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Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 1' started by gtmaster08, Mar 12, 2009.
So no more kool-aid?
Reminds me of early days of [size=+1]GT[/size] when someone named anakin_x_99 took over from someone named wagnerl, whose name was apparently Luke, and therefore had tended to use identities with Skywalker allusions.
Or was it the other way around?
Maybe Sportwagon should take over leading this thread. He's as scientific as it gets.
You have - so far - participated in absolutely no discussion whatsoever! You just keep coming back to the thread and starting new topics, presumably once everyone has answered your previous question. I strongly suspect that you know very little of the topics you raise, otherwise you'd be participating in the discussion rather than simply asking people questions...
This thread in general though...
Or is this a trap?
Well then, maybe we should go back to an earlier topic; "Oversteering". And here, I'll even lead this time. In the game, oversteering tends to happen in most FR cars, MR2, and NSX. But there are several factors concerning this. And even though everyone knows them I will repeat the conditions so that "I will be PARTICIPATING in this discussion!" They are;
1. Turning too sharply into a turn while at a high speed while applying the brakes.
2. Slamming hood-first into a wall at high speed.
3. Attempting to run across the road to cut off other cars OR to get a faster time via a shortcut.
Any of these will make the aformentioned cars spin out or "oversteer".
Bzzzt... Plenty of cars will just understeer like pigs when you do that.
No, that causes you to stop. Quickly.
And again... Wrong. Well, mostly. If you keep the throttle pinned while performing these sort of antics it can in some cases create wheelspin and in turn oversteer, but a stock Cappucino is RWD...
OH. Spin out? Ahem... Someone needs to go look up what oversteer is. A spin is generally created by a moment of too-extreme oversteer, but oversteer does not equate to a spin.
Well what I meant by the slamming into the wall is that when I did a time trial on SS Route 11 with the Viper, I slammed hood-first into one of those barriers
with the lights on them by accident when you go underneath the bridge and when I tried to turn away, I spun out. THAT's what I meant as far as that goes but I guess that is really due to stability. Which by the way, is a good thing to remember. Some high powered cars like the Viper GTS, NSXR GT2 LM edition, Castrol Supra GT, any of the TVR cars, or even the Corvettes can oversteer when not handled properly. Or could it be because of the way the weight is distributed in these cars on nasty turns on a course? hmm.......
High powered RWD cars oversteer? Really? Nobody could have guessed... the disease is called a lead foot (and the cure is called throttle control) and it causes the rear wheels to spin, which in turn causes them to lose grip, which in turn leads to oversteer. Also known as power oversteer, very little to do with the weight distribution.
I see lol.
Dude, if that's your intention, then why don't you just leave the thread alone in the first place? Then come back after you're done with whatever you're doing? This thread rarely gets an update anyway.
That's a genuine request.
Anyway, I found this thread to be particularly enigmatic. And oh, carry on with the oversteer discussion guys...
Fellow "scientists" of this thread, I have decided to return back to doing our past daily discussions. But this time, we won't be in the VFW hall. Nope, we will be in a simple place called, "U.N.G.T". And anyway, we will talking about changing car types. Put simply, tweaking car settings to "change" the car's drivetrain from pt.A to pt.B. Like for example, I would like a volunteer to explain a way to make an FR's handling drastically change from that of an oversteering monster powerhouse to a sedate, easy FF car's handling.
Make it 4WD. Done.
Are you actually going to participate in any discussions ever, or just drop in, pose a question and sod off again?
Read the GT4 tuning guides I put together (link in my signature), gain an understanding of exactly what the vehicle dynamics actually involve and then come back here and discuss it.
What you WILL do (this next part is not optional) is stop claiming to have an understand of things you quite clearly don't have a clue about.
These guides may have been written with GT4/5P in mind, but they still apply (in a much more basic way) to any of the GT series.
Scaff, who invited you here? I mean no offense since you ARE a moderator, but why do you have to be so negative? And Famine, no worries. I am definitely back because I have decided to postpone my LP videos until I finish this thread. Unless SOMEONE <points to Scaff> wants to purposely ruin this harmless thread!
Scaff knows more about the "science" of Gran Turismo than just about anyone on this site. He is also a real-life automotive engineer. If you're going to discuss car mechanics on any level, he's a guy you want on board.
That aside, this thread is not invite only and even if it were (which it wouldn't be), all Super Moderators have access to all forums and have a responsibility to uphold the site rules in all of them.
As far as I am aware I don't need an invite, nor have I done anything to ruin this thread.
Quite the opposite I have provided a link to information that you quite clearly need to read before you continue with this topic (that is if you are actually interested in learning something about the subject of this thread).
As Famine has kindly said, I have a fair bit of knowledge in this particular area, as while not formally qualified as an Automotive Engineer, I have worked in the industry for the majority of my working life and have taught in it for over a decade now. Including delivering training on the basics of automotive dynamics and driving techniques.
The guides I linked to combine that real-world experience, with hundreds of hours of testing over the entire GT series, given that I don't see how my post or my link could harm this thread in any way.
Your rather strange ideas of what causes oversteer however don't do you or a thread of this subject matter any good at all.
I await your feedback on the guides.
You know Famine, that's not a bad idea! <turns to Scaff> You know, do you maybe think that you could help me out with this? Don't get me wrong; I know a little about some things in Gran Turismo 2. It's just that I don't know anything about the advanced level, that's why I only like to discuss the basics about these topics. And I know that my theories are WAY off about what I talk about. But after all, isn't that why they call them theories?
Why are you talking about GT2? This thread is in the GT(1) sub-forum? Does it need to be moved?
I'm always more than happy to talk about anything automotive, and the guides I linked to do cover both the basic and more advanced areas of vehicle behaviour and tuning.
What you call theories I would call guesswork with little true understanding behind them, nothing wrong with that at all, we all need to start some place. However be very careful about how you present them, as if they come across as being stated in a factual manner then they run the risk of confusing people (and you will run the risk of getting some very negative comments from some members).
Now I've said it a few times now, download my two tuning guides and read them. They will save us both a lot of time in terms of the basics, and I am more than happy to answer any questions regarding them that you may have.
Consider it some 'homework' for the future of this thread.
Oooooof. Wow, you did not just diss the Scaffmeisster. You're lucky your thread is still alive, and you haven't been banned, my friend. He actually one of the mods who doesn't ever seem negative. Scaff is always informative, and nice about things.
This is like opening a discussion about skateboarding, and when Tony Hawk shows up to provide criticsm, ask him why the hell did he show up!
No, that's why they call them "potshots out of left field in complete and total darkness". "Theories" implies there is some small amount of understanding and thought and scientific consideration involved.
Are you drunk, schizophrenic, or 12? Maybe all three?
To get back on topic, I DO have a topic I wanna pose. Hopefully Scaff is still around.
I've noticed (after playing GT4 and comparing back to GT1) that many cars in GT1 hardly understeer at all, including Evos and AWDs. It's funny because back in my GT1 days, I used to think they were very understeery. But when comparing to 4, all a sudden you notice how HARD you can push cars in GT1 before "understeer" shows up. And it's nowhere near as bad as in GT4.
I've also noticed how many cars in GT1 can get COMPLETELY SIDEWAYS with just a flick of steering input, but then you give jsut a flick of countersteer, and you get it all back.. It's almost as if the front-end is anchored into the track like a slot car. This is the reason I "accidentally" did my first drift in a Viper at Grand Valley. It's very easy to get some oversteer in GT, but claim it all back. The Vipers in GT4 hardly oversteer, on the other hand. Almost disappointing the first time I drove one.
I drove a 4th-gen Supra awhile back in GT around Autumn Ring, and then compared the same car in GT4 around the same track. It's amazing I used to think GT was "realistic". I guess compared to other games from the time, it certainly is.
This comes down to different physics obviously. I'm not posing a question, I just wanted to open the floor to others who have also compared the same cars from game to game. It's an interesting revelation.
PB - You may find the following thread of interest...
Gran Turismo - A Comparison Across the Series
....which does exactly what you talk about. Takes a FWD, RWD, 4WD and MR car and looks at how they behave in GT, GT2, GT3 and GT4. I intend to update it with GT5 as soon as I can (which will of course be later this year at the earliest).
Nothing in GT4 does much except understeer massively. It's one of several reasons I will likely never finish the game.
You CAN get a car in GT4 to oversteer, but it's likely that a) you pulled some drastic measures to do so and b) you're not going to correct it once you started.
I see. Well, I guess we are finally finished with this thread. After all, I have nothing more to say on a topic. So if anyone want this thread to be closed then I will agree with them. In fact, I would like Famine to do the honors.