it would be good to see McLaren put their money where their mouth is.

 

[GlamFM]

Piastri is leading the championship. It's a somewhat different scenario to Hungary last year, very significantly.

How so? Last year Lando was in the battle for the WDC and Oscar was not - they still made Lando give his place to Oscar. Same thing happened today.
Guess it sucks when this happens to your favorite driver, but McLaren are consistent here.

 

[MagpieRacer]

How so? Last year Lando was in the battle for the WDC and Oscar was not - they still made Lando give his place to Oscar. Same thing happened today.
Guess it sucks when this happens to your favorite driver, but McLaren are consistent here.

I didn't agree with the call last year anyway, my criticism last year was Landos bad attitude towards it. But it is a different situation still. Lando was only just in a WDC fight at Hungary last year, Piastri, at the point of the pit stop in this race, had a 34 point lead in said championship. The 2 scenarios are simply not comparable and to say otherwise shows your own bias.

Team orders suck full stop, they doubly suck when it impacts the championship and they triple suck when the driver shows poor attitude.

 

[GlamFM]

I didn't agree with the call last year anyway, my criticism last year was Landos bad attitude towards it. But it is a different situation still. Lando was only just in a WDC fight at Hungary last year, Piastri, at the point of the pit stop in this race, had a 34 point lead in said championship. The 2 scenarios are simply not comparable and to say otherwise shows your own bias.

Team orders suck full stop, they doubly suck when it impacts the championship and they triple suck when the driver shows poor attitude.

Don’t let Oscar undercut Lando then. First driver in the race gets the first pitstop. If Oscar loses his 3rd place so be it.

I also insist that the situations are absolutely comparable, but you seem a bit emotional about it so allow me to back out of this.

Enjoy the rest of your Sunday though <3

 

[MagpieRacer]

Don’t let Oscar undercut Lando then. First driver in the race gets the first pitstop. If Oscar loses his 3rd place so be it.

Lando conceded the first pitstop to Piastri 🤡.

I should also stress that the my criticism lies at McLaren's feet not Landos. They gave him the option on the stop and he also didn't ask to swap back after it. It's all McLaren.

 

[Veinz]

Norris is the one who told them to pit Piastri first. He made that call to benefit himself and ended up getting a bad pit stop. That’s not Piastri’s problem. Leclerc was not a threat either.

The whole thing is just laughable. I wonder if Ron Dennis watches these races? I’d love to know what he thinks of papaya rules.

 

[GlamFM]

He made that call to benefit himself

He made that call to help Oscar against Charles because (he thought) he was clear.

How very nice of Lando.

The only difference is that they screwed up his pitstop - the outcome however was exactly the same as it was last year in Hungary. And just like last year they swapped the positions back after the pitstop.

Your guy will win the WDC regardless so everybody chill?

 

[Veinz]

He made that call to help Oscar against Charles because (he thought) he was clear.

How very nice of Lando.

The only difference is that they screwed up his pitstop - the outcome however was exactly the same as it was last year in Hungary. And just like last year they swapped the positions back after the pitstop.

Your guy will win the WDC regardless so everybody chill?

The pit wall told him he was safe from an undercut and the risk of Piastri gaining anything from a safety car was gone, plus his tires would be slightly fresher. That's why he made that call, it was 100% to benefit himself. Leclerc was not a threat to Piatri, that's bs.

There is no guarentee about the WDC, there are still alot of points left on the table. 31 point gap isn't that much right now.

 

[GlamFM]

The pit wall told him he was safe from an undercut and the risk of Piastri gaining anything from a safety car was gone, plus his tires would be slightly fresher. Thats why he made that call, it was 100% to benefit himself. Leclerc was not a threat to Piatri, that's bs.

“We are boxing the cars this way around to ensure we cover Leclerc.”

Is word for word what McLaren told Oscar. But what do they know.

Lando said he was ok with it. He didn’t ask for it. He said it was fine if it doesn’t put him in danger. It was never to his advantage.

 

[Veinz]

“We are boxing the cars this way around to ensure we cover Leclerc.”

Is word for word what McLaren told Oscar. But what do they know.

Lando said he was ok with it. He didn’t ask for it. He said it was fine if it doesn’t put him in danger. It was never to his advantage.

Leclerc was barely gaining any ground until the pit stop, and Piastri still came out 6 seconds ahead. He was ok with it because there was no threat of an undercut, and no threat of losing out because of a SC.

It's nice that McLaren are trying to keep it as fair as possible, but they're walking a fine line and making themselves look silly in the process.

 

[Abyss1]

He made that call to help Oscar against Charles because (he thought) he was clear.

How very nice of Lando.

The only difference is that they screwed up his pitstop - the outcome however was exactly the same as it was last year in Hungary. And just like last year they swapped the positions back after the pitstop.

Your guy will win the WDC regardless so everybody chill?

Yea it’s like everybody knows Oscars got this years WDC…I agree people do need to chill on the lando vs Oscar drama

Good drive from max, was actually surprised at how well he drove this weekend against the McLarens

 

[Dennisch]

I'm starting to think that they swapped positions to keep Lando mentally in check, last week when he blew his engine, his engineer came on the radio telling him 20 times that he was fast all weekend instead of every other engineer going "sorry mate, better luck next time, this is racing".

 

[GlamFM]

I'm starting to think that they swapped positions to keep Lando mentally in check, last week when he blew his engine, his engineer came on the radio telling him 20 times that he was fast all weekend instead of every other engineer going "sorry mate, better luck next time, this is racing".

Absolute nonsense. All of it.

 

[Rangeraus]

Yea it’s like everybody knows Oscars got this years WDC

I don't understand this argument at all. In 2007, Kimi Raikkonen was the equivalent of 42.5 points behind Lewis Hamilton with two rounds remaining... and won. By comparison, Oscar is 31 points in front with eight rounds remaining. It only takes 1 race for that to be back to a single-point gap.

“We are boxing the cars this way around to ensure we cover Leclerc.”

Is word for word what McLaren told Oscar. But what do they know.

Lando said he was ok with it. He didn’t ask for it. He said it was fine if it doesn’t put him in danger. It was never to his advantage.

Leclerc was only going 0.1-0.2 seconds per lap faster than the McLarens on new tyres, he was not at serious risk of undercutting Piastri.

If Oscar pitted second and benefitted from a VSC immediately after Lando stopped, he would come out several seconds in front of Lando, with newer tyres. Lando would have been aware of this.

Whereas if Lando stopped after Oscar and lucked into a VSC, he'd come out in front of Oscar and be much closer to Max.
That meant there was a risk that Oscar could undercut him, but the team assured Lando that would not happen. But obviously with the long pitstop, that happened anyway.

I find it jarring that we are in a situation where a team is acting as the arbiters of what is a "fair" way to for their title-contending drivers to benefit from situations that are completely out of their control... and that they will move to rectify those situations when it happens. To be honest I think it's a bit insulting to the audience, most of whom pay good money to view or attend these events.

 

[GlamFM]

I don't understand this argument at all. In 2007, Kimi Raikkonen was the equivalent of 42.5 points behind Lewis Hamilton with two rounds remaining... and won. By comparison, Oscar is 31 points in front with eight rounds remaining. It only takes 1 race for that to be back to a single-point gap.


Leclerc was only going 0.1-0.2 seconds per lap faster than the McLarens on new tyres, he was not at serious risk of undercutting Piastri.

If Oscar pitted second and benefitted from a VSC immediately after Lando stopped, he would come out several seconds in front of Lando, with newer tyres. Lando would have been aware of this.

Whereas if Lando stopped after Oscar and lucked into a VSC, he'd come out in front of Oscar and be much closer to Max.
That meant there was a risk that Oscar could undercut him, but the team assured Lando that would not happen. But obviously with the long pitstop, that happened anyway.

I find it jarring that we are in a situation where a team is acting as the arbiters of what is a "fair" way to for their title-contending drivers to benefit from situations that are completely out of their control... and that they will move to rectify those situations when it happens. To be honest I think it's a bit insulting to the audience, most of whom pay good money to view or attend these events.

It's irrelevant if you think protecting Oscar from Charles was neccessary or not - this is why they did and thereby gave Oscar the undercut on Lando.

They asked Lando if that was ok since he was the lead car (between the two) and the lead car usually gets the first stop. Lando said fine as long as that doesn't put him at risk.

Unfortunately they messed up his pit stop and the time Lando lost in the pits + the time Oscar gained through the undercut meant Oscar came through.

The slow pitstop alone wasn't enough - the undercut played a part.

The comparisons to Hungary 2024 are fair imo. I didn't like it back then, but by now it's pretty clear that this is how McLaren races and I respect the consistency. They like their racing on track and not in the pits.

I see your flag and I'm aware that Oscar has gotten very popular, but people need to be a bit more objective here imo.

Side note: Max throwing shade is hilarious to me considering he is consistently being waved through by 3 different cars when the situation calls for it throughout his career.

 

[Fezzik]

Piastri is leading the championship. It's a somewhat different scenario to Hungary last year, very significantly.

What I want to see if McLaren win the constructors at Baku, and then let the 2 cars run effectively as individual teams, let them get on with it, devise their own strategies and race plans, no team orders or interference. Constructors sewn up, now let them race for themselves with no interference.

Will that happen? I don't know, but it would be good to see McLaren put their money where their mouth is.

Based on Stella's comments after the race I wouldn't hold my breath for any hands-off approach from the pit wall even up to the final race.

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2025/09/07/mclaren-admits-oscar-piastri-and-lando-norris-f1-sportsmanship-could-end/

When asked for his reaction to Piastri’s compliance to race engineer Tom Stallard’s request, Stella revealed he was certain in the Australian would heed the request.


“Well, it’s an interesting question,” he told media including Motorsport Week. “For some reason, as soon as Tom asked Oscar, I knew Oscar was going to do it.


“I think that’s the quality of the individuals behind the drivers that we have at McLaren. It’s the foundation of the way we go racing.


“If it’s the last race in Abu Dhabi, will we see the same? I can’t say, but at the moment I’m just very proud that these things happen, that Lando and Oscar go racing like they do.

 

[Rangeraus]

It's irrelevant if you think protecting Oscar from Charles was neccessary or not - this is why they did and thereby gave Oscar the undercut on Lando.

They asked Lando if that was ok since he was the lead car (between the two) and the lead car usually gets the first stop. Lando said fine as long as that doesn't put him at risk.

Unfortunately they messed up his pit stop and the time Lando lost in the pits + the time Oscar gained through the undercut meant Oscar came through.

The slow pitstop alone wasn't enough - the undercut played a part.

My issue is that they don't simply make a decision and accept that there are risks that come with that decision.

Instead, they make it needlessly complicated by asking their driver/s what decision they want, ask or get told the conditions for which that decision is acceptable, then (importantly) act as a guarantor for that decision. But, as is true with motor racing and all live sport, no one can predict or control all of the circumstances. So then they end up in a position where they have to decide whether to manipulate the race order to 'correct' the decision and the guarantee that they made... even if the other driver had nothing to do with those circumstances.

It is really not necessary for them to do this and if you try to explain this situation to someone who does not follow the sport, it does start to feel a bit absurd.

 

[GlamFM]

My issue is that they don't simply make a decision and accept that there are risks that come with that decision.

Instead, they make it needlessly complicated by asking their driver/s what decision they want, ask or get told the conditions for which that decision is acceptable, then (importantly) act as a guarantor for that decision. But, as is true with motor racing and all live sport, no one can predict or control all of the circumstances. So then they end up in a position where they have to decide whether to manipulate the race order to 'correct' the decision and the guarantee that they made... even if the other driver had nothing to do with those circumstances.

It is really not necessary for them to do this and if you try to explain this situation to someone who does not follow the sport, it does start to feel a bit absurd.

So you also think Lando should have kept the lead last year in Hungary?

 

[MagpieRacer]

So you also think Lando should have kept the lead last year in Hungary?

Yes. Because he was closer to Max in the title fight. It's an obvious answer. McLaren are stupid in how they do things. What made Hungary even more sour last year was Landos reaction. But it was a reaction to something he shouldn't have been asked to do anyway.

 

[GlamFM]

Yes. Because he was closer to Max in the title fight. It's an obvious answer. McLaren are stupid in how they do things. What made Hungary even more sour last year was Landos reaction. But it was a reaction to something he shouldn't have been asked to do anyway.

You do you. I don't want the title fight between two teammates to be decided by undercuts. I like the thing where they race.

 

[MagpieRacer]

You do you. I don't want the title fight between two teammates to be decided by undercuts. I like the thing where they race.

"Race". You mean after they've been asked about pitstops, done the stop and then get told to swap places and then "free to race" on circuits that are notoriously difficult to overtake on, particularly in the same cars.

Nah. The race as a whole is lights to flag, put stops and strategies included. Why bother otherwise.l, may as well just let them take turns winning and then reverse the outcome next season.