Gravel Traps

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lol not happening
Before we get thing started, I don't want to hear things like "who cares about gravel traps? i never end up in the gravel (cause i'm so pro that i never make any mistakes)" This thread is not a "pointless thread", nor is it a "stupid topic". This is a GT5 forum, every sensible topic deserves to be discussed. Also, no off topic posts and no bashing of users. I don't want this to get closed like the E3 thread did.

In Gran Turismo PSP and GT5P, the gravel traps are literally traps, you can go into one with a good amount of speed, and get slowed down to 10mph. And, for some reason, the throttle is limited while in the gravel, whether you have traction control on or not. Aren't they supposed to spin, while the car tries to get up to speed and get out of the gravel, and kick up some dirt as well, rather than skipping out of it?

Another thing is, when you're speeding along, taking a high speed corner, and you go over the rumbles a bit too much and end up just touching the gravel, the car will lose a lot of speed, and/or lose control, and may spin. This is not how it is in real life, is it?

Opinions? Of course you have an opinion, this is a forum. So post yours below.
 
Real gravel traps pretty much immobilize most race cars, and I don't think we want that in a game.

I'm fine with the way they are right now, but I'll agree that they should actually give us control over the throttle. Those who floor it would learn fast that they need to modulate the throttle.

And I imagine what a car would do going over onto the grass would depend on a lot of stuff, but it probably would at least lose some speed if two wheels went off far enough.
 
I don't think that a car will lose 20 miles per hour in a heartbeat, from going over the rumbles a bit too much and touching the gravel on the other side. It might lose some speed, and kick up a dirt cloud.
 
Well they're designed to slow the cars down from high speeds to minimized hard impact damage, so depending on how it goes onto the gravel, it could slow it down a fair amount.
 
It's funny to race in a track with gravel tracks. We need fun in GT5, so I guess it's better to have a few, say 2 or 3 series, tracks with gravel traps.
 
PJ-FFL
Before we get thing started, I don't want to hear things like "who cares about gravel traps? i never end up in the gravel (cause i'm so pro that i never make any mistakes)" This thread is not a "pointless thread", nor is it a "stupid topic". This is a GT5 forum, every sensible topic deserves to be discussed. Also, no off topic posts and no bashing of users.
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Lol. There's a guilty conscience about starting a thread if ever I saw one :lol:
 
I would love to see realistic gravel traps. We will never get them though. Sony America would never allow it I am sure.

If PD were smart/interested they would include it as a selectable option hidden in the menus.
 
I hope PD have improved the way we get out of the gravel, with no aids on TCS still kicks in untill your back on the track!
 
Who cares about gravel traps? I never end up in the gravel, cause I'm so pro that I never make any mistakes.
 
Main problem is the way the game takes control of the throttle for you. This seriously annoys me, and goes against the whole point of being a simulator. It was a big step backward from when earlier GT games didn't nanny you as much.

Edit: (more ranting)
Limiting throttle input off-track in the gravel and whatnot gets rid of a lot of the excitement and errors a player could do, making the whole thing come off as more sterile and clinical than racing is in real life. PD are obsessed with cars never going out of control, like we're all supposed to race around as perfectly as the AI cars, and never want to do proper donuts etc, things that real cars can and should be able to do if you have realistic physics.

Edit 2: I'm fine with the gravel reacting with the car to slow it down, but it has to be physics based on real gravel, and not just a cheaply programmed speed decrease no matter the car or manner you hit the gravel for the sake of forcing the player to not take shortcuts. If you raise the suspension etc, put rally tires on... you should be able to go a LOT faster through the gravel - at the expense of winning the race as most of the track is tarmac. My point is that it should be physics based, and not all cars should get hit with a standard default penalty for going into the gravel.

Of course PD just want everyone to be forced to race cleanly and fairly. I say let people smash into each other, go off the track etc without fun-killing penalties like unrealistic speed reductions where the game takes over your throttle (gravel traps) or painfully anal top speed limitations (collisions) no matter whose fault the collision was.

Here's an idea: Let the player have complete control of their car to race the freaking race, THEN blackflag/penalise them after the race (they get no points and/or other racers get bonus points if you slammed them off-track with a decently hard intentional crash (small taps that wouldn't result in race-ending damage in real life should be fine)). That way, people who race well will be rewarded still, and people who want to have fun without the game being anally retentive and momentarily confiscating your toys (that you paid $100 to enjoy) will have fun too.

Edit (fixing above idea):
During the race, if you do things where the game would penalise you (knocking other cars off track etc), you get a warning telling you that action will give you a penalty (points/credits/time/whatever the valued thing is in GT5's online world) at race-end. If you exit the game trying to get away scott-free, the online code should still make sure your profile/user will still be hit with that penalty on your record, so its still worth it to you to keep racing and win back your pride/penalty by placing well. But at no stage in the race itself should you be forced to slow down or have your fun toys taken away.

I was just playing GT1/2/3 and realised just how fun and non-nannying those titles were. So much less clinical and dull than what we had to endure in GT4. I hope GT5 is a genuinely fun and exciting game, with an emphasis on fair racing, realism AND FUN.
 
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It would be good to have them have different impacts on Pro or Standard.

If a car dug in and rolled with gravel flying everywhere that would be pretty awsome. Be cool too if the next time you came round there was a car being lifted out with a crane or something.

The problem for me is that I see quite a bit of the gravel and grass. :)

Anything is better than the stupid penalties from GTP.
 
Skidmark
It would be good to have them have different impacts on Pro or Standard..
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I like that idea it should a menu like the tyres eg. gravel Arcade ( just slows you down, not to much but it does) , Professional (gravel will fly in the air and it will realistic slow you down with wheel spin) and real (you can bottom out and wheel spin a lot and 8/10 you will get out and the other 2/10 you will bottom out or get stuck).

I think if you play in real they should a real you should have the option to turn on a stewards push so if you do get stuck you can be pushed out or if you if that is to complex you get reset to the side of the road and it shouldn't be jumpy it should be like this:

car stuck---->fade to black screen---->screen fades out as the car drives out of the gravel on to the edge of the circuit---->you get control back when the car is doing about 5mph off the outside line.
 
PJ-FFL
Before we get thing started, I don't want to hear things like "who cares about gravel traps? i never end up in the gravel (cause i'm so pro that i never make any mistakes)" This thread is not a "pointless thread", nor is it a "stupid topic". This is a GT5 forum, every sensible topic deserves to be discussed. Also, no off topic posts and no bashing of users. I don't want this to get closed like the E3 thread did.
Click to expand...
Wow, was that really necessary?!

PJ-FFL
Opinions? Of course you have an opinion, this is a forum. So post yours below.
Click to expand...
Right, but remember folks, you must always preceed your comments with "IMO", otherwise they might get perceived as universal fact by some members ;)

Onto the topic in question!

Regarding the gravel traps in Gran Turismo, I'm pretty much OK with them as they are. They have to penalise you in some capacity, but not to the extent that would happen in real life (i.e. take you out of the race). Unless the aim of the game is outright realism, their purpose in-game is very different to that in real life, where they are there to prevent high-speed impacts and help save lives.

Having said that, I think there could be improvements made in terms of how they react to the speed you are going. If you are going extremely fast and you accidentally left the track and caught the back edge of a trap, in theory you would almost skip over the surface. This should really be replicated in-game.
 
If you are going extremely fast and you accidentally left the track and caught the back edge of a trap, in theory you would almost skip over the surface. This should really be replicated in-game.
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You mean like when cutting corners?
 
Toca Race Driver 3 had everything pitch-perfect regarding both gravels, grass and everything in PRO mode.

Have it like that and everybody should be happy.
 
  • Going into the gravel trap should be physics based.
  • I also wish we had full control over the throttle, the way it's now is just ridiculous.
  • And I would like to hear the marbles hitting the bottom of the car. Again, this is a big sound effect that GT is missing
 
in reality you have different types of gravel traps... sometimes you see cars that can escape and sometimes not...this is because of different deepness, gravel type etc. this should be in gt5 too... and i agree with "pj-ffl" where he wrote that a car should not be slowed down too much when it is only slightly touching the edge of the gravel trap when driving with a medium/high speed...

also of course it would be nice when you bring along a bit gravel when you go back on the track and make it worse in that section...at least until some cars drove along there... understand?
 
Im with humpus

Yes this is one problem I think the game has had in how it limits the revs with offs and spins.
They should make it that with a learning curve or degree of skill a player can acquire the ability to enable a quicker recovery back on track.
 
humpus
And I would like to hear the marbles hitting the bottom of the car. Again, this is a big sound effect that GT is missing
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This is missing from a lot of racing games, hearing stones etc. pinging off the bottom of the car while racing would add a nice little element of realism to the game. Dirt 2 has it (obviously the cars are on gravel but the idea remains) and it really does add a nice edge to the experience.

I remember when Top Gear tested an AMG Black recently (I'm not sure which model) by driving it around London, they could hear stones hitting the bottom of the car, and that was only driving at low speeds. It would be nice to hear it in a racing game.
 
PJ-FFL, who cares about gravel traps?? Dont know about you but I never end up in the traps. As far as I can see this is a stupid pointless topic...













:p I would have to agree in the favor of atleast killing off the "auto" TC that kicks in.
 
The demo at Christmas pretty much picked up on your dilemma. From what I could remember, you could no longer just cut across the grass and dropping wheels off the road slowed you down.

But what you've got wrong is that dropping a wheel into the dirt automatically puts you in a spin. Very rarely does that actually happen when a driver has no outside contact. It loosens up the steering and gives the car a slight jerk, but unless you're under braking, nothing serious ever really happens.

I'd like to see painted white lines make an impression if we do indeed get wet weather.
 
@marchi,

Agreed. However it is a bit more complicated than you explained, it is definitly true that putting one wheel on the dirt will have no effect... on the spot.

All depends on how and where. If its on a straight lane then nothing to worry about. If it's under heavy acceleration there is two situations:
- if the car as blocked differential (and some non ridiculous power) then problem. Indeed your tires can handle a certain amount of traction, or if one wheel is in dirt, no grip, so only one wheel is actually handling the grp for two = high chances of spin (or hugggeeee skidmark) --> if its a FR, MR or RR... rest will result on a nice burnout.
- if the car doesnt have blocked differential (yes it still happen, usally for small cars) then all the power is given to the no grip wheel which result in a clear lost of acceleration...

The other situation, the breaking... Then again, two possibilities:
- front wheel on dirt: your car just dont slow down as much as you want and go straight.
- rear wheel on dirt: same grip poblem than acceleration, you block both rear wheels. and when you lost rear grip in breaking there is usually no other end than a nice spin.

Of course, there is driving skills, but as far as you dont have the same feeling in front of the tv than inside the race car, it will be really difficult to avoid or handle...
Best solution, drive clean ;)
 
This is a pointless topic and doesn't matter whether it is in GT5 or not. For the sake of the game coming out early, I hope not.

We're going to be driving on the race track, not on the run off area of the track!
 
snake900
This is a pointless topic and doesn't matter whether it is in GT5 or not. For the sake of the game coming out early, I hope not.

We're going to be driving on the race track, not on the run off area of the track!
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So it doens't matter to you have fast you or an opponent can get back on track after a collision, spin or little mistake?
It doesn't matter to you how much you're being slowed down in the gravel?
It doesn't bother you that the recent gravel traps are highly unrealistic?

That's very undemanding for an average GT fan :sly:
 
humpus
So it doens't matter to you have fast you or an opponent can get back on track after a collision, spin or little mistake?
It doesn't matter to you how much you're being slowed down in the gravel?
It doesn't bother you that the recent gravel traps are highly unrealistic?

That's very undemanding for an average GT fan :sly:
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Yeah, they should make gravel traps realistic as possible, because after all, it's the real driving simulator. :sly:
 
Right, but remember folks, you must always preceed your comments with "IMO", otherwise they might get perceived as universal fact by some members
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I just figured out what 'IMO' meant :lol:

I like the ideas of driver 100% throttle control in the gravel; sounds of the 'marbles' and scattered gravel for a few laps in the area of the 'off'
 
humpus
So it doens't matter to you have fast you or an opponent can get back on track after a collision, spin or little mistake?
It doesn't matter to you how much you're being slowed down in the gravel?
It doesn't bother you that the recent gravel traps are highly unrealistic?

That's very undemanding for an average GT fan :sly:
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The gravel slows you down enough in the time trial demo. I don't see a problem.

GT5 isn't the Real Gravel Simulator. It is the Real Driving Simulator. :P

i.e. Driving on a road with a car.
 
Real driving simulator with real driving consequences for driving mistakes, such as getting bogged down in a gravel trap 👍 :)

Of course on the London street course you could always go 'off' and through Harrod's display window and lose time while the various goods for sale bounce off your car :lol:
 
Moglet
This is missing from a lot of racing games, hearing stones etc. pinging off the bottom of the car while racing would add a nice little element of realism to the game. Dirt 2 has it (obviously the cars are on gravel but the idea remains) and it really does add a nice edge to the experience.

I remember when Top Gear tested an AMG Black recently (I'm not sure which model) by driving it around London, they could hear stones hitting the bottom of the car, and that was only driving at low speeds. It would be nice to hear it in a racing game.
Click to expand...

You can hear the stones hitting the bottom in the recent Nurb videos when going off track

1:29 and 3:00


It's funny seeing the comments against Mimaximax, about his driving, when the guy won prizes for setting some of the fastest times at the 24 Nurb hour Time Trial comp on this GT5 demo :p
 

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