Frustrated with Drift

[eDirtyTati]

This is a rant.

I'm sick of drifting. I'm waiting for it to finally die out and go the way of extreme rollerblading.

I'm trying to build a race car and run it in a NASA amateur series with my friend's car shop and it's been a year of convincing to finally get a "Yes, but we ain't got the money." This is a company that mostly does show cars, so even that was a huge triumph for me! Huzzah! I got the title "Director of Motorsport" and the go ahead to plan.

I think I figured out where to get the money and I excitedly text him today about it. He says "The guys at Hoonigan and Fifteen52 say drifting is the way to go, more publicity."

Insert epic eye roll here. I said I wanna go racing, not dragging a car's ass around a track. Drifting in no way proves any of the products we're developing and releasing this year and next (our own coilover kit and a big brake kit with Wilwood) actually work and last. And icing on the cake: both Hoonigan and Fifteen52 may post all sorts of gaudy videos about drifting but at the end of the day their real sponsorship dollars are put behind real racing: Ken Block - a rally driver.

I just need the world to realize that drifting can't ever hold a candle to real racing. It's definitely a hoot to watch and do, but it's a complete waste of money and sponsorship dollars. Not to mention a contributor to the ruin of some fantastic cars (anybody remember the times when you could get a fantastic Nissan 240 in the U.S. without a bent frame, shot motor from being redlined to ****, and a gearbox whose synchros weren't worn smooth?)

I'm only 27. I'm not old enough to be this grumpy and ornery.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

I completely agree with you on all points.

 

[Downhill Dino]

Basically, I agree completely as well.

 

[v13esim]

I am fanatical about both motorsports. But I do agree with you. Drifting is really the art of car control, and in some cases drifting may prove faster in some corners (i.e. rotating a car to avoid understeer, etc.). It is pretty hyped in the U.S. and its starting to gain a lot of mainstream attention, that's where the sponsors are heading to, you have to remember, sponsors are playing the game of business, not racing. They get more attention at a FD event then a NASA event. Although if you do watch some drifting in Japan (or some reasons KT started drifting) Its found they car has much speed and momentum through a corner and by using the inertia of the vehicle sideways to slow down.

What class are you racing in NASA? I have been going with two different drivers that race in the Honda Challenge (H1 class) to learn and get my foot into the racing world.

 

[eDirtyTati]

I am fanatical about both motorsports. But I do agree with you. Drifting is really the art of car control, and in some cases drifting may prove faster in some corners (i.e. rotating a car to avoid understeer, etc.). It is pretty hyped in the U.S. and its starting to gain a lot of mainstream attention, that's where the sponsors are heading to, you have to remember, sponsors are playing the game of business, not racing. They get more attention at a FD event then a NASA event. Although if you do watch some drifting in Japan (or some reasons KT started drifting) Its found they car has much speed and momentum through a corner and by using the inertia of the vehicle sideways to slow down.

What class are you racing in NASA? I have been going with two different drivers that race in the Honda Challenge (H1 class) to learn and get my foot into the racing world.

I hear you, man. And that's why we're going drifting instead of racing. The decision's been made. We were going to build a GTS car. We've got a fresh BMW e30 and a completely built turbo M20 built by Bimmerheads down in SoCal. That fantastic combo is going to do some sliding next year.

I actually wish we would save that M20 and throw in one of our F20Cs. We've got a whole swap kit for F20 into E30 chassis but to save money we're just gonna use what we've got.

Would you race Honda Challenge or some other class?

 

[Youngun]

The only problem with that is now the Japanese series and the US have teamed up to create the Word series and they could be hitting Europe if they can get all the stuff sorted. So instead of dieing out, Formula D is growing. Sorry bud.

 

[Sage Ages]

Not to mention a contributor to the ruin of some fantastic cars (anybody remember the times when you could get a fantastic Nissan 240 in the U.S. without a bent frame, shot motor from being redlined to ****, and a gearbox whose synchros weren't worn smooth?)

I don't think it's necessarily a drifting thing, but a "everyone wants the same damn car thing". Kinda like how Civics are doomed to slammed with fog lights and fake Regamasters and so on.

 

[v13esim]

I hear you, man. And that's why we're going drifting instead of racing. The decision's been made. We were going to build a GTS car. We've got a fresh BMW e30 and a completely built turbo M20 built by Bimmerheads down in SoCal. That fantastic combo is going to do some sliding next year.

I actually wish we would save that M20 and throw in one of our F20Cs. We've got a whole swap kit for F20 into E30 chassis but to save money we're just gonna use what we've got.

Would you race Honda Challenge or some other class?

I was actually building a EJ8 civic so I could compete in the H4 class. I had to sell it to pay for my tuition, hopefully engineering pays good lol. The whole point of the Honda Challenge is the Challenge of driving a fwd car fast. So ive learned how to rotate a ff car through the corners and actually be sideways in one, in some corners this is faster than the traditional out-in-out method. Obviously you have to keep the car pinned and steady around Auto Club Speedway lol. I honestly had barely any respect for FF until I witnessed the Honda Challenge drivers.

I would've done the Spec Z class but only the Z33 and Z34 were allowed to compete, not my Z32. Spec Miata is another good class, a lot of competition and some good pay out. I was actually looking into the E30 class the NASA has, I am in need of a cheap car for college duty, I'm looking at E30's right now, anything I should look for so i can make it a reliable daily/track car? Im looking into 325i's as of right now, which model would give me the most bang for my buck?

 

[eDirtyTati]

I was actually building a EJ8 civic so I could compete in the H4 class. I had to sell it to pay for my tuition, hopefully engineering pays good lol. The whole point of the Honda Challenge is the Challenge of driving a fwd car fast. So ive learned how to rotate a ff car through the corners and actually be sideways in one, in some corners this is faster than the traditional out-in-out method. Obviously you have to keep the car pinned and steady around Auto Club Speedway lol. I honestly had barely any respect for FF until I witnessed the Honda Challenge drivers.

I would've done the Spec Z class but only the Z33 and Z34 were allowed to compete, not my Z32. Spec Miata is another good class, a lot of competition and some good pay out. I was actually looking into the E30 class the NASA has, I am in need of a cheap car for college duty, I'm looking at E30's right now, anything I should look for so i can make it a reliable daily/track car? Im looking into 325i's as of right now, which model would give me the most bang for my buck?

Yeah, racing an FF car is no joke, but is definitely rewarding if you can make one go fast! WTCC is sick.

Spec E30 is pretty cool too, and super cheap. For E30s, look for rust free, obviously. Since you're in Cali like me, I don't imagine that'll be a problem.

325i's are great, obviously. For best bang for the buck, look for one that came with the optional limited-slip diff. You'll definitely want that for spec E30. We mine junkyards for them and can get several hundred dollars for one without a rebuild. Some also had an LSD swapped in by a previous owner. 3.73 gears are desirable. The way to tell is that on the diff cover you'll see the gearing (3.73, 4.10, etc.) and there will be an S after that. If it's too dirty or you can't lift the car up that much, you can do the tried and true LSD test. Lift the rear enough to get the tires off the ground, spin one. If they spin in the same direction, it's LSD.

The 325IS came with an LSD standard.

Stay away from just plain "325" or "325e" cars. Those came with the eta motor. It's the same basic M20 as in the i or is models, but came with a different, low-revving head for fuel efficiency. It also has a different crank/piston set, which strokes the motor to 2.7 liters instead of 2.5 for more low-end torque. For spec e30 you're required to run the 2.5 and run the i head so it would just cost you more money to convert one. Rebuilt heads can go anywhere from $800-$1250 so that alone is a huge chunk of what the car is worth.

318s are also great cars, but again...not legal for spec e30.

 

[v13esim]

Yeah, racing an FF car is no joke, but is definitely rewarding if you can make one go fast! WTCC is sick.

Spec E30 is pretty cool too, and super cheap. For E30s, look for rust free, obviously. Since you're in Cali like me, I don't imagine that'll be a problem.

325i's are great, obviously. For best bang for the buck, look for one that came with the optional limited-slip diff. You'll definitely want that for spec E30. We mine junkyards for them and can get several hundred dollars for one without a rebuild. Some also had an LSD swapped in by a previous owner. 3.73 gears are desirable. The way to tell is that on the diff cover you'll see the gearing (3.73, 4.10, etc.) and there will be an S after that. If it's too dirty or you can't lift the car up that much, you can do the tried and true LSD test. Lift the rear enough to get the tires off the ground, spin one. If they spin in the same direction, it's LSD.

The 325IS came with an LSD standard.

Stay away from just plain "325" or "325e" cars. Those came with the eta motor. It's the same basic M20 as in the i or is models, but came with a different, low-revving head for fuel efficiency. It also has a different crank/piston set, which strokes the motor to 2.7 liters instead of 2.5 for more low-end torque. For spec e30 you're required to run the 2.5 and run the i head so it would just cost you more money to convert one. Rebuilt heads can go anywhere from $800-$1250 so that alone is a huge chunk of what the car is worth.

318s are also great cars, but again...not legal for spec e30.

Ahh so much information thank you. I am actually in Utah right now for college, but I doubt I will buy a car here, probably come back down to California for one. I'm sure these can handle snow as well. I've actually been driving my friends Dodge Charger in the snow and its not bad lol

 

[eDirtyTati]

Ahh so much information thank you. I am actually in Utah right now for college, but I doubt I will buy a car here, probably come back down to California for one. I'm sure these can handle snow as well. I've actually been driving my friends Dodge Charger in the snow and its not bad lol

You're very welcome. If you have more questions, just PM me.

And if you're in Utah, check closely for rust. And make sure you get the rust-proof coating updated if it hasn't been done in several years. You can buy a few cans of the stuff and do it yourself to get the underbelly. They do decent in snow. The smaller wheel base makes them a little harder to swing around on you. If you can handle a Charger in snow, you can definitely handle an e30. The 325ix is all wheel drive so if you can find one of those (kind of rare), it's money in the bank! But you can't race spec e30 with one.

 

[CarBastard]

You're very welcome. If you have more questions, just PM me.

Besides the rant about drifting, which I wholeheartedly agree with, I think I'll PM you with some other questions that your thread made pop into my mind if you're ok with that. Your thread is, simply put, all kinds of awesome

 

[MrWednesday]

If you're interested in doing cheap racing, but without necessarily any path to professional series, I'd suggest looking at ChumpCar, LeMons, or the new World Racing League.

 

[eDirtyTati]

Besides the rant about drifting, which I wholeheartedly agree with, I think I'll PM you with some other questions that your thread made pop into my mind if you're ok with that. Your thread is, simply put, all kinds of awesome

Thanks for the compliment, @CarBastard. I'll be glad to answer anything I can.

If you're interested in doing cheap racing, but without necessarily any path to professional series, I'd suggest looking at ChumpCar, LeMons, or the new World Racing League.

Yeah, those series are fun. But every time I get my hands on a beater I or my friends end up turning it into a show car or something. I just can't keep it Chumpy. LOL!

Edit: I realize now that you were probably trying to give @v13esim cheap racing advice, not me. Why do I always have to make it about me?

 

[MrWednesday]

It's general advice.

 

[uMadson?]

Just saying, at the end of the day, large companies will not care about what you say about drifting if it does bring more money to them. Good luck telling leading tire manufacturers like Yokohama that their investment in drifting is a huge waste, lel. And I don't think you can also convince renowned tuning names like RE Amemiya and HKS that being in D1GP is a waste too. Also, Ken Nomura was even sponsored by Norton Antivirus once, can't you believe it? And on the topic of business, ever wondered why Achilles Radial became known to the world all of a sudden?

Blame the wannabes thinking going around rotundas is drifting. Leave actual drifting alone. Like what @v13esim said, drifting is an art. Something Manabu Orido and Nobuteru Taniguchi, two world-class professional race car drivers, even bothered to master it. If it doesn't hold a candle to racing, then tell me why it is still an internationally recognized phenomenon. And tell me why acrobatics is considered an Olympic sport. I don't care if you don't like drifting or not, but flat out saying that it deserves to die off? You guys are boring.

Not directed at OP, but at others thinking drifting is a waste of time, money and effort. Glad to see @eDirtyTati accept the facts, and good luck with your E30 build. And if you're frustrated with that call, slammed scenesters and wannabe roundabout "drifters" are the proper people to lash out on, not us genuine fans of drifting

 

[homeforsummer]

ever wondered why Achilles Radial became known to the world all of a sudden?

I had literally never heard of that until just now. I expect you meant "known to that very particular niche of drift enthusiasts".

 

[eDirtyTati]

Just saying, at the end of the day, large companies will not care about what you say about drifting if it does bring more money to them.

Yeah, we know.

If it doesn't hold a candle to racing, then tell me why it is still an internationally recognized phenomenon.

Honestly, arguing about how popular something has gotten isn't a valid argument for how good it is. Harlem Shake videos took over the world a few months ago. Gangnam Style sold 11,000,000 copies and got many times that in Youtube views. That being said, I agree that drifting takes extreme amounts of talent and concentration to pull off well (hence, why professional drivers take the time to learn it). When something is popular, it just means that it caters to a base instinct shared by a mass of people. Some would say drifting appeals to the lowest common denominator amongst us car nuts, which is not always the most intelligent. That is not a dig at drift fans. I'm just saying that drifting is popular for very basic reasons. It looks great, it's loud, the cars are pretty (if the driver's any good), and there's lots of smoke. Oh, and bright colors. It doesn't require even a fraction of the intelligence grip racing takes.

As far as art goes, grip racing and doing it well is absolutely an art form and it requires more involvement than drifting requires. Drifting is stupid hard, especially with the type of power these guys are putting down. I get that. But grip racing is a whole other level. It's insanely hard to get a fast, accurate lap out of a powerful, lightweight car. It becomes close to impossible trying to do that AND dodge other guys who are doing the same thing, fighting to get their cars into the same spot in a tight turn and trying to get around you. You've got to get yourself out to a local race one of these days and roam the paddocks during the race.

Even outside of the driver him or herself, the crew is a band of artists. Imagine you're in the thick of it on the inside of the pit wall. You've got a a chief engineer working with assistants to come up with pit, tire, and fuel strategies while trying to stay within the rules. They're having to adjust that pit strategy due to weather conditions, on track incidents, or mechanical issues, all the while staying glued to timing and telemetry screens to make sure the car is running right, the driver is making the most of his available grip and aero, and watching out for conditions that might make the next lap that much harder or a golden opportunity. It's frantic, it's loud, you never get a break.

Now switch to the mechanics. Once they hear "Pit next lap," "I've got damage," or "I've got a flat" over the headset ice fills their veins and they spring into action. They have just long enough to make sure their fire suits and helmets are secure, grab their tools and parts, then get into position. The driver screeches to a stop in pit lane and the crew vaults over the wall to meet the car. The air jack guy slams the compressed air into the back of the car to lift it up. One guy is ripping the driver out of his seatbelt for the driver switch, another guy is breaking his arm wiping the window down, while 4-8 crew members try to pull off the fastest tire change in history. The fuel guy is trying to stuff gallons of flammable liquid as fast as possible without spilling any of it. Two or three mechanics are trying to rip away damaged body work and tape what's left back together. The lollipop guys is standing there nervous hoping he doesn't let the car go before the new wheels and tires are secure or before the fuel guy pulls the nose out. The driver is tense, poised and waiting to hit the starter switch and peel off again. The crew chief is sitting there just hoping the car will start at all (major side eye here to prototype challenge cars in the ALMS).

BAM!!! The lollipop is up, the driver jams the start button and the car fires up with a roar. He spins the tires to get some heat into them while peeling out, narrowly avoiding a collision with his rival who left the pit at the same time. He drives the rest of pit lane at an agonizingly slow 50 m.p.h. but once he hits the pit end it's a drag race with the guy coming down the front straight to turn 1 and a few more laps of dog fighting before doing it all again.

None of that happens in drifting. NONE of it. Some guys build a car, they test it, they prep it. Some guy slides it around for 15 seconds at a time on a "course". Everyone goes home.

 

[uMadson?]

Honestly, arguing about how popular something has gotten isn't a valid argument for how good it is. Harlem Shake videos took over the world a few months ago. Gangnam Style sold 11,000,000 copies and got many times that in Youtube views. That being said, I agree that drifting takes extreme amounts of talent and concentration to pull off well (hence, why professional drivers take the time to learn it). When something is popular, it just means that it caters to a base instinct shared by a mass of people. Some would say drifting appeals to the lowest common denominator amongst us car nuts, which is not always the most intelligent. That is not a dig at drift fans. I'm just saying that drifting is popular for very basic reasons. It looks great, it's loud, the cars are pretty (if the driver's any good), and there's lots of smoke. Oh, and bright colors. It doesn't require even a fraction of the intelligence grip racing takes.

As far as art goes, grip racing and doing it well is absolutely an art form and it requires more involvement than drifting requires. Drifting is stupid hard, especially with the type of power these guys are putting down. I get that. But grip racing is a whole other level. It's insanely hard to get a fast, accurate lap out of a powerful, lightweight car. It becomes close to impossible trying to do that AND dodge other guys who are doing the same thing, fighting to get their cars into the same spot in a tight turn and trying to get around you. You've got to get yourself out to a local race one of these days and roam the paddocks during the race.

Even outside of the driver him or herself, the crew is a band of artists. Imagine you're in the thick of it on the inside of the pit wall. You've got a a chief engineer working with assistants to come up with pit, tire, and fuel strategies while trying to stay within the rules. They're having to adjust that pit strategy due to weather conditions, on track incidents, or mechanical issues, all the while staying glued to timing and telemetry screens to make sure the car is running right, the driver is making the most of his available grip and aero, and watching out for conditions that might make the next lap that much harder or a golden opportunity. It's frantic, it's loud, you never get a break.

Now switch to the mechanics. Once they hear "Pit next lap," "I've got damage," or "I've got a flat" over the headset ice fills their veins and they spring into action. They have just long enough to make sure their fire suits and helmets are secure, grab their tools and parts, then get into position. The driver screeches to a stop in pit lane and the crew vaults over the wall to meet the car. The air jack guy slams the compressed air into the back of the car to lift it up. One guy is ripping the driver out of his seatbelt for the driver switch, another guy is breaking his arm wiping the window down, while 4-8 crew members try to pull off the fastest tire change in history. The fuel guy is trying to stuff gallons of flammable liquid as fast as possible without spilling any of it. Two or three mechanics are trying to rip away damaged body work and tape what's left back together. The lollipop guys is standing there nervous hoping he doesn't let the car go before the new wheels and tires are secure or before the fuel guy pulls the nose out. The driver is tense, poised and waiting to hit the starter switch and peel off again. The crew chief is sitting there just hoping the car will start at all (major side eye here to prototype challenge cars in the ALMS).

BAM!!! The lollipop is up, the driver jams the start button and the car fires up with a roar. He spins the tires to get some heat into them while peeling out, narrowly avoiding a collision with his rival who left the pit at the same time. He drives the rest of pit lane at an agonizingly slow 50 m.p.h. but once he hits the pit end it's a drag race with the guy coming down the front straight to turn 1 and a few more laps of dog fighting before doing it all again.

None of that happens in drifting. NONE of it. Some guys build a car, they test it, they prep it. Some guy slides it around for 15 seconds at a time on a "course". Everyone goes home.

There's more to drifting than just sliding around, bro.

A team in drifting also works like that. Take a look at this video. It compares a privateer and a tuner-backed team in D1GP, and what a team is comprised of. Tell me drifting lacks mechanics and intelligence.

Also, what drifting lacks in seriousness, makes up in entertainment and character- Ken Nomura acting like a monkey, Tetsuya Hibino thinking he's cool and Manabu Orido generally goofing around. The commentators screaming at the top of their lungs every second of the clock. Those give life to drifting.

I'm not saying that drifting > grip racing. You like grip racing more, that's fine. But drifting and grip racing are apples and oranges. Drifting is meant to be a lighthearted acrobatic show while grip racing is an intense, all-out battle for the top.

 

[eDirtyTati]

There's more to drifting than just sliding around, bro.

A team in drifting also works like that. Take a look at this video. It compares a privateer and a tuner-backed team in D1GP, and what a team is comprised of. Tell me drifting lacks mechanics and intelligence.

Dude, I watched that video like http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/yawn-gif

 

[Wolfe]

Honestly, arguing about how popular something has gotten isn't a valid argument for how good it is...

And ranting about being "sick of" popular things that other people like, and how they should just "die out", doesn't accomplish much of anything beside make you seem like kind of a "grumpy and ornery" jerk. Sorry.

I don't follow drift events, although I enjoy the act of pitching a car sideways myself. Like you, I think the money, organization, and coverage is a tad over-the-top for such a simple activity; it makes more sense to me at the amateur/street level, as a way for guys with lesser means to have fun killing tires in cheap cars. I think the poetic, high art language sometimes used in defense of the sport can be rather dramatic and mushy. And yet I thought your OP was a bit insensitive.

Now, I can sympathize with your frustration at being unable to convince your friend to pursue "proper" motorsports with the resources at your disposal. I'm sorry it worked out that way, but that's also between you and him. You could have vented to us about that, without needlessly incendiary statements like, "I just need the world to realize that drifting can't ever hold a candle to real racing." As a former E30 owner I could point out all of the E46/etc. dudes that use similar language to moan about their "overrated" popularity. People like different things.

In your long response to @uMadson? you make a valid case that "proper" motorsports are more meaningful and involved than drifting in some ways, but I don't think those differences justify dumping the sport. Drifting won't usurp "legitimate" motorsports, and complaining about it won't make it go away, so...it's just there, and if not for your friend's choice, you could just ignore it. Again, it's too bad that you couldn't convince him to invest into motorsports, but I don't think picking a fight over the drift scene itself is the best way to cope with it.

 

[Azure Flare]

It's definitely a hoot to watch and do,

The only good part of drifting, almost everything else about it is ridiculous.

The other things that aren't are tandem drifting, and some of the cars. Stuff like Mad Mike's 4 rotor RX-7 is a highlight for me, as well as ridiculously insane engine swaps (NASCAR engine in a Scion TC, or a blown Nissan Titan V8 in an S15).

 

[eDirtyTati]

The only good part of drifting, almost everything else about it is ridiculous.
The other things that aren't are tandem drifting, and some of the cars. Stuff like Mad Mike's 4 rotor RX-7 is a highlight for me, as well as ridiculously insane engine swaps (NASCAR engine in a Scion TC, or a blown Nissan Titan V8 in an S15).

Haha! The engine swaps are ****in great!!!!! That's why I figured if we were gonna do it, we should do an F20C!!! We have a 2002 rocking one with. It was insane with ITBs. Then we turbo'd that thing. 404 horsepower in a 2002 is...well stupid is the only thing that comes to mind.

I'm just salty cuz I have to spend a significant chunk of my 2014 running a team in a sport I don't like. If it weren't for that, I wouldn't have bothered speaking my mind on it. Drifting's been around for a while and I haven't cared enough to say anything. But this was my post sharing my opinion on a public forum.

And ranting about being "sick of" popular things that other people like, and how they should just "die out", doesn't accomplish much of anything beside make you seem like kind of a "grumpy and ornery" jerk.

I'll be that.

 

[uMadson?]

Dude, I watched that video like http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/yawn-gif

Closed-mindedness renders your arguments invalid.

The other things that aren't are tandem drifting, and some of the cars. Stuff like Mad Mike's 4 rotor RX-7 is a highlight for me, as well as ridiculously insane engine swaps (NASCAR engine in a Scion TC, or a blown Nissan Titan V8 in an S15).

And that's pretty much drifting for the most part.

 

[Azuremen]

I'll be that.

Congrats on making yourself seem like a miserable and trite motorsport hipster. Irony points for complaining while wanting to build was has become one of the most popular "old" cars for motorsports, to the point E30's are honestly over valued.

The fact you "need the world to realize" that grip racing is just sooooo much better than drifting speaks volumes about your ego, and perhaps inability to consider other perspectives. I could just as easily ramble about how boring going around the same track is over and over in comparison to Rally, where people fly down narrow roads they aren't familiar while randomly getting air and sometimes flying into trees. But different strokes for different folks.

Drifting is about shenanigans and doesn't take itself too seriously. And the side effect is that non-car people enjoy it more than the technical grip racing, so it gets more money from sponsors and what not. Now, you can ask yourself what you really hope achieve by acting like an elitist hipster, or just drop the attitude and get a car together on your own. Yes, it is expensive, and you'll seriously have to evaluate what you spend money on, but you can do it.

Or you write walls of text on the Internet bashing all many of popular things, like Gangam Style - which was actually a clever commentary on the social situation in Korea. Harlem Shake came and went so fast I honestly forgot about it.

But at the moment, it just sounds like you have a serious case of butthurt.

 

[eDirtyTati]

Congrats on making yourself seem like a miserable and trite motorsport hipster. Irony points for complaining while wanting to build was has become one of the most popular "old" cars for motorsports, to the point E30's are honestly over valued.

The fact you "need the world to realize" that grip racing is just sooooo much better than drifting speaks volumes about your ego, and perhaps inability to consider other perspectives. I could just as easily ramble about how boring going around the same track is over and over in comparison to Rally, where people fly down narrow roads they aren't familiar while randomly getting air and sometimes flying into trees. But different strokes for different folks.

Drifting is about shenanigans and doesn't take itself too seriously. And the side effect is that non-car people enjoy it more than the technical grip racing, so it gets more money from sponsors and what not. Now, you can ask yourself what you really hope achieve by acting like an elitist hipster, or just drop the attitude and get a car together on your own. Yes, it is expensive, and you'll seriously have to evaluate what you spend money on, but you can do it.

Or you write walls of text on the Internet bashing all many of popular things, like Gangam Style - which was actually a clever commentary on the social situation in Korea. Harlem Shake came and went so fast I honestly forgot about it.

But at the moment, it just sounds like you have a serious case of butthurt.

I wonder if the "commentary police" popping up on my thread realize that they sound just like me.

I hate drifting, you hate opinions. Welcome to the bitter club.

 

[Azuremen]

I wonder if the "commentary police" popping up on my thread realize that they sound just like me.

I hate drifting, you hate opinions. Welcome to the bitter club.

Considering most people consider me among the most opinionated members on the forum, I'm pretty certain I don't hate opinions.

What I do hate is people bitching about what other people choose to like. I can understand your frustration with getting support for your project, but coming off as a pretentious ass certainly isn't going to help with that. The commentary police are all saying they understand, but generally aren't agreeing with your absurd position of flat out hating on drifting and your attitude of snubbing that community because you feel it is inferior to "true" motorsports.

 

[eDirtyTati]

Considering most people consider me among the most opinionated members on the forum, I'm pretty certain I don't hate opinions.

What I do hate is people bitching about what other people choose to like. I can understand your frustration with getting support for your project, but coming off as a pretentious ass certainly isn't going to help with that. The commentary police are all saying they understand, but generally aren't agreeing with your absurd position of flat out hating on drifting and your attitude of snubbing that community because you feel it is inferior to "true" motorsports.

So what you're saying is you hate opinions. Got it.

 

[uMadson?]

So what you're saying is you hate opinions. Got it.

So what you're saying is that you're a very closed-minded individual. Got it.

 

[Downhill Dino]

This was a nice thread. What has happened.