Gran Turismo 5:Epilogue

[MeanElf]

A very amusing post OriginalCheezIt 👍

I'm pretty fed up of the GT5.5 comments too - as some will know from previous responses of mine. I also have the feeling that the PS4 with its 'time to triangle' rating being back to two months again, might well give us a break in the tradition of two titles per console.

You never know...

 

[another_jakhole]

A very amusing post OriginalCheezIt 👍

I'm pretty fed up of the GT5.5 comments too - as some will know from previous responses of mine. I also have the feeling that the PS4 with its 'time to triangle' rating being back to two months again, might well give us a break in the tradition of two titles per console.

You never know...

There. End of story. PS4's GT games will be, at the end of the day, better. That's judging by what I know about GT's PlayStation development history and Kaz's aspirations. I can only imagine how far PD has been held back considering the goal they've been trying to improve upon, simulation and games/gameyness.

 

[Samus]

There. End of story. PS4's GT games will be, at the end of the day, better.

Wut? How on earth is that "end of story" and somehow show that PS4 GT games will be better?

 

[another_jakhole]

Ahh, just as I expected. I knew your comment was for me and you didn't even let me finish . You should know by now that I'm not just a fanboy who spews ignorance. And that I always continue to add to my posts to avoid being questioned and "SOURCES PLZ!".

 

[Samus]

I don't see how it's my fault you don't finish your post before hitting 'reply'.

I still don't see how a better console for developing automatically means better games.

 

[Imari]

I knew your comment was for me and you didn't even let me finish .

How does someone get interrupted on a forum?

Anyway, feel free to finish now and explain how the "time to triangle", whatever that is, means that the PS4 games will be better.

 

[another_jakhole]

How does someone get interrupted on a forum?

Anyway, feel free to finish now and explain how the "time to triangle", whatever that is, means that the PS4 games will be better.

I was half-serious. I explain by telling him that he should know by now that I always edit my post after it's submitted since I notice that I can further explicate (enough) what my position is.

Why don't you look up the time-to-triangle thing. I remember hearing about it, but had to do a search. "Explain" it to yourself.

 

[Samus]

Time To Triangle as was explained in another thread will help developers get the most out of the console quicker but it in no way guarantees a better game.

 

[Imari]

I was half-serious. I explain by telling him that he should know by now that I always edit my post after it's submitted since I notice that I can further explicate (enough) what my position is.

Why don't you look up the time-to-triangle thing. I remember hearing about it, but had to do a search. "Explain" it to yourself.

Fine, I use Google to research what time-to-triangle means. It's basically time to create a graphics engine that uses the available power of the system. http://www.joystiq.com/2013/06/28/cerny-ps4s-time-to-triangle-to-rival-ps1/

Now what about the other half. You're making a claim. I'm asking you to back it up with some evidence that a lower time-to-triangle number means that a PS4 GT game will be better.

I see at best a very limited correlation between ease of creating a graphics engine and a "good game". If that was a strong correlation, there would be hardly any "good games" on PS3 and there were heaps.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Funny post Cheezit:tup:👍

I can settle the "PS4 version of GT will be better" argument easily. There is no guarantee the "game" will be better. Better, prettier graphics perhaps, possibly everything being of "premium" quality although that is not guaranteed either, but I'd venture to say it's highly likely.

But the "game" being better is not guaranteed. Each successive version of GT has not necessarily incorporated the best or most popular features of previous incarnations and GT5 went decidedly backwards in some areas and remained woefully stagnant in others. A good "game" involves more than just the nuts and bolts programming of a game, it's the overall feel, the long term playability, it's creating a desire on the part of gamers to play the game over and over, to tell all their friends and yes, to achieve positive critical reviews.

That is achievable on GT6, but certainly not guaranteed.

 

[Imari]

I can settle the "PS4 version of GT will be better" argument easily. There is no guarantee the "game" will be better. Better, prettier graphics perhaps, possibly everything being of "premium" quality although that is not guaranteed either, but I'd venture to say it's highly likely.

But the "game" being better is not guaranteed. Each successive version of GT has not necessarily incorporated the best or most popular features of previous incarnations and GT5 went decidedly backwards in some areas and remained woefully stagnant in others. A good "game" involves more than just the nuts and bolts programming of a game, it's the overall feel, the long term playability, it's creating a desire on the part of gamers to play the game over and over, to tell all their friends and yes, to achieve positive critical reviews.

That is achievable on GT6, but certainly not guaranteed.

Thank you for getting it.

 

[Tenacious D]

No, I think it's a given that GT7 on PS4 is going to be a better game than GT6. Just one aspect, tesselation being built into the PS4 hardware, rather than needing to be coded into the game engine, will be one less burden on the engineering team. And possibly work much better.

A more comprehensive, powerful GPU with access to all kinds of fast ram is going to make possible a lot of lighting effects on the fly, so that every track can have day to night transition, and artists free to paint scenery right without baking in shadows and lighting to help the system out.

Weather effects require some tricky calculations too, especially when you have a number of cars being simulated at once, and likely more than the 16 car limit of GT5.

Online clubs and leagues may be able to race 16 car fields or more, depending on how Gaikai's cloud helps with juggling all those players at once with low latency and hiccups.

Sound and Standard cars and tracks aside, most of the criticism of GT5 revolves around muddle-headed thinking. The completely unnecessary XP leveling system, the paint shop with NO Paint, incomplete online build, and... well, everyone has their gripe points. And I have to believe that the false starts GT5 had, coupled with "taskus interruptus" of GT PSP, the damage model we deplored that was scrapped, and SONY insisting that 3D be wedgied in, didn't help with that. From everything Kaz has said, the team has taken our criticism to heart, and GT6 sounds to be a much more focused Gran Turismo like we're used to.

And I have to remind people that this isn't the first Gran Turismo. Much of the team has been there since GT1, and I see no indication that they suffered some Big O-like mass amnesia. They have a legacy of producing some darn good racers, and you critics can balk at sales figures, but the fanbase has clung, dare I say it, tenaciously to this series, so they're doing something right to have such long lasting high selling appeal. And GT5 is still selling, so not everyone agrees with your assessment of suckage.

I still believe in Polyphony, and Kaz, and I'm not alone on this, and I'm pretty sure positive outlooks are still allowed around here.

 

[another_jakhole]

And I have to remind people that this isn't the first Gran Turismo. Much of the team has been there since GT1, and I see no indication that they suffered some Big O-like mass amnesia. They have a legacy of producing some darn good racers, and you critics can balk at sales figures, but the fanbase has clung, dare I say it, tenaciously to this series, so they're doing something right to have such long lasting high selling appeal. And GT5 is still selling, so not everyone agrees with your assessment of suckage.

I still believe in Polyphony, and Kaz, and I'm not alone on this, and I'm pretty sure positive outlooks are still allowed around here.

That's exactly the thing a lot of people like to dismiss. They say that PD took their time, rode the GT name wave and GT is doomed. All because of GT5? Dismissing the fact that PD took as long as they did, because Kaz overdid it with his expectations thus screwing up the priorities. Forgetting to mention that they scrapped their original plans of GT HD and that they had GT PSP to work on. We'd have GT6 by now had it not been for GT PSP, but Kaz said it himself, that what they learned through the development of GT PSP was OPTIMIZATION. Where there is a cause, there is an effect. Did I use that expression right? If I didn't, I instead will say one word, "Causality."

Anyway, did anyone expect the PS3 to be such a nightmare at first sight? Conversely, does anyone expect the PS4 to be a walk in a park at first sight? Not only is everything going to be easier for developers/PD, but the work is going to be done quicker and more efficiently which WILL give them MORE time to focus on the entirety of the game (not needing to pump out a game every other year like FM even though it's very, very, VERY possible.)

 

[Imari]

No, I think it's a given that GT7 on PS4 is going to be a better game than GT6.

Purely on the gameplay, I don't think that there's a clearcut argument that GT5 was better than GT4. In some respects it was, but in others it definitely wasn't.

So what makes you think that couldn't happen again?

Graphically, hardware is very important. But for making a fun game, hardware has an extremely limited role. It enables stuff like better physics and AI, but we don't need PS4 levels of hardware to do that. The "good game" part is largely down to good design, and PD have a reasonable historical precedent of getting some stuff right and some stuff very wrong.

I see nothing about a new set of hardware that makes it a certainty that they won't come up with some other howler along the lines of GT5s A-spec and EXP system.

 

[MeanElf]

I think our tenacious friend has put some good examples up to explain how it'll all become easier to impliment on the PS4. It's not just the ease of coding, though that'll prvide PD with far more freedom to spend time optimising what they choose to go with on the gameplay front.

I say trust 'em. Not everyone considers GT5 to be a mistake (well, as seen as a whole.) Even if others do not agree, it was certainly the only hiccup of any note in the series, so I think they'll be able to stretch their legs with GT7 and onwards.

 

[TheDabbinDave]

They didn't name Gran Turismo 2 (on the PS1) GT:Epilogue.

They didn't name Gran Turismo 4 (on the PS2) GT3:Epilogue.

Why, pray tell, should they name Gran Turismo 6 GT5:Epilogue?

Polyphony Digital has made two main Gran Turismo titles and a number of Prologue titles for each PlayStation system. I don't know why the PS3 should be any different.

The problem is GT2 didn't release the same year as PS2 launched and GT4 didn't release the same year as PS3. GT6 is coming out in the same launch window as PS4!!! THAT is kind of a screw up.

Also, GT2 came out quickly after GT1, not 3 or 6 years like 4-5 took.

 

[Samus]

No, I think it's a given that GT5 on PS3 is going to be a better game than GT4.

See what I did there? No matter how easy or hard it is to develop for a new console generation does not automatically mean a better game. Well, it obviously does in some areas like graphics but overall, in terms of gameplay, no.

 

[AXEofGOD]

The problem is GT2 didn't release the same year as PS2 launched and GT4 didn't release the same year as PS3. GT6 is coming out in the same launch window as PS4!!! THAT is kind of a screw up.

Also, GT2 came out quickly after GT1, not 3 or 6 years like 4-5 took.

Screwed up for sure.
Same Fiscal Quarter, probably within weeks of each other, is the reason I think it's a cash grab(Just like GT5P felt like)...but what else will I play until GT7.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Thank you for getting it.

Happens once a year or so..

No, I think it's a given that GT7 on PS4 is going to be a better game than GT6. Just one aspect, tesselation being built into the PS4 hardware, rather than needing to be coded into the game engine, will be one less burden on the engineering team. And possibly work much better.

A more comprehensive, powerful GPU with access to all kinds of fast ram is going to make possible a lot of lighting effects on the fly, so that every track can have day to night transition, and artists free to paint scenery right without baking in shadows and lighting to help the system out.

Weather effects require some tricky calculations too, especially when you have a number of cars being simulated at once, and likely more than the 16 car limit of GT5.

Online clubs and leagues may be able to race 16 car fields or more, depending on how Gaikai's cloud helps with juggling all those players at once with low latency and hiccups.

Sound and Standard cars and tracks aside, most of the criticism of GT5 revolves around muddle-headed thinking. The completely unnecessary XP leveling system, the paint shop with NO Paint, incomplete online build, and... well, everyone has their gripe points. And I have to believe that the false starts GT5 had, coupled with "taskus interruptus" of GT PSP, the damage model we deplored that was scrapped, and SONY insisting that 3D be wedgied in, didn't help with that. From everything Kaz has said, the team has taken our criticism to heart, and GT6 sounds to be a much more focused Gran Turismo like we're used to.

And I have to remind people that this isn't the first Gran Turismo. Much of the team has been there since GT1, and I see no indication that they suffered some Big O-like mass amnesia. They have a legacy of producing some darn good racers, and you critics can balk at sales figures, but the fanbase has clung, dare I say it, tenaciously to this series, so they're doing something right to have such long lasting high selling appeal. And GT5 is still selling, so not everyone agrees with your assessment of suckage.

I still believe in Polyphony, and Kaz, and I'm not alone on this, and I'm pretty sure positive outlooks are still allowed around here.

Certainly some things that plague GT5 will be easily resolved with the vastly superior hardware the PS4 offers. Thing is though, when GT7 is released, those things will be expected, they won't be revolutionary because likely someone else will have done it just as well already. And graphics and pretty pictures are only part of the "wow" factor. They impress at first, but after you've played for a while, they become routine and you are asking "now what"? We have no way of knowing what is on Kaz's mind but ask yourself these questions as to what could easily happen with GT6 and 7.

1. What if they keep the XP system and along with it, force everyone to slog through hours and hours of sleep inducing license tests in order to progress through the game?

2. What if Kaz decides that grinding is a great idea because it keeps everyone playing and does away with high payout seasonal events early in the game's life because with high payout seasonals, no one will slog through A-Spec?

3. What if the AI is never improved?

4. God forbid, but what if they rush GT7 for say a 2015 release and include several hundred standards because they just didn't have time to make everything premium?

5. What if they never develop a sorely needed, immersive, intricate, multipath career mode and instead stick with the same old A and B-Spec?

6. What if they are so focused on graphics and achieving a sound "breakthrough" as it was described, that the sounds remain terrible even in GT7?

See what I'm getting at? The potential is there for GT7 to be the greatest game in the history of the world, in any genre, but it requires a rethinking of the franchise and incorporating the best of the competition, while keeping and refining all the GT is known for. Can they pull it off? We shall see...

 

[AXEofGOD]

... We have no way of knowing what is on Kaz's mind but ask yourself these questions as to what could easily happen with GT6 and 7.

1. What if they keep the XP system and along with it, force everyone to slog through hours and hours of sleep inducing license tests in order to progress through the game?

2. What if Kaz decides that grinding is a great idea because it keeps everyone playing and does away with high payout seasonal events early in the game's life because with high payout seasonals, no one will slog through A-Spec?

3. What if the AI is never improved?

4. God forbid, but what if they rush GT7 for say a 2015 release and include several hundred standards because they just didn't have time to make everything premium?

5. What if they never develop a sorely needed, immersive, intricate, multipath career mode and instead stick with the same old A and B-Spec?

6. What if they are so focused on graphics and achieving a sound "breakthrough" as it was described, that the sounds remain terrible even in GT7?

See what I'm getting at? The potential is there for GT7 to be the greatest game in the history of the world, in any genre, but it requires a rethinking of the franchise and incorporating the best of the competition, while keeping and refining all the GT is known for. Can they pull it off? We shall see...

1. My gosh, my understanding of it has been so concrete for so long that I never expected them to make a drastic change like ridding us of license tests. ten seconds ago I was 100% expecting to see them in gt6. I for one am looking forward to them. Having 60 Golds in GT5 is awesome. Damn you IB-3 it took long enough but I got you!

2. I have to agree and also I never wanted to update my GT5 so I am still on v1.02 and never go online, Give me more tracks, and tracks upon tracks, if I must race for like 18 hours to move up from lvl33 to 34. I would rather see a more significant leap in the number of tracks than in the number of vehicles.

3. I would officially change the name to GT5E. At least give the A.I. drivers proper tires for crying out loud. Every tourny race in the rain has guys who must pit on the opening lap and it's over from there. Must and willchange!

4. Ouch. That would be an atrocity. I was expecting Zero Standard cars in gt6 so I have since changed my expectations to: Have all premium cars in GT7.

5. Expect A-spec and B-spec. and if there is a change the words "multi-path" are not on the radar right now.

6. This will probably be more of the same. If you are near a high powered automobile you can feel the sound, speakers just have a hard time replicating it.

 

[tankuroded]

The problem is GT2 didn't release the same year as PS2 launched and GT4 didn't release the same year as PS3. GT6 is coming out in the same launch window as PS4!!! THAT is kind of a screw up.

Also, GT2 came out quickly after GT1, not 3 or 6 years like 4-5 took.

Except GT2 and PS2 happened to release in the same year, actually. Albeit in different regions - GT2's 2000 release was for Europe and PS2's 2000 release was for Japan, IIRC.

Also, remember, the GT2000 tech demo (that would signal the birth of GT3) came out even before GT2 was out.

The whole GT5.5 thing is basically a form of this complaining: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ItsTheSameNowItSucks

 

[eran0004]

Just accept the fact that it's a different game and move on.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Its sad how many posts I have saw on this forum where people try to belittle GT6 by changing its name to something with a 5 in it. Really do some of the people here have nothing better to do than try an name a game they know very little about.

The only thing we know for sure is that it is different than GT5 in many ways and in many ways will be the same just as all other series of games usually are.

Bottom line, it is GT6 and if you want to get the game that is what you will need to order. An order for GT5.5 or GT5E will not cut it.

 

[MeanElf]

...Bottom line, it is GT6 and if you want to get the game that is what you will need to order. An order for GT5.5 or GT5E will not cut it.

I can imagine the scene already

 

[hardvibes]

The way I see it: GT6 = GT5:Epilogue.

 

[tpark103]

Be it that the case you can drop the number 5 as every sequel is an epilogue of the original.

 

[NCRthree]

Be it that the case you can drop the number 5 as every sequel is an epilogue of the original.

Should be Gran Turismo 1.6 in that case.

Maybe I should make a thread proclaiming that be the GT6's true name and publicly threatening not to purchase it unless it's changed! j/k of course, heh.

 

[Cosbuster]

Should be Gran Turismo 1.6 in that case.

"In next month's 0.013 update for Gran Turismo 1.6 ..."


Yeah, I could live with that. Sounds...

...classy.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Should be Gran Turismo 1.6 in that case.

Maybe I should make a thread proclaiming that be the GT6's true name and publicly threatening not to purchase it unless it's changed! j/k of course, heh.

To be honest, that's how I feel this thread is about.

@Cosbuster That was funny.

 

[tpark103]

Should be Gran Turismo 1.6 in that case.

Maybe I should make a thread proclaiming that be the GT6's true name and publicly threatening not to purchase it unless it's changed! j/k of course, heh.

I like the sound of that. It truly does flow naturally off the tongue. PS Don't forget "epilogue"