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Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Terronium-12
- 14,189 comments
- 1,417,889 views
- 2,191
- MI
Livid is a good word to use. Irate. Maybe seething.
Seriously though. If you can't even test your own mess then why release it. They've tarnished their name further than it can be repaired in my opinion. Who in their right mind would even buy another Forza Motorsport after this? And the icing on the cake is that it's radio silence. They pretend and act as if it's it's no big issue at all. They should have never released this. It simply wasn't ready. Or they just didn't care. Either way, I guess I'm in it for the long haul or they need to start dishing out refunds because blatantly lying to your whole customer base is NOT a good look or practice.
I'm envious of you.
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- 1,964
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- 1,202
- India
Fh5 has a double update (dec + jan). Does that mean Fm is also going to have a 8 week update 3.0 (or 3.0 +4.0 in one update)?
One more thing is that credits are tough to come by, especially when some weekly series need 200k+, like the speed series. Too broke to start it. There's not much left to say that isn't said already, but they better work harder and faster.
From what i remember, FH5 (and its online, atleast with friends) was fully operational for me by mid December, so i had no "issues" relating to performance and stability. At the time, the only issue was that the Playlist had rewards at 80% or something like that, and they were mostly recycled.
FM doesn't have the recycling problem yet (or maybe it does, we just cant notice it with all the other issues). The physics are fine, but they kinda forgot the rest of the game.
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- Belgium
Because of the red ground that looked very familiar to the one in Hakone. But after seeing the full image that Nukleabomb posted its clear that it was just Catalunya.
McLaren
Premium
- 45,108
- Texas
Running into this issue as well.
Ironic given the whole purpose of decreasing all the car prices was to make all the cars more accessible. But, 20-30,000cr. payouts is a bit shallow as well.
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I think the radio silence is one of the things that irks me the most about this whole debacle. They've shipped a game that isn't very great and instead of trying to talk about it they've decided ignoring all criticism is the best thing to do. I'm not sure if they're in a position to give a roadmap but...it'd be really nice to have one and it would restore a little bit of confidence in the game for me.
I'm also just wondering how so many of the returning cars have so many off looking materials and other bugs, what in the world is happening in their QA process? I'm not going to try to make guesses or act like I know how any of this works, because I don't, I am just very genuinely curious as to what's going on over at T10 right now.
- 746
- Brazil
I think that depends of each, i had been racing in the infamous roadtrac with 15+ car grids
I had some issues in the infamous butstop chicane but the races had been fun so far
Also see the cars making the turn from behind in Series X somewhat looks VERY realistic, like the lights move in a way that is very simmilar to real life
Likely, MS likes to give holidays for everyone there, not just T10 or PG
But considering they need update A LOT on the game, ithink that T10 Holidays will be delayed a bit
This seems to be a general problem on MS, not just T10, with execption of Hi-Fi Rush (that was on polishing phases for a loooong time) all games failed HARD on QA
To make matters worst, instead of hire more QA, they decided send all QA to a single product (StarField) that ended up being pathetic anyways
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Pretty sure T10 were being praised earlier in this thread for their communication, but for those of us who have been around since the start I think this radio silence is no surprise at all. They tend to completely ignore issues and only address their existence once they have a fix. No transparency really.
It's hardly just T10 that are like this nowadays of course, as a lot of game studios do the same thing. Many blame MS for "leashing" them but then you have the guys at Undead Labs, also an MS studio, who are pretty great at communicating with their fanbase and being transparent about issues and what is being done. When they put out a patch they do a live stream going over each item on the patch notes and showing what was fixed/changed, and often explaining roughly what happened or why it was tough to fix or whatever. They also often openly acknowledge issues, and in the past have even put out videos on their channel acknowledging and explaining the issue, and telling you how to avoid it or workaround it until they can get a patch out for it. T10 meanwhile can't even make complete, clear patch notes as they often leave things out or just vaguely state "other issues fixed" instead of listing them.
Speaking of the returning cars, the "featured" car this week in the Veyron is screwed up. When you paint it, it only paints the doors, and when you go to put vinyls on it they can only go over the red/orange parts on most of the car. Funny how a car we have had in several titles can get its paintable areas so screwed up.
- 15,794
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
You don't realise the importance of controller vibration until it's gone. I picked up my black controller last night and noticed that the vibration was missing but I didn't worry about it that much. Then the batteries died so I switched over to my red controller and because the batteries had more power, the vibration worked and wow do you notice the difference immediately. It's so much easier to tell what's going on with the car when you get high quality tactile feedback. For a controller user like myself it's everything because it allows me to drive better and respond to what's going on faster. I feel more connected to the car, especially when compared to ACC which can feel rather dull sometimes.
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- MrCrynox
- Mr Crynox
Completely agree. Especially the triggers. I think the way it's implemented in FM is pretty perfect, very informative. When my rechargeable batteries start to die the triggers are the first thing to go and then I'm instantly making mistakes. For me the best part is the feeling on the brakes, you can get right to the edge of locking as you are dropping down the gearbox and as the speed drops have to adapt the pressure as you do so. A great feeling. This is the single biggest reason why I don't play the new WRC game as they have sadly omitted the vibration trigger function, (despite it being in DR1/2). I've simply grown used to this level of feedback and it's just not good enough when it's not there especially considering it came out in 2013 with XB1, for the life of me I don't understand why. Lazy devs I think, very poor show on them.
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- India
idk what radio silence everyone is talking about.
They clearly have been following the same 4 week schedule since 2017. They have a list of open issues that gets updated periodically too. They talk of the main fixes on the stream and put the full list everytime an update drops.
It is extremely comprehensive as well.
They havent been great at the updates but communication isn't really a weakness. Their marketing team was atrocious for sure, but this update announcements run all the way back from 2017 in the same pattern very consistently.
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what is the new track? Di we know already?
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- United States
No not yet. Minus any kind of leak we wont know until Monday. But guesses are always welcomed 😃
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Thats fine with me. I would love to see Daytona, Sebring, Long Beach, Rio or Bathurst return next.
I noticed that the trees become a moving blurry mess when your vehicle starts moving. When I turned the motion blur off I want it all off and normal wind movement is absolutely fine with me. I hope this next update is when they add the long overdue Motorcycle content (I can dream)
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Something interesting I guess.
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- Western Provinces
- GamerJean2022
- JeanMeow2022
I finally figured out what was crashing FM2023 on my main account. I know it'll sound really, really weird but when I unfriended my alt account due to the drivatar being way too fast on difficulty 3-4, it suddenly started working.
It's like being friends with my alt account for fun ended up confusing the profile selection or something.
It's like being friends with my alt account for fun ended up confusing the profile selection or something.
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Compared to the amount of options that are available in Freeplay, very little of it is touched in Builders Cup. People have pointed out there's not really a lot of racing car content in Builders Cup at all, it's very much road car focused. In a way Builders Cup is a very limited look at what this platform can do. What was the thinking behind that?
CE: I think that's a great question. When we were first envisioning how this game was actually gonna play out and the experiences that we really wanted to get right from day one, it was this production car experience and this race car experience. We were really intentional about making sure that while Builders Cup was focused on production cars from day one, it doesn't mean it can't include race cars in the future.But to really nail that core experience of taking a production car, modifying it over time, getting to know it, falling in love with it and watching it grow and feeling its progression, that was core to what we wanted to do with Builders Cup. We wanted to make sure that was as good as we can make it for launch.
Then on the other side, which was race cars, spec racing, GT, touring, that sort of thing was really focused in multiplayer. So that experience was just dialled in for what we assumed was very competitive, skill based players looking for a lot of great balanced competition, fair competition, and that's the arena we had created for multiplayer.
Now that was just to get those areas right from the start. And as you see, even on the first day, we started adding additional career content into Builders Cup that started to bridge that gap between focusing on production cars and then race cars over in multiplayer. So that first week we started unveiling our live content that actually did have race cars and race car content in the live content. And you'll see as we go forward, that will be a continued investment there to understand how we can bring more of the race car content into our career mode, and it may not even be Builders Cup at that point, right?
So to Dan's point that this is a platform and we can continue to invest in, we see how people are playing the game. We see how people are responding to things and asking for certain types of content and experiences. We know that players are asking for some more race car content within the actual career mode and you can see we've already started investing in some of that and we'll continue to respond and create that content over time. We just wanted to make sure that those experiences, the production car content, the race car content was just absolutely nailed in terms of its core from day one.
The game’s been available for a while now, what have been the big key bits of feedback you've been hearing from the audience?
DG: From a high level the thing that's been great to see is multiplayer has been exceptionally well received. I think we took the time to iterate on that. There was a [development] team playing on that early on, so actually our Racers Cup loop has been largely in place for years. I mean, it's amazing in some ways, how long we've been playing that. And so it was nice to see the audience responding positively to the refinement that we put in.Now the Builders Cup and actually building those cars up. As I mentioned we're trying to hark back to that Forza Motorsport 3, Forza Motorsport 2 time, where you start in a relatively slow car and you build it up and you build that real relationship with it as it grows over time and hopefully your skills as a driver and your understanding of physics grow.
Now someone who's played a lot of racing games is more of a sim racer. They already know that, but this really does on-board people and it never talks down to them. And that's the other thing I really like is that we're treating players like: you're smart. If you can play League of Legends, if you can play DOTA 2, if you can play these complex games of incredible strategy and dexterity, you should be able to kill it in a racing game.
But people sell themselves short, like ‘oh racing's too hard for me’ and I'm like, ‘wait a minute, you're on top of the Apex Legends forums and you think racing is too hard for you? You're selling yourself short'. So this Builders Cup was built to really give that feeling. But the other piece of feedback we got is that I think there's a player in the middle where they're familiar with Motorsport and they wanna kind of jump in. They don't want as much of that building the car up over time.
And that's another piece of feedback we look at and say, well, that's something we can tune, but also as we add new mechanics and as we build this out, we can be building new modes in the live ops that we can try out and see if that's the sort of experience that kind of grabs that player that's inbetween the two as well as bleeding some of the race car in the career and bleeding some of the career and building into a multiplayer.
So I think we're set up well to respond to that, but that is the key piece of feedback: multiplayer is great and wow, some people feel a little bit Marmite about the actual building itself.
And you guys have released updates and started addressing some of those things including the way upgrades work in Builders Cup, right?
DG: We did. I wish I could say that was in response to the players. It actually wasn't. It was a response to our own playing as we were finishing the game. So that's why we had that ready: the whole idea that you finished a series and the car is now ‘graduated’. It's ready to go into live ops or it's ready to go do a class based [multiplayer] event. That was something we were thinking about a few months before we released. That's basically what this change was: aligning that graduation. It was a little bit too far out. You'd actually graduate from a series, and you're like, 'well, wait, I'm still in primary school. Give me all the stuff'.CE: Yeah, I always thought of it like in martial arts, you get your black belt. And that's basically like you’ve begun your mastery right? And the series is kind of like earning that black belt with that car and then you should be ready to go. You know you should be ready to go and master more stuff with that car. So that was one of the reasons why we made those changes.
We have to ask the obvious question: you set this up as a platform, it's called Forza Motorsport. Is this the last Forza Motorsport release? Will it just be a platform that goes on from now until eternity?
DG: It's unfortunately an impossible question to really answer. We wanted to set ourselves up with the greatest chance of that being the case. As has been the case in all these answers, it starts with the ground up. We have to look at how we set up licenses and how things are managed on the box and the thing that enables this is in many ways [Microsoft’s subscription service] Game Pass. So having Game Pass and crossplay, so you can roam from one device to the other, that actually gives it a reason why we would not want to reset the community.It's like no, let's build up your garage over time. Let's build up your skill over time and then really build this whole game and property. But there's so many pieces that could mean it can't be the last, so it's plan for rain and hope for sun. We're planning to be able to do all of this as if winds are against us, but I actually think it's feasible.
You've talked about the addition of cars and the addition of tracks and even the addition of modes, is that the limit or are you still looking at physics? Is it the whole shebang?
DG: It's the whole shebang.CE: Yeah, our physics and AI people aren't going anywhere, you know? We're constantly investing in everything that makes the game tick.
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Thats what i thought, they add multiple "career modes" over time
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- The Ratling
I much prefer racing around with road cars, but I can see the desire for wanting to flesh out the more purpose-built end of the spectrum. I would quite enjoy it, as I would love to learn more about the different types of race-built cars the game has and the series they participate in.
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But it doesn't hark back to those at all. In Forza Motorsport 2 you started in D class cars, and in Forza 3 you started in little city **** boxes which were ****ing F class cars! In this new game you start in a brand new V8 Mustang GT! So you already start with serious quick cars...So that hampers that "building up" experience. Then the whole "fall in love with a single car as you upgrade and bond with it" absolutely fails because the event restrictions are SO tight, you are basically never able to carry on with your car you've build up on an event over to the next one. With FM2&3 it was like GT games of old, where you could take your starter car so far into the career and use it on multiple events.
Remember how interesting FM2s events were? In-line 4 showcase, 6 cylinder shootout, Turbo, NA, Big Block. Horsepower limit events so you could maximise lightweighting and get an advantage. All sorts that got your creative juices flowing and were engaging. This career mode is just..THIS strict set of cars in this event, onto this next strict set of cars in this event. As soon as you start to bond and upgrade your car you are forced into another one. It's the same problem GT has with it's cafe system. Both games have absolutely failed in this regard and as usual I'll just keep on playing Gran Turismo 4 on PCSX2 and Forza Motorsport 4 on Xenia. *****.
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More meant silence in regards to addressing the issues. I don't really consider planned "PR event" stuff like Forza Monthly as communication really, as it's basically one-sided "good new guys!" type stuff where they can talk up the new cars and what they have done while ignoring the rest, but maybe I'm just being unfair. Admittedly I do often forget about the known issues page though, although it amounts to little more than a massive collection of Post-It notes stuck to an overworked person's monitor really.
I guess I think of the customer service/relations side a bit like a restaurant. If you order a meal and the kitchen totally screws up your order, and you point that out to the server and they just tell you they won an award once and also have cheesecake that is really good as the special dessert tonight, and then turn around and walk off, how do you feel? You would likely sit there irritated and confused as to what to expect. A little transparency, like an acknowledgement, what the mix up was, how long it might take, or whatever goes a long way towards placating frustrated customers.
Obviously they know there are a ton of issues, and I know they are busy since the game has been such a mess, and of course they can't address every issue either, but it would be nice to see them address some of the critical areas at least. Like missing/broken/regressing features for multiplayer or whether any hope is on the horizon for painters or so on, what areas are being given priority, what kind of feedback/reporting the community can help most with, and so on.
Also no, they don't put a full list of fixes out with the updates. They put out a lazy, incomplete list that leaves out details and has vague things like "other various fixes" on it.
A good example was the drafting changes, the patch notes just said "improved balancing and overall impact of slipstream effect" which means... what exactly? It's so vague there are all kinds of theories in the community with some people swearing the draft no longer works (which is obviously wrong), others saying the draft has just been reduced in strength, others saying it's actually had the range reduced but strength is the same, some saying it only changed things for faster cars and doesn't impact slower vehicles, some saying it did nothing to the draft but reduce the aero wash effect, others saying that aero wash is worse now... it's all over the place. We don't know if they are thinking they have "fixed" it or if they are looking into it more or if more changes are on the way. Given that a properly working draft has been a massive improvement over FM7 and has been such an integral part to the pretty great racing this game is capable of (which is basically the game's big redeeming quality among all of its other problems), I'd say it deserves a bit more specificity.
Another example is the VW nerf for the Touring Cars division, wasn't mentioned at all. Doesn't seem unreasonable to expect game balance changes to be included in patch notes, and we shouldn't have to go test drive every car in the division to see if any got a change.
Studios like UL and GGG and even many smaller PC-centric ones can include complete patch notes that specifically state what the changes were in numbers/percentages/mechanics/etc, and offer practical explanations of what the intended/expected effect will be in-game when necessary, so I don't see why T10 can't do the same.
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My biggest gripe is the FOMO after they kept telling us that events added to the career would be permanent. Clearly that isn't happening, I missed the Audi R8 because I hadn't gotten far enough in the Builder's Cup yet due to working on the Featured series. At some point they need to just be honest about whether things changed during the time that made that statement and release as it really makes them look bad.
Patch notes are never going to 100% explain what was changed nor all the changes because people simply won't understand it or won't read everything. On the other side of the coin there are folks out there that will bash FM, just because it's Forza and not their favorite franchise and it will happen regardless of good or bad changes. I've definitely noticed stability changes, although I recently upgraded to a Series X rather than using the cloud on my One X, such as the upgrade loop bug. Although, I only ever experienced that once. A lot of the folks complaining of low payouts or the leveling system taking too long I'd be willing to bet are skipping practice sessions and aren't trying to improve their driving skills, not realizing CXP is based on skill. For example, I have my Aston Martin up to almost level 40 just from doing the Premium Performance series and I still have 2 races left. My point being, some of the complaints need to be taken with a grain of salt.
It isn't perfect and it never will be, it's not FM4 or FM7 and again, it never will be. Some people need to take a step back and look at it individually instead of comparing it to its predecessors. The game has its merits and its downfalls as do all the other games in the series, it's just a fact of life. There are decisions made that make me, whom has always considered Forza a favorite, wonder why those decisions were made, what I mentioned above with the Builder's Cup is the perfect example. Do I hate the game because of it? No, but I do like to play other games as well and it is a huge time sync. 24 races just to unlock the open tour and another 30 to unlock the reward car is a bit much in the grand scheme of things. To be honest, an open class series that starts with the slowest cars in the game should be unlocked from the beginning as even the cars you start with are higher class.
Patch notes are never going to 100% explain what was changed nor all the changes because people simply won't understand it or won't read everything. On the other side of the coin there are folks out there that will bash FM, just because it's Forza and not their favorite franchise and it will happen regardless of good or bad changes. I've definitely noticed stability changes, although I recently upgraded to a Series X rather than using the cloud on my One X, such as the upgrade loop bug. Although, I only ever experienced that once. A lot of the folks complaining of low payouts or the leveling system taking too long I'd be willing to bet are skipping practice sessions and aren't trying to improve their driving skills, not realizing CXP is based on skill. For example, I have my Aston Martin up to almost level 40 just from doing the Premium Performance series and I still have 2 races left. My point being, some of the complaints need to be taken with a grain of salt.
It isn't perfect and it never will be, it's not FM4 or FM7 and again, it never will be. Some people need to take a step back and look at it individually instead of comparing it to its predecessors. The game has its merits and its downfalls as do all the other games in the series, it's just a fact of life. There are decisions made that make me, whom has always considered Forza a favorite, wonder why those decisions were made, what I mentioned above with the Builder's Cup is the perfect example. Do I hate the game because of it? No, but I do like to play other games as well and it is a huge time sync. 24 races just to unlock the open tour and another 30 to unlock the reward car is a bit much in the grand scheme of things. To be honest, an open class series that starts with the slowest cars in the game should be unlocked from the beginning as even the cars you start with are higher class.
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- Philippines
- GBalao888
- GBalao888
They really need to get rid of these mechanics and reverse what they did, especially with the Track Tour and German Open Series tours being removed, and that the Prestige and Italian Open Series tours are also in danger of being removed.
Another complaint I have would be the reward cars not being available in Free Play and the car dealer, which is why my suggestion in the Forza forums really makes even more sense as this topic is brought up. This also applies to the 2017 Ford GT, Lexus LFA, Dodge Demon and Porsche 993 GT2 as well.
Mechanics like these aren't player-friendly, especially considering common circumstances such as people's work-life balance and that some people could end up being away from home where there is no access to the game.
No car left behind, and no career mode event removed.
Adding reward cars to the car dealer and Free Play
The new career mode looks better than Horizon playlist, but i am concerned about the possibility of not being able to get the tour cars for any problems i can have I want to sugest that, after a tour ends, the showcase event becomes part of the regular career or the car itself become resward of...
forums.forza.net
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This would help significantly in the long run. I think a credit boost is also required, because it is really hard to keep buying new cars weekly for the weekly events. Initially it felt fine, but when every week is about 200k-300k it becomes touch and go. Idk, maybe i am too used to how horizon does it.They really need to get rid of these mechanics and reverse what they did, especially with the Track Tour and German Open Series tours being removed, and that the Prestige and Italian Open Series tours are also in danger of being removed.
Another complaint I have would be the reward cars not being available in Free Play and the car dealer, which is why my suggestion in the Forza forums really makes even more sense as this topic is brought up.
No car left behind, and no career mode event removed.
Adding reward cars to the car dealer and Free Play
The new career mode looks better than Horizon playlist, but i am concerned about the possibility of not being able to get the tour cars for any problems i can have I want to sugest that, after a tour ends, the showcase event becomes part of the regular career or the car itself become resward of...
Any communication with the public is PR. I don't see why you are separating announcements regarding upcoming content as not communication? Just because they don't spend their time talking about stuff that's broken, doesn't mean they're not communicating. Also they do acknowledge the big issues.
The November stream literally opened with them talking about the bugs, issues and the bug fixes. Everybody complained about it saying that it felt like they were boasting. Most comments under the stream itself are regarding the stream talking about the bug fixes calling it lip services.
I agree that patch notes can be more detailed, especially balance changes. It makes sense to do it when T10 themselves call it a "CaRPG". And keeping documentation of balance changes is beneficial to the more involved player base.
But also don't need or expect, minor stuff like "fixed position of decal on Volkswagen TCR".
I don't see the point in expecting them to mope or moan about bugs or issues in these livestreams. Keep it short and sweet with new update content and headline big fixes, if any. Do you expect a chef to come out and spend 15 minutes of your time talking about how there was too much traffic in the kitchen or that stuff wasn't going right? This is like expecting the chef to come and tell you that the food is bad. Like obviously the players know that the game is broken, why are you spending time telling them that.
This doesn't help them or anybody. They should instead put their head down and work on the fixes.
I would however expect them to announce a complementary desert or a about live music about to be played. I also do not want them to announce something whose arrival date is not known. For example FH4 and FH5 both announced the increase in save file size as well paintable brake calipers. The brake caliper stuff never came to FH4 and save file stuff came much later in both games. Is it not better if they they announce it when ready. What if you waiter told you every five minutes that you replacement meal is being worked on every 5 minutes till it arrived.
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- 4,006
- Philippines
- GBalao888
- GBalao888
What else is a problem with the come-and-go mechanics of time-limited cars and event tours is that I'm part of a Forza-related Facebook group somewhere and they literally have the gall to defend this and say things like "jUsT pLaY tHe gAmE" and all their nonsense.
Like, do you not hear the community's calls for a change in policies for a better game?
Like, do you not hear the community's calls for a change in policies for a better game?
