Gran Turismo 6 physics Question

[Simracer77]

Hi guys, I m new with ps3/xbox360 simracing , I have a question about gt6 and forza 4.I played by a friend of mine Forza4 and its feels like A Arcade Racinggame.Has GT6 a better driving physics or is close to real? I hear its better as Forza4.


Thanks

 

[nickg07]

Try it and see.

 

[Ice0l8ed]

Gt is a simulation, forza is an arcade. Take from that what you will.

 

[Simracer77]

Ok thanks for your help. I prefer simulation. Ill go to GT6!!

 

[Johnnypenso]

Ok thanks for your help. I prefer simulation. Ill go to GT6!!

GT isn't simulation, not even close, but it is probably the closest thing to it on console, although many Forza fans would disagree. If you really want something closer to a real sim, you have to look to PC at the moment and the PS4/PC/XBone when PCars releases in a few months.

 

[Ice0l8ed]

...

 

[332i]

...

He is right. I love GT, but it is a simcade at best. There is so much missing in the setup dept that it is ridiculous. It should be much harder to piece a proper setup together.

 

[Ice0l8ed]

...

 

[332i]

...

How do you figure it is a simulation?

 

[Ice0l8ed]

How do you figure it is a simulation?

It's not whether I think it's a simulator or not. It's more to do with we generally know what the op was asking but people are doing the "well actually" thing. I believe gt can be generally accepted as more of a sim than arcade.

 

[332i]

It's not whether I think it's a simulator or not. It's more to do with we generally know what the op was asking but people are doing the "well actually" thing. I believe gt can be generally accepted as more of a sim than arcade.

OP asked if it close to real and if it is better than forza. It is better than forza, but not close to real. It is fun. It feels nice. It is no simulation yet. With time, maybe. There are simulators out there and GT is not one of them. Just like I wouldn't refer to chocolate as a fruit.

 

[Ice0l8ed]

And I'd say It isn't the most accurate sim.

 

[Simracer77]

I played before only sim racing on Pc but my hardware is broken .I have now Gt6 and is much better than Forza4 (only good in fm4 is , sound , livery editor and porsche...the graphics looks like a cartoon )

the look in GT6 is more realistic and I can drive in the rain and night . Oh is this normal fm4 the wheels look terrible no brands like Michelin or Dunlop...

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I played before only sim racing on Pc but my hardware is broken .I have now Gt6 and is much better than Forza4 (only good in fm4 is , sound , livery editor and porsche...the graphics looks like a cartoon )

the look in GT6 is more realistic and I can drive in the rain and night . Oh is this normal fm4 the wheels look terrible no brands like Michelin or Dunlop...

If you are interested in driving realistically setup cars, visit my replica garage, link on my sig Some of my latest release is NSX GT2 Team Kunimitsu replica, HKS Accord Euro R, Camaro GT4, Maserati MC GT4, Corvette GT4, ATS/Across EG6 Civic Race Car They are built to be close to real life counterpart in performance, lap time and handling. So most will have real life alignment approach, LSD that lock like LSD, correct weight + distribution, no exploit on physics like ride height ( replicate even when detrimental to the car ) and gearing that are often replicating real life ratios.

 

[Simracer77]

i tested some Gt6 and Forza4 cars same track and cars..forza 4 is a arcade ,typical Americans build cars like a boot..

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I would be interested to hear what you think about the Maserati MC GT4 replica on GT6 and the Forza 4 version Drive it at Silverstone GP

 

[ULTRAVIOLENZZ]

With proper tune and setup I think it could change the gameplay from arcady to simcady.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Proper tire and real life oriented setup helps a lot ( springs, damper, alignment, gearing and LSD ) , even GT6 drives incredibly well for a console My next release will be a good example of this :


Mugen CIVIC SSR /
TEIN ATS ED Cars - Tokai PALLAS : Driver T. Matsui ( Civic One Make Series )

Replicating lap time on 3 different tracks in Japan Drives like a FD2 One Make Race Car, at least for me

 

[Exorcet]

Forza is generally a better simulation than GT. Tires especially which can be a big deal. There is an existing Forza vs GT physics thread (though it might be in the GT5 section). You can look there for lots of information.

Now, I don't own GT6, though I have used it a little. It still seems to fall short compared to Forza in a few areas like suspension and tires. GT tends to feature very dumbed down weight transfer and changing suspension settings may do very little or even the opposite what you would expect. FF cars and older heavy cars in GT feel entirely unconvincing while Forza 4 does a decent job of capturing their nature.

Tire grip in GT is basically hardcoded which is entirely unrealistic. In Forza grip varies from car to car. Forza also has slightly better implementation of driver aids. ABS in GT is nothing like real ABS, while in Forza you can see and feel the ABS system rapidly applying the brakes.

GT's aero simulation is also simpler as downforce doesn't seem to depend on car orientation (at least in GT5, I have not tested this in GT6). You can be completely sideways and your wing will still function at 100%. I've never felt this happen in Forza.

If you're looking for a fairly realistic console simulator with a wide variety of cars and tuning, Forza is hard to beat. I wouldn't recommend GT unless there was some specific feature that you really like about it, or you weren't so concerned with realism.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

GT6 suspension tuning now is very responsive, 1 click damper change or 1 click ARB change can alter the car handling and gives distinct change ( tuning in comfort tire can help too ). Ride height effect is still reversed, while camber already shows improvement from 1.09.

On one of my replica, lowering rear damper extension by 1 or increasing rear ARB by 1 can make it easier or harder to drive ( handle differently under load from mid corner ) - this is not the same as in GT5.

FF cars are some of the most fun to drive in GT6, with proper weight distribution and setup. Most FF car replica I made have corrected distribution, GT6 often shift the weight rearward to make it less understeer and spring rate of stock suspension often wrong as well as alignment and LSD setup. Don't expect ANY stock cars in GT6 to drive like their real life counterpart without tuning it to do so. Fitting 2 level lower tire also necessary as stock tire are always grippier than factory fitted tire IRL - PD treating everyone as casual player I have some friend who drove my replicas and also owned the real car, and they say the replica drive very close to the real one.

 

[Simracer77]

forza 4 is for me only for painting..but for driving is GT6 better...btw has night racing and weather ..a lots of beautiful racetracks...and for GT6 comming updates ...

 

[KingPing]

GT6 suspension tuning now is very responsive, 1 click damper change or 1 click ARB change can alter the car handling and gives distinct change ( tuning in comfort tire can help too ). Ride height effect is still reversed, while camber already shows improvement from 1.09.

On one of my replica, lowering rear damper extension by 1 or increasing rear ARB by 1 can make it easier or harder to drive ( handle differently under load from mid corner ) - this is not the same as in GT5.

FF cars are some of the most fun to drive in GT6, with proper weight distribution and setup. Most FF car replica I made have corrected distribution, GT6 often shift the weight rearward to make it less understeer and spring rate of stock suspension often wrong as well as alignment and LSD setup. Don't expect ANY stock cars in GT6 to drive like their real life counterpart without tuning it to do so. Fitting 2 level lower tire also necessary as stock tire are always grippier than factory fitted tire IRL - PD treating everyone as casual player I have some friend who drove my replicas and also owned the real car, and they say the replica drive very close to the real one.

You are basically doing what PD should have done! Kudos for you!👍

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

You are basically doing what PD should have done! Kudos for you!👍

Thanks Here is an example of what I built, drive the Accord at Mt Panorama + 30% water on track + 100% weather + 0% weather change in arcade single race, fit comfort medium and be prepared to be surprised - enjoy Pick stock ride height, track, HKS Test Car height or lowest stance, all good.

HKS HIPERMAX III
HONDA Accord Euro R '02 CL7

Tuned to replicate Honda Accord Euro R CL7 tuned with HKS HIPERMAX III
Comfort Medium

​

CAR : Honda Accord Euro R '02
Tire : Comfort Medium

Specs
Horsepower: 217 HP at 8100 RPM
Torque : 154.9 ft-lb at 6200 RPM
Power Limiter at : 96.5%
Weight: 1360 kg
Ballast : 96 kg
Ballast Position : -14
Weight Distribution : 61 / 39 as the real car spec.
Performance Points: 400


GT AUTO
NO Oil change
Improve Body Rigidity ( NOT INSTALLED )
Wheels : +1 Inch Up - BLITZ BRW Profile 08 in Silver or RAYS VR.G2 in Black
Car Paint : White

Tuning Parts Installed :
Catalytic Converter Sports
Fully Customizable Suspension
Adjustable LSD
Weight Reduction Stage 1

Suspension - HKS HIPERMAX III ( HKS Street STOCK Recommended Ride Height + Test Car Alignment )
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 153 145
Spring Rate: 9.00 5.00
Dampers (Compression): 4 7
Dampers (Extension): 5 8
Anti-Roll Bars: 2 3
Camber Angle: 0.5 2.0
Toe Angle: 0.00 0.26 ( Test Car Setup : Toe/Camber Front in 0 mm / -0°30' Toe/Camber Rear in 3.5 mm / -2°00' )

Suspension - HKS HIPERMAX III ( HKS Street STOCK Recommended Ride Height + Standard Factory Recommended Alignment )
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 153 145
Spring Rate: 9.00 5.00
Dampers (Compression): 4 7
Dampers (Extension): 5 8
Anti-Roll Bars: 2 3
Camber Angle: 0.0 1.5
Toe Angle: 0.16 0.16 ( Standard Factory Range : Toe/Camber Front in 0 ± 2mm / -0°00' ± 45' Toe/Camber Rear in 2 ± 2mm / -1°30' ± 45' )


Suspension - HKS HIPERMAX III ( HKS Street/Track HIGH Recommended Ride Height + Test Car Alignment )
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 122 142
Spring Rate: 9.00 5.00
Dampers (Compression): 4 7
Dampers (Extension): 5 8
Anti-Roll Bars: 2 3
Camber Angle: 0.5 2.0
Toe Angle: 0.00 0.26 ( Test Car Setup : Toe/Camber Front in 0 mm / -0°30' Toe/Camber Rear in 3.5 mm / -2°00' )

Suspension - HKS HIPERMAX III ( HKS Street/Track HIGH Recommended Ride Height + Standard Factory Recommended Alignment )
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 122 142
Spring Rate: 9.00 5.00
Dampers (Compression): 4 7
Dampers (Extension): 5 8
Anti-Roll Bars: 2 3
Camber Angle: 0.0 1.5
Toe Angle: 0.16 0.16 ( Standard Factory Range : Toe/Camber Front in 0 ± 2mm / -0°00' ± 45' Toe/Camber Rear in 2 ± 2mm / -1°30' ± 45' )


Suspension - HKS HIPERMAX III ( HKS Test Car Ride Height + Test Car Alignment )
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 97 117
Spring Rate: 9.00 5.00
Dampers (Compression): 4 7
Dampers (Extension): 5 8
Anti-Roll Bars: 2 3
Camber Angle: 0.5 2.0
Toe Angle: 0.00 0.26 ( Test Car Setup : Toe/Camber Front in 0 mm / -0°30' Toe/Camber Rear in 3.5 mm / -2°00' )

Suspension - HKS HIPERMAX III ( HKS Test Car Ride Height + Standard Factory Recommended Alignment )
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 97 117
Spring Rate: 9.00 5.00
Dampers (Compression): 4 7
Dampers (Extension): 5 8
Anti-Roll Bars: 2 3
Camber Angle: 0.0 1.5
Toe Angle: 0.16 0.16 ( Standard Factory Range : Toe/Camber Front in 0 ± 2mm / -0°00' ± 45' Toe/Camber Rear in 2 ± 2mm / -1°30' ± 45' )


Suspension - HKS HIPERMAX III ( HKS Lowest Stance Drivable Ride Height +
Test Car Alignment )
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 85 96
Spring Rate: 9.00 5.00
Dampers (Compression): 4 7
Dampers (Extension): 5 8
Anti-Roll Bars: 2 3
Camber Angle: 0.5 2.0
Toe Angle: 0.00 0.26 ( Test Car Setup : Toe/Camber Front in 0 mm / -0°30' Toe/Camber Rear in 3.5 mm / -2°00' )

Suspension - HKS HIPERMAX III ( HKS Lowest Stance Drivable Ride Height +
Standard Factory Recommended Alignment )
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 85 96
Spring Rate: 9.00 5.00
Dampers (Compression): 4 7
Dampers (Extension): 5 8
Anti-Roll Bars: 2 3
Camber Angle: 0.0 1.5
Toe Angle: 0.16 0.16 ( Standard Factory Range : Toe/Camber Front in 0 ± 2mm / -0°00' ± 45' Toe/Camber Rear in 2 ± 2mm / -1°30' ± 45' )

​

LSD - 1.5 Way Cusco RS
Initial Torque : 22
Acceleration Sensitivity: 33
Braking Sensitivity: 13



Brake Balance:
5/7 ( personal BB) or for ABS 0 wheel : 5/7, for ABS 1 - feel free to use your preferred brake balance.

Recommended setting for DS3 user :

Steering sensitivity at +1 or +2, all aids off, except ABS 1 ( if not comfortable with ABS 0 ) with 5/7 brake balance as starting point.

Notes :


The CL7 Accord Euro R, the next generation of Accord Type R, sporting K20A engine instead the H22A7 2.2 of previous generation CL1.

This replica is based on HKS HIPERMAX III test/demo car. Power is 217HP / 220PS, to reach this I have installed catalytic converter sports and limit the power to 217HP. Stock power in GT6 is only 215HP when bought. Weight is at 1360kg, based on corner weight figure reports with 61/39 weight distribution.

HKS HIPERMAX III is fitted with 9/5 springs, a rear helper springs at 4.7N/mm or 0.48 kg/mm rate also fitted to help it stays in place under extreme conditions and full droop. I have tuned the damper and ARB for good balance on street tires. I have also provided a wide variety of ride height setup and test car + standard factory recommended alignment. I highly recommend to try all of them, from stock to lowest ride height on both alignment, see which one suits you best.

I also fitted LSD, 1.5 way based on Cusco RS as I felt that the stock GT6 LSD is not good enough. In real life, CL7 Accord Euro R has helical LSD from factory. The LSD setup in this replica gives solid traction and nice balance from mid corner to exit, maintain partial throttle from on mid corner to point the car for exit when driving on street tires, this will ensure good traction while not causing the front tire to push.

I tested the Accord Euro R HKS Hipermax III at Tsukuba, aiming to replicate real life Tsukuba Best Motoring lap record at 1:11.14 on stock 220PS Accord Euro R CL7. The replica can lap in flat 1:11s with a clean run using all different ride height + both alignment and should be able to lap in high 1:10s range. I also drove the car at Mt Panorama Bathurst, very fun on CM tire.




ENJOY

HKS STOCK Recommended Ride Height

 

[DrDetroit]

Ride height effect is still reversed, while camber already shows improvement from 1.09.

I'm fairly new to GT6, getting well adjusted though with lots of track time and tuning. What do you mean ride height is reversed? Please expound, as I've been reducing ride height to get lower center of gravity on my cars....should I be raising the ride height if reversed?

Thanks in advance!

DrDetroit

 

[GranTurismo guy]

Thanks Here is an example of what I built, drive the Accord at Mt Panorama + 30% water on track + 100% weather + 0% weather change in arcade single race, fit comfort medium and be prepared to be surprised - enjoy Pick stock ride height, track, HKS Test Car height or lowest stance, all good.

Comfort medium? Why on earth comfort medium?

 

[Johnnypenso]

I'm fairly new to GT6, getting well adjusted though with lots of track time and tuning. What do you mean ride height is reversed? Please expound, as I've been reducing ride height to get lower center of gravity on my cars....should I be raising the ride height if reversed?

Thanks in advance!

DrDetroit

I haven't played in a while but basically if you did the opposite of real life it worked. Want more oversteer? Raise, not lower the front. Want to remove oversteer? Lower, not raise the front. Was the same in GT5 for a long time.

Comfort medium? Why on earth comfort medium?

To mimic real life grip and laptimes.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I haven't played in a while but basically if you did the opposite of real life it worked. Want more oversteer? Raise, not lower the front. Want to remove oversteer? Lower, not raise the front. Was the same in GT5 for a long time.

To mimic real life grip and laptimes.

Treed, like what Johnny says, ride height is the opposite of real life and the effect also override the chassis balance, no matter how bad or good you car was setup, simply by raising front or lowering front, instant effect applied, reduced or increased rotation, the strength of the effect depend on how many is the value difference. Extreme differences ( min/max ) gives the greatest increase or reduction in rotation possible. The side effect of this could vary depending on the other suspension and LSD setup as well as weight distribution and drivetrain layout ( MR,RR,FR, AWD or FF ) A badly tuned suspension could result unpredictable behavior on certain stage of a corner - good entry rotation but understeer on mid corner etc.

As for the CM tire on the Accord Euro R, yep, lap time at Tsukuba, 1:11.14 with realistic driving pace, clean and no assist. CM lap time can still be quicker in the hands of alien who drives alien pace unlike real life pace would Watching a lot of onboard cam of Best Motoring show lap at Tsukuba could give reference on how cars are pushed/driven hard at the track, the pace and cornering speed.

 

[ALB123]

@Ridox2JZGTE -- I've got a question for you. How are you able to track down so much information on all of those wonderful replica builds you produce? I probably should have asked this question in your garage, but it just popped into my head when I was looking through the tune you posted in this thread for the HKS Hipermax III HONDA Accord Euro R '02 CL7. I'm amazed at how you locate this extremely detailed information! For this car alone you have provided something like six different real-world alignment/suspension setups. Amazing...

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

@Ridox2JZGTE -- I've got a question for you. How are you able to track down so much information on all of those wonderful replica builds you produce? I probably should have asked this question in your garage, but it just popped into my head when I was looking through the tune you posted in this thread for the HKS Hipermax III HONDA Accord Euro R '02 CL7. I'm amazed at how you locate this extremely detailed information! For this car alone you have provided something like six different real-world alignment/suspension setups. Amazing...

The HKS Accord infos are collected from manuals, infos from people I know who work in tuning scene, web ( Japanese HKS technical info page, not sure if still exist now )

 

[ALB123]

The HKS Accord infos are collected from manuals, infos from people I know who work in tuning scene, web ( Japanese HKS technical info page, not sure if still exist now )

Wow. Talk about dedication! I can tell you are very passionate about your tuning. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the thing I love about driving your replica's is, I bought GT6 so I could drive all of these different amazing cars that I lust for, but in a virtual environment. Unfortunately, too often we turn away from keeping the cars true to their roots just so we can add more power, more grip, more downforce. Now, I'm not saying that modding a car isn't acceptable, of course it is! But cars lose their individual character when they're all maxed out in upgrades and given ridiculously grippy tires. Your replica's remind me why I bought GT6 in the first place...