Getting angle in drifts in gt4

  • Thread starter Thread starter tarek69
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I think TS pretty muched summed up what this topics about, i was gonna add my opinion but theres no need, ahahahaha, i remember drifting FF's on GT3, ahhh the good ole days, things never possible in real life COULD be obtained , so d3p0 is right, i remember doing "drifts" over 90 degrees and coming back, dunno if u can on GT4 though
 
Droptop_Chick
To sustain a drift of that angle, you'd need a magical steering rack.
I would crack a joke (I almost did), but there are watchful eyes..

While I'm at it, do you own an S2000 (Droptop_Chick)?


On topic: The way the R34 distributes torque with the ATESSA electronic traction system allows for recovery from drift angles greater than 90°.

All you need is a super wide corner (ie. Apricot Hill turn 1), because the process of recovering takes time and you're drifting in almost a straight line with full-lock countersteer.

People have proved this in GT3 and I knew about it long before someone featured it in one of there videos. It's actually quite spectacular when done right.

However, I don't think I'm up for the challenge with 900 degree mode..

Hey look, I can rub my hands together and roll up all the dirt and oil into little doobies :lol:
 
DRIFTN
ahhh the good ole days, things never possible in real life COULD be obtained
It is actualy phisicaly possible. I know for a fact one of the first FF drifters in the USA (that I know of); along with many other people; do it on slick surfaces like snow. The fellows name escapes me at the moment. I will find the artical where he talks about doing it. It was so long ago...

*looks for about an hour*
Lost to the vast-ness of the internet, I assume.

Anyways. You kind of just have to see a car in a complete slide and go almost 180 degrees around and turn back the direction from whence it came. I will never call anything impossible unless someone proves to me that it is.
 
Sloth.7SL
While I'm at it, do you own an S2000 (Droptop_Chick)?

I think you could do a search for that TOO:lol: Like 5 other members asked her something about that S2000:lol: She HAS a pic................I think it's pretty obvious then;)
 
henessy
I think she means to recover from a drift of that angle.
Even so. I belive that if one were to pass nintey degree point you one could always decrese the angle by lightly tuging on the handbrake (not locking but actualy braking) to slow the rear tires down and letting your front wheels take the lead once again. Stearing only indicates what direction you want the car to go in. There are driving schools that teach you how to start and end four wheel slides through turns in track cars that have modified steering racks that only let the driver turn the half a turn in each direction.

Side Question:
Does GT4's handbreak have any level's of sensitivity to it? Because right now, to me, it seems to be just on and off.
 
Mr.Code
Even so. I belive that if one were to pass nintey degree point you one could always decrese the angle by lightly tuging on the handbrake (not locking but actualy braking) to slow the rear tires down and letting your front wheels take the lead once again.
(

Actually, I think if you really wanted to decrease the angle (in a FF car) while in the middle of a drift, you should just let of the gas for a second, allow the tires to regain traction, and then give it a bit of throttle to get the front wheels to help and pull you out of it. Assuming of course you're going at a pretty stable speed, but if you're nearing past the 90 degree mark, you're probably better off mashing the gas while countersteering to have a smoother although less professional looking exit. That's what I've noticed anyway.
 
PS
Actually, I think if you really wanted to decrease the angle (in a FF car) while in the middle of a drift, you should just let of the gas for a second, allow the tires to regain traction, and then give it a bit of throttle to get the front wheels to help and pull you out of it. Assuming of course you're going at a pretty stable speed, but if you're nearing past the 90 degree mark, you're probably better off mashing the gas while countersteering to have a smoother although less professional looking exit. That's what I've noticed anyway.

Well the handbreak thing I'm talking about applies to what I have done in my car (the real one); and although it's RWD, I'm sure the same idea can be applied to a FWD car. I don't really see a reason of why it couldn't work.

Perhaps a combination of both? Gasing like crazy couldn't hurt to bring front around faster...
 
G-T-4-Fan
Sloth.7SL
While I'm at it, do you own an S2000 (Droptop_Chick)?
I think you could do a search for that TOO:lol: Like 5 other members asked her something about that S2000:lol: She HAS a pic................I think it's pretty obvious then;)

Well it looks like a model (the car :rolleyes: ).

But I can't go making assumptions so I figured I'd ask.


Assuming it isn't, that's frickin sweet.

That's the color I'd buy it in (assuming I had $35,000).


Alot of the cars that people own on these forums are soo hot.

Like CudaMan just recently bought an FC, and Kenji has owned an NSX for quite some time.

Then there's Seito4Counter (Dan), who owns an Evo 5 and a heavily tuned MR-S, and the long-lost Shadow Drifter, brother to Ryen49, has owned and destroyed cars that I could only dream of riding in the passenger seats of.

Sorry.. off topic.
 
Yes...


Sustaining a drift of that angle will only cut your speed dramamtically. Thats why I don't consider it to be a drift, more of an "oops too much better back off and save it...." Drifting stems off the properties of ideal slip angle. Slowly progressive low angle rotation of the car around a fixed axis or "high speed drift" is what they're calling it now I guess. To achieve the maximum entry and exit speed, slip angle must be cut to a minimum. If you push beyod the 90 degree angle, it's very much so detoromental to your "drift." You loose a large amount of exit speed, controllablilty goes down the drain, and pretty much most of the time if you hit an angle greater than 90 degrees, you've screwed up and it's obvious that you did. Maybe you could hold that ridiculous angle in GT3, but GT4 has changed it up quite abit. If you can hold a drift over 90 degrees and sustain a good entry and exit speed, I'd like to see you try...
 
It's not all about speed though, and you aren't actually sustaining a 90+ degree slip angle. It's merely getting into it and getting out of it that makes it so spectacular.

Recovering from a 90 degree angle drift in anything other than a Skyline or a FWD car would be impossible. Because the front wheels 'pull' the front end back around, and doing that with 900 degrees of steering wheel rotation would prove to make it extremely difficult to suddenly recover from full lock countersteer and not spin out due to snap understeer, which, might I add, would be particularily bad because the front of the car has ALOT of room to accelerate.

The reason why I say the Skyline and not all 4WD cars is because of the way torque is distributed electronically.

Rally cars spin out. It's a fact.

I don't believe I've ever spun out in an R34 while messing around with it, unless it's while drifting, but even then it's only because I would rather just spin out than cause the wheel to make that horrid noise.

I have no interest in practicing this, but it would be interesting to see someone demonstrate.

o.t.
VERY clean ride btw.

There's a silver one that parks infront of where I live and every time I walk by it, I just have to stop and admire it.

There's also a white Honda (not Acura) Integra Type-R decked out with a Spoon carbon under-bumper mounted front wing and Spoon brakes that parks on the route I take walking to my friend's house. It also has a bunch of other crap on it (Recaro seats, aftermarket rims, etc..) but the modifications that he has done to it have not marred the traditional Honda styling, which makes it really cool.

The S2000 is a fantastic choice, even just for commuting, so I congratulate you on that.
 
Droptop_Chick
Yes...


Sustaining a drift of that angle will only cut your speed dramamtically. Thats why I don't consider it to be a drift, more of an "oops too much better back off and save it...." Drifting stems off the properties of ideal slip angle. Slowly progressive low angle rotation of the car around a fixed axis or "high speed drift" is what they're calling it now I guess. To achieve the maximum entry and exit speed, slip angle must be cut to a minimum. If you push beyod the 90 degree angle, it's very much so detoromental to your "drift." You loose a large amount of exit speed, controllablilty goes down the drain, and pretty much most of the time if you hit an angle greater than 90 degrees, you've screwed up and it's obvious that you did. Maybe you could hold that ridiculous angle in GT3, but GT4 has changed it up quite abit. If you can hold a drift over 90 degrees and sustain a good entry and exit speed, I'd like to see you try...

wow nice car and nice photography skills also.

back on topic, when i first started practicing drifting, i would try to do some kamikaze drift(high angle) but i would usually lose all my momentum half way thru or 3/4 thru. then i started practicing my doing 20-30 laps on any course and find the "ideal" angle to keep my car sliding thru but still keep a nice angle.
 
Droptop_Chick
Sustaining a drift of that angle will only cut your speed dramamtically. Thats why I don't consider it to be a drift, more of an "oops too much better back off and save it...." Drifting stems off the properties of ideal slip angle. Slowly progressive low angle rotation of the car around a fixed axis or "high speed drift" is what they're calling it now I guess. To achieve the maximum entry and exit speed, slip angle must be cut to a minimum. If you push beyod the 90 degree angle, it's very much so detoromental to your "drift." You loose a large amount of exit speed, controllablilty goes down the drain, and pretty much most of the time if you hit an angle greater than 90 degrees, you've screwed up and it's obvious that you did. Maybe you could hold that ridiculous angle in GT3, but GT4 has changed it up quite abit. If you can hold a drift over 90 degrees and sustain a good entry and exit speed, I'd like to see you try...

Now remember, drifting [for most] is about style ;).
 
Droptop_Chick
I'm all for the looks of it, but there's no point to me if you can't maintain the speed. Oh well, carry on...

As Vin said, it's about style. Team FBI has a much faster "style" then most any drifters here. Just remember that there are two different types of drifting. Speed and exhibition. They are as seperate as drift and grip driving themselves.

So if you like speed drifting, cool. I'm more into exihbition, high angle drifting myself. :)
 
Droptop_Chick
Sustaining a drift of that angle will only cut your speed dramamtically...To achieve the maximum entry and exit speed, slip angle must be cut to a minimum.

Depending on the driving schools, this angle of slip somewhere between eight and fifteen degrees. Anything over that and your loosing speed and cutting out on your optimum time. You can't see it most of the time, but when you watch a race, all the best drivers are doing this constantly.

P.S.: Droptop Chick, cute car, will you teach me to drift someday?
 
Swift
As Vin said, it's about style. Team FBI has a much faster "style" then most any drifters here. Just remember that there are two different types of drifting. Speed and exhibition. They are as seperate as drift and grip driving themselves.

So if you like speed drifting, cool. I'm more into exihbition, high angle drifting myself. :)

I could never understand the concept behind the GTPDC "Race Drifting" Catagory.

However, drifting has evolved alot since then.

I look forward to seeing what types of challenges people can come up with.


Side Note
One Silvia Brother down; one Silvia Brother to go..
(This isn't over yet.)
 
noob question:

can someone explain the difference between the slip angle and the drift angle ? i see you guys referring to both and i have no idea what the slip angle is.
 
Sloth.7SL

Rally cars spin out. It's a fact.

Which one's? Under what conditions?

I've noticed that when drifting in a rally car (while on dirt mind you, aka pretty much racing), it's quite stable. But using the same settings on pavement/asphalt, it's ridiculously twitchy and unstable.

But if you just mean STi + Evo trying to drift, I always end up with the same conclusion-

I don't actually get high angle drifts into the corner (or rotate around, if you will), I just more or less slide sideways into the outer wall and end up paralell/in line with the road I was trying to drift around.

Personally, I've never spun out in a rally car, but I have spun out lots of times with road cars while trying to rally. Even with proper setups and parts, I just find that an AWD/4WD vehicle is best suited for it. Why? The way you race in rallies isn't the same as grip racing (tarmac/asphalt/concrete etc), and you have to slide around with a pulling and pushing force, because too much RWD power will spin you out, and you will lose huge time and understeer like a mofo in a FWD car.

Also, are you referring to MR vehicles? I've noticed the mid-engined ones are much more prone to spinning out than FR, which is just because of simple physics. I'd just like to know what you mean.
 
slo-car
noob question:

can someone explain the difference between the slip angle and the drift angle ? i see you guys referring to both and i have no idea what the slip angle is.
That's not a 'noob' question, I know people that have been 'driving' for years and have know idea about slip angles.

Slip Angles and Handling

Slip angles are very often an overlooked or misunderstood parameter in race car handling. Review this page for a better understanding of slip angles, their impact on handling and how computer software can help you take control of this very important aspect of handling tuning.

SLIP ANGLES
Slip angle is a term used to describe a particular type of flex in tires. Even though the name uses the word "slip," this characteristic has nothing to do with slipping or skidding. Slip angle is a measurement of how much the tire's contact patch has tw isted (steered) in relation to the wheel. A good way to demonstrate this characteristic is to stand beside your car and turn the steering wheel. If you watch the left front wheel, you will see that it steers a few degrees before the tire's contact patch starts to turn. It is not uncommon for this slip angle to be as large as 6 to 10 degrees on the race track.

This characteristics is important, because as long as the tires have traction, the car tries to go where the tires are pointed. So, even though the wheels may not be steering, the tires can be steering due to the slip angle.

HANDLING IMPACT
On a small oval track (3/8ths mile), the tires only need to steer slightly over 3 degrees for the car to travel through the turns (see Ackerman and Racing for more details). On larger race tracks, the tires may need to steer 2 degrees or less. However, that steering can also occur at the rear tires du e to the slip angles.

Often times, in a corner, you will turn the steering wheel a certain number of degrees initially and then need to reduce the steering angle before you reach the apex of the turn. This is because the rear tires are generating a slip angle and some of the steering is taking place at the rear tires. It is even possible to travel through the turn with the steering wheel in the straight forward position because the rear tires are doing all of the steering. Automotive engineers call this condition the "critical speed." On bigger race tracks (1 mile), this turn-in and turn-back characteristic is less pronounced than on short tracks, but when it o ccurs, you'd better be paying attention, 'cause you're about to go for a ride!

Increasing the slip angles at the rear of the car will make the race car looser (oversteer). Likewise, reducing the slip angles at the rear will often be interpreted by the driver as making the race car tighter (understeer).

TAKING CONTROL OF SLIP ANGLES
Weight transfer from the inside tires to the outside tires affects the slip angles. When your race car is in the turns, equally loaded tires will run at smaller slip angles. Conversely, a large difference between the inside tire's load and outside tire's load will cause the slip angle to increase.

Many items on the car (such as springs, spring location, roll centers etc.) have an impact on the weight transfer during a corner. This is where a program such as Computerized Chassis Weights is a great tool. You ca n experiment with changes in the computer and see how the weight transfer will be affected on the car.

Remember, changes that increase the weight transfer are going to increase the slip angle. Changes that reduce the weight transfer will reduce the slip angle. Increasing the slip angles at the rear makes your car looser, and reducing the slip angles (at the rear) will make your car tighter in the corners.

Also, keep in mind that these causes and effects are true as long as the tires have traction. If you drive on oil/water, or for some other reason your tires are already sliding, then you can pretty much forget the items above. Remember, racing can be da ngerous. Always use your best judgment and the best tools!

^One of the better (simple) explanations I found on the net.^ Taken from http://www.auto-ware.com/setup/slp_hndl.htm for educational purposes.
Also, if you would like to know more: http://www.msgroup.org/TIP076.html
 
tarek69
thanks for the replies, sorry for the language but meh yeah if there was this topic someone could have put the link or something but wtv i guess i have to keep practicing.

Thats all there is to it, practice, all the time.
 
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