Gallardo Superleggera

[Tornado]

That is the dry weight. The kerb weight is 1520.

 

[McLaren]

First off, I'll apologize because I suddenly confused the part about fake carbon fibre with this new Gallardo. I thought he said the carbon on the Gallardo was fake. If I had really read it clearly, I wouldn't have made that mistaked.

On the part of seeing a 40th, I have actually. And as for it being fake, Lamborghini technically say that by calling it a carbon fibre coating.

Mathematically, that works out so that after 11 years there will be 17 Gallardo's, all of them probably being crap; instead of that 15 to 11 year Diablo (even though there was actually only 12 variations of the Diablo), and 13 Murcielago's in 11 years. So, what is your point?

Actually, I was including the SV Monterey Edition, Alpine Edition, and SE30 Jota since Doug included the Gallardo Momo.

That would be the case if the Gallardo was

1. An actual Lamborghini.
2. Not a piece of trash. Even after all of these "refreshings." When Lamborghini redid the Diablo, they gave it AWD, more power, better driving matters, etc. The Gallardo has been screwed with 4 times already and it is still crap.
   

Niether of these things apply to the Gallardo, and Lamborghini continues to ignore the problems pretty much every has acknowledged it has by just adding more BHP occasionally or offering random special editions that also don't fix the car.

That's fine. But it doesn't change the fact it's still a great car. The company doesn't build their cars with the best things just say, "Hey, we beat Ferrari."
They really don't care about it that. They build their cars just for enthusiasts to enjoy.

Besides, have you not seen Clarkson's review of the Gallardo Spyder? He loved it. As he said, "Ferrari's sound like a whine. This though, sounds like a monster."

But as for the part where I confused the fake cf, had the Superleggera been considered worthless, so had all the cars I mentioned.

P.S. If YSSMAN is so worried about this car coming to the US and dealing with Detroit, he won't have to worry. The car will not be available through U.S. or Japan dealers. Pity for me.
P.P.S. The car weighs 1330 kg meaning it's lighter than a GT3 RS.

 

[Tornado]

First off, I'll apologize because I suddenly confused the part about fake carbon fibre with this new Gallardo. I thought he said the carbon on the Gallardo was fake. If I had really read it clearly, I wouldn't have made that mistaked.

Okay. I thought you were losing it.

P.P.S. The car weighs 1330 kg meaning it's lighter than a GT3 RS.

It probably weighs that much dry, so no, it really doesn't. It isn't even close. The GT3 RS weighs 1375kg kerb. If the 1330 figure is dry weight (as it most likely is, based on the press releases), it will actually end up being about the same as the Corvette Z06, give or take a few kg.

 

[Dave A]

I'm with Toronado on the weight thing, I remember debating car weights and a lambo's came into the debate and I said it's in a similar bracket to everyhing else, but upon further investigation it wasn't, because all the other weights were kerb, the lambo's was dry. Lamborghini have a tendency to give out the dry weight instead of the kerb weight and it throws people off.

As for this car, if it's got plenty of improvments under the skin then regardless of it only gaining 30bhp and losing 100kgs it should be notably different in performance and to drive.

 

[///M-Spec]

According to Road&Track, the Galladro's curb weight is 3560lb (DATA PANEL). Car and Driver has the Gallardo at 3560 as well.

That's 1,614.8 kg.

Dropping 560 lbs. is highly unlikely. In fact, C&D reports a weight savings of only 154 lbs in THIS article. I don't know which is correct, but I'm going to lean towards the C&D and R&T numbers.

That's too bad. But 154 lbs is better than nothing, I suppose.


M

 

[Tornado]

Holy hell. That's even heavier than I thought.

 

[exigeracer]

I totally forgot about this thread.

At least with this, you get a lot more performance. And I don't see how you can decide the carbon fibre is fake when you haven't seen it in person either.

Who there, son. Really, really lame presumption. How would you know?

I have seen it. I've even felt it. It is far from 20,000$ good.

 

[///M-Spec]

Holy hell. That's even heavier than I thought.

Yeah, but in the context of things it ain't that bad.

The similarly powerful 997 Turbo --not a car most people accuse of being a complete porker- is only 65 lighter at 3,495lbs.

The Gallardo aquits itself well for its weight as well. It matches the Porsche through the quarter mile and traps slightly faster, meaning it is pulling away at the finish line. This is the TURBO here, a tremendous car in almost any context.

It also smokes the Porsche in the slalom, pulls more gs on the skidpad and then goes out and runs the 2nd fastest laps in that comparo. Not too bad for a 3500+ lb car in the company of lightweights, really...


M

 

[YSSMAN]

f the Gallardo Spyder? He loved it. As he said, "Ferrari's sound like a whine. This though, sounds like a monster."

Spyder is the keyword there, and in fact, I'm in complete agreement with Clarkson when it comes to the car in that regard. The coupe is useless against much of the competition, weight being a lot of the problem, and the other German-influenced numbness issues.

...Just like Clarkson, I'd take the convert, and as a matter of fact it is probably one of my favorite Lamborghinis in that form. But coupe wise, I just don't see it as a viable option against the F430, 911 Turbo, Z06, or SRT-10... And we all know what car I'd pick out of that grouping...

P.S. If YSSMAN is so worried about this car coming to the US and dealing with Detroit, he won't have to worry. The car will not be available through U.S. or Japan dealers. Pity for me.

I'm really not sure thats what I had meant, but did we really get any of the special editions before? Maybe the SE?

I doubt the guys in Detroit are sweating it even when considering their European markets. For some strange reason American cars are popular in Europe (something documented by Top Gear various times), so there may be more novelty to a Z06 or SRT-10 despite the fact that the Gallardo may indeed be "rarer" than the other two.

 

[///M-Spec]

But coupe wise, I just don't see it as a viable option against the F430, 911 Turbo, Z06, or SRT-10... And we all know what car I'd pick out of that grouping...

I'm curious what makes the Spyder so much better than the standard coupe? Chop the top off a Turbo and it becomes something of a poseur's car. Coupes are almost always better driver's cars.. and this is coming from the owner of a roadster!


M

 

[KSaiyu]

I doubt the guys in Detroit are sweating it even when considering their European markets. For some strange reason American cars are popular in Europe (something documented by Top Gear various times), so there may be more novelty to a Z06 or SRT-10 despite the fact that the Gallardo may indeed be "rarer" than the other two.

I can honestly say I've seen a lot more Gallardos than Z06s around here, so for exclusivity I'd definetly take the Z06.

 

[1X83Z]

I can honestly say I've seen a lot more Gallardos than Z06s around here

Yes, but the Gallardo is its own model, while the C6 Z06 is based on the C6 Corvette, which is about as rare as a Grand Cherokee. Perhaps not in the UK.

 

[TheCracker]

I've never seen any sort of C6 vette or SRT-10 in the UK. Seen plenty of Gallardos mind.

 

[Dave A]

No, it is about as rare as a grand Cherokee, we don't see any of thoes either .

 

[TheCracker]

Really? - i could probably walk home from work (a good 3 miles away) by stepping from roof to roof with all the Grand Cherokees in Sheffield,

 

[Tornado]

I'm curious what makes the Spyder so much better than the standard coupe? Chop the top off a Turbo and it becomes something of a poseur's car. Coupes are almost always better driver's cars.. and this is coming from the owner of a roadster!

With the Spyder, the flaws of the normal car are much more easily ignored.

 

[1X83Z]

With the Spyder, the flaws of the normal car are much more easily ignored.

Agreed. There's something about top-down motoring.

 

[McLaren]

I totally forgot about this thread.



Who there, son. Really, really lame presumption. How would you know?

I have seen it. I've even felt it. It is far from 20,000$ good.

Read above your's. I made a mistake.

I'm really not sure thats what I had meant, but did we really get any of the special editions before? Maybe the SE?

Well, that was my 2nd mistake of this thread.

Anyways, the folks I talked to said the report did not mean the car was not legal, it meant that 4-point seatbelts and tubular framing would not be included in any U.S. orders (the tubular framing won't be available to Middle Eastern or Japanese orders either).

But for what we have recieved, I can personally tell you the U.S. has recieved every Gallardo model to date (excluding the GT3 and Concept S).

 

[KSaiyu]

Yes, but the Gallardo is its own model, while the C6 Z06 is based on the C6 Corvette, which is about as rare as a Grand Cherokee. Perhaps not in the UK.

Sorry, meant C6.

 

[YSSMAN]

I'm curious what makes the Spyder so much better than the standard coupe? Chop the top off a Turbo and it becomes something of a poseur's car. Coupes are almost always better driver's cars.. and this is coming from the owner of a roadster!


M

I think Toronado pretty much had it covered. There is just some strange way in which the Spyder allows for sporting folks to overlook the performance losses, as it is a roadster... Even further, I'd dare to say that the Spyder version looks better than the coupe, and that is something that doesn't occur too often with most sports cars.

...But yes, you are right; Nine times out of ten, the coupe is the better choice...

 

[SlipZtrEm]

...have I just not heard all this negative Gallardo talk because I don't read the American magazines? The Gallardo has received plenty of positive reviews in all its forms from EVO and CAR, and while they have also commented on the Germanic aspects... big deal? A Gallardo took them, in comfort, to the northern ends of the UK and back again, yet it's still an incredibly fast track machine (faster than a Z06, actually). So they've lost a bit of their tempermentalness, but Ferrari has improved their day-to-day useability too and I don't see them taking any flak for it. Actually, I see praise for it. And while the steering feel hasn't outed the 360 CS or 430, it's still been considered above average, and unless the car's as track oriented as a CS, I'd rather it not have steering that wears me out over a few hours.

And this talk about weight... as pointed out, it's only slightly heavier than a 911 Turbo. Nobody complains about that being hugely overweight. Also, the 360 CS was "400 lbs less than 3000"? I'm finding that one hard to believe unless the entire car was built to race-specs with CF. The stock car was around 3200 lbs, how would they have taken 600 out of there?

Meh, maybe I just don't "get" bashing the Gallardo as some terrible excuse of a sports car. I've liked the idea of a baby Lambo since day one, and if it happens to be 911-sized, 911-useable, and packing a much more powerful V10, bonus. I know it isn't as wild and crazy as the old-school Murc, but it was never meant to be.

 

[YSSMAN]

...have I just not heard all this negative Gallardo talk because I don't read the American magazines? The Gallardo has received plenty of positive reviews in all its forms from EVO and CAR, and while they have also commented on the Germanic aspects... big deal?

Most American car magazines have been wishy-washy on the car, but most like it because it is a Lamborghini, but all would prefer the competition over the Lambo when it comes to sports driving. Top Gear as I recall has been quite critical of the car, Clarkson in particular, but like his American counterparts, the Spyder gets off scotch-free.

...yet it's still an incredibly fast track machine (faster than a Z06, actually). So they've lost a bit of their tempermentalness, but Ferrari has improved their day-to-day useability too and I don't see them taking any flak for it.

1) Europeans have no idea how to drive the Z06, so I don't trust any test of the Gallardo against the Z06 in the hands of a German or Italian. A Briton? Sure, go ahead... But when we have the Z06 absolutely destroying the 911 Turbo and the F430 around Hockenheim (a 1.7 second advantage over the 911 Turbo, the F430 floating around in there), and the other two obliterating the Gallardo in most competitions, it is a win by diffusion there.

2) Ferrari may have turned their cars down from 11 to 10, but the reason why we aren't up in arms is that the capability has not decreased. I would have expected the Gallardo to be able to out-do a $70K Corvette, hell even an $85K Viper, or better yet the $100K Porsche Carrera S, but it struggles even against the "standard" Vette Z51 and 911... (and we wonder why Ferrari has several-year waiting lists for the F430...). And while we're on the subject of usability, lets see a Gallardo do a cross-country run in America without any major mechanical failures against a Corvette, and we'll see whats easier to live with day-to-day.

And this talk about weight... as pointed out, it's only slightly heavier than a 911 Turbo. Nobody complains about that being hugely overweight.

Yes, the 911 Turbo is a moderately heavy car by sporting standards, but when it is ripping to 60 MPH in 3.6 seconds well on it's way to nearly 200 MPH, it leaves the Gallardo behind in a cloud of dust. Clever engineering, or just doing things right to begin with... Someone better get Audi on the phone...

Meh, maybe I just don't "get" bashing the Gallardo as some terrible excuse of a sports car. I've liked the idea of a baby Lambo since day one, and if it happens to be 911-sized, 911-useable, and packing a much more powerful V10, bonus. I know it isn't as wild and crazy as the old-school Murc, but it was never meant to be.

I'll admit that the Gallardo is an easy target, and although it may not deserve every knock it gets, most of us aren't going to stand around and let the thing go by without criticizing it in some way. True, I love the idea of a "baby" Lambo, but when it just isn't up to snuff even with the "baby" Corvettes and 911s of the world, that may be a problem performance wise. They're going to get more sales out of the car, and that was Audi's intention (there goes the Germans again!), however that does not mean that usability had to come over the usual Lamborghini quirks, and thereby performance standards set by the Ferraris, 911s, Corvettes, and Vipers of the world.

...We all love the Spyder, but we just have a hard time loving the coupe...

 

[McLaren]

1) Europeans have no idea how to drive the Z06, so I don't trust any test of the Gallardo against the Z06 in the hands of a German or Italian. A Briton? Sure, go ahead... But when we have the Z06 absolutely destroying the 911 Turbo and the F430 around Hockenheim (a 1.7 second advantage over the 911 Turbo, the F430 floating around in there), and the other two obliterating the Gallardo in most competitions, it is a win by diffusion there.

Woah, woah, woah, now stop right there. Europeans can't drive a Z06? Fine. From now on, every test where an American car wins in an American magazine, I'm going to say Americans don't know how drive European cars.

My god, YSSMAN, that sort of statement even if it is in a comparison against a Gallardo is just an 'whiney-baby' excuse. It's as bad as when the Corvette forums were saying a Corvette lost a 911 Turbo because the driver of the Z06 couldn't shift it. They were criticizing a Super GT driver's shift abilties.

As for Hockenheim, it was only 1.2 seconds away. And stop using "Absolutely destroying". Do you even realize that 1 second is actually CLOSE, not destroying? Destroying is murdering both at a track by 10 seconds. Winning by 1 second, a second that could potentially be regained if just a little bit faster is not destroying your competition. You don't even research these times do you? If you did, you'd see there are tracks were the F430 was faster.

Oh that's right. You don't trust Z06 times on European tracks.

2) Ferrari may have turned their cars down from 11 to 10, but the reason why we aren't up in arms is that the capability has not decreased. I would have expected the Gallardo to be able to out-do a $70K Corvette, hell even an $85K Viper, or better yet the $100K Porsche Carrera S, but it struggles even against the "standard" Vette Z51 and 911... (and we wonder why Ferrari has several-year waiting lists for the F430...). And while we're on the subject of usability, lets see a Gallardo do a cross-country run in America without any major mechanical failures against a Corvette, and we'll see whats easier to live with day-to-day.

Oh really? Care to proof these otherwise?

Hockenheim:
Z06 - 1:11.5
Gallardo - 1:11.8

Vairano testtrack:
Z06 - 1:19.5
Gallardo - 1:17.814

Bedford Autodrome:
Z06 - 1:24.45
Gallardo - 1:23.90

Autozeitung test track:
Z06 - 1:39.4
Gallardo - 1:38.2

Oh that's right. You DON'T research your claims and you think Z06s are only proven by Americans.

Yes, the 911 Turbo is a moderately heavy car by sporting standards, but when it is ripping to 60 MPH in 3.6 seconds well on it's way to nearly 200 MPH, it leaves the Gallardo behind in a cloud of dust. Clever engineering, or just doing things right to begin with... Someone better get Audi on the phone...

Now I know you're not doing your research.
Tsukuba:
911 Turbo - 1:04.73
Gallardo - 1:03.6

Hockenheim Shorttrack:
911 Turbo - 1:13.7
Gallardo - 1:11.8

Vairano testtrack:
911 Turbo - 1:19.963
Gallardo - 1:17.814

Bedford Autodrome:
911 Turbo - 1:23.55
Gallardo - 1:23.90

Oschersleben:
911 Turbo - 1:42.74
Gallardo - 1:45.20

Zolder:
911 Turbo - 1:43.85
Gallardo - 1:49.25

Autozeitung test track:
911 Turbo - 1:38.1
Gallardo - 1:38.2

Notice a pattern? It's the fact that if the track is a high-speed and not a big corner-concerened track, the American wins. If it's a tight and twisty track, German engineering prevails, Gallaro or Porsche.

I'll admit that the Gallardo is an easy target, and although it may not deserve every knock it gets, most of us aren't going to stand around and let the thing go by without criticizing it in some way.

It's only easy for you because you don't research your facts.

True, I love the idea of a "baby" Lambo, but when it just isn't up to snuff even with the "baby" Corvettes and 911s of the world, that may be a problem performance wise.

Actually, there might be a performance issue when the "baby" Corvettes and Porsches are getting lap times just within 4-6 seconds of the big and bad Z06 and Turbo.

They're going to get more sales out of the car, and that was Audi's intention (there goes the Germans again!), however that does not mean that usability had to come over the usual Lamborghini quirks, and thereby performance standards set by the Ferraris, 911s, Corvettes, and Vipers of the world.

What standards are these? The SRT-8 Viper got beat on Top Gear, Nordschliefe, Hockenheim Short, Vairano, and Zolder by the Gallardo. So please tell me where these performance standards are by Vipers. And the Corvettes as well. Only the C6 Z06 really beats the Gallardo where as the C5 Z06 falls 3 seconds behind the Gallardo at Hockenheim, or in your words, "The Gallardo absolutely destroys the Corvette C5 Z06." Hell, if you think 1 second difference is destorying, then maybe I should rephrase it as, "The Gallardo just slaughters the C5 Z06 at Hockenheim."

You're just spouting off Corvette information without researching. I'm almost beginning to think you're turning into a Corvette fanboy. I don't want to, but you're giving me that impression when you're just going off info of "supposed" times. It's like you think, "Hey, Corvette won here, so it must win everywhere!"

It's not true. The information I posted above completely proves the theory of Europeans just building cars better around turns, and if you're going to just throw away the Z06 times just because it is NOT up to European engineering (Opps, sorry. Just because the European drivers can't drive), then you're showing extremly pro-GM posts.

Please, check your facts. This is the 2nd time you've posted non-researched times. The first was when you thought a Z06 killed a GT3/RS and Turbo, which is not true on certain occasions.

I respect you too much as a link to General Motors news. Please don't make me think differently.

 

[YSSMAN]

Woah, woah, woah, now stop right there. Europeans can't drive a Z06? Fine. From now on, every test where an American car wins in an American magazine, I'm going to say Americans don't know how drive European cars.

Hey, I often get the feeling that it is the case. Why does it happen so often that the folks at C/D and Automobile, and even the crazies over at Motor Trend are generally able to pull better times than that of their European counterparts? More time with the Corvette certainly helps I suppose given the rarity of the car in Europe, but I certainly cannot verify the ability of every tester at every magazine in the world.

My god, YSSMAN, that sort of statement even if it is in a comparison against a Gallardo is just an 'whiney-baby' excuse. It's as bad as when the Corvette forums were saying a Corvette lost a 911 Turbo because the driver of the Z06 couldn't shift it. They were criticizing a Super GT driver's shift abilties.

Actually the Z06 lost because of its former suspension issues in the C/D test. General Motors addressed the issue with the '07 Z06, and from the more recent tests, it is said that the car is much more stable, easier to control, and rides better as well. With that suspension, as the C/D had said, there would have been a good chance that the Z06 could have beaten the 911 Turbo, and possibly the F430...

But if I recall correctly, I wasn't that upset over the whole thing. I still like the Porsche and Ferrari just as much as the Corvette, and it indeed lost to two awesome cars. It says a lot when $70K buys you that kind of performance.

As for Hockenheim, it was only 1.2 seconds away. And stop using "Absolutely destroying". Do you even realize that 1 second is actually CLOSE, not destroying? Destroying is murdering both at a track by 10 seconds. Winning by 1 second, a second that could potentially be regained if just a little bit faster is not destroying your competition. You don't even research these times do you? If you did, you'd see there are tracks were the F430 was faster.

Oh that's right. You don't trust Z06 times on European tracks.

My understanding has always been that anything near or more than a second is quite a long time at any racetrack. Yes, destroying may have been a rather strong adjective, but it does add to the effect, doesn't it...

Oh that's right. You DON'T research your claims and you think Z06s are only proven by Americans.

I wasn't aware that I had to research every active automotive magazine's database to prove anything to anyone, as I didn't see anyone else demanding that I do so. Certainly the numbers are impressive for the Gallardo, but it still remains that I am somewhat skeptical of some testers. Is that a problem? Yes, probably. Is it my problem? Why it certainly is!

Notice a pattern? It's the fact that if the track is a high-speed and not a big corner-concerened track, the American wins. If it's a tight and twisty track, German engineering prevails, Gallaro or Porsche.

No surprises there quite frankly, as I would expect the high-power cars to do better on tracks that allow for a greater build-up of speed. I have no reason to contest those facts with you...

Actually, there might be a performance issue when the "baby" Corvettes and Porsches are getting lap times just within 4-6 seconds of the big and bad Z06 and Turbo.

Wait, what? Why is it a bad thing that the cheaper models perform well for the price?

What standards are these? The SRT-8 Viper got beat on Top Gear, Nordschliefe, Hockenheim Short, Vairano, and Zolder by the Gallardo. So please tell me where these performance standards are by Vipers. And the Corvettes as well. Only the C6 Z06 really beats the Gallardo where as the C5 Z06 falls 3 seconds behind the Gallardo at Hockenheim, or in your words, "The Gallardo absolutely destroys the Corvette C5 Z06." Hell, if you think 1 second difference is destorying, then maybe I should rephrase it as, "The Gallardo just slaughters the C5 Z06 at Hockenheim."

...So are we talking about the C5 Z06 or the C6 Z06? There is a pretty big difference between the two, and the same can be said of the SRT-10 Viper Roadster and Coupe. As noted, I don't always do the research, so please direct me to the right answer.

You're just spouting off Corvette information without researching. I'm almost beginning to think you're turning into a Corvette fanboy. I don't want to, but you're giving me that impression when you're just going off info of "supposed" times. It's like you think, "Hey, Corvette won here, so it must win everywhere!"

You've just figured out that I like Corvettes? You must not have been around when BX and I ganged-up on other folks...

I respect you too much as a link to General Motors news. Please don't make me think differently.

I think you're a great guy too, but I'm not certain why the hostility is so great. If anything, you're doing what I do for GM and Ford on a regular basis with Lamborghini.

...I really don't care to pick a fight, and you've obviously proven you're point...

Now, I must go bowling!

 

[McLaren]

Hey, I often get the feeling that it is the case. Why does it happen so often that the folks at C/D and Automobile, and even the crazies over at Motor Trend are generally able to pull better times than that of their European counterparts? More time with the Corvette certainly helps I suppose given the rarity of the car in Europe, but I certainly cannot verify the ability of every tester at every magazine in the world.

They may pull better times, but you do realize that there are a LOT of Europeans who disregard the magazines because the times they achieve (esp. Motor Trend) are a bit off what other magazines can do.

Actually the Z06 lost because of its former suspension issues in the C/D test. General Motors addressed the issue with the '07 Z06, and from the more recent tests, it is said that the car is much more stable, easier to control, and rides better as well. With that suspension, as the C/D had said, there would have been a good chance that the Z06 could have beaten the 911 Turbo, and possibly the F430...
But if I recall correctly, I wasn't that upset over the whole thing. I still like the Porsche and Ferrari just as much as the Corvette, and it indeed lost to two awesome cars. It says a lot when $70K buys you that kind of performance.

This was actually, I believe, a Best Motoring deal, not a C&D. Either way, it's a poor excuse to say a professional driver (whose race car is undoubtedly faster than any C6R or almost any other ALMS vehicle) was incorrectly shifting a Z06.

My understanding has always been that anything near or more than a second is quite a long time at any racetrack. Yes, destroying may have been a rather strong adjective, but it does add to the effect, doesn't it...

I only find it a very long time in terms of real life, die-hard racing. Not individual tests where a driver could possible just be a little faster through 1 turn to shave off that second.
I can see how it also adds to the effect, but again, not in individual tests.

I wasn't aware that I had to research every active automotive magazine's database to prove anything to anyone, as I didn't see anyone else demanding that I do so. Certainly the numbers are impressive for the Gallardo, but it still remains that I am somewhat skeptical of some testers. Is that a problem? Yes, probably. Is it my problem? Why it certainly is!

You don't have to research every source, but it helps to include them in your statement before you start saying how the Z06 dominates the F430, 911 Turbo, and Gallardo when the fact is that it really doesn't.

And I can understand being skeptical, but you can't always be at the point where you don't think the time is good enough, esp. when the tester is a professional racer. It's basically saying he's not doing enough even though neither of us could probably do just as good as him.

No surprises there quite frankly, as I would expect the high-power cars to do better on tracks that allow for a greater build-up of speed. I have no reason to contest those facts with you...

Exactly, which is why on any Nordschliefe tests, there is no doubt the Z06 does gain more than just 2-3 seconds on any of the 3 europeans.

Wait, what? Why is it a bad thing that the cheaper models perform well for the price?

It's not bad, but it makes me wonder why I should dish out $30,000 more the Z06 when the C6 Coupe is just 4-6 seconds behind.

...So are we talking about the C5 Z06 or the C6 Z06? There is a pretty big difference between the two, and the same can be said of the SRT-10 Viper Roadster and Coupe. As noted, I don't always do the research, so please direct me to the right answer.

Both really. But my point was that the Gallardo really doesn't have trouble with the "baby" Corvettes, and being that the C5 Z06 was pretty much equal to the C6 Coupe, I posted a 4-second faster time to show that.

I could only find sources for the Viper SRT-10 Roadster. I don't believe the Coupe has had the chance to go through Viorano or Hockenheim yet.

You've just figured out that I like Corvettes? You must not have been around when BX and I ganged-up on other folks...

I know you like Corvettes, but not at the point where you wouldn't check to make sure you weren't giving the Corvette more credit than necessary. It's a wonderful machine, but even if it has challenged Europe's finest, it still falls a bit short on them by maybe, a coupe "inches". It's almost there, but not quite.

I think you're a great guy too, but I'm not certain why the hostility is so great. If anything, you're doing what I do for GM and Ford on a regular basis with Lamborghini.

The hostility was a little much, but you were the last person I expected to say such a thing about Europeans and the Z06, and it was a bit worse to read these statement without the times.

I didn't know you liked Ford though as much as GM.

...I really don't care to pick a fight, and you've obviously proven you're point...

Now, I must go bowling!

I don't either, but I'm just sayin', next time show some more proof the Corvette really is a monster. I know it is, but having something there to prove it even more really makes your statement mean more.

 

[YSSMAN]

I didn't know you liked Ford though as much as GM.

I'm working on liking Ford more than what I used to. Lets put it this way, Ford Europe is as good as it can be with me, and in America I'm doing my best with the various models, Mustang in particular.

...Chrysler gets some love now and again, and I'm trying hard to be objective with them, but when they (and Ford) screw things up so bad, I'm happy to point them out...

 

[McLaren]

I'm working on liking Ford more than what I used to. Lets put it this way, Ford Europe is as good as it can be with me, and in America I'm doing my best with the various models, Mustang in particular.

...Chrysler gets some love now and again, and I'm trying hard to be objective with them, but when they (and Ford) screw things up so bad, I'm happy to point them out...

I'm with ya on Ford Europe and even Australia. I just can't respect Ford as much right now when they can't see that Americans want the European and Australian models.

Maybe since GM is using Pontiac to bring the Monaro (right?) in G8 form, Ford will do the same.

 

[Tornado]

Some already known news, but an interesting tidbit:

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera[/FONT] [SIZE=-1]

Ferrari has been highly successful in making the lightweight "Challenge Stradale" version of 360. F430 is also going to receive Challenge Stradale conversion next year. However, this time it won't have an easy life, because Lamborghini has introduced a similar lightweight version of Gallardo. It is called Gallardo Superleggera, or Superlight in English. Externally, the car can be distinguished from the regular Gallardo by the unique rear spoiler (the original Gallardo does not have any rear spoilers), which is made of carbon fiber. The car has undergone a diet to eliminate 100 kilograms of fat from the standard car's 1430 kg dry weight. That means a dry weight of 1330 kg or a kerb weight of around 1420 kg.

The reduction is implemented by converting many parts to carbon fiber, such as engine lid, diffusers, underbody panels, door inner panels, rear-view mirrors and central transmission tunnel. The glass screen on the engine lid has been converted to transparent polycarbonate, as are the windows. Moreover, the cabin is striped out, losing electric seats (replaced by carbon fiber sports buckets), sound insulation, carpets, stereo and satellite navigation. Lamborghini could have eliminated another 100kg easily by ditching the viscous-coupling 4WD system (as rumors said), but eventually it kept the system in order to deliver an easier handling than its Ferrari counterpart. Since it was taken over by Audi, Lamborghini sees 4WD traction as an inseparable part of its character.

The engine also received improved intake and exhaust breathing and revised ECU to enable a boost of 10 horsepower, now 530 hp at 8000 rpm (standard car: 520 hp at 7800 rpm). Surprisingly, the unchanged max torque arrives at 4250 rpm instead of 4500 rpm, so the Superleggera should be faster yet more tractable. According to Lamborghini, the car takes only 3.7 seconds to go from 0-60 mph, a couple of tenths faster than before. Top speed, however, remains unchanged at 196 mph.

The Superleggera has the E-gear semi-automatic gearbox as standard and 6-speed manual as option. It transfer power to the new DTM 19-inch wheels and Pirelli P-Zero Corsa rubber. Carbon ceramic brakes are standard. Undoubtedly, the lightweight supercar will outperform the standard Gallardo in every aspect, no matter acceleration, stopping and handling.

Around 350 units of Superleggera will be produced over the next two years. Prices is expected to be 20 percent higher than the regular version. We can't wait to see it meet F430 Challenge Stradale face to face.[/SIZE]

Linky.

If most of the cars come with E-Gear, the weight will shoot back up into the 1500kg range anyways, making any and all weight reduction services irrelavent and unnecessary. So much for being lighter than the Porsche 911 GT3 or Corvette Z06.

 

[McLaren]

Am I reading that right?!

That's a backwards part on Lamborghini then. Usually, the 6-speed is standard, and E-Gear is the big pricey option.

I would say it's a bad move on Lamborghini's part, but only because buyers may think the E-Gear is better suited for this "Sport" model when really, the 6-speed stick has been a lot easier.

 

[///M-Spec]

With the Spyder, the flaws of the normal car are much more easily ignored.

I think Toronado pretty much had it covered. There is just some strange way in which the Spyder allows for sporting folks to overlook the performance losses, as it is a roadster... Even further, I'd dare to say that the Spyder version looks better than the coupe, and that is something that doesn't occur too often with most sports cars.

...But yes, you are right; Nine times out of ten, the coupe is the better choice...

I guess you guys are looking at a review I haven't read yet. Most of the reviews I've read are positive about the car. Can one of you post a link?

Yes, the 911 Turbo is a moderately heavy car by sporting standards, but when it is ripping to 60 MPH in 3.6 seconds well on it's way to nearly 200 MPH, it leaves the Gallardo behind in a cloud of dust. Clever engineering, or just doing things right to begin with... Someone better get Audi on the phone...

The Gallardo in the R&T group test I linked to had no trouble keeping up with the Turbo. In fact, it trapped faster in the 1/4 mile, indicating it would pull away from the Turbo at the 1320 mark.


M