Go forth and multiply GT5

[J91patriz]

EDIT: Link attached to prove real draft effect (check at the final minute).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDkdg4VMdyE

This morning I really had enough.

For those like me who doesn't have a desktop pc to play proper SIM games, GT is the classic alternative choice.

Someone in the same situation then might start buying a wheel thinking to increase the appeal of the game, and maybe to be even quicker than someone sat on the sofa pressing X, L2 or R2 and wielding a joypad.

Perhaps he or she might fancy some real simulation online races.

I am afraid that in both cases a huge disappointment is behind the corner.

First, if you want to be quick, and I mean seriously quick, you can start saving on the steering wheel. After all a real simulation doesn't seem to be needing one...

But the second point is even worse.
Much of the discussion of the pp can be found here https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=272059, for those who hadn't seen it.
Adding to that point the race I had this morning made me realise I've had enough.
It wasn't the classic 550 pp, so the usual bias were at least in part restrained.
But I find impossible to accept to be overtaken by someone on the straightline who was over a second behind me with similar cars.
And those that follow races know that even a second in real races isn't a small gap, in fact races are fought on hundreths or tenths of a second.
What is the point of doing the hard job of leading a race and keeping a gap, just then to lose in this way????

At this point I am not looking for justifications, similar cars with similar pp = similar performance.

 

[Jawehawk]

Well that was a rather pointless read...

What's your point? That the PP system sucks? It has always been a poor way to find equal cars. Sure, you can get some ideas from it, but to use it as the sole way of finding equal cars, is not a good idea.

You say real simulations don't seem to need one. What do you mean by that? A wheel makes the experience more fun and realistic. This goes for every single sim out there. In theory, it should also make you more consistant.

Drafting in the game isn't that bad when set to low (or is it real?). It's still not perfect, but it's fairly close. And to top it off, being right behind someone has it's disadvantages as well, as you'll brake slower, and turn worse.

The proper online races in the game is still very much a battle for tenths. I've had a ton of great battles with GTP friends where it has come down to a few tenths of a second. Dispite battleing for 20+ laps.

If you've had enough of the game, then so be it. You won't find pity here. Had enough? Then be done with it... Move on to another game.

 

[GODfreyGT5]

The wheel completely makes GT5 what is is for me.

I've sent my wheel off for a replacement and haven't touched GT since, the wheel is so damn good that it's not the same without it!

 

[VBR]

If you want some fair online racing in equal cars, then click on the first link in my sig.

 

[eran0004]

Well, if you know about the drafting it might not be the best move to go out on the last long straight before finish line in 1st position, after all you have the option to slow down and let the other driver past so you'll have the advantage yourself. There is no point in having a lead, the only point is who wins.

Speaking of performance points, performance is not speed. Performance is not handling. Performance is handling AND speed, so a car that has the same PP as another may have a lot higher top speed and be much better at fast tracks with long straights. The other car, with lower top speed, may have better handling and have an advantage on slow tracks with a lot of corners. That's what you get when you use one number to describe several different variables. Performance points gives a rough matching, it's then up to you to pick a car that has an edge for the track you're racing at.

 

[MSTER232]

You don't have to explain your whole life story. Just be straight to the point if you're going to complain about something. Also, look; you're part of one of the biggest GT5 fansites. Check out events that are being organised on here if you want som great online racing action.

 

[byegad]

Well, if you know about the drafting it might not be the best move to go out on the last long straight before finish line in 1st position, after all you have the option to slow down and let the other driver past so you'll have the advantage yourself. There is no point in having a lead, the only point is who wins.

Speaking of performance points, performance is not speed. Performance is not handling. Performance is handling AND speed, so a car that has the same PP as another may have a lot higher top speed and be much better at fast tracks with long straights. The other car, with lower top speed, may have better handling and have an advantage on slow tracks with a lot of corners. That's what you get when you use one number to describe several different variables. Performance points gives a rough matching, it's then up to you to pick a car that has an edge for the track you're racing at.

The last paragraph says it all. I ran all of the B Spec 500pp challenges this morning using a 28 EXP Bob in a Ford Mach1 '71 tuned to bang on 500pp with over 500bhp. While he won all of the races some were a LOT easier than others. The Rome and Fuji races were easy as the long periods of full throttle gave him easy passes on the rest of the field, in fact, at Fuji, he only overtook two of the opponents in corners, even though he was buzzing the limiter at the end of the Start/Finish straight. Autumn ring was very close with him only getting round the leader in the penultimate corner. Although he did pass a couple of cars int eh longer straight the rest were under braking or in a corner.

Try the same races with a light well handling car with a lot less BHP and the longer straight circuits would be a real problem and I doubt your Bob could win them all.

 

[JBF1MSC]

As others have said, if you want proper online racing you will have to join a proper organised league with good competent serious drivers.

 

[J91patriz]

Well that was a rather pointless read...

What's your point? That the PP system sucks? It has always been a poor way to find equal cars. Sure, you can get some ideas from it, but to use it as the sole way of finding equal cars, is not a good idea.

You say real simulations don't seem to need one. What do you mean by that? A wheel makes the experience more fun and realistic. This goes for every single sim out there. In theory, it should also make you more consistant.

.

Cheers.
I know that using wheels increase realism but what I wanted to say is that I don't see how people using joypads can keep up with others using wheels. Or I wonder why Alonso and company haven't started to use joypads instead of their fancy wheels
I don't know you but that makes me doubt about part of the physics.

@eran0004
"Well, if you know about the drafting it might not be the best move to go out on the last long straight before finish line in 1st position, after all you have the option to slow down and let the other driver past so you'll have the advantage yourself. There is no point in having a lead, the only point is who wins.

Speaking of performance points, performance is not speed. Performance is not handling. Performance is handling AND speed, so a car that has the same PP as another may have a lot higher top speed and be much better at fast tracks with long straights. The other car, with lower top speed, may have better handling and have an advantage on slow tracks with a lot of corners. That's what you get when you use one number to describe several different variables. Performance points gives a rough matching, it's then up to you to pick a car that has an edge for the track you're racing at. "

I know that some drafting strategies can be applied.
But in the specific I was talking about the last straight of the nurb.
So if you are MORE than one second ahead I don't see it feasible nor realistic to breake, leave the other dude overtake and then pass him again at the end of the straightline.
And to make myself clear the cars were 458 and LFA (around 580 pp).
So I know that a pickup might have more Hp than another type of car and the two would have the same PP. But in this case the two vehicles are very similar (or at least should be).

And I would like to thank @VBR for his invitation

 

[Jawehawk]

Cheers.
I know that using wheels increase realism but what I wanted to say is that I don't see how people using joypads can keep up with others using wheels. Or I wonder why Alonso and company haven't started to use joypads instead of their fancy wheels
I don't know you but that makes me doubt about part of the physics.

Well, of course a wheel will offer som advantages, mainly due to the added precision of the gas/brake pedals compared to a button on a controller, aswell as a good steering wheel. That doesn't really have anything to do with the game. Just the limited capabilities of the DS3 controller.

That said, DS3 users can be extremely fast aswell. The advantage you get from using a wheel is very small, and skill still plays the biggest role in whether you win or lose.

The Nurburg problem can be solved by doing more than 1 lap per race, or by increasing the gap between you and 2nd further. There's nothing unrealistic about you being overtaken on a straight as long as the one on the Nurburg.

So in short. No. That using a wheel gives you a very slight edge in terms of consistancy, does not make me question the physics of the game. It's just simple logic that you can't be as precise with an analogue stick and buttons, as you can with a wheel and pedals.

 

[MSTER232]

That said, DS3 users can be extremely fast aswell. The advantage you get from using a wheel is very small, and skill still plays the biggest role in whether you win or lose.

MattieM for example?

 

[J91patriz]

Well, of course a wheel will offer som advantages, mainly due to the added precision of the gas/brake pedals compared to a button on a controller, aswell as a good steering wheel. That doesn't really have anything to do with the game. Just the limited capabilities of the DS3 controller.

That said, DS3 users can be extremely fast aswell. The advantage you get from using a wheel is very small, and skill still plays the biggest role in whether you win or lose.

The Nurburg problem can be solved by doing more than 1 lap per race, or by increasing the gap between you and 2nd further. There's nothing unrealistic about you being overtaken on a straight as long as the one on the Nurburg.

So in short. No. That using a wheel gives you a very slight edge in terms of consistancy, does not make me question the physics of the game. It's just simple logic that you can't be as precise with an analogue stick and buttons, as you can with a wheel and pedals.

Look, we are saying basically the same thing. I am just saying that a wheel should give you a very HUGE edge compared to the joypad.
And not because the game should favour a wheel but because it should just respect real physics.
In short I believe that with a DS3 should be unrealistic to keep up with someone using a wheel, at a certain level.


But my main issue here is another and should be cristal clear by now.
I accept being overtaken on the straight. That's not a problem.
But if two comparable cars that are in same class, one behind with a considerable gap, actually closes this gap and passes me like I am driving a shopping cart , well... something is not quite right.

And in this case the classic "gr" at the end just sounds like a joke.

P.S. I don't want to neglect other people's skills because they use a pad.

 

[LVracerGT]

Sounds like he's talking about the draft, being overtaken on the straight. I agree, my buddy and I were just talking about this last night.

Make sure the draft is on weak, that's really the only option right now. But the draft needs a "realistic" setting where it doesn't suck you in exponentially faster when you're behind. It needs to be a very small increase over the course of a straight away.

IndyCar is a perfect example. It takes them the entire straight at Indy in real life to set up a pass and sometimes they have to abort if they can't get far enough up.

 

[J91patriz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDkdg4VMdyE

For those interested in the DRAFT effect please go to 18:00 and see how it works...(and here they are very close...)

But for the enthusiast I suggest to watch the whole 19 minutes video...👍

I don't know how to link the video directly here sorry...

 

[J91patriz]

Sounds like he's talking about the draft, being overtaken on the straight. I agree, my buddy and I were just talking about this last night.

Make sure the draft is on weak, that's really the only option right now. But the draft needs a "realistic" setting where it doesn't suck you in exponentially faster when you're behind. It needs to be a very small increase over the course of a straight away.

IndyCar is a perfect example. It takes them the entire straight at Indy in real life to set up a pass and sometimes they have to abort if they can't get far enough up.

Yeah mainly the point was that. But then the discussion diverged on other hot topics that somehow are related to the level of simulation of the game.

Now I always check when I enter the room for the level of draft and grip set.
It is a good way to have an idea of what kind of room it is...

 

[mvpers]

geez,

guess you dont watch F1, DRS, the idea is drive fast enough to pull ahead and keep the guy behind from getting "into" your draft.

thats the challenge.

 

[J91patriz]

geez,

guess you dont watch F1, DRS, the idea is drive fast enough to pull ahead and keep the guy behind from getting "into" your draft.

thats the challenge.

I don' think you read any of the previous posts. I was ahead and with quite a comfortable margin. And by the way you should look the link to the video I posted, and realise that draft does not equal to NOS. F1 drs is a completely different story...

 

[LVracerGT]

geez,

guess you dont watch F1, DRS, the idea is drive fast enough to pull ahead and keep the guy behind from getting "into" your draft.

thats the challenge.

DRS is completely different and does apply to any other series let alone GT5