From GT5 to FM4

[ogwaffle2]

OK so here is the deal. Been playing GT since GT2. Got GT5 back in Nov '10 and been playing it since. Love the game, and i really enjoy playing it. Lately I've been looking around at Forza game play and stuff and it has really been interesting. Sure there certainly aren't as many cars, but the small things like the tuning, livery editor, etc, seem awesome. GT5 imo has been pretty **** lately. The lame seasonal events and "spec 2.0" BS hasn't much excited me. The only thing i use my PS3 for is GT5, and I'm considering just trading all that in for a 360 and Forza 4.

So my question is for those who have both GT5 and FM4, and or have played both. How do they really compare as far as the feel of the racing and stuff? How is the online racing modes? Has anyone up here moved to FM4 from GT5? Seriously thinking of dropping my Gran Turismo exclusivity for this.

Sorry in advance to the admins if there is another thread about this. To be honest, i haven't searched. Just point me in the right direction.

 

[stevetam]

The driving aspect is arguable for both platforms. I'm really tired of the physics and driving models debates. We know alot about this stuff by experimentation, while both physics engines are not perfect, they are good enough on the console sim level.

As for the playability of Forza Motorsport, you will find that menu reactions and the logistics are done cleaner and faster than in GT (I'm the type of person who likes a good UI, but can bear with something a little bit sloppy a la GT5, although contrary to popular opinion, I like the GT home screen look). Where F4 really shines is the content and the value of the game itself.

Lets start with the offline portion. We have a whole variety of cars to choose from (although I wish they had GT's Kei-cars ) ranging from the lamest subcompact cars to supercars all the way to the most exotic Barrett-Jackson Auction Pieces. Simply, there will be a car for you in Forza. (If you were to get Forza, I personally recommend the DLC via Season pass. It has just given so much value per "unit" entertainment) T10 does a great job of taking interesting cars and implementing them as DLC (Porsche Pack, May 22! ). The paint booth with the livery editor gives endless possibilities; and I think you know all too much about this 'temptation'.

Now to online; Rivals mode is where Forza shines its best. Quite akin to NFS' autolog. It provides a really addictive game mode where it is so compelling to attempt to beat you rival. It is really hard to explain but there is some competitive high that is activated during this mode. The storefront and auction house are very convenient tools to obtaining decals, tunes and a wide range of vehicles (The AH isn't all rosy, I stopped using it because of the dirty credit issue). Online is not all rosy, as of late I haven't been able to hitch onto a decent lobby and maintain through a race (with the exception of a custom lobby). I'm disappointed that I'm spending big bucks on XBL and getting dropped finding a lobby, or finding rooms that are completely devoid of life. And before the guns go out, at least I get get a hold of active rooms in GT5. I dearly hope T10 will fix this up, but because online racing is not my priority, it isn't a deal breaker for me.

Content creation is really neat in Forza; although the inherent I/O system from the Xbox 360 causes the user experience to be much worse that it should be. I haven't used the video editor much, but looking at videos on youtube, enough effort and dedication can lead to spectacular publications. Photomode is spectacular in Forza; although I would say that the camera aspect handles better in GT5, the ability to pause the game at any moment to take a picture is a very nice feature that I wish GT5 had. Although shots have to be loaded into a XBL account which requires a Gold Subscription, and these shots have a hint of compression. As a result normal pictures from Forza in general will not look as good as GT5's, provided its of a Premium subject. Bigshots are very nice because they have no compression but they are a pain as my upload speeds from my ISP are terrible. The livery editor can be considered content creation, I don't think I need to elaborate here; If you are willing to spend the time and effort the results will be amazing.

Regarding the Microsoft Ecosystem and the Xbox 360, the console handling is excellent. I bought my PS3 initially because it had Blu-Ray, Gran Turismo and an Interface I like. The original Xbox 360 Dashboard looked and felt awful in my opinion. Now inline with Metro UI, the Xbox handles very intuitively and is pleasing to look at and use. While I like XMB in the PS3, I feel its due for a refresh. Both devices are very capable media devices and it would be totally up to you if you want to sell the PS3. If you are not going to use it for its Blu-Ray or play any games, it might be time to trade away.

Sorry for being so long, and keep in mind alot of this is my own opinion. Hope this helps you. Just for reference I own:

- 120GB PS3 Slim (Generation 1 Slim) + GT5
- 4GB Xbox 360 (Generation 1 Slim + Matte Surface) + 20GB HDD + FM3/FM4:CE

 

[imported_phillkillv2]

Content creation is really neat in Forza; although the inherent I/O system from the Xbox 360 causes the user experience to be much worse that it should be. I haven't used the video editor much, but looking at videos on youtube, enough effort and dedication can lead to spectacular publications. Photomode is spectacular in Forza; although I would say that the camera aspect handles better in GT5, the ability to pause the game at any moment to take a picture is a very nice feature that I wish GT5 had. Although shots have to be loaded into a XBL account which requires a Gold Subscription, and these shots have a hint of compression. As a result normal pictures from Forza in general will not look as good as GT5's, provided its of a Premium subject. Bigshots are very nice because they have no compression but they are a pain as my upload speeds from my ISP are terrible. The livery editor can be considered content creation, I don't think I need to elaborate here; If you are willing to spend the time and effort the results will be amazing.

An example of what I made in about 30 minutes of work.

 

[ogwaffle2]

Thx ISO and phil for following up with that information. Another question.. Does F4 have a free run or track day type online mode like GT5 does? Or maybe drag racing? That's one thing i love about GT5 online.

 

[imported_phillkillv2]

Thx ISO and phil for following up with that information. Another question.. Does F4 have a free run or track day type online mode like GT5 does? Or maybe drag racing? That's one thing i love about GT5 online.

Well. Offline Forza has a free run where you can take any car from your garage and race it without damage infliction. (You don't have to favorite a car to race in free run either) You can set up your own lobby and create a track day theme. You can customize anything in a lobby to your liking and you can kick at will. The game doesn't allow for you to tune in the lobby but you can previously set tunes for tracks that you feel like racing on (You can't change a car at a split decision like GT5 at the pits) You can set as many laps up to 50 laps on Forza. You can also drag race on any track if you like. You can do a drag specific strip too also with a tree and such things.

Anything else you want to know ?

 

[Phoenix]

So my question is for those who have both GT5 and FM4, and or have played both. How do they really compare as far as the feel of the racing and stuff? How is the online racing modes? Has anyone up here moved to FM4 from GT5? Seriously thinking of dropping my Gran Turismo exclusivity for this.

I wouldn't sell my PS3 and GT5 for any Forza game, even though I bought my 360 just for FM4, and FM3 with it.

I've played both FM3 and FM4 alot, but I always return to GT5 (GT4 earlier).
I just find the gameplay in Forza to be to arcade(ish), and I like GT alot more when it comes to gameplay and enjoyment in the long run.

In FM4, you can just throw a car into a drift at high speeds and don't have to navigate (much) to control it through the corner.
I don't like that.
GT5 is alot more challenging to perfect, which is why I always have loved the GT series, and why I always return to GT5.

Sure FM4 has online modes like Tag (virus) etc which is hilarious almost every time, but the loading times, and disconnections just is annoying.

Basicly, in my point of view, GT5 beats FM4, by a mile...

 

[hennessey86]

@mcsoap. what wheel do you use

 

[Chagen46]

I just find the gameplay in Forza to be to arcade(ish), and I like GT alot more when it comes to gameplay and enjoyment in the long run.

Right, Forza is arcadish when it models three different points for tire temps, tire pressure, tire width, and tire flexing. It also models power over-steer much better.

Meanwhile, GT5 doesn't model tire pressure, width, or rim size....or plently of other things.

In GT4 and GT5, you can bash your way to the top of the rankings in A-Spec. In Forza, doing that leads to a busted body suspension, engine, and transmission. GT5 does nothing to promote clean driving, while Forza does. GT5 has barely any customization compared to Forza's literally endless customization.

Yeah, Forza is real arcadish

 

[Phoenix]

@mcsoap. what wheel do you use

In Forza 4? None.

In GT5? G27.

Yeah, Forza is real arcadish

As I said, it was my opinion, don't bash on me for that.
We are all different.

 

[t.o.]

As I said, it was my opinion, don't bash on me for that.
We are all different.

I don't think he's bashing you as much as he's bashing your opinion which is fair game. Especially when the opinion doesn't have much legs to stand on.

I read your opinion and it seems to be of the "if it's hard it must be real" camp. If cars drove in real life like they drive in GT5 the death rate on the world's highways would be quadrupled easily from what they are now.

Then there's the using a controller in Forza vs a wheel in GT5. Any truly objective person would readily admit they can't form an opinion from this fact alone. Add to that we have no idea what settings you are using in Forza vs GT5 and you have a situation where the opinion isn't really worth much and is ripe for a beating, or bashing.

 

[stevetam]

Right, Forza is arcadish when it models three different points for tire temps, tire pressure, tire width, and tire flexing. It also models power over-steer much better.

Meanwhile, GT5 doesn't model tire pressure, width, or rim size....or plently of other things.

While GT5 doesn't appear to model that; you cannot say for sure that these variables aren't built in. There has to be some sort of assumption in the model regarding temperature, tire pressure,etc. However in Forza seeing the numbers working lends alot of credibility to the Forza approach. The ability to change the width and pressure of tires is a big +.

 

[Luminis]

Well... I bought a PS3 solely for GT5 and ended up selling it after trying to get into GT5 for about two or three months, with and without a weel (Driving Force GT). I'm sticking with Forza, though, as the game always seemed much more 'finished' and polished to me. I prefer the car selection (no standerd cars), the customization, the offline career mode(s) as well as online multiplayer, mostly thanks to Rivals Mode. Forza's leaderboards just add to that.

My experience with wheels is prettyy limited in both games and I can hardly compare them when it comes to driving with a wheel. I get to play FM4 with a Fanatec GT2 and Clubsport pedals every once in a while at a friend's place. The Driving Force GT, a used one, I might add, is just all around inferior to the GT2, but from what little I can say, I prefer FM4 with a wheel. The Force Feedback feels much more alive, even though that notion might be down to the wheel, not the game. As far as physics go, I do prefer FM4. It seems more indepth when it comes to simulating the aspects of driving and the cars act a bit more like what I'd expect. With a controller, I'd say that FM4 would be my pick, too. GT5 felt like the controller was hard to handle, not the cars. It felt like any difficulties I experienced were artificially created. It just didn't feel as natural as FM4 does.

When it comes to the technical stuff, it's getting a bit closer. GT5's lighting makes it look more realistic than FM4, but it also suffers from more performance issues, like framerate drops, pixelated smoke, flickering shadows, tearing and such. I'd say it's entirely up to personal preference as to what would be considered to be better looking.

Sound wise, it's pretty easy, though: FM4 wins that by a mile.

The biggest upside that GT5 had, for me, at least, has always been the accurate Nordschleife. Time and weather are a nice addition, albeit they're not available on all tracks; it kept me interested for while, but even for a Nordschleife maniac like me, it gets old after a while.

Would I recommend to switch from GT5 to FM4? Yes, I would, if it can be done without spending lots of money on the process. To me, going from GT5 to FM4 would be an upgrade. However, not an upgrade I'd spent a few hundred bucks on, I guess...

While GT5 doesn't appear to model that; you cannot say for sure that these variables aren't built in. There has to be some sort of assumption in the model regarding temperature, tire pressure,etc.

This topic has been debated quite a few times, so I'll keep this short. Extensive testing on GTPlanet indicated (to not use the word shown) that the tyres act as simple grip multipliers. That would mean that there's no need to model things like tyre temperature, tyre pressure or anything. Or rather, it doesmn't change between cold and hot tyres.

 

[Chagen46]

Then there's the using a controller in Forza vs a wheel in GT5. Any truly objective person would readily admit they can't form an opinion from this fact alone."

I use a controller in FM4 and a wheel in GT5 and I can still say without any hesitation that FM4 still is more realistic.

 

[doctorrg]

So my question is for those who have both GT5 and FM4, and or have played both. How do they really compare as far as the feel of the racing and stuff? How is the online racing modes? Has anyone up here moved to FM4 from GT5? Seriously thinking of dropping my Gran Turismo exclusivity for this.

Well, it seems I've actually dropped GT5 for FM4, though I'm not sure whether it's entirely, and it's most certainly not for the feel of the racing. To me, both are different, and both take some getting used to, but I'd be hard pressed to declare one to be better than the other (mind you, I used to think GT5 was "better" before I really started getting into FM4, now that I've gotten used to it, it's just different, not better or worse). There's one thing about FM4 I do hate with a passion, though, and it's the "sticky grass". This got to be the most annoying feature, especially if you're coming from GT5. Search for it on the forum. It may well happen that you're driving a hard line over the kerb, with two tires still on the road, and your car stops dead, magically (for the lack of a better word). It's the most annoying feature ever in any racing game I've seen to date (yes, that's my personal opinion). Apart from that, I've gotten used to FM4 well enough to not miss the differences from GT5. So, why then have I dropped GT5 for FM4? I'm sure the Auction House had a part in it, but more so the Storefront, with the ability to just buy great tunes and awesome liveries/paints. I've gotten so hooked on custom liveries/paints, that I don't think I'll be buying any other racing game without it. And to think that there was a time when I was content with chrome paints in GT5?

Well, that said, if all that isn't important to you, and all you're interested in is the feel of the racing, then I'm not sure it's worth the investment, as I don't think you'd get enough of a positive difference in order to warrant the price tag.

 

[Phoenix]

I don't think he's bashing you as much as he's bashing your opinion which is fair game. Especially when the opinion doesn't have much legs to stand on.

Then there's the using a controller in Forza vs a wheel in GT5. Any truly objective person would readily admit they can't form an opinion from this fact alone. Add to that we have no idea what settings you are using in Forza vs GT5 and you have a situation where the opinion isn't really worth much and is ripe for a beating, or bashing.

As I said, I use controller in FM4, and I now use a G27 in GT5.

Why? Because I don't think Forza is worth spending $5-600 on a wheel, while I thought GT5 was.

And if I just pop in GT5 and do a seasonal with the DS3, I still find GT5 more enjoyable...
Again, this is my opinion.

I read your opinion and it seems to be of the "if it's hard it must be real" camp. If cars drove in real life like they drive in GT5 the death rate on the world's highways would be quadrupled easily from what they are now.

If you prefer Forza's physics over GT5, thats your choice. I prefer GT5.

As to which settings im using, its ABS set to 1, and the rest off in both games, aswell as manual gearing.
Im not a serious sim racing driver, I play the games to enjoy them.

Now, peace out.

 

[doctorrg]

And if I just pop in GT5 and do a seasonal with the DS3, I still find GT5 more enjoyable...
Again, this is my opinion.

And a fair opinion it is. But you know people don't like the word "arcade(ish)" to describe their game of choice, even if it is only expressing an opinion, don't you?

 

[Phoenix]

And a fair opinion it is. But you know people don't like the word "arcade(ish)" to describe their game of choice, even if it is only expressing an opinion, don't you?

Yeah I know what you mean, but I felt arcade(ish) was the best suited word to describe my opinion.

Don't get me wrong though, Forza is alot of fun and a great game.

 

[imported_phillkillv2]

This is a thread to help the guy that was asking a question , not to compare the two. There is a GTvsFM thread.

 

[ImaRobot]

As I said, I use controller in FM4, and I now use a G27 in GT5.

Why? Because I don't think Forza is worth spending $5-600 on a wheel, while I thought GT5 was.

What he's getting at though is how can you start a comparison when its not an even playing field? Yes gt5 might seem more real to you, but the fact is your using a wheel with it. That alone is going to add a whole lot of realism over Forza, if your just going to be using a pad on it. That's why your opinion was singled out like that.

So my question is for those who have both GT5 and FM4, and or have played both. How do they really compare as far as the feel of the racing and stuff? How is the online racing modes? Has anyone up here moved to FM4 from GT5? Seriously thinking of dropping my Gran Turismo exclusivity for this.

Online modes, Forza wins by a long shot. So many different types of gameplays, all of which have pre-designated sections. Anything from drag, drift, to circuit racing, or point to point. They even have soccer matches, like what Top Gear has done on a few episodes. While they are both equally fun in my opinion, what drew me to Forza was the little things like tuning options, customization, all cars have the same quality, and the solid frame rate.

There are things i miss from GT5. For instance, night racing, the photomode it had, the lighting engine, and that you where able to sort of "free run" in online lobby's without a race having to start.

 

[Phoenix]

What he's getting at though is how can you start a comparison when its not an even playing field? Yes gt5 might seem more real to you, but the fact is your using a wheel with it. That alone is going to add a whole lot of realism over Forza, if your just going to be using a pad on it. That's why your opinion was singled out like that.

Even with DS3, I prefer GT5. Was using the DS3 for about 9 months in GT5, before I got the G27.
And a DS3 is as you might know, a controller with a pad. 💡

This is a thread to help the guy that was asking a question , not to compare the two. There is a GTvsFM thread.

And I gave the OP answer to his questions did I not?
Maybe not the answers he expected, but at least I answered.

 

[ImaRobot]

Even with DS3, I prefer GT5. Was using the DS3 for about 9 months in GT5, before I got the G27.
And a DS3 is as you might know, a controller with a pad. 💡

Dont know much about wheels or whatnot so I'm not about to compare the two. Pad for pad though, i feel the 360 version is much easier to use. The PS3 pad seems a bit small, and to be honest is hard to control acceleration because of how small the trigger buttons are(i mapped my buttons to be like every racing game. Why GT5 has acceleration set as "X" or whatever button it was, is kind of odd.) As for the feel on both systems, with a pad, they both seem pretty equal to be honest but when it comes down to things like drifting or powersliding, in my opinion, i think Forza was the better. The problem i had with GT5's racing though is that every car felt like it stuck to the road like glue (minus a few of the high end race cars.)

 

[Corsa]

Changed my original post as I have seen the light. Forza really is a great game.

 

[stevetam]

This topic has been debated quite a few times, so I'll keep this short. Extensive testing on GTPlanet indicated (to not use the word shown) that the tyres act as simple grip multipliers. That would mean that there's no need to model things like tyre temperature, tyre pressure or anything. Or rather, it doesmn't change between cold and hot tyres.

Doesn't that indicate that values are just locked at a set value that they used during their modelling? Although the tire multiplier, no one can deny that. From comforts to race softs; there is an absolute certainty that grip levels are multiplied.

A grip multiplier does not imply that a certain temperature and pressure wasn't modeled as a fact. I'm theorizing that PD used a static tire model opposed to a dynamic model. I'm not going to get into another argument like this again, I'm out. [Please don't pull Ocham's Razor like someone else pulled on me]

 

[Northstar]

Forza feels utilitarian like an arcade game should.

GT has passion and soul in the feedback.

Both games have the passion and soul of a concrete statue.

 

[Chagen46]

Running a CSR Elite on both games.

Forza feels utilitarian like an arcade game should.

GT has passion and soul in the feedback.


To the OP, I wouldn't recommend leaving GT5 for Forza when you can have the best of both worlds. GT is a driver, Forza is a customizer.

Typical GT-fan rhetoric. You don't have an argument, so you use vague terms that can't really be debated. "Passion and soul" in the FF? WTF are you even talking about?

 

[Luminis]

Doesn't that indicate that values are just locked at a set value that they used during their modelling? Although the tire multiplier, no one can deny that. From comforts to race softs; there is an absolute certainty that grip levels are multiplied.

A grip multiplier does not imply that a certain temperature and pressure wasn't modeled as a fact. I'm theorizing that PD used a static tire model opposed to a dynamic model. I'm not going to get into another argument like this again, I'm out. [Please don't pull Ocham's Razor like someone else pulled on me]

Erm... Locking those values and using a static tyre model would make that part of the tyre model entirely pointless. The reason to simulate tyre pressure and temperature in the first place is because they're constantly changing and, thus, affecting the car's behaviour.

If you just lock them to a single value each, they're not going to change, ever; the car will always behave the same, whether it's in the first lap with cold tyres or in the sixth with hot tyres.

Also, what would you want to simulate? If there's tyre pressure and temperature, you have to have an engine that changes those variables dependinc on the inputs it gets. I doubt that anyone would implement an engine capable of doing all of those calculations and then just lock the variables to a single value each. Well, unless the tyre model didn't work at all and this was the easiest fix they came up with.

Let me put it this way:
PD's model: 2+2=4. It's never going to deviate from that.
T10's model: (If friction = high, then tyre temperature +1 per minute) + (if friction = high then tyre pressure +1 per minute) = X

Just a very basic 'sketch' of what I'm trying to say. Locking the tyre model means that it isn't influenced by anything, anyways - so, if your result is and always will be for, why perform complicated calculations to get there? And if all of that was in place, I'd go Chackie Chan on PD for locking the variables, really

 

[t.o.]

What he's getting at though is how can you start a comparison when its not an even playing field? Yes gt5 might seem more real to you, but the fact is your using a wheel with it. That alone is going to add a whole lot of realism over Forza, if your just going to be using a pad on it. That's why your opinion was singled out like that.

Didn't think I need to spell it out but I'm glad you did the job for me robot

Running a CSR Elite on both games.

Forza feels utilitarian like an arcade game should.

GT has passion and soul in the feedback.


To the OP, I wouldn't recommend leaving GT5 for Forza when you can have the best of both worlds. GT is a driver, Forza is a customizer.

Running a 911 Turbo S for almost 2 years now and I can say without a doubt Forza's use of the wheel rips GT5's apart.
Simple math proves this out, unless some update came out in the last few months GT5 does NOT use the two additional motors built in the Fanatec wheels that are cross-platform compatible while Forza does. Why? Because it's a Microsoft thing. Microsoft's wireless wheel came with the main forcefeedback motor and two additional motors for different effects like engine vibration , rumble strips etc. When designing the cross-compt wheels, Fanatec made sure (probably mandated, or made using microsoft's tech easier) their wheels had the same functionality. GT5 only uses the main forcefeedback motor to try to replicate some of that.

So what does that get you? One experience where everything is muddled in the main Forcefeedback motor with nothing having it's distinct feel (GT5) and the other experience where you can clearly and precisely feel everything in it's own distinct way (FM4).

To the OP I wouldn't recommend walking away from GT5, I'd recommend you RUN. lol. Seriously, the physics are a matter of personal choice. I know which feels more realistic and which holds up to what I've seen in 25 years of driving and that would be FM4.

But one thing is clear is the "fun" in Forza is miles ahead of what's in GT5. There's so much to do, let me rephrase that, there's so much that you're going to WANT to do. And have a ton of fun doing it.

I see that over time I've become, for some reason, a HUGE livery and racing nut. I love online racing with a good group and LOVE all the cars out on the track looking like the real deal or something you would see in a race.

Can't do this in GT5 yet. (Hell can't even get the video off the PS3 yet , forget about creating liveries)
All these paintjobs are USER CREATED that you're about to see. None of them came in the game.

 

[buickgnx88]

I used to be a diehard GT "fanboy", and thought that Forza was just "that other racing game". But then I started really looking at it, and was won on simply the car list alone. I got a cheap Xbox, and FM3:CE, and started playing. Right away I loved the event layout, the ability to buy every car from the dealership whenever I wanted, the customization, the sounds, and even the driving. Eventually I picked up an Xbox slim and FM4, and have not touched GT5 in well over a year. If GT5 had turned out a bit more like GT4, but prettier with a few more additions, then I may have been in a different boat today.

 

[ogwaffle2]

I really appreciate all the feedback guys. Have pretty much read all the good points everyone is bringing up. Only thing that is really holding me back is letting go of a year and a half of progress in GT5.. all those cars.. money.. etc.. gone. When i start up GT5 lately the only thing im doing is cashing out in the seasonals, cycling the UCD til i find cars i want, tuning them, freerun the nordschleife til im tired of it, then power off. Pretty boring, but i like having all that stuff! I know i can just go out and buy a 360 and forza and be done with it, but all i need is 1 game system! Don't want 2. Few more questions.. Can you map the gas and brake to the right stick for FM4? That's how i got it set up in GT5.. never really liked the triggers.. just me. Also, will the 4gb slim 360 be enough for FM4 and all the DLC i want? I got a 8gb flash drive i could plug in for more space I've read. Again, thanks for all the input. Can't get this out of my head im totally 50/50 on the decision.. both games have great things that most of us would probably want in ONE PACKAGE FOR ALL CONSOLES!! ha.

 

[buickgnx88]

1) 4GB will not be enough if you want all the DLC. The flash drive would help, however I would either look into the 250gb (check around online and at Best Buy, I got mine for $250) or purchase a larger Xbox (must be Xbox) harddrive and swap it in.

2) Dunno if you can map the controls to the stick, however I do know that the triggers are much better than the PS controller. I used the X and square buttons on GT5, and thought that the triggers would suck for the Xbox controller. I was wrong, and love using the triggers for the gas and brake.

3) If you don't play any other games on the PS3 and only want one system, sell it. Personally I kept my PS3 since I prefer using it to watch movies and videos off my external harddrive. I also have a few games already purchased for it that I play and I'd rather not purchase them again and start over on the Xbox.