Grand Valley 300km Companion & Competition

Discussion in 'GT5 Race Reports' started by GTsail290, Feb 9, 2012.

  1. axletramp

    axletramp Premium

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    Cheers. :) Not so much a superhuman effort on my part, perhaps more an exercise in exploiting a couple of game issues which need tightening up. That being the inaccurate AI programming when dealing with pitstops in endurance races and the now over-favourable PP levels attached to certain FR cars. I might even add some 4WDs into that as my recent run in the Integrale seemed to go far better than any previous runs in that car pre v2.10.

    Sorry, didn't notice you'd used the same grid. Doh!

    Edit: Btw von Stiefel, congratulations to you for your runs. Certainly woken up a few of us old fogies around here. ;) I doubt I'd get near your times with a controller though - God forbid the day you start using a wheel! :eek:
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
  2. von Stiefel

    von Stiefel

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    Is my honor to be thus polluted? ...´tis not to be borne!
    My attempts at 330 PP are desperately insufficient, and lacking in any consequence whatsoever.
    I sense their scornful laughter as they overtake me one by one up the straight.
     
  3. von Stiefel

    von Stiefel

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    Isuzu 117 Coupé '68

    An FR car ....naturally.

    173 BHP (PL 98.2%)
    1080 kg (Ballast 177 kg - position 50)
    332 PP

    Sports Soft. No wing. Two pit stops, laps 20 and 40, for tyres only.

    Skidrecovery "on" ....yes, but otherwise this low a PP is beyond me.
    ABS "10"
    Other aids are "off" ...that at least.
    Sony controller

    1) GTO Twin Turbo MR '95
    2) Mazdaspeed Atenza '05
    3) Skyline GT-R (R32) '89
    4) Impreza Coupe WRX Type R STI Vers...
    5) GTO Twin Rurbo MR '98
    6) Lancer Evolution III GSR '95
    7) ego
    8) Lancer Evolution V GSR '98
    9) Fairlady Z Version S (Z33) '07
    10) Lancer Evolution VIII GSR '08
    11) 300 ZX 2by2 (Z32) '98
    12) Celica GT-FOUR (ST205) '98

    The two main opponents were the Impreza Coupe WRX and the Lancer Evolution VIII.

    It was my second attempt. The first one was a one-stop strategy, pitting on lap 31. This meant that I had very little usable rubber left by the final laps with 3 cars right behind me: At the beginning of lap 60 I skidded off. End of Race.

    Deep breaths, and I immediately started a new race against the same lineup, but this time intending a two-stop strategy.
    I took first spot on the first lap and stayed there until just before I pitted on lap 20. Laps 21-45 I slowly advanced from 5th to 2nd spot, and only managed the final step when the Impreza pitted on lap 45. The Impreza and the Lanzer VII pitted laps 41 and 45, and I overtook them both just as they were accelerating in the pit lane, exactly similar to my first attempt. But this time I had ten laps less tyre wear by the end of the race, enabling me to counter their attacks.

    Total time 2:19:49.524
    The Impreza +0.405 second
    The Lancer VIII +0.622 second

    So you see, it was close indeed.

    I'll have to watch the replay for Best Lap etc. At the moment my hands are trembling too much for a detailed race report :-)
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013
  4. von Stiefel

    von Stiefel

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    Honda Integra Type R (DC5) '04

    FF car, now the FR have become dubious.

    184 BHP (PL 85%)
    1380 kg (200 kg ballast)
    389 PP

    Sports Soft, two pit stops.

    No aids except an ABS of "1".
    Sony controller.

    1) STAGEA 25t RS FOUR S '98
    2) SOARER 430 SVC '01
    3) LEGACY Touring Wagon GT-B '96
    4) Lancer Evolution GSR '92
    5) IMPREZA Sedan WRX STi Version VI ... (Main opponent)
    6) Fairlady Z Version S (Z33) '07
    7) me
    8) Lancer Evolution V GSR '98
    9) CELICA GT-FOUR (ST205) '98
    10) Lancer Evolution IV GSR '96
    11) IMPREZA Sedan WRX Sti '94
    12) IMPREZA WRX STi '07

    Lap 1: into 1st spot right away.

    Laps 2-9: between low 2:16's and mid 2:17's.

    Laps 10-17: mainly 2:18's and low 2:19's.

    Laps 18-20: 2:19 - 2:20. Fairlady Z33 +16 seconds. The main opponent had become stuck some spots down. I pitted on lap 20.

    Lap 21: +14 seconds on 3rd spot.

    Lap 24: 3rd +5.5 seconds. Fairlady - Impreza Version VI - me.

    Lap 25: 2nd

    Lap 26: 1st

    On a lap I can't decode (32?) the Impreza moved up into 2nd spot.

    I fell asleep and pitted one lap late, on lap 41. Laps 41-60 largely a copy of laps 1-20: first there were laps in the 2:16's and then slowly increasing along with tyre wear. Laps 21-41 were a bit slower when it appeared that a win was easy.

    Lap 48: Impreza Version VI +31 seconds.

    Lap 55: Impreza +20 seconds.

    Total Time 2:19:19.360
    2nd Impreza Version VI 2nd +8 seconds. 3rd the Fairlady.

    Fastest laps: lap 2 of 2:16.044 and the Best Lap 48 of 2:16.043.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2013
  5. GTsail

    GTsail Premium

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    Copy paste from Laguna Seca thread:

    Back to the future....
    GTsail
     
  6. von Stiefel

    von Stiefel

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    Indeed.

    Dotini seems to have nailed the SS board in his Elise, and I readily admit I see little future in my attempts on improving on his excellent results.
    I shall have to seek glory elsewhere and luckily our gracious host has provided enough space for us in the alternative leaderboards, bless be.
     
  7. von Stiefel

    von Stiefel

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    Location:
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    Subaru BRZ S '12

    168 BHP (PL 85%)
    1430 kg (Ballast 200 kg)
    377 PP

    Sports Medium
    One stop
    Sony controller


    There really are no other cars I could discover approaching the grip, speed and agility of the Subaru at this level of PP. Still, in order to improve on the already existing Soft Medium and FR leaderboards I had to cheat a little: I applied Skid Recovery, "mild" Active Steering and an ABS of "10". I had several attempts applying an ABS of "1" and nothing else, but I found it beyond my abilities.
    So: the result is really not up there with Dotini's.


    Lineup: restart GT 5, then Le Mans 24 * 1, and Grand Valley * 8

    Silvia 240RS (S110) '83
    Accord Coupe EX '03
    350Z Gran Turismo Ltd (Z33) '05
    Lancer Evo VIII GSR '03
    Supra 3.0 GT Turbo A '88
    Soarer 430 SCV '01
    me
    Legacy B4 2.0 GT specB '03
    Mazdaspeed Atenza '05
    Skyline GT-R Vspec II (R32) '94
    Lancer Evo GSR '92

    The Lancer Evo VIII is the fastest but when you block him - and you have to! - the 350Z Gran Turismo is up there with us being a danger too.

    A very tolerable start and I took 1st spot on lap 2. Not by driving cleanly, dear me no.

    Laps 2-10 : lap times in the 2:19's, roughly

    Laps 11-20 : lap times in the 2:20's.

    Laps 21-30 : lap times in the 2:21's etc.

    The Evo VIII and the 350Z changed positions behind me, sometimes overtaking me. Usually at the end of the S/F straight and the agility of the Subaru came in handy in the following curves. They were never out of my mirror. They had surplus speed on the straight, I outbraked and outturned and shortcutted and blocked them .

    I pitted on lap 32. This was several laps before I intended - preferably as close to lap 40 as possible - but the Evo VIII had overtaken me and immediately began to pull away. It was now or never.

    I rejoined right behind a bunch of cars, but within 2 laps I was on 3rd spot. Up front the Evo VIII was pulling away from the 350Z. Laps 33-42 the distance between me and the Evo III never changed from 34-37 seconds.

    He finally pitted then, on Lap 42, and rejoined the race around 8 seconds behind me while I was chasing the leading 350Z.

    I caught up with the 350Z - he then pitted on lap 45 or 46 - and the Evo VIII caught up with me, and the two of us had a merry dance until the finish. I blocked the Evo VIII again-again 200 meters before the finish line, he had to slow down a fraction and the 350Z chose that moment to catch up with us out of nowhere and steal 2nd place.


    Total Time. 2:21:38.627

    Best lap : lap 7 of 2:19.076

    2nd : 350Z Grand Turismo + 0.255 second
    3rd : Evo VIII +0.301 second

    (edit: lol, I got the slowest win too!)
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2013
  8. axletramp

    axletramp Premium

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    Nice run that man! :tup:

    That damned cheatin' car again! ;)
     
  9. von Stiefel

    von Stiefel

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    Am I to be shot at dawn?
     
  10. von Stiefel

    von Stiefel

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    I was tearing my hair out trying to get the PP down to somewhere near Dotini's for the stock BZR S '12 (I cannot reduce it below 406 PP and 198 BHP). Only then I noticed he had no oil and 6883.2 miles.

    Dang! The Subaru must be close to falling apart by now.
     
  11. NCRthree

    NCRthree Premium

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    *Disclaimer- I don't have a long race report to offer for this attempt. This was my first foray into GT5 Enduros. After playing for almost 2 1/2 years, it's about time! Also didn't see the Spec write up until now so I didn't run against the NSX. Didn't realize that was part of the rules, sorry. Next time I'll use that field.

    I used a Premium 99 Evo T.M. I do a lot of Arcade Races so I just ran like I do with them. Added my weight (75kg), fully stock car. No aids/no ABS. Cockpit view. SH tires and B/B of 3/1. Started at 322 hp and 464 pp. Around 90 miles on car. Should have changed the oil as it lost power during the race-almost 10 hp.

    Rabbit car was a 04 STI with a BL of 2.13.523. My BL was 2.13.024. Total time was 2.14.05x. Most of my laps were in the 13's then a gradual lowering into the 15's in first stint.

    Anyway, I had a blast! I let the field pass at Race Start like I do in Arcades. It took me until lap 42 to gain the lead when the STI pitted. I'd finally caught him on 30 but pitted instead of continuing the chase. What was cool was I didn't know if I would ever catch him. After lap 50 my lap times plummeted into the 2.16's and the winning margin was only 5-6 seconds with the Subie gaining a second or more every lap toward the end.

    This inspired me to try some other Enduros for sure. Maybe Laguna tonight, heh. Great thread you've got. I wouldn't have tried this out unless I'd seen it. Thanks.
     
  12. GTsail

    GTsail Premium

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    Welcome to the Valley NCRthree!!

    It sounds like you had a good race against the Subaru WRX spec C.:tup:

    You don't have to run against the Honda NSX Type R '02 to get on the Leaderboards. Its only a requirement for the "spec" racing, which is something axletramp and Dotini dreamed up to put some variety into the GV300 racing.

    I see that I'm not the only one who likes to spot the field a few seconds at the start of the race!:tup: Check out Dotini's post # 241 and my post # 243 above.

    Good luck with your next attempt!
    GTsail
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2013
  13. NCRthree

    NCRthree Premium

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    Thanks for the welcome GTSail. I'll run only fully stock cars with no aids. Won't add ballast if that's the rule for "spec".

    So just to clarify: I need to run against the NSX for the "spec" class correct? Also is a win part of the rules? No way I could beat the NSX in that Evo if it's running 2.11's. Thanks.
     
  14. GTsail

    GTsail Premium

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    Yes, you must run against the NSX Type R '02 to get ranked on the "spec" Leaderboard.

    The NSX Type R '02 will run some laps as low as 2:10.5xx:scared:, but thankfully it won't do this the entire race.

    Take a look at posts # 226 thru # 231 above, where we start talking about the new "spec" racing against the NSX Type R '02.

    You do need to win your race to get ranked at the top of the PPV Leaderboards, but you don't need to win the race to post on this GV300km thread. If you have a close and interesting race where you lose by a few seconds, we would all welcome to read about it and see how your race progressed.

    Respectfully,
    GTsail
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013
  15. elrousso

    elrousso

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    Location:
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    Unfortunately I didn't save the replay (shame on me) but here's a quick report of my latest GV300 attempt (I'll try to post things I remember off the top of my head) :

    Seat Ibiza Cupra '04
    179hp (down to 178hp at the end of the race)
    180ft-lb
    1177kg
    402PP
    Sports Medium tyres all around

    Full-Custom Transmission
    Twin-Plate Clutch
    Semi-Racing Flywheel
    Full-Custom Suspension

    Ride Height : -20/-15
    Spring Rate : 8.5/9.5
    Dampers (Ext.) : 8/9
    Dampers (Comp.) : 8/7
    Anti-Roll Bars : 3/4
    Camber : 0.5/0.5
    Toe : 0.10/-0.10

    1st Gear : 3.303
    2nd Gear : 2.351
    3rd Gear : 1.774
    4th Gear : 1.398
    5th Gear : 1.151
    6th Gear : 0.991
    Final Gear : 3.647
    Top Speed setting : 220mph (197mph at the end of the straight)

    TC set at 3
    ABS set at 1
    Everything else OFF

    DualShock3

    Lineup #17

    Lancer Evolution III GSR '95
    SKYLINE GT-R V-spec (R33) '95
    350Z Gran Turismo 4 Ltd. (Z33) '05
    Lancer Evolution X GSR P.P. '07
    IMPREZA Sedan WRX STi '02
    ACCORD Coupe EX '03
    -Ibiza Cupra '04-
    G35 Coupe '06
    LEGACY B4 2.0GT spec.B '03
    300ZX 2by2 (Z32) '98
    SUPRA 3.0GT Turbo A '88
    SILVIA spec-R AERO (S15) '02

    LAP 1 - 30 :

    Rolling start, so I get a little behind by the first corner, but I'm able to make my way up to first by lap 3-4, and stay there until about lap 26, when the Impreza furiously gets past me. By that time, it had been 7-8 laps where the 2nd-placed Subaru would overtake me on the straight, before I would take back my first place on the first corner, but on lap 26, I would stay back, even fall into 3rd place at times behind the Evo X. I go into the pits at the end of lap 30, about 13 seconds behind the now-leading Impreza...

    LAP 31- 60 :

    I get out of the pits, about 45 seconds behind the Impreza, and would begin to hack away at that gap, before he would go into the pits himself, which he did on lap 46 (I think). I also did my fastest lap on this stint, a 2'16.954 on lap 34. I had a 20 second lead at that time, but it didn't take long before the Impreza would be right back on my back. That gap closed to ONE SECOND by the end of lap 50, and then began a 10-lap stint of myself trying to keep my first place against the relentless assault of the Subaru (as you can imagine, I was kind of an a-hole during those laps, as the Ibiza hasn't got nearly as much power as the Impreza, as well as being on worn tyres).

    FINISH LINE :

    1- Ibiza Cupra '04 - 2h20'07.904
    2- IMPREZA Sedan WRX STi '02 +0.081
    3- Lancer Evolution X GSR P.P. '07 +0.375

    I don't remember the exact order for the rest...

    It took a long time to test and choose the right car, and I wanted to use a stock one but couldn't get the right times out of the stock Ibiza so I went with some modifications, but no modification to the car's HP. I was impressed with the Ibiza, as it was still pretty easy to drive even on worn tyres (except maybe for the last 1-2 laps before pitting or the end of the race), and also easy on fuel, as I didn't need to refuel at all on my pitstop on lap 30, with only 44 units of fuel spent during the first 30 laps.

    As well, since I'm a VW enthusiast IRL, I've set a goal for myself to use only VAG cars for my next endurance runs, so this was the first, with the Seat.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2013
  16. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

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    Ford RS200 '84 -Stock-
    36,472 miles, with oil change and car wash
    PP: 430/424
    HP: 243/232
    Weight: 1180 kg
    PL: 100%
    Aids: None, except ABS 1
    Tires: Comfort Soft

    Total Time: 2:20:40.154
    MoV: 0.216
    BL: 2:18.834

    Lineup: console reset, then Le Mans 24 x 1, and Grand Valley x 8
    Silvia 240RS (S110) '83
    Accord Coupe EX '03
    350Z Gran Turismo Ltd (Z33) '05
    Lancer Evo VIII GSR '03
    Supra 3.0 GT Turbo A '88
    Soarer 430 SCV '01
    me
    Legacy B4 2.0 GT spec B '03
    Mazdaspeed Atenza '05
    Skyline GT-R V spec II (R32) '94
    Lancer Evo GSR '92
    Skyline Coupe 350GT '03

    Abbreviated race description:
    Laps 1-6: Slowly work into lead. All driving neat, clean, tidy and fair. The Silvia holds everybody up.
    Laps 6-20: Hold first place narrowly to onrushing Lancer Evo VIII.
    Laps 20-30: Got passed when out of shape for 1st hairpin, dropped back rapidly.
    Lap 31-44: Pit for new CS tires and 8 liters fuel, gap to leader about 50 seconds maximum.
    Lap 44-finish: Retake lead when Lancer pits, margin 3 seconds, expanding to 16 seconds, then diminishing to 0.216 at finish. Mild blocking on straight for final 10 laps.

    Finish..................................Best Lap
    1) Dotini Ford RS200 '84........2:18.452
    2) Lan Evo VIII.....................2:15.901
    3) Skyline 350GT...................2:17.302
    4) Legacy B4.........................2:17.098
    5) 350Z Gran Turismo.............2:16.832
    6) Skyline GT-R V Spec II '94
    7) Soarer 430 SCV
    8) Accord Coupe EX
    9) Silvia 240 RS
    10) Supra 3.0 GT Turbo A
    11) Mazdaspeed Atenza
    12) Lan Evo GSR '92

    Comment: This was probably my most closest and most exciting GV300 ever, with the finish always in doubt. I made a couple of minor mistakes, and learned to drive the RS200 a bit better over the course of the event. Even so, a redo would still be a challenge!


    Respectfully submitted,
    Steve
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2013
  17. von Stiefel

    von Stiefel

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    Location:
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    Wheeew ...a close one, and very difficult.

    Honda Integra Type R (DC2) '98

    FF

    188 BHP (186 BHP at the end of the race)
    1430 kg (Ballast 200 kg)
    387 PP (385 PP at the end)

    Sports Hard
    One stop
    Sony controller

    I had to cheat a bit after several restarts: Skid Recovery "ON", Active Steering "Light". ABS of "1".
    The race itself was a lot of illegal blocking.

    Lineup: restart GT 5, then Le Mans 24 * 1, and Grand Valley * 8

    Silvia 240RS (S110) '83
    Accord Coupe EX '03
    350Z Gran Turismo Ltd (Z33) '05
    Lancer Evo VIII GSR '03
    Supra 3.0 GT Turbo A '88
    Soarer 430 SCV '01
    me
    Legacy B4 2.0 GT specB '03
    Mazdaspeed Atenza '05
    Skyline GT-R Vspec II (R32) '94
    Lancer Evo GSR '92


    It was a rough start, but I was in front after a few laps. All the way up to lap 28 I had a string of cars trailing me though, when my tyre degredation made me wobble entering the Start/Finish straight ...and I was down to 3rd. I pitted on Lap 32, 12 seconds down and the tyres beginning to look and feel miserable. Best lap was in the high 2:19's.

    I rejoined the race on 11th spot and trailing by 50 seconds. A free run enabled several fast laps, the best lap 39 of 2:19.276. Then I caught up with the slowest of the bunch and got busy. Once I had overtaken them, they pitted ...naturally. The front three cars were too fast for me, and I had to wait for their pit stops. The lead car kept his advantage, around 45 seconds was the closest I got before he pitted ...I looked in vain for the advantage of their tyre wear.

    The last one pitted on lap 42 and rejoined right in front of me, and I overtook him at the very last moment before his much superior speed and acceleration would have given him a free run. The rest of the race consisted of three cars right behind me, changing position between themselves: the 350Z Gran Turismo, the Skyline GT-R and the Lancer Evo VIII.

    At the finish line I beat the 350Z Gran Turismo by 0.108 second, the other two right behind us. Couldn't be much closer.

    Total 2:22.18.382


    (I never attempted the stock cars before, but this Integra seems promising. So I have pulled off everything: back to Standard Transmission, Standard Suspension, basic drivetrain, PL 100, No Ballast. Everyhing as delivered, for 178 BHP and 393 PP. Weight 1080 kg. Single Aid an ABS of "1". Sports Soft tyres. Runs beautifully! Top Speed is set high, therefore acceleration at low revs is sluggish, but once revs and speed are well up there the car is almost lively! A lap time in the 2:17's was somewhat easily reached, the opposition really struggling to keep up with me)
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2014
  18. von Stiefel

    von Stiefel

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    Dotini's PP of 362 has annoyed ever since I arrived here. But I could discover no car able to equal or better it, especially not using automatic transmission ....I have neither the hands not the dexterity for manual transmission. Not even my trusted Hommel Berlinette. One or two cars showed promise but I couldn't push their PP below 362.
    And there's that long straight: the opposition reaching speeds negating all the advantages I can pick up elsewhere.

    In the end I had to use the Hommel, Skid Recovery and an ABS of 10 ...sigh.

    Hommel Berlinette R/S Coupe '99

    Sports Soft tyres, MR.

    140 BHP (PL 90.1%)
    Weight 1150 kg (Ballast 200)
    PP 361

    ABS "10"
    Skid Recovery ON

    1 stop (lap 34, no fuel tyres only)
    Sony controller

    Lineup: restart GT 5, then Le Mans 24 * 1, and Grand Valley * 8

    Silvia 240RS (S110) '83
    Accord Coupe EX '03
    350Z Gran Turismo Ltd (Z33) '05
    Lancer Evo VIII GSR '03
    Supra 3.0 GT Turbo A '88
    Soarer 430 SCV '01
    me
    Legacy B4 2.0 GT specB '03
    Mazdaspeed Atenza '05
    Skyline GT-R Vspec II (R32) '94
    Lancer Evo GSR '92


    The start wasn't too difficult .....after several days of practice. Some slowish cars up front allowed me to take 1st spot on the 1st lap and open a small gap while they block the faster cars. I stayed there for a while, and having a free run I managed to put in a few fast laps in the mid to high 2:19's.

    But for most of the first stint I had a string of cars trailing me, happily causing trouble for each other too. Once the fast cars were right behind me we were all of us somewhat troubled by tyre wear, and my lap times by lap 30 were in the 2:22's ...at best. In a previous race I pitted too soon - from 3rd spot on lap 31 - and lost the race spinning out on lap 59, so this time I by all means fair and foul - mainly the latter - pitted on lap 34 from 1st spot. Last couple of laps were very difficult, the tyres little more than a prayer.

    I rejoined the race on 9th spot, and with more or less a free run, watching the other cars pit one after the other, I put in some fast laps. By the time they caught up with me - I'll have to check the replay for the exact spot and "they" being mainly the Lancer Evo VIII - my tyres were showing some wear again and the race was really on.

    Now, I had to resort to "means foul". Just before the pit lane exit, there's a small red box protruding from the barrier. Keeping right you let a car almost pass you on your right side, and then you accidentally-like swerve a bit close to the barrier, looking the other way as if you didn't mean it, and voila! ......problem solved.

    Still, by the beginning of lap 60 I was 3rd in a bunch of four cars, and I feared for my life. The corners were MY territory though, and I crossed the Finish Line swerving from side to side, blocking like mad, and only just keeping the bunch at bay. Most illegally, but I won!

    Total Time 2:21.52.829
    Best lap 2:18.651

    2. Lancer Evo VIII GSR '03 + 0.197 sec
    3. Skyline GT-R Vspec II (R32) '94
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2014
    Dotini and ukmalb like this.
  19. nostradavor2

    nostradavor2

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    928
    ADVICE needed
    Maybe stupid *BUMP*.. But I did this race today and few days earlier in 147 GTA stock 100% with no aids only ABS=1.. And I didn't read rules correctly obviously becausw I thought you are supposed to race NSX type R and I lost 2 times but my fastes laps were 2:11.9xx and seeing your laps I couldn't understand how you win this.. And now I see that you actually avoid racing NSX *facepalm* .. So if I use 147 GTA again I think it's around 430pp stock but it's FF and eats tyres like crazy. . If I use it with no NSX then I'll win to easy..
    So if someone is still alive here can you recommend me a good car to race against NSX and/or good car to race if there's no NSX.. I mean to have close race.. Also I didn't notice much difference on tyre wearing between SM and SS.. Is that normal?
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2019
  20. axletramp

    axletramp Premium

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    Location:
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    *blows dust off the thread*

    I ran the 147 GTA here and just about managed to win - just not against a rabbit. (sorry pic links no longer work)

    Going by page one of this thread, the Pontiac Solstice was a popular choice. But I'd probably go for a tweaked Lotus Elise or even a standard NSX for a laugh.

    Ah the memories!
     
  21. nostradavor2

    nostradavor2

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    ***Delete please
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2019
  22. nostradavor2

    nostradavor2

    Messages:
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    ***Delete please
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2019