Gear ratios = handling fact or fiction

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springerman

springerman

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springerman
Well i have just spent 2 hours on Cape ring periphery with half a dozen varied cars ff/awd/fr/mr,150hp-750hp etc and changed nothing but gear ratio`s all cars where run on sports soft tires .
I was amazed at what a difference gear ratio`s made to the actual handling of a car especially in approach,mid and exit of corners also how braking was affected and for those not to familiar with this track even the landing after the carousel is influenced by, you guessed it gear ratio .
So do you as a TUNER factor this in or would you be willing to do so in some of your future tunes

This is not criticism of any tune published in this forum purely a question derived from observation
 
springerman
Well i have just spent 2 hours on Cape ring periphery with half a dozen varied cars ff/awd/fr/mr,150hp-750hp etc and changed nothing but gear ratio`s all cars where run on sports soft tires .
I was amazed at what a difference gear ratio`s made to the actual handling of a car especially in approach,mid and exit of corners also how braking was affected and for those not to familiar with this track even the landing after the carousel is influenced by, you guessed it gear ratio .
So do you as a TUNER factor this in or would you be willing to do so in some of your future tunes

This is not criticism of any tune published in this forum purely a question derived from observation
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Uhh I'm pretty sure most tuners factor gearing into the handling. I know I do, it's coupled with the LSD and LSD tuning. When dialing in a Tune all adjustable values are factored in, everything is done based on handling.
 
Honestly, I don't consider the handling effect of gears when I tune. I usually just find the gear ratios that fit the power band. But nice discovery, I didn't know TBH, but I had guessed that wheelspin and such would be affected.
 
No_OBsT33R
Uhh I'm pretty sure most tuners factor gearing into the handling. I know I do, it's coupled with the LSD and LSD tuning. When dialing in a Tune all adjustable values are factored in, everything is done based on handling.
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Yes this is what i thought ,But if you take a look at the amount of tunes that either don`t include a gear set up or just refer to change to suit track then how do you derive your LSD setting
 
I'd say that specific gear ratio might be more applicable to a specific track.
In some cases over all handling
But I only use them for a specific car on a specific track
 
MNLumberjack
I'd say that specific gear ratio might be more applicable to a specific track.
In some cases over all handling
But I only use them for a specific car on a specific track
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I find a lot of tuning threads fairly pointless because they are lacking a major element. This could be the track, the driver, or both.

It is usually more rewarding in terms of lowering lap times to "tune" the driver before you touch any settings on the car.

Not to knock tuning threads, but I mean to say that they can be misleading and only lead to more frustration for an inexperienced driver.
 
I'd say, yes, indirectly gears effect handling.
By manipulating the torque applied to the wheels, you can manipulate the amount of grip retained or lost between them.
 
Adrenaline
I'd say, yes, indirectly gears effect handling.
By manipulating the torque applied to the wheels, you can manipulate the amount of grip retained or lost between them.
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Thanks Adrenaline i have followed some of your threads with great interest and its good to know you see where im coming from ,It may have even more effect on those of us that shift manually as our shift points will influence the LSD especially when gearing down into a corner
 
I thought i was the only one who noticed a slight disturbance in my cars' handling when i tweaked gear ratios. Good to know it might be a big factor and looking forward to more ideas thrown around for debate and testing.
 
During the first round of the tuning competition with the subaru I noticed that one of the tunes had gear ratios that forced me to take certain turns in a lower gear, immensley helping the car turn. If I'm driving sloppily one of my first options to compensate is to drop down a gear at the apex. I've come to think that this kind of technique is for a highly specialized tune. For a certain track, car, snow, dirt, etc. I think that solid driving technique trumps this idea for all around tunes.
 
You make some interesting points drivehard , i particularly noticed what you were referring to when you said (it forced me to take certain turns in a lower gear, immensely helping the car turn) ,This became very apparent on the carousel section of the track i test on Cape ring periphery.
Trying to match the gear whilst not pushing it wide or dropping speed is a real tough one and enforces my belief that the best tune has to be track specific ,It may travel reasonably to other tracks but never as well as the one intended.
 
It's also worth mentioning, that if you're having issues getting your LSD dialed in, you might want to adjust your gears first and start over on the LSD. Sometimes by using the incorrect gear reduction, you're simply overpowering the amount of grip the tires have to offer and nothing you do to the LSD can fix that. Well, there's a few things, but it's a crutch and won't help in the long run.

As drivehard mentioned, the more torque you get to the wheels the more ability to turn you'll have. But the more torque you have, the more likely you are to break the tires loose. Re-reading that statement should help clear a lot of it up.
More torque = more likely to break loose = better turning ability = higher risk.
The goal, is to find the right gearing that will give you the most amount of torque possible, without going beyond your tire's limit of grip.

Keep in mind, that when you change your gear ratios, it can also cause an imbalance in your LSD. I personally recommend Rough Tuning your LSD, to a known 'happy place' for yourself (For example on RWD I usually start at 15/10/5). Then try to get most of your suspension and gearing dialed in. Once you have everything 'close' go back to your LSD and make sure you have the balance you need overall. In my experience, basically every setting you adjust, has some effect on the LSD in the end. I'm no tuner, but I feel that LSD is the single largest tuning option we have in GT5.
 
I said gearing affected handling when the game first came out. Was in a NASCAR room and went from a 249 gear to a 242 gear, before you could adjust any gears. This was long before the patch even was thought of. handling in corners changed dramatically. I wasan't apart of this forum, but it's nice to see somebody else found this out, even if it was months after my discovery :)
 
springerman
Yes this is what i thought ,But if you take a look at the amount of tunes that either don`t include a gear set up or just refer to change to suit track then how do you derive your LSD setting
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Yeah, gears and LSD are very important parts of a tune, it is a huge oversight IMHO to not include them. As for tuners saying something like "adjust final drive to suit top speed at other tracks", it is true that this will also effect handling while on-throttle, perhaps needing LSD changes to compensate. However, a tune can already be highly compromised at another track (such as camber, downforce balance, spring stiffness), so I think the tune is often already "ruined" even before the gearing is adjusted.

drivehard
During the first round of the tuning competition with the subaru I noticed that one of the tunes had gear ratios that forced me to take certain turns in a lower gear, immensley helping the car turn. If I'm driving sloppily one of my first options to compensate is to drop down a gear at the apex.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I've noticed being in a lower gear will improve turn-in and mid corner grip, even when you are off the throttle.
 
nomis3613
Yeah, gears and LSD are very important parts of a tune, it is a huge oversight IMHO to not include them. As for tuners saying something like "adjust final drive to suit top speed at other tracks", it is true that this will also effect handling while on-throttle, perhaps needing LSD changes to compensate. However, a tune can already be highly compromised at another track (such as camber, downforce balance, spring stiffness), so I think the tune is often already "ruined" even before the gearing is adjusted.


Yeah, I've noticed being in a lower gear will improve turn-in and mid corner grip, even when you are off the throttle.
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Hi. That's what i write on my tunes.

"i moove the final speed depending of track to have the maximum speed in 6 gear at max rpm on each track... and do a fine tune if necessary for certain long curves that need a high rpm to gain grip . That's all."

My english is not so good to explain each details, but for me it work like this:
1°) What is the mimum and max speed i'll need for each track. If i have 6 gears, i'll try to use all of them only in this range of - & + speed. Like this each gear exploit the range of rpm with more torque and power

2°) this will not change for this car on any track. The only thing that will change is the final speed

3°)After a fine tune is needed for principaly 2 points: retake from a hairpin for example, need torque and progressive power... and for long turns with a critical grip ( like on Suzuka ex.) Then, i try as good as possible,to have a rpm corresponding at the max torque at this point of the curve.

Try this. with a stock gears , go on one track with an easy start ( no turns before the starting line) // load the fantom replay // set the gears like i describe over// race against your first own fantom replay and you'll see that it will stay back.... you'll be faster...

That what i recorded. Have a good GT5 week end everybody.
 
I created a little worksheet to compute total torque/HP for various transmission settings. I used that to create a setting for my 3-speed Chaparral 2J that was an increase of 25%. So I took it to the High Speed Ring and was suprised to find that my times had decreased by 2 seconds per lap. Upon comparing torque to speed, the reason became obvious. The minimum corner speeds are around 90mph and 135mph. The shift point for first gear was below 90mph, so it was essentially wasted. Second gear was unable to cover both 90mph and 140mph, so it was ineffective. In contrast, the default setting caught the torque curves almost perfectly.
It showed me how important a role the track played in picking the right gear ratios.
 
AlphaGnomeo
I created a little worksheet to compute total torque/HP for various transmission settings. I used that to create a setting for my 3-speed Chaparral 2J that was an increase of 25%. So I took it to the High Speed Ring and was suprised to find that my times had decreased by 2 seconds per lap. Upon comparing torque to speed, the reason became obvious. The minimum corner speeds are around 90mph and 135mph. The shift point for first gear was below 90mph, so it was essentially wasted. Second gear was unable to cover both 90mph and 140mph, so it was ineffective. In contrast, the default setting caught the torque curves almost perfectly.
It showed me how important a role the track played in picking the right gear ratios.
Click to expand...

That's pretty much my philosophy on gear selection. I check out the power band and try to shift before torque and hp falls off too much. Sometimes its near the redline, sometimes down 25% from redline. That might mean for example that while your actual top speed on GVE for example might be 290 km/h, you might set the actual top speed of the vehicle at 350 km/h to ensure you are still in a good portion of the powerband at 290 km/h or you risk losing speed on the top end.

The other thing I do is try to ensure, as Alpha notes above, especially on the slower corners, is that I have a gear that is fairly high revving to help me get around the corner quicker. Take the 90 degree left hander at GVE before the tunnel for example. Take the corner in 3rd gear at half revs a few times, then take it in 2nd gear where it's revving at 80-90% of redline. Big difference.
 
Yep. I think you're right.
When driving in lower gears the car will turn better. I usually tune my first 2 or 3 gears longer and then the rest shorter. I also make it for the first gear to be used in the slowest corner, so I can use the lowest gear possible at any corner.
 
Has anyone done any testing on the 'final gear' adjustment? I've tested it very little, so far I seem to get best results with a lower setting (3.200) for every car I try. That's not much testing though, my results could just be coincidence.
 
Yes, gear ratios do allow you to change handling characteristics. But I think most tunes available online leave this to the driver and the track he is using, and going for a more all-around tuning setup which fixes natural tendencies of the car towards under/oversteer.

Fooling around with the ratios is very much driving style dependent, and people with good throttle control will not appreciate it much, but people who love powering out of corners appreciate it if you can lengthen a gear or two and adjust tshe LSD accordingly so they wouldn't have to worry about throttle control.

So when tuning a car for online sessions, I find myself only tuning gears for maximum speed on straights, not handling. But when it's a league race, for myself, or for a friend, I tune the individual gears for handling. Specially on long races.
 

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