Gran Turismo 7 Revealed for PlayStation 5

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11,882
Australia
Melbourne
Neomone/GTP_Imari
It annoyed me SOO much, but PD is PD so they won't go "HeRe Ya Go KiDs, A nIcE fErRaRi At LeVeL 5!!"

Um, reward cars for licenses disagree with you. PD is fine with giving out high performance cars early in progression.
 

CLowndes888

I want to be monkey
Premium
10,444
Australia
Melbourne
fubbletrouble888
For all that is worth I hope I have to start the game in a used Daihatsu and have to actually plan and manage money before getting good cars. Best part of the old Gran Turismo Mode's IMO.
Yes, that's what makes the old games soo good. You need to think about your finances!
 
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20,503
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Not sure why people tie vehicles to progression so tightly. Progression should be about being able to enter more and more prestigious and challenging events and working your way through whatever content PD create for us. I've driven a Ferrari in hundreds of games, it's no great reward or goal to be able to drive one in GT7.

I mean you can put GT Sport in your console any time you want and drive any of the fast cars you've already unlocked, why would you want to wait hours in GT7 just to do the same thing?

Not saying you should be handed every car ten minutes in, some cars should be more exclusive, but I don't see the problem generally speaking of having fast cars early.

This isn't some RPG game where having all the best gear at the start would nullify any challenge. You could start GT7 with an F1 car in your garage, but as long as the restrictions on events are correct barring you from entering it into anything but F1 races, the challenge is no different than if you buy it 50 hours later. You've still got to drive it and win the race.
 
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111
Greece
Greece
Um, reward cars for licenses disagree with you. PD is fine with giving out high performance cars early in progression.
Yeah but they give you them because you earned them, and that isn't even remotely close to what I was talking about.
 
841
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Not sure why people tie vehicles to progression so tightly

It's the same in the real world, Go Karts, Formula 4, 3, 2, 1, for other things like Touring Cars there are manufacturers series and feeder series etc. People can skip series and also make sideways moves into Formula E, Rally, NASCAR, Indy Car, GT series etc but there is always some sort of progression from grass roots unless your dad owns a fancy knicker factory or something.

why would you want to wait hours in GT7 just to do the same thing?

This I think highlights the difference from where you and others are coming from. I enjoy what to you is just a time waste. I enjoy racing shopping trolleys and chosing buying better brakes or a turbo because I can't have both. I don't feel like it is getting in the way of "the good stuff" since it's all part of the whole experience.

This isn't some RPG game where having all the best gear at the start would nullify any challenge.

Gran Turismo has frequently been called a "CaRPG" and actually the thing that breaks most of them is the point at which you get a car that can do most of the big races and wipe the floor with everyone while bouncing off walls, ever since GT1 with the Mitsubishi GTO Twin Turbo.
 
2,921
Netherlands
Netherlands
PaMu1337
This I think highlights the difference from where you and others are coming from. I enjoy what to you is just a time waste. I enjoy racing shopping trolleys and chosing buying better brakes or a turbo because I can't have both. I don't feel like it is getting in the way of "the good stuff" since it's all part of the whole experience.
I do agree with you there, but once you get to the top levels, and have finished nearly all events in the game, it shouldn't be taking 10+ hours anymore to buy a single expensive car. Once you reached the top I feel that everything should be easily attainable.
 
20,503
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
It's the same in the real world, Go Karts, Formula 4, 3, 2, 1, for other things like Touring Cars there are manufacturers series and feeder series etc. People can skip series and also make sideways moves into Formula E, Rally, NASCAR, Indy Car, GT series etc but there is always some sort of progression from grass roots unless your dad owns a fancy knicker factory or something.

That's why I said you tie the progression to the events, not the vehicles. In my vision for the game events would be locked via experience based license tests, not doing 10 challenge based license tests or arbitrary "level" systems like GT5, or even worse, stars of GT6. So when you start you would only have the grass roots events to take part in, then as you gradually complete or win those, more prestigious events unlock and you progress in the career ladder.

That way it doesn't matter if you earn or win a fast car, you still have to race to get to use it in events BUT you have the faster car to drive in free, non-GT mode events for fun. Just as in the real world, just because I can afford to buy a GT3 car doesn't mean I have the necessary experience and licenses to enter a GT3 championship, but I can take it to a track for a track day.

This I think highlights the difference from where you and others are coming from. I enjoy what to you is just a time waste. I enjoy racing shopping trolleys and chosing buying better brakes or a turbo because I can't have both. I don't feel like it is getting in the way of "the good stuff" since it's all part of the whole experience.

No that isn't what I'm saying, you can still have the building up experience whilst also having top tier cars, as above. Your Ferrari isn't going to be much use to you if you need to upgrade your Renault Clio.

Gran Turismo has frequently been called a "CaRPG" and actually the thing that breaks most of them is the point at which you get a car that can do most of the big races and wipe the floor with everyone while bouncing off walls, ever since GT1 with the Mitsubishi GTO Twin Turbo.

Which as I've said before, is an issue with poor restrictions on events by PD, not the user having the cars. If PD tightened things up and mimicked more real world events you wouldn't be able to enter your Ferrari in events for hatchbacks and walk all over them. You shouldn't be able to enter any events with a ridiculously overpowered car.
 
15,842
United States
Maryland
GranTurismo0517
RandomCarGuy17
o when you start you would only have the grass roots events to take part in, then as you gradually complete or win those, more prestigious events unlock and you progress in the career ladder.

That way it doesn't matter if you earn or win a fast car, you still have to race to get to use it in events BUT you have the faster car to drive in free, non-GT mode events for fun. Just as in the real world, just because I can afford to buy a GT3 car doesn't mean I have the necessary experience and licenses to enter a GT3 championship, but I can take it to a track for a track day.
Which as I've said before, is an issue with poor restrictions on events by PD, not the user having the cars. If PD tightened things up and mimicked more real world events you wouldn't be able to enter your Ferrari in events for hatchbacks and walk all over them. You shouldn't be able to enter any events with a ridiculously overpowered car.
These honestly aren't bad ideas for a future GT career mode, it would keep things more grounded, but I would still prefer them as an option.

Well, except for your ideas on fixing the license tests. Earning them through experience would definitely be more enjoyable than having to do the starting and stopping test again.
 
795
Indonesia
Indonesia
Which as I've said before, is an issue with poor restrictions on events by PD, not the user having the cars. If PD tightened things up and mimicked more real world events you wouldn't be able to enter your Ferrari in events for hatchbacks and walk all over them. You shouldn't be able to enter any events with a ridiculously overpowered car.

Gran Turismo has frequently been called a "CaRPG" and actually the thing that breaks most of them is the point at which you get a car that can do most of the big races and wipe the floor with everyone while bouncing off walls, ever since GT1 with the Mitsubishi GTO Twin Turbo.

Well, if someone points out/corrects something good about something people bash they'll get called a fanboy regardless if it's true or false, but the fact is PD did give restrictions in the events, like even back away in GT2 (y'know, the infamous GT40, because of the 295 hp restriction). It started becoming a norm in GT6, with PP limit. So don't accuse PD for something they didn't even do.
 
15,842
United States
Maryland
GranTurismo0517
RandomCarGuy17
Gran Turismo has frequently been called a "CaRPG" and actually the thing that breaks most of them is the point at which you get a car that can do most of the big races and wipe the floor with everyone while bouncing off walls, ever since GT1 with the Mitsubishi GTO Twin Turbo.
Well, if someone points out/corrects something good about something people bash they'll get called a fanboy regardless if it's true or false, but the fact is PD did give restrictions in the events, like even back away in GT2 (y'know, the infamous GT40, because of the 295 hp restriction). It started becoming a norm in GT6, with PP limit. So don't accuse PD for something they didn't even do.
I should note to both of you that restrictions actually were in place since the original Gran Turismo. It's just that they were quite loose, especially in Gran Turismo 2. Gran Turismo 2 mostly restricted events based on the hp limit, aside from some events; you could use any car in any event (as long as it was under the hp limit). Of course, that was due to PD rushing that game to where they didn't have time or simply forgot to enforce the restrictions. In which I thought was fine as people could still play the game as intended if they wanted. There was just an option for other players to play the game in different ways then intended; I thought that made GT2 more enjoyable as a result.

----
With that said, there's still replayability with a GT game doing a more focused career in terms of motorsport. If you can start in one racing devision before moving onto other ones, that's an example right there. You could start with GT3 and move to F1 in one career playthrough while starting in Vintage GT racers for another playthrough. I can see some fun with that kind of racing, but I still say that a good career mode should have more options than that.

I know that if GT went that direction, I would miss the normal GT formula of starting with a cheap car and working my way up. It's been done multiple times, but it's never gotten stale to me. Which is why I say (and now I'm really repeating myself) that there should be options.
 
20,503
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Well, if someone points out/corrects something good about something people bash they'll get called a fanboy regardless if it's true or false, but the fact is PD did give restrictions in the events, like even back away in GT2 (y'know, the infamous GT40, because of the 295 hp restriction). It started becoming a norm in GT6, with PP limit. So don't accuse PD for something they didn't even do.

Of course I'm aware PD have used various restrictions across the games but as noted above many are very loose, far moreso than any real world series and still in sone cases not at all.

Asa result, there have always been events you could stream roll with a car far better than the AI. Restricting only drivetrain and power isn't enough. I seem to recall GT500 events in one of the later games didn't even restrict you to GT500 cars.

If they tighten things up even more like real world series then having high end cars wouldn't help you in anything but events specifically made for them, that's what I was getting at and what we were talking about.
 

CLowndes888

I want to be monkey
Premium
10,444
Australia
Melbourne
fubbletrouble888
Each event needs to have some kind of regulation, or they'll be open to exploitation. You should have a good idea of what you'll be up against so you know whether to tune your car or buy another one to compete.
 
11,882
Australia
Melbourne
Neomone/GTP_Imari
Yeah but they give you them because you earned them, and that isn't even remotely close to what I was talking about.

Right. "Congratulations kid, you earned this by figuring out which buttons were accelerator and brake. Have a car!"
 
37,675
Australia
The Bronx
That's why Custom Race and Arcade Mode, shoot, I'll add Sport Mode too, should offer all cars at the start. Simulation Mode should be that progressive challenge.
Each event needs to have some kind of regulation, or they'll be open to exploitation. You should have a good idea of what you'll be up against so you know whether to tune your car or buy another one to compete.
GT League has this with the "i" icon. Shows which cars can be used and which cars are rivals(AI). When tuning your car, it goes into the red when out of regulations.

It's all there. It's just the AI that's got to improve.
 

CLowndes888

I want to be monkey
Premium
10,444
Australia
Melbourne
fubbletrouble888
That's why Custom Race and Arcade Mode, shoot, I'll add Sport Mode too, should offer all cars at the start. Simulation Mode should be that progressive challenge.

GT League has this with the "i" icon. Shows which cars can be used and which cars are rivals(AI). When tuning your car, it goes into the red when out of regulations.

It's all there. It's just the AI that's got to improve.
Doesn't tell you if the AI cars are tuned though. Remember the Speedster Trophy in GT4? They were fully tuned cars and you had no idea until the AI pulled a 10 second gap on you within 1 lap.
 
15,842
United States
Maryland
GranTurismo0517
RandomCarGuy17
Right. "Congratulations kid, you earned this by figuring out which buttons were accelerator and brake. Have a car!"
Yup, every GT game from GT4 and onwards has been like that. With that said, I felt like I earned it in GT4 even by passing, but only because they were so tedious and frustrating.

Especially the 1 lap guide runs:

I really hate this track, REALLY HATE IT!

Yeah, 🤬 these tests!
 
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37,675
Australia
The Bronx
Doesn't tell you if the AI cars are tuned though. Remember the Speedster Trophy in GT4? They were fully tuned cars and you had no idea until the AI pulled a 10 second gap on you within 1 lap.
I'm not at home to check. I believe it does give the engine and weight specs of the AI cars. Again, the problem is the programming. I mean, we wouldn't need to spend 50,000MP to beat the same spec 330P4.

I with you though, but PD, as mentioned many times, have grouped the cars and only the outright win counts. I love using the 300SEL, but if I got own by class. Let's say over the 250 GTO or the 2000GT AI, I wouldn't bother adding power to try and win outright.

I'm trying to remember some of the events like the one you mentioned. My favorite in GT4, was the Tuner Race. I can't remember if the specs(and tyre choice) of AI were shown. However, cars like the Opera S2000(that car was super quick) are used. That gave some indication.
 
107
Belgium
Belgium
I mean you can put GT Sport in your console any time you want and drive any of the fast cars you've already unlocked, why would you want to wait hours in GT7 just to do the same thing?

Not saying you should be handed every car ten minutes in, some cars should be more exclusive, but I don't see the problem generally speaking of having fast cars early.

This isn't some RPG game where having all the best gear at the start would nullify any challenge. You could start GT7 with an F1 car in your garage, but as long as the restrictions on events are correct barring you from entering it into anything but F1 races, the challenge is no different than if you buy it 50 hours later. You've still got to drive it and win the race.

The low starting budget is what makes the beginning so fun. You have to choose your starting car wisely and use your limited resources to their best so you can tune your second hand car to a worthy 'race' car. I remember starting a GT game once where I received cr.100000 for playing a prologue/concept game earlier. I bought a M3 and won every race I was able to enter. It was no fun at all. Starting with an Infiniti G20/Honda CRX/... and using it until it is not capable anymore that is what I like about Gran Turismo. I remember from Driveclub that you had access to a lot of fast cars in the beginning, this way you lose the collecting aspect so you are only racing and for me that gets boring. I need some kind of RPG element where you can act as a collector. And the old Gran Turismo games were the best racing games for doing so, GT Sport doesn't have this.
 
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Dave A

TreVoR fan for life
Premium
28,177
United Kingdom
Cuddington, Cheshire
JDA1982
There needs to be more thought put into the single player career experience. The events we all know and love are nostalgic, and there's no reason not to keep those. But PD could divide the events into GT League events (which would be classic events like Sunday Cup, GT World Chapmionship etc.) and then a another category of event where the restrictions are tighter.

So you might have an event where not only does it restrict you to entering cars under 400pp but they also have a minimum weight of 1200kg and max power of 330bhp and must be 2wd, further restrictions on aero (max downforce restriction perhaps) could also happen. You could have series that are licensed from real racing series or heavilly based on a real series like DTM, GT500 etc.

You could go much further than that, but there's potential to create a career mode that has huge variety and eould require little to no grinding to complete. It just takes a fair bit of planning and thought to get the balance right. That was you still get your Sunday Cup, FF cup, Dream Car Championship and so on, but you also have a group of events you can't blitz through in the same manner should you acquire a fast car early on.

Ultimately it shouldn't take a ridiculously long time to acquire a single car you set your sights on, it sohuld take a long time to acquire everything and complete the game (i.e. every license test and event) but acuiring cars shoul not require grinding the same events over and over. If you win everything once, you should have enough to buy everything once or at the very least close to it.
 
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20,503
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
The low starting budget is what makes the beginning so fun. You have to choose your starting car wisely and use your limited resources to their best so you can tune your second hand car to a worthy 'race' car. I remember starting a GT game once where I received cr.100000 for playing a prologue/concept game earlier. I bought a M3 and won every race I was able to enter. It was no fun at all. Starting with an Infiniti G20/Honda CRX/... and using it until it is not capable anymore that is what I like about Gran Turismo. I remember from Driveclub that you had access to a lot of fast cars in the beginning, this way you lose the collecting aspect so you are only racing and for me that gets boring. I need some kind of RPG element where you can act as a collector. And the old Gran Turismo games were the best racing games for doing so, GT Sport doesn't have this.
Which again is a problem with event restrictions.

There are some absolute bargains in the real world, very spotty cars for under £20k.

https://www.motors.co.uk/car-57362569/?i=2&m=spw

4.5 litre TVR Chimaera for example, £17k. Doesn't mean I can go and enter it in a race for Renault Clios, or a TVR cup where are the other cars are much slower TVRs.
 
107
Belgium
Belgium
Why not? If TVR is the only restriction, you can use every TVR, even a Tasmin and make it capable of racing against Tuscan's and Red Rose Cerbera's. Than it depends on your settings. A good Gran Turismo game has very limited races and races without any so you get a very mixed starting grid. As I said, I like to use cars that on first sight seem to be unfit for that specific race.
 
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795
Indonesia
Indonesia
The low starting budget is what makes the beginning so fun. You have to choose your starting car wisely and use your limited resources to their best so you can tune your second hand car to a worthy 'race' car. I remember starting a GT game once where I received cr.100000 for playing a prologue/concept game earlier. I bought a M3 and won every race I was able to enter. It was no fun at all. Starting with an Infiniti G20/Honda CRX/... and using it until it is not capable anymore that is what I like about Gran Turismo. I remember from Driveclub that you had access to a lot of fast cars in the beginning, this way you lose the collecting aspect so you are only racing and for me that gets boring. I need some kind of RPG element where you can act as a collector. And the old Gran Turismo games were the best racing games for doing so, GT Sport doesn't have this.
And for Gran Turismo, I think having a wide range of starting cars to choose puts it ahead even further, browsing through various dealerships and especially used car dealerships to look into what suits you the most. Most other games just have you choose from a few number of cars to use, even Forza.

Which again is a problem with event restrictions.

There are some absolute bargains in the real world, very spotty cars for under £20k.

https://www.motors.co.uk/car-57362569/?i=2&m=spw

4.5 litre TVR Chimaera for example, £17k. Doesn't mean I can go and enter it in a race for Renault Clios, or a TVR cup where are the other cars are much slower TVRs.

There's always restrictions in any of the manufacturer events, in any GT game you can never do something like entering TVR Chimaera to Clio Cups.

There needs to be more thought put into the single player career experience. The events we all know and love are nostalgic, and there's no reason not to keep those. But PD could divide the events into GT League events (which would be classic events like Sunday Cup, GT World Chapmionship etc.) and then a another category of event where the restrictions are tighter.

So you might have an event where not only does it restrict you to entering cars under 400pp but they also have a minimum weight of 1200kg and max power of 330bhp and must be 2wd, further restrictions on aero (max downforce restriction perhaps) could also happen. You could have series that are licensed from real racing series or heavilly based on a real series like DTM, GT500 etc.

You could go much further than that, but there's potential to create a career mode that has huge variety and eould require little to no grinding to complete. It just takes a fair bit of planning and thought to get the balance right. That was you still get your Sunday Cup, FF cup, Dream Car Championship and so on, but you also have a group of events you can't blitz through in the same manner should you acquire a fast car early on.

Ultimately it shouldn't take a ridiculously long time to acquire a single car you set your sights on, it sohuld take a long time to acquire everything and complete the game (i.e. every license test and event) but acuiring cars shoul not require grinding the same events over and over. If you win everything once, you should have enough to buy everything once or at the very least close to it.
I wish majority of events like FF cups to be evolved like being divided into tiers like GT2/GT3 (but within single event) did where there can be low/mid/high powered cars (not only supercars, but also fully tuned cars or racing cars) to enter, because FR cars doesn't only consist of some standard sport cars like Hyundai Genesis. So keeping "outdated" nostalgic events like this is a must, but it's also a must to maximize which kind of cars to try within that.

There are certainly events based on real series like GT500 in GT4/5/6, but those that are based on real series has to have what makes the real events like the rules, regulations, etc. This also makes for a different experience compared to something like road car events.
 
20,503
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Why not? If TVR is the only restriction, you can use every TVR, even a Tasmin and make it capable of racing against Tuscan's and Red Rose Cerbera's. Than it depends on your settings. A good Gran Turismo game has very limited races and races without any so you get a very mixed starting grid. As I said, I like to use cars that on first sight seem to be unfit for that specific race.

That only works if there are some cars that are equal to the best you can bring though. The problem is when you bring a car that is head and shoulders above every other car, so you can walk it.

There's always restrictions in any of the manufacturer events, in any GT game you can never do something like entering TVR Chimaera to Clio Cups.

Yes that was obviously an extreme real world example but there are plenty of events through GT games that do have lax restrictions. There are quite a few in GT6 that limit you only by PP and whilst the AI cars are road cars, you can enter a race car and trounce them. Or a lot of the early events which are restricted to only 500PP or something, and you can enter a lightweight sports car or even some race cars against AI which are just quick sedans.

Then like I said earlier you have the Super GT GT500 event in GT6 which only has a restriction of 650PP, so you can enter any race car against the AI in GT500 cars, including many cars far better than them.

There are lots more examples but i'm obviously not going to trawl through every event of every game.
 
107
Belgium
Belgium
I agree at some point but I also like to use the BMW V12 Le Mans race car in the sunday cup on sports tires or a Audi RS6 Avant street car in a race for DTM cars... And if the one make races return you should get something unique from that brand as a gift car. Like if you have a race for BMW i3's you should get a one-off BMW i8 that you can't buy in the dealership. Not like the Saleen S7 event where you had to spend cr.700.000 for the S7 and you would get cr.10.000 and a Nike car that you couldn't use in any race...
 
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