Gran Turismo 7: Latest news and discussion thread

[hardvibes]

You’re reading too much into this. Like way too much.

Considering the history of GT in the recent years

• 2013: the decision of having GT6 on PS3 while PS4 was being launched -> till today, still without a full game (GTSport isn't full and nobody will ever make me change my mind)
• the delay of GT7 and concerns about this crossplatform thing

in my opinion I'm not.

All I see are bad decisions being made. I don't expect the blowout of info to be overwhelming. I don't feel Sony and PD are working hard enough to bring a Gran Turismo worth of its name. Experience teaches something. I'm still waiting for a good Gran Turismo since 4. I remember the hype around GT5 and how it turned out to be mediocre. GT6 was a little bit better, but still left a bittersweet taste.

Opinions are opinions.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

till today, still without a full game (GTSport isn't full and nobody will ever make me change my mind)

Tell me, how do you define a full game? Because to me, GT Sport was a full game. It just wasn't the experience everyone wanted, which is fine because it wasn't the experience I fully wanted either.

 

[hardvibes]

Tell me, how do you define a full game? Because to me, GT Sport was a full game. It just wasn't the experience everyone wanted, which is fine because it wasn't the experience I fully wanted either.

A full game would have a decent amount of cars for each brand. Lots are missing. And of course I'm seeing what other franchises are bringing. GT isn't the only racing game out there. Other franchises are bring cars that PEOPLE asked for. Historical, well performing, new and exciting cars.
A full game would have body customization and tuning parts, not some points that you would use to increase the performance of a car, especially since we're talking about a feature that should simulate real life tunig. In GTS everything is based on BoP and tuninig is all about moving some slides and no choice of brakes, mufflers, air filters, mcu etc etc.
A full game would have a huge variety of events online to choose from. GTS only has 3 per week and the tracks/cars combos are always almost repetitive. Not all tracks are being used.
A full game would have a well planned multiplayer mode. I'm sorry but I feel that everything outside of Daily Races is just unpractical, a slow to navigate mess. People enter lobbies -> nothing happens -> people leave lobbies.
A full game wouldn't have a broken economy system that don't even allow you to reach 20 mil credits. (I do have a life. I'm at 15 mil after saving for almost 5 months)
A full game wouldn't have a broken penalty system either.
A full game would have a decent career mode. Not just some unrelated events thrown here and there just because they have to give us something.
A full game would have a good variety of rally stages and a thought system that really makes you want to use it (I can't remember the last time I touched that rally mode. Doesn't feel real, especially with all the invisible/unbreakable (laughable, I must add) walls.
A full game wouldn't award you countless duplicates that stay in your garage with no purpose. Ca't even resell them.

Just to give a few examples. I'm tired tonight. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of other things to talk about on why GTS isn't full.

 

[happycorey]

Considering the history of GT in the recent years

• 2013: the decision of having GT6 on PS3 while PS4 was being launched -> till today, still without a full game (GTSport isn't full and nobody will ever make me change my mind)
• the delay of GT7 and concerns about this crossplatform thing

in my opinion I'm not.

All I see are bad decisions being made. I don't expect the blowout of info to be overwhelming. I don't feel Sony and PD are working hard enough to bring a Gran Turismo worth of its name. Experience teaches something. I'm still waiting for a good Gran Turismo since 4. I remember the hype around GT5 and how it turned out to be mediocre. GT6 was a little bit better, but still left a bittersweet taste.

Opinions are opinions.

I totally understand your point of view, and feel largely the same. My opinion is that GTS paved the way for all of GT7 architecture, since it wasn't meant to be a full game and only a filler. But the marketability extended the game thus far, to the point of PS5 nearing release. Since the majority of the game was already rendered in a much higher resolution (for the future), it's only getting packed with more and more features as time progresses. PS5 availability and the nature of the FIA events, that they would need maximum participation for, it only makes sense to delay. Overall I think that GT7 will be worthy of praise, as long as it's only on PS5.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

A full game would have a decent amount of cars for each brand. Lots are missing. And of course I'm seeing what other franchises are bringing. GT isn't the only racing game out there. Other franchises are bring cars that PEOPLE asked for. Historical, well performing, new and exciting cars.
A full game would have tuning parts, not some points that you would use to increase the performance of a car, especially since we're talking about a feature that should simulate real life tunig. In GTS everything is based on BoP and tuninig is all about moving some slides and no choice of brakes, mufflers, air filters, mcu etc etc.
A full game would have a huge variety of events online to choose from. GTS only has 3 per week and the tracks/cars combos are always almost repetitive. Not all tracks are being used.
A full game would have a well planned multiplayer mode. I'm sorry but I feel that everything outside of Daily Races is just unpractical, a slow to navigate mess. People enter lobbies -> nothing happens -> people leave lobbies.
A full game wouldn't have a broken economy system that don't even allow you to reach 20 mil credits. (I do have a life. I'm at 15 mil after saving for almost 5 months)
A full game wouldn't have a broken penalty system either.
A full game would have a decent career mode. Not some events thrown here and there just because they have to give us something.

Ah, I see your view point now. It's one I have seen brought up by other people either. With that said, I disagree with it completely. Because your points have nothing to do with what makes a full game. A full game isn't determined by things you've mentioned except for perhaps the bugginess with things like the penalty system.

What you're arguing is a game that failed to expectations you had in your head and turned out to be a game you didn't want. Talking about whether a game is good or not isn't the same argument as a full game.

 

[hardvibes]

Ah, I see your view point now. It's one I have seen brought up by other people either. With that said, I disagree with it completely. Because your points have nothing to do with what makes a full game. A full game isn't determined by things you've mentioned except for perhaps the bugginess with things like the penalty system.

What you're arguing is a game that failed to expectations you had in your head and turned out to be a game you didn't want. Talking about whether a game is good or not isn't the same argument as a full game.

Still your opinion and you have the right to disagree of course. That is all stuff that a full game must have imo, especially considering the past of gt and the present of the competition.

 

[Famine]

A full game wouldn't have a broken penalty system either.

I'm still waiting for a good Gran Turismo since 4

Anyone want to be the bearer of bad news?

 

[hardvibes]

Anyone want to be the bearer of bad news?

Which is? GT7 still having an awful penaly system? I have no doubt about it.

 

[Famine]

Which is?

That you've excluded your last "good Gran Turismo" from being a "full game".

 

[Lee x sensai]

Why people alway discuss thing that unconfirmed source and over speculate the information is not to relate to the games. When we could have focus on the new leak about the wheel and the beta codes instead. It would lead more into good discussion and less bickering about that speculation out of thin air.

 

[GlamFM]

Considering the history of GT in the recent years

• 2013: the decision of having GT6 on PS3 while PS4 was being launched -> till today, still without a full game (GTSport isn't full and nobody will ever make me change my mind)
• the delay of GT7 and concerns about this crossplatform thing

in my opinion I'm not.

All I see are bad decisions being made. I don't expect the blowout of info to be overwhelming. I don't feel Sony and PD are working hard enough to bring a Gran Turismo worth of its name. Experience teaches something. I'm still waiting for a good Gran Turismo since 4. I remember the hype around GT5 and how it turned out to be mediocre. GT6 was a little bit better, but still left a bittersweet taste.

Opinions are opinions.

This has nothing to do with what you said before. The CEO of Sony mentioning two games and not many others is not a “form of stupidity and disrespect”.

 

[JTB10000]

Why people alway discuss thing that unconfirmed source and over speculate the information is not to relate to the games. When we could have focus on the new leak about the wheel and the beta codes instead. It would lead more into good discussion and less bickering about that speculation out of thin air.

There isn't much to talk about regarding those two. Fanatec: probably a mostly superficial sponsorship like usage at events and on in-game billboards, likely won't mean too much for the physics besides small improvements over the wheel and peripherals' predecessors. Beta codes: beta's existence was leaked via codes that didn't work and might be coming soon.

That's all there is to those things really lol

 

[hardvibes]

This has nothing to do with what you said before. The CEO of Sony mentioning two games and not many others is not a “form of stupidity and disrespect”.

In my opinion, it does. It's a piece of the puzzle. I feel they're slowly and quietly giving GT less and less importance over the years as a playstation exclusive.
Again, GT was one of the main selling points of a Playstation system.

 

[watto79]

I feel they're slowly and quietly giving GT less and less importance over the years as a playstation exclusive.

Why do you think they would be doing that? What would their motivation be?

Sony are focussing on their 2021 releases. Once they're released they'll move on to their 2022 releases, of which GT7 is (hopefully) one of. I don't understand how that's stupid or disrespectful. It's a sensible business decision.

 

[Samus]

Why people alway discuss thing that unconfirmed source and over speculate the information is not to relate to the games. When we could have focus on the new leak about the wheel and the beta codes instead. It would lead more into good discussion and less bickering about that speculation out of thin air.

There is no beta, I'm pretty sure. It was just web developers using dummy content to test.

 

[hardvibes]

Why do you think they would be doing that? What would their motivation be?

Gran Turismo is selling less. PS4 was a very successful system, yet GTS sold 8 million copies. Comparing it with its predecessors, there’s a negative trend, especially considering GTS was the only GT title of last gen (I still call it current gen). The more evident negative trend was the GT6 units sold. They didn't just lower, they were cut in half because of players unhappy with GT5 and because others already moved to PS4, waiting for something that eventually didn't come soon enough.
There’s more indirect and direct competition, but what has to be mentioned also is that GTS content is "thin" and its game scores are not extraordinary.

Sony are focussing on their 2021 releases. Once they're released they'll move on to their 2022 releases, of which GT7 is (hopefully) one of. I don't understand how that's stupid or disrespectful. It's a sensible business decision.

It is disrespectful towards a loyal fanbase that has been given crumbles for the past few years and is still, relatively, being ignored.
Yes, I get it, there isn't much to show right now. Well noted. But silence and endless wait still drive fans crazy.
Sony are giving more attention to other titles because times have changed and because the money goes somewhere else. But it’s still disrespectful since there are a lot of “hungry” fans out there for a racing game and not all are happy with what Sony gave and is giving right now.


If future PR words and valorization of GT7, sales and content will prove me wrong, I will admit I was wrong.

 

[queleuleu]

And what PS5 games are Sony going to be promoting next? Yup, HFW and GOW.

It's all about the product cycles. They'll start talking about GT7 non-stop after those, because they'll want people's attention on GT7.

I can't believe that GT7 will be release after GOW. It's not just a small delay about a few months, expectations will be crazy high for a late 2022 game. And I know Forza Horizon is a 30 fps game, but people will expect graphics at least on par with FH5.

 

[Samus]

I can't believe that GT7 will be release after GOW. It's not just a small delay about a few months, expectations will be crazy high for a late 2022 game. And I know Forza Horizon is a 30 fps game, but people will expect graphics at least on par with FH5.

GOW will probably take that Spring/early summer window whilst GT7 takes the Sep-Nov window.

 

[Famine]

There’s more indirect and direct competition, but what has to be mentioned also is that GTS content is "thin" and its game scores are not extraordinary.

View attachment 1068168

Isn't it interesting though that the game with the least content on each platform sells the most?

GT2 had triple the car and track count of GT1, and sold less. Then GT3 slashed the car content (tracks not so much) and sold the most in the entire series, before GT4 again more than doubled the car count and... sold less. GT5 came up with a GT1-level number of new Premium cars alongside most of GT4's content, and only just outsold its predecessor, before GT6 doubled the Premium car count and... sold less.

It seems that "thin" content - or at least thinner - is a recipe for sales. Of course the metric has now changed from "sales" to "players", and we can't really say how GTS is selling, but the sales estimates are close to 75% more than those of GT6, while not troubling GT1/3/5's numbers. It certainly generates an interesting graph or two:

It's not an enormous data set, and three of the seven items are rather further from the trendline than you might like, but there is a trend. GTS is probably the biggest outlier, simply because it's a radically different game, but if GT7 is a return to the original style and has about 500 cars, you'd expect about 12m sales.

That you've excluded your last "good Gran Turismo" from being a "full game".

And no response to this yet. Also interesting.

 

[hardvibes]

And no response to this yet. Also interesting.

No, because I don't understand what you mean. The last good GT for me (4) was full in my book. And full for its own era (PS2).

For the rest I'm not interested in a debate. It seems you're only talking about cars while in reality it's about all kinds of features, quality of content and how everything works when it's put together. Anyway you have your point of view, I have mine. I hope we can agree to disagree.
Also I'm not interested in a debate since in your comments you tease and use sarcasm, and in general I tend to not reply to that.

 

[Famine]

No, because I don't understand what you mean. The last good GT for me (4) was full in my book. And full for its own era (PS2).

GT4 had a penalty system. It was broken. You stated that a "full game" does not have a "broken penalty system":

A full game wouldn't have a broken penalty system either.

therefore GT4 is not a "full game" by your own stated standards.

Of course there's a number of reasons why you might state two completely opposed things - in this particular case, I'm willing to bet it's either because you forgot, or because it's a bit of the game you don't care about - but any of the reasons should surely make you realise that your standards aren't in any way objective...

Also I'm not interested in a debate since in your comments you use sarcasm, and in general I tend to not reply to sarcasm.

That sounds like a very interesting way of completely avoiding any rational criticism of your own point of view, which would beg the question of why you would present it for criticism.

 

[hardvibes]

GT4 had a penalty system. It was broken. You stated that a "full game" does not have a "broken penalty system":

therefore GT4 is not a "full game" by your own stated standards.

It was a start. We all know when GT4 was released. PD had plenty of time to figure it out. Plenty.
Like I said in the reply about, it was full for its own era. Before PS3, PS4 and now PS5. One might think that things finally get fixed after 17 years.

Of course there's a number of reasons why you might state two completely opposed things - in this particular case, I'm willing to bet it's either because you forgot, or because it's a bit of the game you don't care about - but any of the reasons should surely make you realise that your standards aren't in any way objective...

My standards are my standards. I think the way I think and I can't change it simply because someone says I have to. I like what I like, I don't like what I don't like. Just like I have my own definition of full, you can have another definition of full.

That sounds like a very interesting way of completely avoiding any rational criticism of your own point of view, which would beg the question of why you would present it for criticism.

Why exactly do you feel the need to criticize my own personal point of view? I'm confused. Am I trying to force someone into thinking the way I'm thinking? No. I'm asked something and I reply.
We're not talking about facts we're talking about personal opinions.

That being said, I am not interested in following this conversation so feel free to think whatever you want about my way of thinking. I have other things to do Famine. I can't waste my energies for this, seriously.

When we'll talk about GT facts (not personal opinions) or other things, then we can have a debate. Without teasing or anything else to make things personal.

 

[Famine]

It was a start. We all know when GT4 was released. PD had plenty of time to figure it out. Plenty.

Okay, but that's not relevant. It had a broken penalty system, which you say means it's not a full game. But you also say it's a full game.

My standards are my standards. I think the way I think and I am noit going to change it simply because someone says I have to. I like what I like, I don't like what I don't like. Just like I have my own definition of full, just like you can have another definition.

Okay, but none of that is relevant.

GT4 had a broken penalty system, which you say means it's not a full game. But you also say it's a full game. You are contradicting your own standards. It's entirely up to you if you want to present yourself in this way.

Why exactly do you feel the need to criticize my own personal point of view? I'm confused.

This is an internet forum, where we discuss opinions. If you don't want your opinions discussed - and it appears you do not, given the number of excuses you're giving for not discussing them - you should think about not presenting your opinions.

However, the point is that you are attacking your own opinions!

GT4 has a broken penalty system. You stated that a game with a broken penalty system is not a full game. You stated GT4 is a full game. One of your statements is wrong, because they contradict each other. These are your words, not anyone else's:

The last good GT for me (4) was full in my book. And full for its own era (PS2).

A full game wouldn't have a broken penalty system either.

 

[hardvibes]

Okay, but that's not relevant. It had a broken penalty system, which you say means it's not a full game. But you also say it's a full game.

Okay, but none of that is relevant.

GT4 had a broken penalty system, which you say means it's not a full game. But you also say it's a full game. You are contradicting your own standards. It's entirely up to you if you want to present yourself in this way.

This is an internet forum, where we discuss opinions. If you don't want your opinions discussed - and it appears you do not, given the number of excuses you're giving for not discussing them - you should think about not presenting your opinions.

However, the point is that you are attacking your own opinions!

GT4 has a broken penalty system. You stated that a game with a broken penalty system is not a full game. You stated GT4 is a full game. One of your statements is wrong, because they contradict each other.

Your argument now revolves around what I said about GT4, and a full game, and the penalty system thingy. You repeated it like 3 or 4 times. It's like when people reply pointing out a grammar error.
No, I'm not attacking my own opinions. I wrote it: for me it was full for its own era (ps2) and one might think that in 17 years things finally get fixed. We're in 2021 and it's still not fixed. Just an example: Turn10 tried for the first time with Forza 7 a couple of years ago (I don't know, maybe less) and asked players to test things for their penalty system. We then received improved penalties, and then another beta program, and so on...

I hope it's clear.


Yes we do discuss opinions on this forum, but one thing is discussing opinions about facts (PS4 specs for example), another thing is discussing opinions of other people's opinions. No, I never knew that MY opinions, or other people's opinions needed to be a subject of discussion, and mockery and teasing and so on. I will keep presenting my opinions, as long as I'm not disrespecting other users.

Fell free to reply and not agreeing with my logic, I'm seriously not interested in justifying myself anymore. Also to respect the readers of this thread.

 

[Famine]

Your argument now revolves around what I said about GT4, and a full game, and the penalty system thingy. You repeated it like 3 or 4 times.

Yeah, not really no. That's the literal point, and you've dodged it with a whole bunch of unrelated things about how things were at the time, and how I'm sarcastic, and how it's just an opinion and you don't want to discuss it (after four further posts discussing it).

If you'd actually address it, it wouldn't have needed repeating at all, but you don't seem to want to acknowledge that you are contradicting yourself.

No, I'm not attacking my own opinions. I wrote it: for me it was full for its own era (ps2) and one might think that in 17 years things finally get fixed. We're in 2021 and it's still not fixed. Turn10 tried for the first time with Forza 7 a couple of years ago (I don't know, maybe less) and asked players to test things for their penalty system. We then received improved penalties, and then another beta program, and so on...
I hope it's clear.

That's all smashing I'm sure, but not relevant.

I'm not sure why this isn't getting across. Your own two statements straight up contradict each other. This statement:

The last good GT for me (4) was full in my book. And full for its own era (PS2).

is directly contradicted by this statement:

A full game wouldn't have a broken penalty system either.

and vice versa. Both of those sets of words say that the other set of words is wrong, and you wrote both of them. You are attacking your own opinion.

They cannot both be true. I don't know why you're claiming you don't have the energy, or you're too busy, or don't want to discuss it, then making post after post after post while still completely avoiding what I've presented to you: your own words contradicting themselves. Can you not see this?

I'm not relevant. Forza isn't relevant. PlayStation 2 isn't relevant. 2021 isn't relevant. What's relevant is you saying GT4 is "a full game" for you, despite it having a "broken penalty system" that you state makes a game not "a full game" for you. You're literally disagreeing with yourself.


Nobody's telling you to have a different opinion, just that you've presented two statements that cannot agree. You are by all means welcome to continue presenting totally conflicting arguments and railing against people when this is pointed out to you, if that's how you want to come across; that's your call. However, when someone points out to you that you're arguing with yourself, it's probably worth addressing. I mean, you don't even need to change your opinions here - it's easily possible for you to reword one of them so that they no longer disagree (especially as it looks like you just clean forgot about GT4's broken penalty system).

"Oh yes, I see how those two statements seem contradictory, allow me to rephrase..."

 

[Samus]

Unless we're talking about the way a publisher prices them "full game" is such a meaningless and ambiguous term. There is no definition because it's impossible.

 

[DivitLad]

The wow factor is missing since GT3

 

[Famine]

Unless we're talking about the way a publisher prices them "full game" is such a meaningless and ambiguous term. There is no definition because it's impossible.

I think Sony classifies it by Platinum trophies 😆

 

[Skinny McLean]

GTS sold 8 million copies

You underestimate the number of copies sold - surely a number of copies have been sold since that particular number was published many months ago. Today, just before posting this comment, there were 14,706,685 GTS accounts. ~300,000 of them are from the beta version, and an unknown number are from people with multiple accounts (I don't think there are millions of them, though.) Over the last seven days, over 40,200 new accounts have been created. Isn't that pretty good for an almost four years old game?

 

[Samus]

You underestimate the number of copies sold - surely a number of copies have been sold since that particular number was published many months ago. Today, just before posting this comment, there were 14,706,685 GTS accounts. ~300,000 of them are from the beta version, and an unknown number are from people with multiple accounts (I don't think there are millions of them, though.) Over the last seven days, over 40,200 new accounts have been created. Isn't that pretty good for an almost four years old game?

This is true but there are also circumstances which make comparing sales across generations tricky/misleading.

GTS has been the only PS4 GT game (so far), whereas past consoles had a sequel after 3/4 years which would see sales of the first game slow significantly.

Secondly GTS was reduced in price far quicker than past instalments, it was under £20 within only a few weeks IIRC and has been as low as £8 for long periods, so sales to casuals are obviously driven faster. That of course also means revenue is lower than past games despite similar sales figures.

Oh also you forgot to take into account used copies in that total account numbers. That could easily reach 7 figures, all 2+ accounts for one game copy.

At a guess sales are probably somewhere around 11-12m.