Solid Lifters
I'm beginning to suspect you have no clue what you're talking about. Again, how do you think beginners are supposed to judge "feel" by? How one particular guitar feels to their hand is NOT going to cut it. They have to know WHY it feels good in their hands. That's why learning what neck scale, radius, width, thickness and fret size is so important. How can you overlook this? Don't you ask a salesman, "Hey man, what's the neck scale, radius and width on those new guitars?" Lord knows I do. It's a very critical guide to understanding how a guitar is going to fit in your hands. I can't believe you're overlooking it so quickly.
All I mean is that even if a beginner gets told all the measurements, they're gonna mean as much to him as the price of fish in Kazakstan. Its great to know what is different about each guitar relative to another, but a beginner ain't even gonna know what effect different radius'/neck thicknesses etc is gonna have. Hence going only by what they happen to like the feel of at the time is as good a way as any when they really don't know ANYTHING about guitars... You're just really not understanding what I mean here... no need to have a go at me.
Lets face it, most beginners choose a guitar based on "what guitar will sound most like so and so..." and then its about looks and colour. I didn't even know what a neck radius was (or any other technical info) when I got my first electric. I just knew that I liked the neck and the sound, and it was comfy to play (and looked like Hendrix's guitar - my idol at the time). I could already play a bit, as I'd done the whole cheap acoustic thing like yourself, trying to play Purple Haze on a $20 nylon stringer.
I actually think anyone who wants to learn guitar (but isn't SURE they will stick with it) should start on a really cheap acoustic, they can concentrate on getting the basics down like chords, fingerpicking, etc and make sure they like the instrument before getting an electric. Then get a good electric, something that will last them years and years.
They sound identical to the Mex Strat, and cost half the price.
RIGHTO then... You really don't know or care about Fenders, do you?
But he already stated he can't afford a $400 dollar guitar! Not paying attention? It does him no good to suggest it.
Hey I don't know what guitars cost in America - I'm Aussie (well I do know roughly, but hey any excuse'll do). I thought Fenders (being an American company and all) were much cheaper there. Besides, the thread is called "Good beginner guitars", not "Good beginner guitar that must be under $400US". As I said, other beginners may read this thread. Hence the strat is a fine guitar to recommend (for anyone else but this one guy). Do you really care that much?
That's complete bullcrap. Today's guitars are built better than ever. It's very easy, compared to twenty years ago, to find a cheap good starter guitar. Plus, I learned on a broken-down acoustic guitar with a cracked nut and bridgesaddle and severly worn frets. It buzzed all over the place, but I still played and learned and all of it by ear!
I said it was an absolute horrific worst case scenario. I made your exact same point (about most guitars being good quality these days) in an earlier post. Also, your experience of learning the guitar isn't relevant to my point of reccomending a beginner to get the absolute best guitar he/she can afford. Would you have wanted a better guitar than that broken acoustic? Hell yeah!
Your'e forgetting, he'a a beginner. He might not even like playing guitar!
I'm at least trying to encourage a lasting interest, I come from a biased position of thinking guitars are quite possibly the best investment anyone can make in life.
Well, you certainly implied it.
Nope, only that digital modelling stuff isn't that great yet. If an amp doesn't convert your guitar signal into 1s and 0s, I'm much happier. Call me old fashioned if you like, but for instance both Marshall and Fender have worked out people are tired of the digital deluge. They've reissued plexis, bluesbreaker combos, twins, vibroluxes, bassmans etc... its the obvious reaction to all this dead sounding digital stuff. Sure, its expensive, but cheap when you factor in a lifetime's enjoyment. Remember, the amplifier is half of your instrument, and just as (if not more so) important to how you sound. You don't have to buy tube, but at least get something that sounds inspiring in the shop, as opposed to getting sucked in by features and lots of knobs. JUST GO BY THE SOUND. Don't even look at the amp when you're demoing it... One good sound is worth more than 100 bad sounds.
Bullcrap. I have a Peavey Rage, a legend guitar amp, and a Spider II combo. I much rather play the Spider II combo. It sounds much better and has basic FX that is perfect for the beginner to start on.
So those couple of amps can talk for every other affordable solid state amp? If you really like the tone you get, well... its personal.
That's fine for you, but not for a beginner. Stop thinking so narrow minded. Think what it was like to start playing guitar for the first time. Anything that makes noise is fun and awesome. It takes time to develope taste and preferances. There's nothing wrong with starting with any Line 6 amp, even if their tone is not great, or whatever.
I remember what it was like to play (electric) guitar for the first time: "I want this to sound like Hendrix, and it doesn't!" "This amp sounds yucky and thin!!".
I'm just trying to eliminate a few of the 'steps' of the upgrade path, so they can keep their first guitar/amp for a longer period of time. Ultimately, it'll save them money- if they enjoy guitar. I don't care about people who will give up guitar, I'd rather give advice to those who actually have a passion for it.
BTW, thanks to listening to loads of awesome guitar players, I knew what good guitar playing should sound like right from the start - very frustrating with limited skill and money as a beginner I might add! I had loads of motivation to get better quick though, partly to justify better gear!
Maybe they hear the good stuff that you can't hear. Liking a particular guitar tone is subjective. You shouldn't hold you subjective feelings over the heads of beginners. Let them figure it out on their own. They need to develope their own tastes and their own style. Implying guitar amp tones is not going to help them in the least.
I agree about people needing to find their own voice. I was just giving my opinion however. People can disregard my opinion - they can still buy a Line6 amp regardless. I don't think that people necessarily put much stock in what advice I give about guitars on an internet forum dedicated to GT4 however. I'm gonna just say what I think, what I know from my experience. I'm just worried that a kid will play with all those knobs (and still not be inspired because of the tone) instead of just concentrating on what matters - playing the damn guitar. BTW there is nothing in the Line6 sound I'm missing, its just not good for the kinds of sounds I like - even compared to other cheap amps. Yes its subjective, yes you can ignore me if you like, and find out all about how sterile and limp a Line6 amp feels to play after buying one.
Its almost the antithesis of rock and roll. There is no rawness, no musical feedback... I could go on and on...
Again, this is subjective. It does him no good to state this. It's also incorrect. I can make my Peavey Rage, and 8" combo, scream and growl like mad. You gotta know how to use the sucker.
Any amp with a 10" speaker will fair much better in a room with drums and bass. I'm not saying the 8" cannot sound ok by itself, but it'll be overshadowed by a heavy handed drummer pretty quickly. Yes, I know how to get the VERY BEST from any amp I use. But my point wasn't about tone shaping, or twiddling knobs, its just the physical properties of a 10" speaker will be better if you ever want to start a little hobby band or just jam with mates. This helps directly when thinking about which first amp to get. Its not subjective. If you want to (or aspire to) jam with mates and stuff (or at school if you're young) then maybe you should get something just a little punchier than 15 watts with a 8" speaker to allow for this in the future.
No, they did make the Merle Haggard Telecaster. That was one sweet sounding guitar. But, that's it. Everything else, other than the Am Strat, is poop.
There goes any credibility as an objective guitar player. You just hate Fenders. Care to tell Mark Knopfler, Jimi Hendrix, SRV, Eric Clapton, Buddy Guy, Jeff Beck, David Gilmour, Albert Collins, Robert Cray, Eric Johnson, Jimmy Vaughan, Ritchie Blackmoore, JJ Cale, James Burton, Hank Marvin etc etc that their guitars are all poop? All of these players (at some point) played absolute stock standard models of strats/teles and defined their amazing sounds with them. IMO Fenders are just as good quality (if not BETTER) nowadays (closer tolerances in machining etc, more consistent pickups, better hardware) than many old 'vintage' Fenders (the CBS ones were just horrid). I went and saw Mark knopfler this year, he played his new signature strat, its just got texas special pickups like many US Fenders (like the SRV strat also - hey the Merle haggard tele has a texas special in the neck position), sounded bloody amazing. Best guitar tone i've ever heard from a non-vintage guitar. Guitars do sound better as the wood dries out and as the pickups age, so you can expect modern Fenders (or anything else) to get nicer as they age just like "vintage" guitars. I know my Fender sounds a little more warm and bell-like nowadays, I've had it 8 years. Really, you're just not a Fender man are you?
If you turn your nose up at these pickups,
http://www.kinman.com/Default.htm then you must really hate single coils and Fenders.
I can, but maybe a beginner can't, you think? Unless that's the tone he's after. Then, he should bust balls with it.
I can make a standard American strat sound exactly like Jimi Hendrix, SRV, Knopfler, David Gilmour etc. If these are poop tones by a poop guitar, just drill my ear out and fill it with selleys space invader. You have an irrational hatred of Fenders. Had a bad experience? Why?
Anybody would lose against Vai; including you. So, why bring this up? Pacificas are damn good guitars. And so are Carvins, but they're out of his price range, remember?
I was just highlighting how much of the tone is in the fingers, so unless you can play better than Vai (or any other world class guitarist, it didn't matter exactly who I chose), you have no real basis for attacking Fenders (and I've just told you what they can do in good hands). Beginners should find Fenders no easier or harder to play than anything else, apart from dealing with a little single coil hum... The thing is, Fenders really do need a good amp to get the proper sound they're famous for, otherwise the single coils can sound a little thin and weedy, when run through a Line6 for instance. And for God sakes, don't try and play metal on a strat. Malmsteen tried, it sounded bad. I think we have worked out our different taste in guitars, no?
PS Carvin is Vai's brand of amp, he uses Ibanez JEM guitars. The Pacifica really should be a good beginner guitar I think - covers most stylistic bases with its pickup configuration. I really stress if you know you're gonna stick with guitar, save up a little more and skip the real bargain basement stuff. You'll save some cash in the long run and thank me later. 👍
If you're gonna buy a guitar and stick it in the closet, just DON'T BUY ONE! 👍
Sorry for the mind-numbingly long post.
