Free energy

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HamiltonMP427
Simply, this Boeing orbital X-plane may be testing the EmDrive. China is testing EmDrive on the orbiting Tiangong 2.

Wow so you went there, I didn't want to presume that's what your angle was, but I figured it was that. Why on earth would that be the payload? Out of the many more interesting conspiracy in what the X-37b does up there, you go with "testing of a system that was of public interest anyways"...
 

ryzno

Slowest of the Fastest!!
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I've got this great idea for putting a turbine on the roof of an electric car. Driving will spin the turbine, which charges the battery, which powers the car, which spins the turbine. Runs forever. Anyone have the number for Elon Musk?
Doesn't an electric car company have solar panels on its roof to extend battery life?
 
12,233
Australia
Adelaide
GTP_Imari
I agree on the other hand it kind of is how we learned about quantum mechanics if I'm not mistaken. (Double slit experiment or how do you spell it in english)

That's different. That's an experiment designed to test a hypothesis, not a machine designed to perform a function. The whole idea of the double slit experiment is to measure an at the time uncertain behaviour of light.

It's like saying you can't use a ruler unless you already know how long what you want to measure is. That's obviously silly, the whole point is the measuring.

The fan-girl who hangs out at my fencing academy told me the other day the double-slit experiment has been debunked. :grumpy:

There are multiple explanations for it and stuff like pilot wave theory are becoming less fringe (ha!), but "debunked" would sort of suggest that it doesn't work as advertised. It does. You can do it yourself very easily with a laser pointer. It forms a diffraction pattern through multiple slits.

It's like saying that Einstein debunked Newton's apocryphal apple falling from a tree experiment. Einstein altered our understanding of what was fundamentally going on with gravity, but any experiment with gravity works the same after Einstein as it did before.

If you have access to more complex equipment you can step into the single photon experiments also and see that those also work as advertised, but the fact that there's a diffraction pattern at all is enough weirdness to start with. Light very clearly has both what we would describe as particle and wave-like characteristics. The double slit experiment is the typical demonstration of the wave character.

There is to this day still a lot of discussion about exactly what makes light do this, and while there exist theories that predict the phenomena well they also require some pretty startlingly unintuitive ways of thinking about light that possibly suggests that there's more to it. In fact, I think you'd struggle to find any serious physicist that actually thinks that our current understanding of light is complete, or even close to complete (if in fact a "theory of everything" actually exists in any meaningful way).
 

homeforsummer

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Doesn't an electric car company have solar panels on its roof to extend battery life?
A few use panels to reduce strain on accessories (HVAC, radio etc) but solar roofs on cars aren't effective for much else - the surface area isn't big enough. You could leave an EV all day out in the sun with a solar roof and probably have one or two more miles in the battery when you got back to it.

It's why those long-distance solar racers run in places like Australia are basically like garage-door-sized solar panels with tiny bubble cockpits and bicycle wheels and still only do 20mph. Those are the kind of compromises you have to make with current solar technology for it to be worthwhile for cars.
 
12,233
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GTP_Imari
Those are the kind of compromises you have to make with current solar technology for it to be worthwhile for cars.

And it honestly probably doesn't even get much better than that. Power from the sun is something on the order of 1.5kW per square meter, so even if you have a pretty big car on a bright sunny day you're at best getting the power of an old school Mini. And that's if someone invents super efficient solar panels and electric motors.

A pure solar car is unlikely to ever be a thing for a real consumer.
 
22,378
United States
Here to Eternity
TexRex72
I seem to recall there being a concept car in the '80s (MG EX-E?) that utilized solar panels to power small fans in the cabin to circulate air while it was parked in an effort to reduce A/C running to cool it down when driven again.
 
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TenEightyOne
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And it honestly probably doesn't even get much better than that. Power from the sun is something on the order of 1.5kW per square meter, so even if you have a pretty big car on a bright sunny day you're at best getting the power of an old school Mini. And that's if someone invents super efficient solar panels and electric motors.

A pure solar car is unlikely to ever be a thing for a real consumer.

Add to that the fact that solar panels are about 20-25% efficient (in utterly optimum conditions) and one ends up way short of the 40+ kW/h required to move a small-ish car, even maximum energy recovery isn't going to help. IIRC the only working types of solar car are like this super-lightweight teardrop prototype.
 

nobuffalo

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This is gonna sound really dumb but what about using something like capillary action to draw a liquid to a certain height then as it flows back down through a different channel or something it spins a turbine?

Yep, kinda dumb. After thinking about if for a few seconds it's not the same kind of energy loop you guys are even talking about. Also after a quick google search I now see why it will not work.
 
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Obelisk

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I've got this great idea for putting a turbine on the roof of an electric car. Driving will spin the turbine, which charges the battery, which powers the car, which spins the turbine. Runs forever. Anyone have the number for Elon Musk?
Rolling resistance of tires + drivetrains. Air resistance. Frictiom between body parts of the car. Energy loss from heat generated by motors + turbine. Stop and go traffic forces upped energy consumption because inertia is a 🤬.

Too much energy loss to even consider.
 

homeforsummer

Bonbonbonbons!
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Rolling resistance of tires + drivetrains. Air resistance. Frictiom between body parts of the car. Energy loss from heat generated by motors + turbine. Stop and go traffic forces upped energy consumption because inertia is a 🤬.

Too much energy loss to even consider.
bb8.png
 
1,750
Wales
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numbnuts70
RichPlanet did a couple of vids, a few years ago, investigating this sort of stuff.

Over unity devices, zero point energy.
Here's a vid to kick start a youtube surf.

 
12,233
Australia
Adelaide
GTP_Imari
This is gonna sound really dumb but what about using something like capillary action to draw a liquid to a certain height then as it flows back down through a different channel or something it spins a turbine?

Yep, kinda dumb. After thinking about if for a few seconds it's not the same kind of energy loop you guys are even talking about. Also after a quick google search I now see why it will not work.

You're right that it doesn't work, but it's actually a better idea than many that are proposed for perpetual motion. It's at least non-obvious why it doesn't work, as the intricacies of surface energies aren't exactly common knowledge. "The Capillary Bowl" is the usual description for that type of machine.

It's exactly the same kind of energy loop that was originally raised in the OP though, so don't be put off there. It's a system that if it functioned would produce infinitely extractable work.
 

kikie

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in the land of stupidity
Steven Greer said that Aliens have been in contact with humans. But there is a huge cover up. Why this cover up Jesse Ventura asked.
According Greer; because the humans have (reversed engineering) anti gravity technology which makes our dependence of fossil fuel obselete. There is too much money involved so they don't tell the world about this technology.

After reading this post from @Dotini, I'm not sure if this techology really exists though.
 
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952
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Steven Greer said that Aliens have been in contact with humans. But there is a huge cover up. Why this cover up Jesse Ventura asked.
According Greer; because the humans have (reversed engineering) anti gravity technology which makes our dependence of fossil fuel obselete. There is too much money involved.

Get out your tinfoil hats guys! We're going on a trip! :P

PS my response is on the content of the post not @kikie opinion on the video.
 

Dotini

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CR80_Shifty
At fifteen minutes long it's hard to say - could you summarise it in a post?
Disregarding (wisely) everything said about aliens and UFOs, and focusing only on the political/economic premises of this (and other similar) videos, we may consider the following:
- Our current global economy is largely based upon oil and gas for heat, transportation, materials, etc, etc, etc. Employment, economic activity and many of the essential and pleasurable aspects of our lives are made possible by petroleum and the petroleum industry.
- Most of global trade in petroleum is denominated in US dollars. The power and influence of the US and particularly the US military maintains this status quo. There are rivals such as Russia and China, but the USD, however shaky, is still in control.
- So there is this nexus of central banks, global industry and US military - the "military/industrial complex" that Eisenhower so lamely warned of - that really rules the world, not national states.
- This is in no way democratic, but oligarchic and fascist.

So, you have to ask yourself, why is Dr Greer (and others like him who have so many deep connections both alleged and admitted with the US intelligence/military establishment) trying to peddle a story about free energy and the liberation of mankind? Now, remember that motivations are always the most difficult, inscrutable and last things we learn about another person.
 
22,532
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HamiltonMP427
Get out your tinfoil hats guys! We're going on a trip! :P

PS my response is on the content of the post not @kikie opinion on the video.

We long passed that, the moment this thread got going. It's a pretty open and shut subject at this point in human understanding, and probably always will be based on the science being pretty solid on the why.
 
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Liquid

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Bratvegas
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Isn't renewable energy sort of by definition unlimited? Or functionally so at least, in that energy from a solar source is so abundant and long lasting that over consumption is unlikely to ever be an issue.

I read a dumb post on Imgur about EPA lobbying renewable energy sources. The crux of the arguement was a bumper sticker-level strapline:

Wind stops. The sky goes dark. This is why we need clean coal.

Even acknowledging the crumb of an argument about wind and solar power, it just left me completely dumbfounded.

Yes, the wind does stop.
Yes, the sky does go dark.
But coal? Coal definitely lasts forever...
 

Johnnypenso

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Johnnypenso
I read a dumb post on Imgur about EPA lobbying renewable energy sources. The crux of the arguement was a bumper sticker-level strapline:

Wind stops. The sky goes dark. This is why we need clean coal.

Even acknowledging the crumb of an argument about wind and solar power, it just left me completely dumbfounded.

Yes, the wind does stop.
Yes, the sky does go dark.
But coal? Coal definitely lasts forever...
The wind stops and the sky goes dark pretty much every day. The coal supply will last for decades and doesn't shut down at sunset.
 

Danoff

Who is John Galt?
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I read a dumb post on Imgur about EPA lobbying renewable energy sources. The crux of the arguement was a bumper sticker-level strapline:

Wind stops. The sky goes dark. This is why we need clean coal.

Even acknowledging the crumb of an argument about wind and solar power, it just left me completely dumbfounded.

Yes, the wind does stop.
Yes, the sky does go dark.
But coal? Coal definitely lasts forever...

The wind stops and the sky goes dark pretty much every day. The coal supply will last for decades and doesn't shut down at sunset.

Nuclear

nuclear-power-smile_721_420_80_s_c1.jpg
 

Liquid

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This is the response most people gave to the idiot post I referred to originally.

I absolutely see the benefits of nuclear power but I am still skeptical about the use of hazardous materials and disposal of said waste. Never mind that two have been built in Wales, one in a national freaking park, against the wishes of the population. It's the most NIMBY of all NIMBYs.

For me, I don't see why tidal power isn't better utilised or further researched. Even Bill O'Reilly sees how the tide works. So:

The wind stops.
The sky goes dark.
Tide goes in, tide goes out. You can't explain that.

It, at least, doesn't stop. Unless some sort of cosmic disaster affects the moon.