Gran Turismo 6 AI is scripted

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fet_thunderdome
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fetthunderdome
After years of intense GT playing, i came to the conclusion that AI in GT franchise does not exist. That explains several things:

1 - You can't select any difficulty
2 - If you hit someone he will not be affected (no spin, no change in the course, no slowdown) and will carry on as if nothing happened
3 - They ALWAYS do the same things, expecially on challenges. They move in the same way every time you do the race/licence/challenge.

I'm pretty sure that if i would make a race and end it in last position, the other cars will do the very same things over and over again without a change.
 
You can select difficulty and aggression in arcade
If you are very determined you can run them off the road. I tried one day.
If you are parked on the driving line they will go around...
And on occasion the finishing order on some of the more evenly matched series will change up some.
There is AI in there. Just not the most brilliant.
 
GT6's A.I is worst than GT5's. There is no doubt about that. What pisses me off is not that they are easy to beat, but that they returned to the old habits of GT4. In GT5 they at least avoided collisions and they maintained their distance during a turn. If they knew you were going to go for an overtake, they would open themselves.

Now it's just like in GT4. Just a bunch of mindless bricks driving around the track.
 
There's plenty of threads about the A.I... It's known that it sucks, it's known that it's scripted, it's known they slow down to let you win, it's known they don't crash..

I can go on and on.. GT's A.I. has always sucked, are some of you just now realizing this? Let's stop beating the dead horse.
 
nope sorry... forza motorsport 5 has the most clever, fun and intelligent AI in any racer game. Drivatar is something wonderful.
that's because there is no AI anymore. it's a modified physical replay of another fm5 player for one to race against so the developers don't have to worry about producing artificial intelligence
 
I seriously almost quit GT6 yesterday... I spent 6 hours trying to beat the Kart 100 series... Autumn ring was fairly easy... but GT Arena was awful... no matter how fast you went, the lead car always stays about half a second ahead of you... lap two, you can set the world record time and the rabbit will still pull away by two seconds from you... it was frustrating... I can't believe I wasted 6 hours of my life on that... the Kart Space track is just ridiculous... I've completely given up on it... there is no way in the world you can go as fast as the AI around that middle bend... ridiculous... the kart races are just retarded... hands down worst thing in the game...
 
I seriously almost quit GT6 yesterday... I spent 6 hours trying to beat the Kart 100 series... Autumn ring was fairly easy... but GT Arena was awful... no matter how fast you went, the lead car always stays about half a second ahead of you... lap two, you can set the world record time and the rabbit will still pull away by two seconds from you... it was frustrating... I can't believe I wasted 6 hours of my life on that... the Kart Space track is just ridiculous... I've completely given up on it... there is no way in the world you can go as fast as the AI around that middle bend... ridiculous... the kart races are just retarded... hands down worst thing in the game...

The key is in the first chicane. The A.I brakes a lot there. That's the only place to gain advantage other than braking late in the first corner. They are also slow at the exit of the tight right hander that takes to the long turn towards the main straight. GT Arena is easy. Kart Space in the other hand is a nightmare.
 
Perhaps staged but certainly not scripted in the hard coding sense.

Not moving when hit is a system based on collision. Doing the same thing every time is how they are setup and though this takes time to do, given the exact same circumstance will result in the same logic...

And considering the GT AI has a very narrow logic, it will always strive to return to the optimal path "normal state".

There can easily be scripted circumstances but not likely without it having a collateral effect that would be even more obvious to a systemic system.

I would also assume you might be using license tests or missions as an example and I would get what you mean but a systemic approach is actually easier than a fully scripted one.

AI in games are based on a computational "brain" that has a certain amount of choices based on circumstance with a "normal state" that is default in the absence of anything situationally effecting it. This is a leading weakness in computational AI as its more reactionary and relies on player input vs actually proactively deciding what to do more dynamically. Think chess AI is good AI? Nope, its pure logic and can easily beat you every time... But I digress.

What we have in GT is likely a very simplistic brain that always strives to return to the normal state than using a series of choices that would result in tricking us to think its actually thinking...

So simple in fact that it could easily be mistaken as scripted. And I think this is by design in GT... The other cars as just pace markers, not actually racing you... Sure they speed up after you pass, that's a simple reaction that eventually wears off after a fixed number of times the AI fails.

Japanese game development has always been about a series of predefined "moves" that are rather linear and tend to be more like logic puzzles than dynamic encounters. As anyone who is ace at monster hunter, street fighter, etc. this reality also lends strength to your argument but isn't as easily applied to a driving/racing game.

Pd just dodged the innovation risk by sticking to the cultural industry norm for a Japanese developed game... And figure if you want a real thinking challenge then go online... Not my preference but a well established norm.
 
Here is a copy of my post from the "we want GT5 AI back" forum post earlier.

Here is how difficult AI programming is and why it looks like PD and others have settled for their current attempts.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/132313/the_pure_advantage_advanced_.php?print=1

It seems like new avenues need to be found.

If you click on the link it will show you how it is done. PD follow almost the exact route with their AI.

It's a good read for anyone interested.
 
yup, that's what I noticed... I gain on them the first part of the race but then I get to the middle bend and they disappear... if I go any faster, the kart spins... did you add any ballast maybe?
 
yup, that's what I noticed... I gain on them the first part of the race but then I get to the middle bend and they disappear... if I go any faster, the kart spins... did you add any ballast maybe?

Erm... wrong thread me thinks... :D
 
The AI are "scripted" in the technical sense, because they are programmed to do a certain thing in response to certain actions. The issue with crashing into them is due to the horrible collision physics that the GT games have always had; and while I also noticed that the Special Event/Seasonal Event/Licence Test AI does do the same identical thing every single time (best seen in the 2012 GT Academy races which relied so heavily on drafting), the actual race AI is highly reactive to the player and other AI drivers in terms of awareness and response. Not at all the same as it was in the first 4 titles.
 
The AI is in a way "Bolted" to the track.

If one overtakes you it can push you off the racing line even if you have full lock and are trying to prevent it.

But you cant push the off in the sane manner
 
Saying AI is scripted is kind of silly since AI in almost all (if not all) games is scripted. Game AI doesn't learn. It responds to given situations in the way it's scripted to. Technically, the term AI is a misnomer since it doesn't exist. Game AI is all smoke and mirrors.
 
Meh, the AI in this game is set to let you catch up if you happen to go off the road, but if you take too long to pass them they will return to their pattern and you will not catch them again unless you drive the wheels off your car. I have witnessed the AI in GT6 do a lot of things, but they are better than the idiots in GT5. Sorry but GT5 AI get's cold feet the instant you get anywhere near their quarter panel and they delay getting back on the gas for a considerable amount of time. GT6 the AI rarely if ever does that and they will take an opening if you give them one, I have encroached the AI line and they bumped me but rarely pushed me off the road, I don't mind the bumping. I have never ever since I had GT6 had the AI ram me, I've rammed them by under braking quite a few times but never seen them do that ever.

Some people complain about the AI ramming them I fail to find how this is possible unless you were braking way too early for a corner or you spun out on a high speed area when it's hard to avoid that sort of thing even if you were human. If the AI could avoid you in any situation then obviously that's just cheating. I just don't understand why PD doesn't give us a difficulty setting for AI in single player, I would prefer if the AI would drive tenaciously with any car and not have a few weak AI lumped in with pro driver AI. I hope B Spec is equal parts GT4 and some of that Forza Drivatar, want them to learn on their own and also nab techniques from other drivers or perhaps you can have it use your techniques. How well PS3 copes with learning AI is anyone's guess but it's not like it's totally impossible mainly attack vectors and taking chances and hoping they pay off. GT AI seems to run on a modified physics engine since they seem to retain control of their cars' much better than a human, it's to be expected since the AI knew you were going to come into contact with them and already started calculating the adjustments necessary to keep their car under control. PD could fix that by delaying the AI recognition of the impending contact and not allow them the usual superhuman reaction speed.

In somewhat equal cars the AI is ok, but they are just too clinical when it comes to turns. It's like they are programmed not to push the car unless provoked, when it should be to push the car within limits when in the lead and to defend when another car approaches and to step up it's push within the limits of the car condition. It would be great if the AI learns as you play the game and they get better along with you, they are given risk parameters for weather, tire damage, fuel level and overall car health and that is applied to their position and the overall abilities of the car(PP). If they can get a system that takes that into account to how hard the AI will push in order to move up in positions and ultimately the lead. They could also have a secondary mode when the AI knows they can't win but they won't give up their spot without a fight, I'd love to see something like that implemented in GT one of these days. If I was still programming I would give it a go, but no thanks. PD already have a nice base, they just need more sub routines for aggression and the AI being less timid about cornering. I for one would enjoy close PP races and not the large PP gap from 1st to last and more X2 race starts. When you have a close PP race that requires your full attention just to make it up a couple of spots then the AI is done right, mind you without cheating that is.
 
The AI are "scripted" in the technical sense, because they are programmed to do a certain thing in response to certain actions. The issue with crashing into them is due to the horrible collision physics that the GT games have always had; and while I also noticed that the Special Event/Seasonal Event/Licence Test AI does do the same identical thing every single time (best seen in the 2012 GT Academy races which relied so heavily on drafting), the actual race AI is highly reactive to the player and other AI drivers in terms of awareness and response. Not at all the same as it was in the first 4 titles.
There's a problem: collisions are way different if you hit someone or someone hits you. If you hit someone you bounce off and he stays still. If someone hits you, you spin around or go off road as in real life happens.
 
Think they was saying something similar in the Forza series, about the weight of the AI, both in same car and collide you suffer the AI continues with his Sunday drive. Although I was happy to see last night when using the AMG VGT and getting very peed off with an AI Veyron I decided to "nudge" hime and found to my pleasure the AI car seemed to suffer from the collision more than I'd seen with any other car, needless to say I worked out some of my issues with the help of the AMG VGT and continued to "nudge" the AI till I was all "nudged" out :)
 
Definitely not scripted, i've seen something i haven't seen before in gt5, which is the AI drivers skidding into the sand pits while understeering a corner. Atleast AI is more prone to mistakes.

In anything but the races, it is scripted, especially for challenges. That i know from gt5, if they followed the same design with gt6.
 
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