Gran Turismo 7: Latest news and discussion thread

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I noticed just now what you meant by mentioning the similar GT4 UI (in the Trailer)

My bad my bad, I got up 25 minutes ago xD


Edit: To RandomCarGuy17, yeah I'm a bit slow today, haven't gotten to my coffee yet ^^
I think we've all been there first thing in the morning
 
Everyone will blame me, but I have to say this. Why is the event important? I think games like this should give different pleasure to all users. Because games like GT7 are accessory games, if your equipment is good, you are good too. That's why each user evaluates it separately.


Other Games:
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GT7:
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Everyone will blame me, but I have to say this. Why is the event important? I think games like this should give different pleasure to all users. Because games like GT7 are accessory games, if your equipment is good, you are good too. That's why each user evaluates it separately.


Other Games:
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GT7:
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I don't know about you, but I switched to steering wheel (in this case LVL3) and I still get beaten by my friends with their controllers...the equipment has something to do with skill, yes, but not this much (in my opinion at least)
 
That and the racing while silly was more engaging.
The amount of events or cars does not direclty translate into the engagement you will pull out and create fun with, and then add the theme to the game to see how these 3 things combine to create memorable moments.

Then you can compare GT to Forza To ACC to Grid to Dirt to Need for Speed to .... to Mario Kart.
For the enthusiast any of the "sim games" will beat any of the "fun games" and only compete in their same grade.
For the mor casual player it may be quite a different story.
I never liked any Need for Speed except for NFSU (part 1, because of drifting)
I never liked drifting in GT
I really sank quite a lot of time into non sim games, but I doubt all of them can keep up with the combined hours of GT*
Yet, to me the best total package racing game was Grid Legends, while the most fun racing game will always be Mega Man Racing with its totally unfair and hardly beatable final track AI.
Ridge Racer was remembered as the worst of all, even worse than if Street Fighter: The movie - the game was a racing game.
 
I don't know about you, but I switched to steering wheel (in this case LVL3) and I still get beaten by my friends with their controllers...the equipment has something to do with skill, yes, but not this much (in my opinion at least)
I am LVL 2, but there is an incredible difference compared to LVL 1. I'm moving towards LVL 3.

Do you think it is easier to turn the steering wheel with a 1 cm knob or a 20 - 25 cm circle?

Of course this is a start. such as car settings, track information, continuous training. But it would be nice to start the match with a 1-0 lead.?
 
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Here's every mainline GT's count by my count. Only races and championships are counted, so things like missions and GT5/6s special events are not.

GT1 59
GT2 228
GT3 337
GT4 511
GT5 141 (A-spec only, it doesn't get double credit for B-spec being separate versions of the same races)
GT6 201
GTS 301
GT7 236

So from a length perspective GT4 is the longest by far, then GT3 and Sport, then 2/6/7 all kind of together, then GT5 needing B-spec to pad itself, then GT1 last which is forgiveable as game 1 in the series.

Let say these numbers are "pages", then GT4 was a 511 pages book, while GT7 is a heap of 236 pages fallen out of a folder.

Numbers are just numbers, structure is more important than a raw number of events. They can pile as many events as they want in GT7, if they do not fit into a coherent structure they don't serve any goal to me.
 
I think the event count is so important at this stage because many of us are playing endgame and finding out how lacking it really is.

Of course we want a proper, fully featured progression path through to endgame, with many events, series and championships that uses the whole roster of car classes/types, but this is where we are.

In the absence of good structure/progression, you need a great endgame. With a great structure/progression, the endgame events should be your biggest and greatest events that leave you with a sense of completion of scaling the mountain of content.
 
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I am LVL 2, but there is an incredible difference compared to LVL 1. I'm moving towards LVL 3.

Do you think it is easier to turn the steering wheel with a 1 cm knob or a 20 - 25 cm circle?
It's not as simple as that. The implementation is such that controller users can very much keep up with wheel users. If you need proof, just look at the leaderboard that's regularly posted in the time trial results thread. You can definitely be competitive on a controller. Now, immersion is a different topic. I wouldn't want to go back to a controller even if I were faster on it.
 
I think it's pretty clear that the majority of events in World Circuits are not very interesting. There are a few exceptions, but aside from these, I have mostly ignored WC events since completing the menu books, apart from doing the weekly challenges, which are hit and miss, largely as a result of chase the rabbit. I think the criticism of these events is mostly fair.

But what I find interesting / fascinating is how much people care about this. For me, these World Circuit events are more like a quick play / arcade mode, and there is so much good content outside of these events to be enjoyed. Obviously other people have not had the same experience, but between missions, licence tests, circuit experiences, daily Sport races, online time trials, online lobbies, offline time trials, offline tuning / testing of cars, I still haven't done everything that I want to, even after over 1000 hours of play. Of course this is just my opinion but the fundamentals of GT7 are so good that I keep coming back for more: the quality and variety of tracks, the quality and variety of cars, the excellent physics engine, the glorious graphics, the brilliant VR implementation. I can't get enough, and for me this completely eclipses any problems with the singleplayer content.

The other reason I don't really care about the WC events is that I am much more disappointed in the Custom Races. Given the great foundations that GT7 has, this mode could be sensational, but the broken AI and rubberbanding completely ruin it for me.
 
Guys, I can't wait for Saturday. I feel it is gonna be a neat update!
If it has something that I've been hearing a smidge about, then I'd actually expect the reception to be mixed. But I suppose that's inevitable regardless lol.
There will always be people that wish we had X thing instead of Y thing.
If correct though, that one something I think that I know will appeal to more of a specific group of players.
Either way even I won't know for certain until the reveal itself.

I'm not going to share what the something is of course. This post is more for trying to minimise the chance of people hyping themselves up to the point that they'll be disappointed no matter what happens.

Everyone keep your expectations in check, but equally look forward to Saturday! :D
 
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Decided to try my first ever Sport mode race today with Daily Race C, it caught my attention because of the 600% Credit bonus and I thought the car selection was cool(I don't really like driving Gr.3 cars)

I was pretty surprised to see that I got the pole position with only 3 tries :lol:
The race was good but I didn't really have any fights because someone divebombed the first corner and took out 5 cars, so my gap increased by nearly +10secs.

Anyways, I now have a 100% Race Victory Rate.

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Another fix would be an event editor: you create the event, set the rules, classes, cars that can be used, points system and schedule. You can name your event, set a bunch of liveries from your gallery or the community as an option and then share it: Poliphony could create a curated area with a constant rotation of community events and wouldn't need to bother with, you know, feeding their own damn game since the community would do this with much more creativity and scope.

But this is way too much common sense, so no.
Top
 
There is a saying in our country: "If you say a word 40 times, it will happen". That's what I say for Saturday :)

B-Spec - B-Spec - B-Spec - B-Spec
B-Spec - B-Spec - B-Spec - B-Spec
B-Spec - B-Spec - B-Spec - B-Spec
B-Spec - B-Spec - B-Spec - B-Spec
B-Spec - B-Spec - B-Spec - B-Spec
B-Spec - B-Spec - B-Spec - B-Spec
B-Spec - B-Spec - B-Spec - B-Spec
B-Spec - B-Spec - B-Spec - B-Spec
B-Spec - B-Spec - B-Spec - B-Spec
B-Spec - B-Spec - B-Spec - B-Spec
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Here's every mainline GT's count by my count. Only races and championships are counted, so things like missions and GT5/6s special events are not.

GT1 59
GT2 228
GT3 337
GT4 511
GT5 141 (A-spec only, it doesn't get double credit for B-spec being separate versions of the same races)
GT6 201
GTS 301
GT7 236

So from a length perspective GT4 is the longest by far, then GT3 and Sport, then 2/6/7 all kind of together, then GT5 needing B-spec to pad itself, then GT1 last which is forgiveable as game 1 in the series.
Judging a game's quality based on the number of events is stupid.
That would be stupid, but quality is not the point of this comparison, this factoid only tells us that GT7 is short. My major gripe since finishing the 39 Café books in the first week was that it felt like a very good beginning of a campaign;
Sunday Cup -> B License -> A License -> First 5-race championship -> |Unexpected End| -> Grind.
It's structured like the first 40% of a great GT game, and if - as you progressed through IB, IA and S events - the prizes and difficulty continued to grow up to and beyond the level of the high-Credit anomalies and the 🌶️spicy races, there'd be a satisfactory experience for most players, especially if it ultimately meant less time grinding the same race.
I think it's pretty clear that the majority of events in World Circuits are not very interesting. There are a few exceptions, but aside from these, I have mostly ignored WC events since completing the menu books, apart from doing the weekly challenges, which are hit and miss, largely as a result of chase the rabbit. I think the criticism of these events is mostly fair.

But what I find interesting / fascinating is how much people care about this. For me, these World Circuit events are more like a quick play / arcade mode, and there is so much good content outside of these events to be enjoyed. Obviously other people have not had the same experience, but between missions, licence tests, circuit experiences, daily Sport races, online time trials, online lobbies, offline time trials, offline tuning / testing of cars, I still haven't done everything that I want to, even after over 1000 hours of play. Of course this is just my opinion but the fundamentals of GT7 are so good that I keep coming back for more: the quality and variety of tracks, the quality and variety of cars, the excellent physics engine, the glorious graphics, the brilliant VR implementation. I can't get enough, and for me this completely eclipses any problems with the singleplayer content.

The other reason I don't really care about the WC events is that I am much more disappointed in the Custom Races. Given the great foundations that GT7 has, this mode could be sensational, but the broken AI and rubberbanding completely ruin it for me.
These are also important points: that the WC events are only a small part of what the game has to offer, that the physics make car testing a lot of fun (hear, hear!), and that Custom Race mode could be the best part of the game if it had more than three difficulty settings.

The number of curated races and championships in GT7 shouldn't be a big problem, but it is, completely because of how the game is structured. Every player has to play the mandatory events first, so it's vital that the early-game leaves a good impression. Once players have finished Book 39, the only way to afford more cars is to beat the Missions, Circuit Experiences, Online TTs and... then you're back to playing a lot more of the same part of World Circuits; an unfortunate side-effect of game structure and car pricing.

If Custom Races could replace the lack of high-level events, that would be great, but they cannot.
If Sport Mode daily races paid substantially more than the Jimny Cup, that would be great, but they do not.
If saving up for three McLaren F1 variants didn't involve over 36 hours of racing the top four richest events, or over 90 hours of Custom Races, or 300 to 700 hours of multiplayer, or silver/gold in every Online TT for 60/30 consecutive weeks, that would be great, but it does in this game, and I never want this terrible and easily avoidable situation to happen to GT again.

If GT7 had ~500 events at launch (including Menu Books leading to the S Licence, the traditional endurance races and a formula championship etc.) there's no guarantee that it would be a perfect game, but it would be more enjoyable, for more people, for a longer time and the post-game would be much less repetitious. Updates would be adding in welcomed extra events for variety, not the foundational parts missing at launch like Kei and Gr.1 races.
 
I too love B-Spec. For years I've thought of how cool it would be to have B-Spec also integrated into online, so you can pit your team against other people like a manager fantasy league within the main game.

Not to mention being able to driver swap between yourself & your B-Spec drivers in an online endurance race.

Would also be cool to see driver swaps between 2 actual players too, and the ability to use A.I. drivers to fill empty grid spaces in lobbies like Forza Motorsport 4 (other Forza games may have also done this).

All of this done with GT Sophy of course. Wouldn't work as good with the regular A.I.

I can dream...
 
If it has something that I've been hearing a smidge about, then I'd actually expect the reception to be mixed. But I suppose that's inevitable regardless lol.
There will always be people that wish we had X thing instead of Y thing.
If correct though, that one something I think that I know will appeal to more of a specific group of players.
Either way even I won't know for certain until the reveal itself.

I'm not going to share what the something is of course. This post is more for trying to minimise the chance of people hyping themselves up to the point that they'll be disappointed no matter what happens.

Everyone keep your expectations in check, but equally look forward to Saturday! :D
So what you’re saying is no new track? 😜🤣
 
It isn't when you consider how quickly they lapse. Bear in mind, this is the game which issued the statement "Gran Turismo is back."

That - whether you think it foolish or not - laid the expectation of a more traditional single player experience in terms of events. Couple that with footage of Trial Mountain, a UI which had a similar layout to GT4, and an expectation of a lot of events was set in motion.

At no point did it appear a game focused on a mode barely anyone plays (Sport mode) . Players have therefore been disappointed. This is before you consider the terrible in game economy. Manipulative FOMO car rotation. The scummy flexible pricing of certain cars. The drip feeding of events. The drip feeding of cars. The broken penalty system. The broken lobby system. The antiquated chase the rabbit race format. The unrealistic rolling starts. The absence of qualifying in 99% of races... I could go on
Simon Cowell Wow GIF by America's Got Talent
Morgan Freeman Applause GIF by The Academy Awards
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Well Done Applause GIF by MOODMAN
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Clap Applause GIF
 
Another fix would be an event editor: you create the event, set the rules, classes, cars that can be used, points system and schedule. You can name your event, set a bunch of liveries from your gallery or the community as an option and then share it: Poliphony could create a curated area with a constant rotation of community events and wouldn't need to bother with, you know, feeding their own damn game since the community would do this with much more creativity and scope.

But this is way too much common sense, so no.

This would be the best thing added to GT!
This + full sophy support ;)
 
The amount of events or cars does not direclty translate into the engagement you will pull out and create fun with, and then add the theme to the game to see how these 3 things combine to create memorable moments.
I think you misunderstood my comment, I was talking about the actual racing in the events was more engaging in that context, not the event count being why it's more engaging.
 
My frustration with the "GT4 Was The Best Ever" trend that's going through this thread basically boils down to this:

It's fine to praise Gran Turismo 4 for what it did, but don't dare take into account what it didn't do.


For those who champion Gran Turismo 4, I have the following question:

Would you support that game if it were released - as is - today?


Or - and this is my guess - would you complain about the:
  • Graphics
  • Physics
  • Lack of livery editor
  • Lack of Online lobbies
  • Lack of updates
  • No custom races
  • No 2K/4K/VR/HDR/60FPS
  • Etc. . .

Gran Turismo 4 didn't have any way to add content, have true online competition, online multiplayer, livery editor and the like. PD could only put everything they had on the one disk you purchased and that was it. It was great for what it was, but Gran Turismo 7 is far better even if you only look at what a single player can do and experience.

  • Number of races? Custom Races would like a word.
  • Ways to drive cars? Missions & Licenses would like a word as well.
  • Looking at your cars and taking pictures? Photomode is vastly improved and expanded.
By no means is the above a complete list.

The idea of the game being "over" once you finish menu book 39(?) makes the following statement: Rather than exploring all the single player options Gran Turismo 7 has to offer, you choose to complain that it does not pull you by the hand to explore other portions of the game.


It's a preference; there's nothing wrong with that.


However, to praise a game and ignore its shortcomings - no matter if it's Gran Turismo 7, Sport, 3 (A-spec) or whatever iteration it is - is a textbook case of nostalgia glasses in action.

Ok, I'll go back into my shed.

#GrumpyOldPlayer
 
My frustration with the "GT4 Was The Best Ever" trend that's going through this thread basically boils down to this:

It's fine to praise Gran Turismo 4 for what it did, but don't dare take into account what it didn't do.


For those who champion Gran Turismo 4, I have the following question:

Would you support that game if it were released - as is - today?


Or - and this is my guess - would you complain about the:
  • Graphics
  • Physics
  • Lack of livery editor
  • Lack of Online lobbies
  • Lack of updates
  • No custom races
  • No 2K/4K/VR/HDR/60FPS
  • Etc. . .

Gran Turismo 4 didn't have any way to add content, have true online competition, online multiplayer, livery editor and the like. PD could only put everything they had on the one disk you purchased and that was it. It was great for what it was, but Gran Turismo 7 is far better even if you only look at what a single player can do and experience.

  • Number of races? Custom Races would like a word.
  • Ways to drive cars? Missions & Licenses would like a word as well.
  • Looking at your cars and taking pictures? Photomode is vastly improved and expanded.
By no means is the above a complete list.

The idea of the game being "over" once you finish menu book 39(?) makes the following statement: Rather than exploring all the single player options Gran Turismo 7 has to offer, you choose to complain that it does not pull you by the hand to explore other portions of the game.


It's a preference; there's nothing wrong with that.


However, to praise a game and ignore its shortcomings - no matter if it's Gran Turismo 7, Sport, 3 (A-spec) or whatever iteration it is - is a textbook case of nostalgia glasses in action.

Ok, I'll go back into my shed.

#GrumpyOldPlayer
I don't think anyone is disagreeing that GT4 did some things worse than GT7? That is expected, it's a 20 year older game.

People talk about its better qualities because a 2022 game shouldn't have regressions over something that came out almost 20 years before. This is all a non point.
 
Gran Turismo 4 didn't have any way to add content, have true online competition, online multiplayer, livery editor and the like.
Technically pd could have added updates and online features; The ps2 allows updates to be installed on the memory card (that's how freemcboot works) and sony sold the hard drive + network adapter.
 
My frustration with the "GT4 Was The Best Ever" trend that's going through this thread basically boils down to this:

It's fine to praise Gran Turismo 4 for what it did, but don't dare take into account what it didn't do.


For those who champion Gran Turismo 4, I have the following question:

Would you support that game if it were released - as is - today?


Or - and this is my guess - would you complain about the:
  • Graphics
  • Physics
  • Lack of livery editor
  • Lack of Online lobbies
  • Lack of updates
  • No custom races
  • No 2K/4K/VR/HDR/60FPS
  • Etc. .
No, I take into account the shortcomings of past GT titles, I would play Gran Turismo 4 as is today with a smile on my face as I still find the core game fun. If I have to trade those things to have a fun single-player experience again, so be it.
Gran Turismo 4 didn't have any way to add content, have true online competition, online multiplayer, livery editor and the like. PD could only put everything they had on the one disk you purchased and that was it. It was great for what it was, but Gran Turismo 7 is far better even if you only look at what a single player can do and experience.

  • Number of races? Custom Races would like a word.
  • Ways to drive cars? Missions & Licenses would like a word as well.
Don't make me tap the sign:
In regards to custom race mode, while making my own races can be fun. They don't make up for GT7's extremely short GT Cafe mode for me for a few reasons.

1. They don't pay well enough even after Spec 2.0, I would say 2-4x the current value would be enough.
2. You can only pick only cars in your garage, it should be like in Forza Horizon 5 where you can pick any car as an opponent without owning it.
3. No ability to change color/livery to opponent cars unless once again; you buy a bunch of clones and give them each a different livery. The fact you have to do that is insane when there's racing games before GT7 that allowed you that exact freedom, this is just a needless restriction.
4. The A.I. is too slow.

With that said, it shouldn't be a fill in for a career mode anyway, but rather a bonus mode. It's become a pet peeve of mine whenever companies think that because they made this mode, that means it's automatically okay to short-shaft somewhere else.
Seriously, this "just use custom race" excuse needs to stop.
Ways to drive cars? Missions & Licenses would like a word as well.
GT4 had those things too and if I'm honest, more licenses was one thing GT7 didn't need nor did I want it. I didn't even like GT4's slog of 16 tests per license.
Looking at your cars and taking pictures? Photomode is vastly improved and expanded.
It is, but pictures weren't my drive to wanting to play a racing game.
The idea of the game being "over" once you finish menu book 39(?) makes the following statement: Rather than exploring all the single player options Gran Turismo 7 has to offer, you choose to complain that it does not pull you by the hand to explore other portions of the game.

It's a preference; there's nothing wrong with that.

However, to praise a game and ignore its shortcomings - no matter if it's Gran Turismo 7, Sport, 3 (A-spec) or whatever iteration it is - is a textbook case of nostalgia glasses in action.

Ok, I'll go back into my shed.
and I'm going to end off with this. Most people making arguments against GT7 are aware of the shortcomings of past games. GT2 (my favorite game in the series) is nowhere near as realistic to drive nor as pretty as GT7 and has less features, but I still go back and play that several times more than GT7 because the core single player experience is more fun to play and re-play.

and as Nebuc72 said, the big problem is that with the improvements GT7 made; it shouldn't have the regressions in things that the older games had. Having online racing automatically doesn't mean they can slack on the single player experience, having custom race mode does NOT mean that either as I pointed out above.
 
No, I take into account the shortcomings of past GT titles, I would play Gran Turismo 4 as is today with a smile on my face as I still find the core game fun. If I have to trade those things to have a fun single-player experience again, so be it.

Don't make me tap the sign:

Seriously, this "just use custom race" excuse needs to stop.

GT4 had those things too and if I'm honest, more licenses was one thing GT7 didn't need nor did I want it. I didn't even like GT4's slog of 16 tests per license.

It is, but pictures weren't my drive to wanting to play a racing game.

and I'm going to end off with this. Most people making arguments against GT7 are aware of the shortcomings of past games. GT2 (my favorite game in the series) is nowhere near as realistic to drive nor as pretty as GT7 and has less features, but I still go back and play that several times more than GT7 because the core single player experience is more fun to play and re-play.

and as Nebuc72 said, the big problem is that with the improvements GT7 made; it shouldn't have the regressions in things that the older games had. Having online racing automatically doesn't mean they can slack on the single player experience, having custom race mode does NOT mean that either as I pointed out above.
Yes, you have a point. However, we should try to understand PD because the amount of work to pull up all of these graphics, physics, sounds, cars, tracks and features was really huge. Keep in mind that every mere car or track takes 6-9 months to be made. And we are talking about a single car... Let alone all the rest.. No wonder they couldn't finish finish the game in time, plus (other than that) they needed time to optimize the game to work on the aging PS4.

Second of all, GT4 had many more events simply because the singleplayer mode was the solely focus of the game and cars, tracks and stuff have been taken much less time to make so they could have flesh out stuff much faster than what they are doing now.


Third of all, GT7 is still maturing and receiving constant free updates (almost) every month, which is nothing to be complained about and it is getting larger and larger every month and imagine where we could end up with another 1-3 big updates (starting from the one coming this month). It will never exceed the longevity of GT4, but it may match GT Sport and GT3 and come fairly close to GT5 which is not bad at all considering the overall quality/realism that the game bears. GT7 is objectively the better game, altough GT4 is much older ofc so the comparison would not be really fair.
 
It might even be argued that the only game GT7 can be fairly compared to in terms of its content, is GT Sport, since Sport was when Polyphony decided to start from scratch again content-wise.

Similar logic is why we don't compare GT6's mammoth car list with Sport & 7, because since Polyphony started from scratch rather than having a back catalogue that was ported over from the previous game, the car count isn't a fair comparison.

Ever since Sport, the games have been in a rebuilding phase to get back to roughly where the older games were, but with overall higher quality. We've seen this through the gradual return of things such as cars, tracks, tuning & customisation, the Used Car Dealership, car maintenance, more lobby settings etc.

Gonna use the funny Forza phrase:
"Built from the ground up"

So comparing GT7's campaign with GT Sport's is the most fair we can get. Evidently with GT7 Polyphony wanted to try something a bit more experimental than the GT League was in GT Sport. Some might prefer it. Others might prefer a return to convention. And still others might feel there's a good way to mix both.
 
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Seriously, this "just use custom race" excuse needs to stop.
Agreed. The custom race option has its own set of flaws. If I am mistaken on any of this, as I don't do these very often, I'll eat crow.

-You can't tell the AI to use a specific set of tires. They run their OE tires and there's nothing you can do about it. Even if you use a garage Gr3 car which you put RS tires on, they still come into custom races with RH tires.

-You can't set up a race with say five McLaren F1s and three Porsche GT1s unless you own five McLaren F1s and three Porsche GT1s. Something that is ridiculous for most players if you want to use many cars as we're talking about 130,000,000 credits for this one race example.

-You can't mandate pit stops for the AI cars for new - or different - tires.

-You can't mandate the AI take on fuel. Sure, you can put a fuel multiplier on but I've seen the AI do insane amount of laps on a tank. Ie, one of the hour long mission races I had to pit three times for fuel and one of the AI didn't pit at all.

-AI still cheats and rubberbands like mad even if boost is set to off. Let me explain: as an example, Daytona RC for Manu I will set up custom races to mimic WS events to get an idea of tire wear and the like (one make, one car so the only AI competitor is the same car I have). After two laps I am 5+ seconds ahead of the AI car. Even on expert difficulty the AI is slow. After 5-6 laps my purple lap will get beat by something insane like TWO SECONDS. Next lap I will be purple through S1 by .500" then come the straights be red by .500" conveying I am faster through the turns but when we hit the oval the AI is getting much too high of a top end. And it goes both ways - if you're behind the car in front starts driving so slow. Super lame.

There are probably more I am not thinking of at the moment.
 
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