FR or AWD

[SWAT2291]

I have been trying to learn how to drift for about 2 months now and have not succeded in being very good at it. I have watched Delphic Reasons (Silvia Drifter) AWD videos and it seems that I might be able to do that. I have only been trying to drift FR cars like the S14 and the RX-7 (umm the old one forgot the name I think its FD or something) and only succeed in 1 out of 20 drifts and cant actually end it mostly get through the middle then go off the track and spin out or something. So after watching the AWD videos it seems you need to use less counter steering and such just when exiting the turn and I just asking in your guys opinion should I stay with FR or try soem AWD?

 

[nk4e]

Stay with FR

 

[SWAT2291]

Of all the people to first put a post it has to be doesn't it Nightkids LOL! You the person who has helped me through it

 

[nk4e]

Of all the people to first put a post it has to be doesn't it Nightkids LOL! You the person who has helped me through it

Yup..Im also helping other people on a different site and I have my own forum for PDR

 

[ForcedInduction]

I have been trying to learn how to drift for about 2 months now and have not succeded in being very good at it. I have watched Delphic Reasons (Silvia Drifter) AWD videos and it seems that I might be able to do that. I have only been trying to drift FR cars like the S14 and the RX-7 (umm the old one forgot the name I think its FD or something) and only succeed in 1 out of 20 drifts and cant actually end it mostly get through the middle then go off the track and spin out or something. So after watching the AWD videos it seems you need to use less counter steering and such just when exiting the turn and I just asking in your guys opinion should I stay with FR or try soem AWD?

Stick with FR...here's why:

I personally started with AWD drivetrains and caught on quite quickly. Yes, AWD requires little if any counter-steer during drifts and frankly, it is a lot easier.

...but when i tried to go back to FR drifting, it was the complete opposite. I had to be gentle with the throttle, have a great deal of countersteer and the car didn't feel as stable compared to the full-throttle no-countersteer AWD drivetrain.

So my suggestion is even though it is hard to drift with FR, keep practicing until you can somewhat drift. THEN get into AWD drifting. 👍

 

[Boundary Layer]

yes, listen to FI 👍
also, I would add to his comments:
dont worry about making the drifts look eye popping like DR's if you're just getting started. I would focus more on getting a clean entry and exit from the corners. So carry a bit less drift angle and make it through the turn.
Really work on the throttle control, its sounds to me like that might be where you problems lie.
When you're a bit more confident in your abilitly to leave a corner cleanly, then you might start dialing a bit more angle into your drifts.
Oh, and always use sim tires.

(dunno if everyone else here will agree with me, just my own thoughts)
Good Luck!

Edit:

...the RX-7 (umm the old one forgot the name I think its FD or something)...

old one is the FC btw

 

[R_Riders]

Not quite beaten to the punch but FI and TankSpanker are right. It's better to just try and get used to FR before you go for AWD. It's usually a better decision to try and focus on just one drivetrain and to a degree master it or have a handle on it on given cars before you try cars on other drivetrain platforms.

FI is right in the sense AWD could be easier becuase countersteering is not so much an issue if you're begining outright and you usually have to give much more throttle than you would with FR. But he's also right that it would be harder with FR.

But as I said in another post...

This is me, but it depends on your prespective of what is difficult or what is not so difficult. Some people could adapt quicky to AWD if they were to something like MR, FR, even FF, other cases not quite so. Every drive train has a different sense of behavior, even if 2 drivetrains may carry some lose similar traits like FR to MR or FF to 4WD. The former having a difference in just where the engine is placed, the latter to having power to the rear tires (for 4WD's usually more to the rear than the front...less I missed something...) save for a case of a car origionally based on an FR platform like the GTRs, some Mercedes', etc.

This is from my prespective as a FR drifter, and I could be wrong even though it's just my look at it. I'm used to countersteering, I'm used to feinting, feathering the throttle at times (sometimes though I may set the LSD to have the car slide easy, other cases so I will keep on the throttle all the way depending on that corner and car and conditions)... far as I know... although 4WD carrys one or two things remotely if not anywhere similar to FR, MR, any rear drive... the approach far as I know is a different story.

For starters, counterteering usually is not as much or close to almost none for AWD because the front tires take care of the force you would usually need by countersteering with a rear drive car. What's more, as Sudou had said in Initial D (don't get at me about it) and I think even Delphc reason said it too (could be wrong, forgive me if I am...) that you really, really need to keep on the gas in a number of cases.

I don't know how to actually put it into words that make some tech sense (and I could be totally absolutey wrong about this...), but basilcy, since all four tires are in constant motion, including the front ones, usually you need to stay on the throttle, if you let off or feather it like you would an FR, the result is either losing your drift and/or spining out and/or regaining grip quicker than you would want to. Even though it's a game but it applies to IRL, the scarest part of drifting a 4WD is to keep on the throttle a lot of the time I think... you have to nail everything right with 4WD's a lot of the time and since I'm not used to it yet, it seams more so for that drivetrain than FR.

But I can also imagine a switched senaro for a 4WD drifter to FR with wondering how he/she can manage with feathering the throttle or the countersteering when most of the time he/she has been used to the 4WD drifting style. But again, me, I could be very wrong about this.

What also makes AWD drifting so great (take a look at videos like Art of AWD by Forced Induction, I don't know if it's the music by Daft Punk or the drifts themselves or a mix of both but that's very well done, also countersteer zero by DR...) is that if you usually nail it right, you pull of a number of turns not really if at all possible by any other drive train.

Few things surpass seeing a 4WD go thru a drift at one point even nearly facing the counter inside or nearly or right at 90 degrees for even a brief instance as you'd be hard pressed to try that with an FR (if I have done it, which maybe once or twice but only in some short corners like before the first tunnel on Grand Valley or Midfield II)... or any rear drive train. In the end, it could be easy for some or hard for others, but I figure, if you keep at it, it wount be so hard, it's the approach for anything.

Well, that's about it, soemthing tells me I got half a billion things wrong but oh well, nobody is perfect.

Till later.

from https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=51832, that more or less says it all, and it's been said more or less the very same way by DR and others. It depends on what you define as easy or hard. FI far as I can tell would figure it's harder with FR than AWD, it's on the basis or so I figure that he's more familar with AWD. I'm more familar with FR so I'm going to say it's harder with AWD because I'm used to doing what is necessary to drift with FR, it's hard (but possible) for me to drift with an AWD, and anything else I'm sure I left out is explained above.

Not sure what else to say, your only real ally besides that is just to keep at it, watching videos with people drifting FR and even a few Initial D episodes can so some good (emphasis on some because that was most of what I could watch besides what GT3 videos I could from last year and early this year, also a few IRL videos as well, but just simply praticeing helped as well...).

That's about it, till later.

 

[Swift]

Yeah, What R_Riders just said!

I actually find AWD harder then FR for the simple fact I was drifting FR for 6 months then tried to go to AWD.

However, I have noticed that the real "trick" to AWD is finding the right line. For me, maniuplating your line mid-drift is more difficult in a AWD(for me) then a FR. However, maintaining a drift in an AWD is simplicity itself. Sometimes I feel like I can go on forever. Then I realize my line is horrible and into the wall/grass/sand I go!

But as far as fundamentals, AWD IS easier. However, just because the fundamentals are easier, doesn't mean the execution is easier as well.

I say stick with FR until you've got a good handle on it. Then go to AWD.

 

[iSpreadSTDs]

yeah kust here to say my choice for drifting is FR of course but the mines lancer is great for 4 wheel drifts but its all about 266hp in the rain in a 180(240)sx and always on sim tires

 

[Azuremen]

AWD is easier to make all the tires slip with, but changing your line mid corner I've found to be tricky...

Start with MR layouts, thats what I did... extremely responsive to throttle inputs. Also will teach a fast drift... which is different from all these flashy show drifts

 

[Delphic Reason]

Work on both....

 

[exhaust_note]

SWAT - don't build a car to drift... build a car to grip

if its stable in the corner in grip racing, it will be stable in the corner in drifting... lets use some common sense here fella's

 

[RX-7_FC_DrIfteR]

SWAT - don't build a car to drift... build a car to grip

if its stable in the corner in grip racing, it will be stable in the corner in drifting... lets use some common sense here fella's

You must not forget, when you build a drift car, your settings almost completely, go agents grip rules. Especially in suspension area.

 

[Boundary Layer]

SWAT - don't build a car to drift... build a car to grip

if its stable in the corner in grip racing, it will be stable in the corner in drifting... lets use some common sense here fella's

ya, I've used this approach in the past on occasion. Get a grip setup, then gradually dial the grip out in the necessary places.
in fact, i remember either pm-ing or posting the idea to someone or in some thread earlier this spring shortly after i joined the forum. But recall it being shot down fairly readily by other members
it always made sense to me though.
A balanced car is a balanced car, however driven, so long as the rubber hits the road.

 

[exhaust_note]

You must not forget, when you build a drift car, your settings almost completely, go agents grip rules. Especially in suspension area.

how.... you can't just say that and not explain... you make no sense...

 

[SWAT2291]

how.... you can't just say that and not explain... you make no sense...

Hey lay off of him I get what he saying even if I don't really know how to adjust the settings in the car. So right here I'm using the "FC" Thx TankSpanker and mayne you could help me out on what I should buy for it or put the settings at

 

[Boundary Layer]

Hey lay off of him I get what he saying even if I don't really know how to adjust the settings in the car. So right here I'm using the "FC" Thx TankSpanker and mayne you could help me out on what I should buy for it or put the settings at

well, to be honest, i think that both the FC and FD RX7's are decent drifters straight off the production line. I just throw sims on them and get sideways. Though, I think the FC can benefit from a little bit more power. Anyways, what I'm saying is that I dont have settings for the FC.

However, a simple click of the search button could have led you to this thread:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=51592
wow! and entire thread dedicated to setting for the FC! will wonders never cease...

have a look through there first, and try some stuff out. If you're still having problems, post your settings in this thread. I'm sure someone will show up to look at them and help you out.

Best of luck! 👍

edit: or better yet, if you own, or can get access to a video capture device, get a replay displaying the problems you're having available for download, and supply that alongside the settings you're using. Make sure you show the steering and throttle input.

 

[Delphic Reason]

ya, I've used this approach in the past on occasion. Get a grip setup, then gradually dial the grip out in the necessary places.
in fact, i remember either pm-ing or posting the idea to someone or in some thread earlier this spring shortly after i joined the forum. But recall it being shot down fairly readily by other members
it always made sense to me though.
A balanced car is a balanced car, however driven, so long as the rubber hits the road.

Correct...

Exhaust_Note makes a good point... In fact, most all D1 drivers use very near to race ready (grip) settings... Personally, I have always used simple variations of grip settings... Balance is indeed the key...

 

[Azuremen]

I use my race settings when I am playing around... making the suspension sloppy... is... sloppy <_<

Maybe tweak my race settings a little to drift, or put on sport or norm tires, maybe sims (I never race with higher than T2s)

That, and the higher the grip settings, the faster the drift, and faster always looks better. Slow drifts... fail to impress me at all...

 

[SWAT2291]

I don't know how to tweak the setting it doesn't feel any different racing with almost any settings. Except for the gears ACS TCS or the Differential things.

 

[Boundary Layer]

I don't know how to tweak the setting it doesn't feel any different racing with almost any settings. Except for the gears ACS TCS or the Differential things.

well then that's half of it done

ok, suspension. This is where you make or break the car, in my opinion.
generally speaking, softer spring rates, bound and rebound settings, and sway bars will promote more grip at the end you're adjusting. This means, if you want the backside to step out, give it stiffer (numerically higher) settings
You'll have to play with this yourself and see what suits your style. I tend to like my cars set pretty stiff, but I've seen a lot of soft settings posted on the forum. Soft settings with large amounts of body roll make the weight shift from side to side more noticeable, and more pronounced in a feint induced drift. Though this is not to say that it cant be done with a stiff setup. In the end it all depends on what you get used to.

moving on,
I've found that negative rear toe gives you more cornering stability (ie.more stable drift) and makes it easier to induce oversteer. Positive front toe gives you touchier steering (more response). Overdoing it can make the car a bit of a handful. I seldom go beyond -1 in the rear, or +1 in the front.
Also, more negative front camber will give you better ability to countersteer. It accounts for deflection in the suspension while its under cornering load, or in other words it helps preserve the contact patch of the front tires. The same holds true in the rear, though I find it less essential.

this is all very loose and general terms though. The nerdy engineering student in me could go on for days about load distribution, and force analysis garbage, but i dont think anyone would be too interested to hear it, especially when its been done so many times before.
Here, have a read over M-Specs guide, it should be helpful.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=28326

Oh, and brake bias. Just set the rear higher, thats about all there is to it. give it like 18-22, and keep the front at like 8-12. Play with that til your hearts content.


I really think it would be beneficial for you to post your FC settings, along with what's ailing you. Someone(s) with some experience with them will no doubt show up to look at it
~TankSpanker points at RX-7_FC_DrIfteR~

but i think the best thing is to just pick some settings that sorta work, and then leave them alone.
Practice with them for a long stretch of laps, like 15 or 20. I go at least 10 laps on new settings before doing any major adjustments so i have a chance to adapt my style to them a bit. (unless its so blatantly obvious that there is something major wrong)
Its hard to pass a clean judgement on new settings after only 2 or 3 failed laps. You havent had a chance to change your driving to match the new settings in that short amount of time.
...thats my rant

again, best of luck

edit:
also, (and this may just sound like common sense, but i'm posting it anyways) try your best to only change 1 thing at a time when you do make settings adjustments
this will (1) give you a more intimate knowledge of what each setting does and how it effects the driveability of the car.
and (2) changing spring rates and sway bars at the same time in the same direction (for example) will almost inevitably result in you changing one or both of the settings back to their starting location, and trying them again individually. Avoid this whole sticky mess and just do them 1 by 1 in the first place.

 

[RX-7 FD Drifter]

for me FR was like the basics to start drifting, then I moved onto other drivetrains.

 

[dantran89]

i cant really say since im a n00b now cos i just started using the steering wheel but before i use to drift all the time wit the controller. i started wit FR but then found it difficulty cos i was just pathetic and delicate control. i changed to AWD n found it a lot easier since i was able to control the angle simply by using the gas. all it needed was a good entry speed n soft touches of steering n i could get through almost any corner.

but then again i do agree with the other guys, start with FR since its one of the most difficult drivetrains to drift with a controller, then mess around with AWD.

 

[iammike]

I actually switched from MR and FR to AWD just for a change and ended up enjoying AWD drifting more then MR or FR. It's not that it's harder or not, just enjoy the style more.

 

[Polarbear]

I'd say start out with a light FR to maintain control and stability during the drift. Then add weight or power, one or the other at a time to get used to it. Then after you've managed that, try a different drivetrain.

 

[stumpydino]

i only started properly drifting yesterday, im learning pretty quick, just to start off with i suggest leaving a little asc and traction control on about 2/3 and find a car that you like to use, at the moment i like using the mercedes cl600 which is easy to slide but easy to control

 

[R_Riders]

i only started properly drifting yesterday, im learning pretty quick, just to start off with i suggest leaving a little asc and traction control on about 2/3 and find a car that you like to use, at the moment i like using the mercedes cl600 which is easy to slide but easy to control

Hmm... you know, this is just me, but a number of us here would rather just leave the TCS and ASM (I think) at zero with sims on most cars save for some exceptions depending on power and weight. Gabkicks had a CL600 that he had a reply or two that he drifted very well with a wheel. It was a sweet ride . I figure ASM and TCS would at times make it harder to drift with a car but it depends on the settings also.

I could set a car to be tail happy the instant I steer anywhere but strait but then the car wouldd be hard to even go fast with, and drifting even if it's 8/10 times slower than grip, still needs speed to even keep a drift going. Only in a case like maybe (note maybe) the Escudo or the 1000BHP Corvette C5R with it's mods, maybe with super softs or so, but still. It would not be the best of ideas to use ASM or TCS but this is again me.

But Gabkicks just happen to be around me and well and he said...

"What is drifting? Breaking TRACTION. Traction control is an anti-drifting mechanism. Infact, it'll make you slam into a ****ing wall, the inside of a turn most likely."

What does this mean in case you or anyone else can't figure? Traction control basilcy is the computer withdrawing throttle the instant wheel spin is detected, and to what extent the computer intervines and says 'no more sliding', it at times can actually hurt than help if not all the time. The best key is to learn how to manage a car with no traction control. Same for ASM.

I figure as I see things now, I can manage the game well and other tires seam to be too grippy but it depends on the car, I still can't quite manage the Opel Astra on sims, or I just simply suck. Then again that race S-15 Silvia can be a handle to even get it to skid sometimes due in part to the downforce and the fact it's tires even for sims seam to be very grippy.

It's good though you're learning quickly, but I'd suggest trying bone stock cars like (need I say?), the AE86 Trueno GT Apex, The RX-7 FC3S and FD3S, and even heavier cars that most would find unfit for drifting by any means somehow like a Corvette Z06 (yet it's actually suggested by some as a lightweight in it's class considering it's on the same level as a Mitsubishi Lancer, Skyline GTR, Porshes, Ferraris', etc...) despite that having a thing called POWER which I can wield well at times, or the Camaro Z28 and so forth. I'd argue futher about that but, no.

Point is, ASM and TSC are not a good idea or so I figure but it in the end depends I guess. I wonder how Swift, DR and others feel about this (including NK4E, CMD, Forced Induction, etc) too, then again maybe I'm making a mountain out of a molehill.

What does anybody else have to say?

That's me... till later.

 

[nk4e]

Ill go with R riders on that one ^_^

 

[stumpydino]

i was merely suggesting leaving a little on, its down to preference really but when your starting its hard to control drifts and a little driving aid is handy, well i did cos i got fed up of turning it all off then when i lost it id be scrabbling about with no grip trying to get away, im a learner ok

 

[Delphic Reason]

i was merely suggesting leaving a little on, its down to preference really but when your starting its hard to control drifts and a little driving aid is handy, well i did cos i got fed up of turning it all off then when i lost it id be scrabbling about with no grip trying to get away, im a learner ok

It's a bad habit... Everything is hard at first, but once you learn the techniques it comes together... Keeping ASM or TCS on is very counterproductive for drifting... The TCS will retard engine power when it senses a wheel(s) slipping... This just creates a situation where you have to manhandle the vehicle to get it to do anything... It would be wiser on your part to learn proper throttle and countersteering control, instead of using cheap counterproductive so called shortcuts...