Greatest Racecar Driver (nominees - ends 3/31/12)

[Earth]

Im aware similar topics exist, but they do not have a point structure like this.

Nominate up to 10 racecar drivers.

You may change your list as often as you want before the deadline. Mark your final choices as FINAL at the top of your post. You can change your FINAL list by editing it before the deadline.

Each of the drivers will receive a certain amount of points based on how you rank them. Points for ranking are as follows:

1. 15 Points
2. 9 Points
3. 8 Points
4. 7 Points
5. 6 Points
6. 5 Points
7. 4 Points
8. 3 Points
9. 2 Points
10. 1 Point

Resuls will be posted in a separate topic


----------------------

My initial List

1. Mario Andretti.

In my opinion, the greatest, most versatile driver the world has ever known.

The variety of his achievements and wins are mind boggling.

• Formula 1 World Champion
• Indycar Champion
• Indianapolis 500
• Daytona 500
• 12 Hours of Sebring
• 24 hours of Daytona
• Finished 2nd overall at the 24 Hours of LeMans

If Andretti had won the 1995 Le Mans 24 hours, he would have won at the highest level of any major motorsport in the Western World

2. AJ Foyt

Like Andretti, Foyt proved to be an incredibly versatile driver.

If I could put Andretti and Foyt as 1-A and 1-B, I would. AJ Foyt had a more successful Indycar career then Andretti, but Mario Andretti's F1 success pushes him ahead. And theres the fact that if his team didnt let him down at LeMans 1995, there would be no argument at all as to who is better.

His talent was so immense, that he once out qualified Jim Clark and Parnelli Jones (who were in midengine cars) using a rear engine dirt car on a paved track.

Its absolutely jaw dropping to see a car that looks like its 20 years older then the others lead them, and even more amazing is the fact the better cars are being driven by world class drivers



His major wins include:

• Indianapolis 500
• Daytona 500
• 24 Hours of Daytona
• 24 Hours of LeMans
• 12 Hours of Sebring

3. Jacky Ickx

Dominated LeMans with 6 overall wins, and enjoyed a successful Formula 1 career

4. Michael Schumacher

Owns most major Formula 1 records, and he did it in the modern era. Despite questions about his personality, the advantage of his cars, and weak teammates whose purpose was to help him win, dominating Formula 1 like he did cannot be overlooked.

5. Jeff Gordon

Perhaps the driver that opened up the door for younger racers to compete at the highest levels. Before there was young guys like Joey Logano or Sebastain Vettel, there was the original young gun, Jeff Gordon. Before him nobody thought drivers in their early 20s or younger could handle racecars of such speed and power. He helped bring NASCAR to the mainstream. He sits 3rd all time in wins, with all of his wins coming in NASCAR's modern era.

6. Ayrton Senna

Perhaps the greatest qualifying driver of all time. His brilliance over one lap is almost unmatched. His death cut short a brilliant career that could have expanded into Indycars (he tested with Penske at a Phoenix oval) or sportscars or something else.

7. Jim Clark

A great career cut short in its prime. Great Formula 1 success, along with an Indianpolis 500 Championship

8. Richard Petty

Richard Petty has set records in NASCAR that will probably never be broken. His 200 wins is a mark that will probably stand forever. His driving style was unique, as he raced the track right next to the wall all the way around. When asked why, he simply said if he crashed it wouldnt hurt as much.

9. Dan Gurney

Wins in Formula 1, overall at Le Mans, and his technical prowess adds him to the list

10. Juan Montoya

The only active driver I know of today that could get into anything and be competitive.

 

[PeterJB]

1. Alain Prost
2. Ayrton Senna
3. Michael Schumacher
4. Sebastien Loeb
5. Niki Lauda
6. Gilles Villeneuve
7. Jim Clark
8. Jackie Stewart
9. Mika Hakkinen
10. Tom Kristensen

 

[cgr-10]

1. Ayrton Senna
2. Mario Andretti
3. A.J Foyt
4. Emerson Fittipaldi
5. Dale Earnhardt
6. Nigel Mansell
7. Alain Prost
8. Jackie Stewart
9. Jim Clark
10. Dario Franchitti

Honourable mentions go to Jimmie Johnson, Dan Wheldon, Stirling Moss, Jochen Rindt, Fangio, Jenson Button and Colin Mcrae.

I'm a firm believer that Schumacher, however good he was, only won his titles because of the car underneath him. Also I think the term 'Greatest' includes the qualities of sportsmanship and honour, this is where he loses out to the likes of Senna.

 

[Liquid]

Also I think the term 'Greatest' includes the qualities of sportsmanship and honour, this is where he loses out to the likes of Senna.

Senna wasn't a complete goody two shoes. He punched Eddie Irvine because he unlapped himself and took out Prost twice, one of those times delibrately. However...

I've tried my best to vary my choices and not just pick favourites so there's no Tim Harvey or Rubens Barrichello here.

FINAL

1. Juan Manuel Fangio

The first driver to really set the standard for multiple success in the early and frankly, dangerous days of Formula racing. The machinery he drove is simply amazing. Five titles with four different teams is still unmatched in F1, and the 1957 German Grand Prix says everything you need to know about Fangio's talents. Still holds the record for starts/wins ratio at 47%.

2. Jim Clark

Widely regarded as the best of his generation, won mulitple titles in multiple disciplines in an era when driver skill was much more important and vital than the car itself. Often regarded by his contemporaries as the greatest.

3. Ayrton Senna

What hasn't been said about Senna already? A supremely talented individual who has hypnotised and influenced at least two generations of people.

4. Jacky Ickx

Master of Le Mans and one of the finest sportscar drivers of all time. Also a proven race winner in Formula One.

5. Andy Rouse

The finest touring car driver of all time in my opinion. 60 outright wins in an era when there were no more than 11 races a year. Mastered Jaguars, Fords and Triumphs and won four outright titles in addition to four more class championships.

6. Jackie Stewart

Having read his autobiography and watched his races over the years, Jackie Stewart was not only a supremely talented driver, but a great man who has given a lot to motorsport safety over the years, having witnessed the deaths of many of his friends, sometimes personally witnessing the events. His success with his small, eponymous Grand Prix team, especially at Monaco 1997 and the 1999 season, is the ancestry and lifeblood of the current Red Bull Racing.

7. Richard Petty

7 time NASCAR champion, a record 200 race wins and a record 7 Daytona 500 wins in monsterous cars such as Plymouth Road Runners and Dodge Chargers. Given the era of his incredible success and the sort of cars he mastered, his legacy should never be forgotten.

8. Mario Andretti

As the OP indicated, an incredibly versatile driver across every major motorsport discipline. Only an outright success at Le Mans eluded him.

9. Carlos Sainz

While Loeb is clearly the most successful and dominant driver, Sainz was an incredibly powerful driver during an era of high competition. Two titles for Toyota, 9 more top 3 finishes for three different manufacturers and 26 wins stretching from 1990-2004 is an astonishing achievement.

10. Peter Brock

The Australian Andy Rouse. An outstanding saloon/touring car driver.

 

[wrcfocuslive]

In my humble opinion single surface circuit racers pale into insignificance compared to all surface timed stage rally drivers,That said no one has mentioned Graham Hill who is the only man to win the triple crown of motor-sport -F! Champ, 24 Hours Of Le Mans and the Indianapolis 500

 

[Earth]

In my humble opinion single surface circuit racers pale into insignificance compared to all surface timed stage rally drivers,That said no one has mentioned Graham Hill who is the only man to win the triple crown of motor-sport -F! Champ, 24 Hours Of Le Mans and the Indianapolis 500

Mario Andretti, A.J. Foyt and others are accomplished dirt track drivers. Also, these drivers won in a variety of vehicles on tarmac, from openwheel cars to sports cars to stock cars

Thanks for the reminder about Graham Hill, I'll put him in my list soon

 

[adam46]

My final list would be:

1: Michael Schumacher
2: Juan Manuel Fangio
3: Jim Clark
4: Ayerton Senna
5: Graham Hill
6: Sebastian Loeb
7: Gilles Villenueve
8: Jackie Stewart
9: Dale Earndhart Sr
10: Sebastian Vettel.


On my reserve list names such as Tom Kristensen, Emerosn Fittapaldi, Niki Lauda, James Hunt, Andy Priaulx, Jimmie Johnson, Jeff Gordon, Nigel Mansell & Colin McRae are accounted for.

 

[lilcat89]

Im surprised no one has mentioned the likes of Moss, Ascari, or Ken Miles. Carroll Shelby should have a mention also. There are way too many truly great drivers to just name 10.

 

[scarslasher]

1. Mario Andretti:
Guy's versatile as frack. Also, he's Italian-American. Two awesome worlds.

2. Jackie Stewart:
Guy's legend. 'nuff said. So is his accent.

3. Ayrton Senna
I obviously didn't know much about him, and sometimes you think higher of a driver after their death, but Senna had brass balls.

4. Michael Schumacher
Seven championships, a previous seat in Ferrari, and MILLIONS of fans can't be wrong.

5. Sebastian Vettel
Cue the hate, and even I hate him a little.. well.. not hate, but hate how he dominates, much like I dislike how Jimmie Johnson dominates NASCAR. But he IS a fantastic driver. Top Gear (among other things) has proven it's not just a good car, he's got loads of awesome driving talent.

6. Dale Earnhardt, Sr.
The Senna of NASCAR in that he'd try to coax you into an accident, leaving it to you to decide "are we going to have this accident or not?". He earned the nickname "The Intimidator" for a reason.

7. Allan McNish
I don't really know about him. There's this X factor that has me hooked on him.

8. AJ Allmendinger
Same as McNish, but he's also starting to shape up to be more like Foyt and Andretti, though he's only just now starting get his feet wet in endurance races.

9. Jeff Gordon
Guy's a great driver, overall likeable guy. Classic name. I think he has several more championships ahead of him if he doesn't quit. He's got talent, just needs to let it loose.

10. Dale Earnhardt, Jr.
Same as Jeff. I mean.. the guy has talent, I think he can open it.. eventually. Just it's ANYTIME when Junior's in the lead and he passed the start/finish on ANY lap, the crowd goes BALLISTIC. Not sure if it's just in my head, but I think he can win some more.

 

[cgr-10]

Senna wasn't a complete goody two shoes. He punched Eddie Irvine because he unlapped himself and took out Prost twice, one of those times delibrately.

I see what you mean, but on the whole I think Senna showed a lot more general compassion and sportsmanship on track. I doubt put in the same situation, MSC would have jumped out of the car to help Erik Comas like Senna did at Spa.

 

[Submerged]

AJ Foyt vid

.... hm, it looks like the best car at that time was actually the dirt car, rather than the 20 year younger cars that the other drivers were driving at that time.

Not subtracting from it, but if you had quite a large vehicle that was pretty fast and powerful/torquey on a oval, it's gonna beat those smaller cars who rely more on power-to-weight ratio of circuit driving.

 

[Earth]

.... hm, it looks like the best car at that time was actually the dirt car, rather than the 20 year younger cars that the other drivers were driving at that time.

Not subtracting from it, but if you had quite a large vehicle that was pretty fast and powerful/torquey on a oval, it's gonna beat those smaller cars who rely more on power-to-weight ratio of circuit driving.

Watch the start again in the video. You'll see what looks like Jim Clark's car out accelerate and beat Foyt to Turn 1.

Also, they are racing at the Milwaukee Mile, which as it name implies is a 1 mile oval. The track has short straights but long, flat, tight turns. A good handling car is important at the Milwaukee Mile, not alot of horsepower.

Of course theres no way AJ Foyt could set the car on pole against the likes of Jim Clark and Parnelli Jones if it wasnt any good at the track, but the feat is still impressive nevertheless.

I've updated my top 10

1. Mario Andretti
2. A.J. Foyt

3. Graham Hill

The only winner of the Triple Crown

4. Jacky Ickx
5. Jim Clark
6. Jeff Gordon

7. Michael Schumacher

Dropped Schumacher after pondering some more about how his teammates signed contracts that stated their purpose was to help him win, even if that meant pulling over for him.

8. Richard Petty
9. Ayrton Senna
10. Dan Gurney

Juan Montoya drops out of my top 10. If he wins a big NASCAR race, the Daytona 500. Southern 500, or Brickyard 400, he'll likely make my top 10

 

[Liquid]

Bump. There are 23 days left, let's get some more votes.

 

[DQuaN]

1, Ayrton Senna
2, Gilles Villeneuve
3, Colin McCrae
4, Jacky Ickx
5, Sebastian Loeb
6, Nigel Mansell
7, Tommi Makkinen
8, Jim Clark
9, Jackie Stewart
10, Fangio

 

[Beeblebrox237]

Final choices, probably
1. Sebastian Loeb
2. Ayrton Senna
3. Juan Manuel Fangio
4. Graham Hill
5. Mario Andretti
6. Jim Clark
7. Michael Schumacher
8. Juha Kankkunen
9. Tommi Mäkinen
10. A.J. Foyt

 

[Luminis]

Tough one...

1.: Juan Manuel Fangio.:
The amount of records he held was awe inspiring, but the fact that he achieved all of that during the 50s is mindblowing, really. Plus, he's still got the best win ratio.

2.: Michael Schumacher
There's a lot that could be said against him, but his achievements speak for themselves...

3.: Tom Kristensen.
He won Le Man eight times. Which is, well, not an easy feat. And since I like Le Mans and endurance racing in general a lot more than F1, I had to have him in my top three.

4.: Alain Prost.
Yeah, I'll be 'that guy' and rate him higher than Senna

5.: Ayrton Senna.
There isn't much left to say, really.

6.: Sebastian Vettel.
Given his age and what little experience he has, the amount of talent he's showing is staggering. He's being pushed, he's got a great car and so on, but that's not all there is to him. He's just incredibly talented. Give him a few more years to gather some more experience and I'd say that it's fairly possible that he's going to dominate F1 like nobody else did before him.

7.: Niki Lauda.
Another tripple F1 champion. I also have mad respect for him because he didn't retire after his horrible crash, but won two of his three titles afterwards.

8.: Jacky Ickx.
Another dominator of Le Mans, so he absolutely has to have a place on a top ten list, I'd say.

9.: Walter Röhrl.
Well, he survived the Group B era and earned quite a few victories in truly terrifying cars. Also, he's coined some funny quotes, in my opinion.

10.: Jackie Stewart.
Another great F1 driver of yesteryear, which I think deserves a place here. Dunno, I just think he's a bit of a legend, isn't he?

 

[Dotini]

Tazio Nuvolari

Dr Ferdinand Porsche called Nuvolari "The greatest driver of the past, the present, and the future.".[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tazio_Nuvolari

I have an objection to Graham Hill being on the top 10. I've seen him race, in person. I followed his career carefully and I worshiped him back in the day. He was perhaps one of the most determined, focused and dedicated drivers ever (as well as successful). But "top 10 great" he was not.

The following cannot be left off the list:

Nuvolari
Fangio
Clark
Villeneuve
Senna
Schumacher
Foyt
Andretti

That doesn't leave room for too many more!
(I'd like to put Vic Elford on the list, but I can't)

I asked my friend John, a motorsports historian, if it were even reasonable to create a top 10 list. Here is his answer:
"I don't see how. Greatness doesn't seem to be an objectively quantifiable substance. Each one of us could come up with a list of our ten favorites, conditioned by our age and by the branch of motorsport that holds our interest. A rally devotee's list is not going to look all that much like a dirt track racing fan's. Someone born in the 1920's is going to come up with drivers completely outside the ken of someone born in the 1980's."



Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[nitrorocks]

1. Jacky Ickx
2. Graham Hill
3. Ayrton Senna
4. Mario Andretti
5. Colin Mcrae
6. Tom Kristensen
7. Jaques Villenueve
8. Jaun Pablo Montoya
9. Derek Bell
10. Dale Earnhardt Sr

This was extremely tought for me!

 

[Earth]

Tazio Nuvolari

Dr Ferdinand Porsche called Nuvolari "The greatest driver of the past, the present, and the future.".[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tazio_Nuvolari

I have an objection to Graham Hill being on the top 10. I've seen him race, in person. I followed his career carefully and I worshiped him back in the day. He was perhaps one of the most determined, focused and dedicated drivers ever (as well as successful). But "top 10 great" he was not.

The following cannot be left off the list:

Nuvolari
Fangio
Clark
Villeneuve
Senna
Schumacher
Foyt
Andretti

That doesn't leave room for too many more!
(I'd like to put Vic Elford on the list, but I can't)



Respectfully submitted,
Steve

By Villeneuve I'm assuming you mean Gilles Villeneuve. How is he worthy of the top 10 but not Graham Hill? What factors combine to create your list?

 

[Dotini]

By Villeneuve I'm assuming you mean Gilles Villeneuve. How is he worthy of the top 10 but not Graham Hill? What factors combine to create your list?

Please see my edit to my original post.

My individual favorites are conditioned by my personal, subjective responses to the bravery, skill and daring of the drivers. Gilles took the whole motorsports world by storm with the forcefulness and aggression of his driving. How do you politely say, "huge balls"?

I greatly admire guys like Prost and Hill who are very smart and skillful in their controlled and calculated way. They remind me of me. But guys like Gilles Villeneuve were the rarest and most precious of all.

Respectfully,
Steve

 

[Ardius]

By Villeneuve I'm assuming you mean Gilles Villeneuve. How is he worthy of the top 10 but not Graham Hill? What factors combine to create your list?

Eh? I agree with Dotini, Graham was great but not "top 10". Both Jacques and Gilles are better candidates. But even so, are you really going to ask for people's top 10 drivers and then criticise each one? Surely you expected people to have different opinions to you?

Anyway, I find it difficult to rank drivers over each other but I'll give it a go. By no means is this a list I created with any factual logic or anything seeing as my main knowledge and interest has been F1, BTCC and WRC. So there are plenty of Indycar, NASCAR, etc drivers who probably should make my top 10 but don't due to my lesser interest in these series.

1. Nigel Mansell
I had to think about this long and carefully. There are many drivers I would put here either for popular reasons (Senna, Schumacher) or for personal bias (D.Hill, J.Villenueve) but I think Nigel represents a mix of the ultimate success along with the raw speed and balls-out racing attitude. He's also a driver I've watched race live. There are drivers like Jim Clark and Fangio who I should probably put here but as I didn't see them live they have no real relevance to me. I don't think its honest to put drivers I never truly appreciated.

2. Ayrton Senna
Inspirational, awesome..legendary. I don't really have to explain this one. I didn't really appreciate him when he was alive because I was far too young. But thanks to the wealth of footage and media on him, its very clear how good he was. Just for his legacy alone he'll forever be on these kinds of lists..almost a martyr of motorsports or something. He died doing what he loved and his tragic story represents motorsport in the eyes of the general public worldwide.

3. Colin McRae
Again, no explanation needed. There's a trend building here with drivers driving the wheels off the car haha.

4. Michael Schumacher
I've got to be honest and admit that he was during the 90s/early 00s the master. Its fading nowadays but it wasn't so long ago that his was synonymous with motorsports. I was once a fan long ago but its hard to continue to be a fan of such dirty behaviour. But even so, his sheer talent and networking, communication and leadership skills certainly qualify under "greatest".

5. Sebastien Loeb
I think most of the rally drivers are "no explanation needed" heh.

6. John Cleland
Angry, sweary, scottish man who chucked Vauxhalls around tiny British circuits. Yup.

7. Jenson Button
I had to put a current F1 driver in. This one is just because JB gives me a great amount of excitement and satisfaction watching races..and he tops it with a great off-track attitude.

8. Jacques Villenueve
Take Eau Rouge flat, no compromises. Fast in everything, but forever flawed mentally. Its actually amazing he won any championships at all but when he is on it, he is unstoppable. It would be sensible to you know, avoid crashing and try to secure full season drives to give himself a good chance. But since when was being sensible any fun? Excitement, controversey and spectacular racing follow this man wherever he goes.

9. Damon Hill
I guess because nice guys can win, because I watched him as a child and because he was in many respects such an underdog. 1997 Hungarian Grand Prix.

10. Carlos Sainz
Because why the hell not?

Ask me this question again in a year and I'll probably give completely different answers. But most of them would be the same, maybe not the same order.

 

[Earth]

Please see my edit to my original post.

My individual favorites are conditioned by my personal, subjective responses to the bravery, skill and daring of the drivers. Gilles took the whole motorsports world by storm with the forcefulness and aggression of his driving. How do you politely say, "huge balls"?

I greatly admire guys like Prost and Hill who are very smart and skillful in their controlled and calculated way. They remind me of me. But guys like Gilles Villeneuve were the rarest and most precious of all.

Respectfully,
Steve

Well, your opinion of greatness differs from mine. I first look at how versatile a driver is, then how thoroughly he dominated his motorsport class. Of course I try and understand what era this driver drove in, and whether or not that diminishes his greatness.

For example, Richard Petty, a NASCAR driver, won 200 races. Second all time has 105 wins, and Jeff Gordon sits 3rd with 85 wins. I see Gordon's 85 wins as more impressive, as he did it in NASCAR's competitive modern era. When looking at a driver like Juan Manuel Fangio, I keep that in mind. In no way am I saying Fangio or Petty had it easy or raced nobodies, but their accomplishments can be compared to Wilt Chamberlain scoring 100 points in a NBA game in 1962.

A driver like Jeff Gordon gets extra credit from me for changing motorsports, in his case opening the door for younger drivers.

I agree a top 10 list would vary alot from one motorsport enthusiast to another. For example, a magazine that covers racing in the United States is likely to list 5 or 6 NASCAR drivers in their top 10 list. Its not surprising for me to see many lists dominated by F1 drivers, as that is the world's premier motorsport and people will list drivers they are familiar with. I sincerely try to experience and follow as much motorsports as I can, so its not too difficult for me to list drivers from different racing series. As with many things in my life, my taste varies alot.

Eh? I agree with Dotini, Graham was great but not "top 10". Both Jacques and Gilles are better candidates. But even so, are you really going to ask for people's top 10 drivers and then criticise each one? Surely you expected people to have different opinions to you?

I think criticize is too harsh of a word. Dotini was very strong in his rejection of Graham Hill, who is in my top 10. Thinking I had missed something, I was simply curious why he passionately believed Hill was not top 10 worthy, but a driver that accomplished as little over his career as Gilles Villeneuve was.

As for Jacques and Gilles being better canidates then Graham Hill, I strongly disagree.

 

[vompatti]

I'm afraid I'll get crucified for this, but I don't see how so many value Colin McRae so high? I understand it when it comes to driver popularity, but he only won one WC, and he had a great tendency to crash. He was win or crash -type of driver. Sure, he was very spectacular but he really didn't deliver results wise like many of his competitors. It just irks me, when I see his name on some list and I don't see Sebastien Loeb from rallying, and after all, to my knowledge Loeb is the only man in the world with 8 consecutive WC's in motorsport.

Even if you take him out of the picture, there is Tommi Mäkinen, who took 4 consecutive WC's when competing against McRae. I also give high value for Juha Kankkunen's 4 WC's, especially because he was the last one to win WC in Group-B, and the first one to win in Group-A. He did these in different teams and he also won 3 of his 4 titles with different brands and he still won races with WRC cars before retiring. It tells me something about his great versatility. I can easily rank Loeb, Mäkinen and Kankkunen above McRae.



What comes to the list itself, I don't feel I'm valid to rank drivers overall. I don't have enough information about US racing series and I'm not very familiar with Le Mans, etc. So my list would be biased towards rallying and F1. Even when saying that, I think that thanks to Loeb's 8 consecutive WC's he should be ranked high in every list (of course, many of these have come when rallying has been a 2 make battle, but still). Rally in itself is very difficult form of racing, because you have to know how to drive on tarmac, gravel and snow, so mastering all those surfaces tells me a lot about a driver. Also Loeb's try-outs in Le Mans and F1 tests hasn't been anything he should be ashamed of either.

 

[Ardius]

Greatest means different things to different people - whats hard to understand about that? Loeb, Schumacher, Kristensen..all some of the most successful drivers ever, winning more than any other. But does winning = great? Not necessarily.

Loeb is one of the all-time best drivers of all time but why does he get rated lower than McRae for me? Because McRae is more exciting, more on the edge. It doesn't matter that he met defeat more than success due to his erratic style - for it is the erratic style I tune in to watch! Many of the drivers I listed in my top 10 are erratic drivers who really should have won more but didn't due to their aggressive driving.

I find it hard to believe people still don't realise that sport isn't all about winning. But equally, I have no problem with people choosing drivers due to winning - its just for my list I'm picking drivers that were great to me - not for some statistic.

I'd also add I tried to stick to drivers I actually watched rather than drivers I've simply been told were great. Seems only fair seeing as I'm never going to create a statistically correct list since I know very little of Indycar and NASCAR's past and I have no reference to what makes champions of those series better than any other. So I stick to what I know and what I enjoyed, who I felt were great drivers in my time.

 

[vompatti]

That's why I did differentiate it to most popular and greatest. Maybe I understand greatest the wrong way, as English is not my native language.

What comes to Loeb for me, it's not only about his winnings. When you watch his onboards when he is on an attack, it's stunning. He is simply from another league, unlike any other driver. I don't think there has been another rally driver who's been able to drive so much on the limit with so few mistakes.

But still, I'm not actually a big fan of Loeb. I simply have tremendous respect towards him and his driving ability. I do wish that someone else would win the WC this year.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Sorry if I start by going a litle off topic here, but I have to explain first my own list.


Greatest Racecar driver has to be a guy that can race more than one type of car, can win in more than one type of car. ANd that will - sadly - exclude many of the last two decades ace drivers, because they all became too "specialized".

Back in the day, however, it wasn't like that and you would find a lot of drivers doing Sports Cars, F1, GT, Rallying, whatever.

I was reminded of this by something I read on what a mostly obscure driver to many is doing these days. Simon Pagenaud, ALMS chamopion, and 2nd placed at Le Mans last year, in the leading 908.



Here his incredible schedule for two weeks:

March 5 - 6
Simon Pagenaud
IndyCar driver
testing at Sebring

March 9-10
Simon Pagenaud
Rally Driver
Rally de Vienne (entry list. check entrant #4)

March 14-17
Simon Pagenaud
Sports Cars Driver
Muscle Milk HPD
Sebring 12 Hours

​

I think this is AWESOME. And is what makes a great Race Car Driver.

So, and now back to topic (but I had to explain this) I'm with Earth here. I can think of greater F1 drivers, of greater Sports Cars Drivers, of Greater whatever-car drivers ... but if I have to pick the greater Race car driver ....

I'll go with Mario Andretti.

 

[Ardius]

That's why I did differentiate it to most popular and greatest. Maybe I understand greatest the wrong way, as English is not my native language.

What comes to Loeb for me, it's not only about his winnings. When you watch his onboards when he is on an attack, it's stunning. He is simply from another league, unlike any other driver. I don't think there has been another rally driver who's been able to drive so much on the limit with so few mistakes.

But still, I'm not actually a big fan of Loeb. I simply have tremendous respect towards him and his driving ability. I do wish that someone else would win the WC this year.

The problem isn't the understanding of greatest or its definition - its how people view it. Its subjective, what one person sees as "great" another person sees as "terrible". There are some common conclusions, and many people see greatest to mean "most successful". But its by no means the only conclusion.

What I find humourous with this thread is that Earth started it as a kind of voting system. A voting system is intended to find a common agreement of an answer - which in itself admits that there is disagreement, that not everyone thinks the same way. Asking questions like this is always going to get a wide range of answers and none are right or wrong. Equally, the resulting answer of the votes is not a right or wrong answer.

If people were just meant to answer with drivers which were highly successful - what is the point in asking at all? Aren't all the answers going to be the same then? The fact that it is a subjective question with subjective answers is why we ask, so to then come along and become baffled by answers is like saying you are baffled that people have different opinions.

I'm all for people asking why I chose who I did and discussing our choices. But don't start acting like people are wrong or silly for their choices. There are no facts here, just different opinions.

 

[vompatti]

I didn't say, or at least I didn't mean that McRae, or any other pick is a wrong pick. It's just a pick I don't understand in front of some other rally drivers. In fact my only question there was, why some value him so high, and the rest was me explaining why I don't view him so high. So I was simply asking reasons behind the decisions, just like you did already on your post (actually I started writing the reply before I read page 2 and it was more of a common wondering about McRae's appreciation in general, but this probably isn't the place to discuss it). Well, that was my opinion and my reasons for it, and I think it should be valued as much as their opinions who do value him high. I just hope some reasons behind the decision, not only a list of names.

I don't fully agree with you on that the answers would be the same for everyone if it would be about the most succesfull ones. It's different to compare, let's say Loeb and Mäkinen than for example Schumacher and K. Rosberg. Some might argue, that Mäkinen was equally great to Loeb, because the level of competition was a lot wider and tougher at his prime, while I doubt any would argue that K. Rosberg was greater F1 Champion than Schumacher.

Actually to me the whole Colin thing would be interesting matter to discuss about, but I think this isn't the place and I should stop directing this thread into a wrong direction.

 

[photonrider]

Photonrider calling Earth. . . .

Tough choices. Strangely, the first choice that came to my mind was Sir Jack Brabham. Could be hearing the voice of my father scream at drivers who drove too fast and invoking the name - or could be the sense I got out of the word ’Greatest’. I seemed to read it at first glance as ’legendary’. Greatest, of course, could be many things, and as so well discussed here, the feelings fans may have about drivers can quite often be not only personal, but be also due to either exclusive, or conversely, expansive, experiences of the sport.

Andretti, Foyt, Fangio, Hill, Mansell, Clark, Petty, Pearson - they all spring to mind when one talks motorsport . . . and then other legends soon follow.

Will be back before the deadline for my ’final answers’.
Obviously it’s just a matter of choice more than judgement.

 

[mister dog]

1: Ayrton Senna
2: Jim Clark
3: Stefan Beloff
4: Fangio
5: Gilles Villeneuve
6: Jacky Ickx
7: Sebastien Loeb
8: Fernando Alonso
9: Jackie Stewart
10: Nigel Mansell