Grey areas of clean racing.

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Well, actually, lol, I'm just about to say I'll agree to disagree and certainly look forward to the next time me and Hugo meet at 130R! :lol:
I have my opinion and Hugo has his, clearly we are not going to change our opinions because really its the way we personally approach the corner and there's rarely ever 1 way around a corner.
 
I also agree that it does show a lot of sportsmanship to let a car through that you know for a fact is a lot faster than you, unless you're fighting for the lead of course. When you really have something on the line to fight for (in professional racing) then it is a different story, but in a game that you play for fun and for a bit of competition, it isn't all that enjoyable getting stuck behind a much slower car and then having no chance to catch up to the leader once you finally get past, simply because you got stuck starting behind them on the grid thanks to luck of the draw. Of course you don't have to let the much faster car by, but it does show a lot of sportsmanship in my opinion. That's also why it would be nice to have qualifying in GT5, as the grid would be sorted much better in terms of drivers pace. In short 5 lap sprint races it's easy to get stuck fighting your way through the field the entire race, never getting the chance to have a true battle with a driver of a similar pace who was out in front all by himself the entire time. That's just my 2 cents though

Disagree. We are not doing hotlaps, were are racing. Learning to overtake is the best part of racing and gives great satisfaction. If people let others through then you may as well stop racing and do time attacks or something. I cant see how it would be considered good sportsmanship (unless it was during a 'qualifying' session when GT5 comes out).
 
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So, like I say, its not a great overtaking place in the end.

That still depends. If you don't want the drivers behind you to close the gap, you better wait with overtaking until the start/finish straight.
However, I experience 130R a great place to overtake if you're driving a car that has more cornering speed than straight line oompf. If the driver you're overtaking loses too much speed in 130R, he mostly can't counter on the S/F straight. This means you can create a nice gap through the esses.

You're right if you say it's not a great overtaking place if you don't feel you have the car completely under control. The thing is I don't want people to discourage to overtake in 130R.
One of my biggest frustrations online are people that abort passes when they shouldn't have to. It's almost impossible to anticipate on and with the strange collision physics of GT5P it results in absolute mayhem.
 
Yeah, thats a good point, certain cars are better than others and certainly going down to sub-PP550 levels there shouldn't be too much of a problem.

I don't feel too many people are avoiding making passes when they can though, I personally avoid such passes just because I don't have the confidence in either my driving nor my competitor to pull it off and as there are plenty of better places to overtake I'm perfectly happy waiting. Same goes vice versa, I don't have the confidence to keep on the outside line without running wide or not giving enough space.
I used to have a similar issue around Dunlop, but I got the hang of that, perhaps a little practice would help.
 
I feel the need to clarify this issue:


THIS is how it's done fellas...👍 Notice how both Villenueve and Arnoux were always aware of what was going on around them, and were able to react quickly to any move a driver might make, always giving the neccesary room to prevent an accident. This is one thing that I notice a lot of drivers even here on GTP seem to lack unfortunately :indiff: But of course you don't want to be doing this type of stuff if there is a noticeable amount of lag.


Very nice video timeattck07gt. 👍

It also shows some sportmanship on others getting out of the way for the faster on-coming cars. 💡

Thanks...it was the first thing to come to mind when I saw petter mo's post :lol: I'll never forget such ballsy, clean, respectful racing 👍

I also agree that it does show a lot of sportsmanship to let a car through that you know for a fact is a lot faster than you, unless you're fighting for the lead of course. When you really have something on the line to fight for (in professional racing) then it is a different story, but in a game that you play for fun and for a bit of competition, it isn't all that enjoyable getting stuck behind a much slower car and then having no chance to catch up to the leader once you finally get past, simply because you got stuck starting behind them on the grid thanks to luck of the draw. Of course you don't have to let the much faster car by, but it does show a lot of sportsmanship in my opinion. That's also why it would be nice to have qualifying in GT5, as the grid would be sorted much better in terms of drivers pace. In short 5 lap sprint races it's easy to get stuck fighting your way through the field the entire race, never getting the chance to have a true battle with a driver of a similar pace who was out in front all by himself the entire time. That's just my 2 cents though 👍



We are all realising that the cars that slow down in this video are being lapped?
Just before we all go overboard arguing about essentially abolishing overtaking or something lol.

Woops, sorry about the double-post.
 
We're almost on the same frequency now, Ardius :sly:

I'm off for a few passes at 130R :D
 
If you get stuck behind a much slower car, you simply need to work on your racing and overtaking skills in my opinion. Personally the fun would wear thin quickly if people make way because they suspect I'm faster. Fair interaction with other drivers is what makes the game for me, whether they are faster or slower than me. At Suzuka I've made successful passes at every corner on both the in- as the outside. I just love to be forced to become creative when somebody is making it difficult to get overtaken. If that blows the opportunity to catch the leader(s), so be it. The journey to the finish line is more important than the winning itself.

Ofcourse drivers are free to let others pass, when they don't feel comfortable with the pressure or when they think the faster driver can tow them to the front. Only as a race admin I don't want people to think it's bad sportsmanship if they held up another driver. It's more a lack of self respect if you let every faster driver pass. You're not going to learn much from that either. The more interaction you have with other drivers, the more you learn from it 👍

I don't think it is at all wrong NOT to let a MUCH (4-5 seconds a lap) faster driver through. I just think it shows EXCEPTIONAL sportsmanship and respect when you let the much faster driver through so he can stay within a reasonable distance of the guy who is in the lead, pulling away quite quickly say just one car ahead. The only time one might do so is if they had prior knowledge of the relative speed of both drivers, otherwise you're just being overly courteous (considering this is racing) by letting the driver through simply because they are catching up quickly.

I know if I had randomly started in 2nd at Suzuka and held that spot through T1 and had a driver in front of me who I KNEW was 3 seconds a lap faster and a driver behind me who was 3 seconds a lap faster, I would politely let them by so they can go have a enjoyable battle between themselves, instead of holding up the guy behind simply because I was lucky enough to start ahead of him. I'd figure that they're going to get by sooner or later, so I might as well show the respect and let them go through so they can enjoy their 10 minute race with a driver of similar pace...which may be a rare occasion for them. That's just me and what I would do though 👍 Of course qualifying would completely nullify such a problem though :sick:

It's good sportsmanship because you're acknowledging that you could potentially cost the faster driver 2 seconds in just one sector, which could be the difference in him having an epic scrap with the leader of similar pace, or just doing the remainder of the race by his lonesome (once he does get past), as the leader has already built up a nice comfortable margin that cannot be knocked down much at all. Again, that's just my opinion.

Hope I made some sense...it's a bit hard trying to illustrate in words the situation that I'm specifically talking about. 💡

I feel the need to clarify this issue:


We are all realising that the cars that slow down in this video are being lapped?
Just before we all go overboard arguing about essentially abolishing overtaking or something lol.

Woops, sorry about the double-post.

Yea, I realize that the cars that slow down are being lapped 👍 A driver that let them pass like that in F1, IF it were for position, would be hung of course :lol: I just made a response to Nicksfix generalized statement when it came to letting the faster car through.
 
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I don't think it is at all wrong NOT to let a MUCH (4-5 seconds a lap) faster driver through. I just think it shows EXCEPTIONAL sportsmanship and respect when you let the much faster driver through so he can stay within a reasonable distance of the guy who is in the lead, pulling away quite quickly say just one car ahead. The only time one might do so is if they had prior knowledge of the relative speed of both drivers, otherwise you're just being overly courteous (considering this is racing) by letting the driver through simply because they are catching up quickly.

I know if I had randomly started in 2nd at Suzuka and held that spot through T1 and had a driver in front of me who I KNEW was 3 seconds a lap faster and a driver behind me who was 3 seconds a lap faster, I would politely let them by so they can go have a enjoyable battle between themselves, instead of holding up the guy behind simply because I was lucky enough to start ahead of him. I'd figure that they're going to get by sooner or later, so I might as well show the respect and let them go through so they can enjoy their 10 minute race with a driver of similar pace...which may be a rare occasion for them. That's just me and what I would do though

If someone is 3 seconds quicker per lap than me then i'd expect them to be able to pass easily enought without me totally whimping out. Even hotlap hotshots have some degree of racecraft id imagine. I'm there to race (beit with slower or faster drivers). I dont tend to use too much defensive driving in the opening lap or two, so anyone who is alot quicker can usually get by just fine. I'd never consider just letting someone through though, and dont consider it good sportmanship. What if there is another fast guy way back in the grid, and by letting someone through you may be depriving the fast guys further back on the grid a chance to race the guy you simply let through. Where do you draw the line? Let one guy through, two ... three?

I know when i'm on the rear of the grid and i see a driver who i have close races with further up on the grid i love the thrill of the chase. if he is getting held up by a slower driver i know i can catch up if i drive well. We may then end up battling for a lower finishing place, but we would be battling. Its what 'racing' is all about. Would not get that if the someone simply let him through and by doing so ruined my chances.

Not trying to be arguementative, but i'd hate to see lots of drivers simply letting guys through just bacause they may be faster. Its not racing imho.
 
I don't think it is at all wrong NOT to let a MUCH (4-5 seconds a lap) faster driver through. I just think it shows EXCEPTIONAL sportsmanship and respect when you let the much faster driver through so he can stay within a reasonable distance of the guy who is in the lead, pulling away quite quickly say just one car ahead. The only time one might do so is if they had prior knowledge of the relative speed of both drivers, otherwise you're just being overly courteous (considering this is racing) by letting the driver through simply because they are catching up quickly.

I know if I had randomly started in 2nd at Suzuka and held that spot through T1 and had a driver in front of me who I KNEW was 3 seconds a lap faster and a driver behind me who was 3 seconds a lap faster, I would politely let them by so they can go have a enjoyable battle between themselves, instead of holding up the guy behind simply because I was lucky enough to start ahead of him. I'd figure that they're going to get by sooner or later, so I might as well show the respect and let them go through so they can enjoy their 10 minute race with a driver of similar pace...which may be a rare occasion for them. That's just me and what I would do though 👍 Of course qualifying would completely nullify such a problem though :sick:

It's good sportsmanship because you're acknowledging that you could potentially cost the faster driver 2 seconds in just one sector, which could be the difference in him having an epic scrap with the leader of similar pace, or just doing the remainder of the race by his lonesome (once he does get past), as the leader has already built up a nice comfortable margin that cannot be knocked down much at all. Again, that's just my opinion.

Hope I made some sense...it's a bit hard trying to illustrate in words the situation that I'm specifically talking about. 💡

Thats all well and good but I'd hate this to become a common rule and for the slower drivers to be pushed aside as if the faster driver has some "right" to race people further ahead. This is not the way to go and you should just accept that you have to get past the slower driver through your own skill.

I know in my case I cannot maintain a pace lap after lap to keep up with the fastest drivers, so my only chance of finishing well is from my own skill holding, defending and battling for my position. What you are suggesting essentially takes away all that and makes me look like a complete douche - is that sportsmanship? No, I think its more borderline elitism honestly.

In real life this happens, why should it be any different here? Your ability to get past a slower driver is part of racing and is one of the key parts to making a good driver from both sides - attacking and defending. What you are suggesting takes away all this and makes it essentially a 2 player race with some obstacles in the way - I do not like to be thought of as an obstacle, I'd like to be seen as another racer who has his own right to defend his position regardless how fast I am relative to you and your "true" opponent.

You seem to think "holding up", in other words, defending a position is not fun at all and takes away from racing - well I can tell you that is the main component of racing! Regardless how unfair the starting positions are in rolling starts at the moment, I'd like to be able to have the chance to hold you off rather than being tagged as unsporting just because you feel I impeded your "true" battle.
 
Thats all well and good but I'd hate this to become a common rule and for the slower drivers to be pushed aside as if the faster driver has some "right" to race people further ahead. This is not the way to go and you should just accept that you have to get past the slower driver through your own skill.

I'm not saying that a driver has to let a faster driver through, nor is it wrong at all not let them through. I was just saying that it shows exceptional sportsmanship and RESPECT by letting a much faster driver through so he can battle with the faster car ahead, instead of holding him up for just long enough to where he gets stuck doing the remaing 4 laps of the race all by himself...that's not necessarily a rule that anyone has to go by though. You're just making it sound like it is some rule that I'm trying to bring down on everyone. That's not at all the case though. It is just what I would do if I was in that particular situation, as I would feel that there is no reason for me to hold up the much faster driver for just long enough so that he has no chance of enjoying any type of racing situation once he gets past and flies off into the distance. I don't believe the slower driver should just pull over and let them through though. They should only yield a bit more than usual if the faster driver gets a nice run on them. By doing so you're accepting who the much faster driver is, instead of being stubborn by driving overly defensive trying to maintain your position thanks to nice starting grid position you were handed. For me it is a matter of picking and choosing my battles...trying to fight off a car (for half a lap) that is 4 seconds a lap faster is rather pointless to me, when it's at the cost of him enjoying his own race when he does get past a half lap later. I'm just being a considerate person by doing so...nothing wrong with that.

I know in my case I cannot maintain a pace lap after lap to keep up with the fastest drivers, so my only chance of finishing well is from my own skill holding, defending and battling for my position. What you are suggesting essentially takes away all that and makes me look like a complete douche - is that sportsmanship? No, I think its more borderline elitism honestly.


In real life this happens, why should it be any different here? Your ability to get past a slower driver is part of racing and is one of the key parts to making a good driver from both sides - attacking and defending. What you are suggesting takes away all this and makes it essentially a 2 player race with some obstacles in the way - I do not like to be thought of as an obstacle, I'd like to be seen as another racer who has his own right to defend his position regardless how fast I am relative to you and your "true" opponent.

This happens in real life because there is a lot more on the line of course. This is a game that most of us play for fun. I always try and allow all the other drivers to have a enjoyable experience as well, instead of holding people up that are way beyond my caliber simply because I was lucky enough to have a better starting grid position than them.

You seem to think "holding up", in other words, defending a position is not fun at all and takes away from racing - well I can tell you that is the main component of racing! Regardless how unfair the starting positions are in rolling starts at the moment, I'd like to be able to have the chance to hold you off rather than being tagged as unsporting just because you feel I impeded your "true" battle.

I never said it's unsporting NOT to let the faster driver through , you're simply putting words in my mouth now because you seemed to take offense to what I said. Fighting for position is a fun part of online racing, I just don't think it is necessary when you know that the MUCH faster car behind will inevitably pass you within a lap and all you're doing is holding him off for just long enough to where, when he does finally get past, he will be doing boring hot laps for the rest of the race because the leader had pulled out a large enough lead.

Again, this is just my opinion and what I would do in such a situation. No need to take offense or try and correct what I would do and the way I go about my racing 👍
 
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Its does not show exceptional sportmanship and respect at all. Its not what i would call racing either. Your ideas of what racing is a bit, well, errr ......
 
I'm not saying that a driver has to let a faster driver through, nor is it wrong at all not let them through. I was just saying that it shows exceptional sportsmanship and RESPECT by letting a much faster driver through so he can battle with the faster car ahead, instead of holding him up for just long enough to where he gets stuck doing the remaing 4 laps of the race all by himself...that's not necessarily a rule that anyone has to go by though. You're just making it sound like it is some rule that I'm trying to bring down on everyone. That's not at all the case though. It is just what I would do if I was in that particular situation, as I would feel that there is no reason for me to hold up the much faster driver for just long enough so that he has no chance of enjoying any type of racing situation once he gets past and flies off into the distance. I don't believe the slower driver should just pull over and let them through though. They should only yield a bit more than usual if the faster driver gets a nice run on them. By doing so you're accepting who the much faster driver is, instead of being stubborn by driving overly defensive trying to maintain your position thanks to nice starting grid position you were handed. For me it is a matter of picking and choosing my battles...trying to fight off a car (for half a lap) that is 4 seconds a lap faster is rather pointless to me, when it's at the cost of him enjoying his own race when he does get past a half lap later. I'm just being a considerate person by doing so...nothing wrong with that.

This happens in real life because there is a lot more on the line of course. This is a game that most of us play for fun. I always try and allow all the other drivers to have a enjoyable experience as well, instead of holding people up that are way beyond my caliber simply because I was lucky enough to have a better starting grid position than them.

I never said it's unsporting NOT to let the faster driver through , you're simply putting words in my mouth now because you seemed to take offense to what I said. Fighting for position is a fun part of online racing, I just don't think it is necessary when you know that the MUCH faster car behind will inevitably pass you within a lap and all you're doing is holding him off for just long enough to where, when he does finally get past, he will be doing boring hot laps for the rest of the race because the leader had pulled out a large enough lead.

Again, this is just my opinion and what I would do in such a situation. No need to take offense or try and correct what I would do and the way I go about my racing 👍

I have issue with the way you seem to think about this, I know you are not saying it is unsporting, but you certainly come across as thinking that way when you call battling a car in front "unecessary" just because you feel the driver in front isn't as fast as the driver even further in front.

I understand what you are talking about and why, but I have trouble with the thinking behind it and what it may lead to later if everyone thought the same way.
The main reason I have a problem is because you talk of hypothetical battles assuming the driver further in front is actually faster or as fast as you - how can you know this? Thus - how can you judge the car you are being impeded by isn't the real battle? It works too much by assumption in my opinion.

Who's to say if people did what you suggest that it wouldn't turn ugly and any driver who doesn't pull over is called unsporting and disrespectful, hm? This is the kind of thing I don't want to see and I think it would be likely to happen as many people do take such "un-written codes" too seriously turning them into rules.

The general rule for me would be that every car in front is my next rival, not necessarily the one further in front, you say real life has more on the line, then if thats the case, why can't you be satisfied with having fun just with the driver in front rather than the only the driver you feel is at your level?

I would personally see it as a sign of great weakness in someone to just let every person they felt was faster past, ok, if you're driving a car you're unfamiliar with or you don't feel confident battling cleanly then thats fine, but giving away positions just because the driver behind is better isn't what racing is about.

Lastly, I'd like to ask, how would a slower driver know you are battling a car further forward? To him its just another driver catching him and he will want to hold his position, and he will also be intending to catch the car ahead too.

I realise its your opinion and you are not saying everyone should do this, but I am worried about the implications of such suggestions and I disagree completely with the idea that slower drivers should be at all expected or appreciated to move over other than in lapping situations or when the slower driver doesn't feel up to defending for whatever reason.
 
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I always try to look at it as the car directly in front and behind me as my race,if a car is that much faster than me they should have no problem in passing me cleanly. I dont buy into the letting someone pass,no I will not get in your way or block but if your faster just pass its pretty easy.
 
I always try to look at it as the car directly in front and behind me as my race,if a car is that much faster than me they should have no problem in passing me cleanly. I dont buy into the letting someone pass,no I will not get in your way or block but if your faster just pass its pretty easy.


I agree with DaddyVDUB. You had better figure how to get by, because i'm not pullingover!When there is someone slower in front, i ride there bumper untill they make a mistake or there is a straightaway!
 
I agree with DaddyVDUB. You had better figure how to get by, because i'm not pullingover!When there is someone slower in front, i ride there bumper untill they make a mistake or there is a straightaway!

AMEN Someone who realizes that you can follow till you get to an overtaking straight.👍 THANKS Flash
 
If someone is 3 seconds quicker per lap than me then i'd expect them to be able to pass easily enought without me totally whimping out. Even hotlap hotshots have some degree of racecraft id imagine. I'm there to race (beit with slower or faster drivers). I dont tend to use too much defensive driving in the opening lap or two, so anyone who is alot quicker can usually get by just fine. I'd never consider just letting someone through though, and dont consider it good sportmanship. What if there is another fast guy way back in the grid, and by letting someone through you may be depriving the fast guys further back on the grid a chance to race the guy you simply let through. Where do you draw the line? Let one guy through, two ... three?

I know when i'm on the rear of the grid and i see a driver who i have close races with further up on the grid i love the thrill of the chase. if he is getting held up by a slower driver i know i can catch up if i drive well. We may then end up battling for a lower finishing place, but we would be battling. Its what 'racing' is all about. Would not get that if the someone simply let him through and by doing so ruined my chances.

Not trying to be arguementative, but i'd hate to see lots of drivers simply letting guys through just bacause they may be faster. Its not racing imho.

i dont think anyone has said that slower driver should just let faster driver pass .. i think we have said that if faster drivers are on your tail you cant just close the door when a faster driver comes up on your side into a corner.
you have to give them room so you dont colide to each other..
 
The PP system applied in GT5P should allow all cars to be relatively the same speed, per lap anyways. But as most have seen, with different tires on every car, some cars have strengths in one part of a track and show weakness in other parts. So when my car is sucking in the turns ,but blistering down the straights, should I let a guy with a light car and race tires threw on the turns? I'd hope not! A race is determined by car setup, driver ability, and starting grid position. We only have control of 2 said determining factors. It often comes down to aggression and willingness to make the other guys race not so pleasureable. Same holds true in real life racing. I personally hate non-tire specific races for this reason, and I usually adjust my tune to suit what everyone else is running as opposed to what I want to run. This makes for a happier and more competitive race. Also, letting someone by if up to the drivers discretion as TimeAttack said.

I asked about Turn 2 at HSR because I was the recipient of the smashing, thanks to FatLeadFoot, and I was called an Idiot! Thought I would throw that out there for anyone questioning who, or what is clean driving.
 
I don't think it is at all wrong NOT to let a MUCH (4-5 seconds a lap) faster driver through. I just think it shows EXCEPTIONAL sportsmanship and respect when you let the much faster driver through so he can stay within a reasonable distance of the guy who is in the lead, pulling away quite quickly say just one car ahead. The only time one might do so is if they had prior knowledge of the relative speed of both drivers, otherwise you're just being overly courteous (considering this is racing) by letting the driver through simply because they are catching up quickly.

In addition to the points Ardius and Rypien made:

The problem is that 99% of the drivers wants to be seen as a gentleman on the track. If making way for faster people becomes accepted as exceptional sportsmanship, drivers might start to feel obliged to let faster drivers trough.
Still, letting faster drivers through is more a sign of weakness or sucking up to them, than a display of exceptional sportsmanship. Racing is not about giving presents. You should only let people pass in the situations the rules prescribe. In all the other situations it's up to the faster driver to make the pass himself. Closing the gap is always easier than making the pass. If you can't pass the guy that is seconds a lap slower, you certain ain't gonna pass the fast driver at the front of the field.

i dont think anyone has said that slower driver should just let faster driver pass .. i think we have said that if faster drivers are on your tail you cant just close the door when a faster driver comes up on your side into a corner.
you have to give them room so you dont colide to each other..

You've misunderstood. Timeattack did suggest that a much slower driver should let the faster driver pass.
Also, please make use of capitals and punctuation marks in your future posts.
 
It's the DRIVERS DISCRETION. TimeAttack uses his discretion more than you. So what? He did write if you are new to a track or car it is right for you to let someone by, can anyone argue that? I wouldnt, but I would argue thats whats freerun is for. This thread has gotten to be repetitive, over and over... and over.
Can someone say something new?
 
If anyone thinks they have the right to be let through whether it be because they are quicker or for any other reason then they have issues imo!

If someone wants to improve their PB for a lap or for a race time do it offline imo!

If someone wants to race with a guy who is some distance in front, then they should ask themselves why the other guy/gal didn't wait imo!

There is no grey area in this, it's more about a persons compliance with the OLR that should be of concern imo!

It should never come to punting someone off either, if they are a bit slower or a lot slower on the track, live with it, enjoy it for what it is imo!


I always try to look at it as the car directly in front and behind me as my race,if a car is that much faster than me they should have no problem in passing me cleanly.

There isn't another way to look at VDUB, well put imo!

D.
 
First of all, everything I've been saying is just my opinion as I've stated several times already. If you guys don't agree that's perfectly fine! Constantly telling me that my opinions and actions are wrong is honestly quite irritating, and makes you guys sound a bit self-righteous :indiff:

I guess I'm just the more considerate driver in such a position. If I started 2nd in a 3 car grid along two MUCH faster drivers (4 seconds a lap) of a similar caliber, I PERSONALLY would let the car behind through as soon as I'd felt he had gotten the better of me. I don't find the need to have to fight or drive defensive (for my OWN enjoyment) with a much faster driver, for just long enough to where I ruin his chances of having a nice battle with the car ahead. Especially when I consider that the only reason I would be having that duel with the faster car behind to begin with would simply be due to the lottery of the grid position.

IMO, I would be showing respect and consideration by letting the faster driver go through at the right moment, as I'd be acknowledging that I shouldn't have been starting in front of him to begin with, as in real racing the faster drivers start in the front due to being faster in qualifying. Unfortunately, that's not the case in the game, so that's why I would do such a thing out of consideration, instead of being a pace car for just long enough to where the remainder of his race is uneventful once he gets past. This is just what I would do in such a situation though. I don't think I should be scorned or looked down upon for doing so, especially when I'm not trying to spread such etiquette around as being the norm or what one must do :nervous:
 
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The PP system applied in GT5P should allow all cars to be relatively the same speed, per lap anyways. But as most have seen, with different tires on every car, some cars have strengths in one part of a track and show weakness in other parts. So when my car is sucking in the turns ,but blistering down the straights, should I let a guy with a light car and race tires threw on the turns? I'd hope not! A race is determined by car setup, driver ability, and starting grid position. We only have control of 2 said determining factors. It often comes down to aggression and willingness to make the other guys race not so pleasureable. Same holds true in real life racing. I personally hate non-tire specific races for this reason, and I usually adjust my tune to suit what everyone else is running as opposed to what I want to run. This makes for a happier and more competitive race. Also, letting someone by if up to the drivers discretion as TimeAttack said.

I asked about Turn 2 at HSR because I was the recipient of the smashing, thanks to FatLeadFoot, and I was called an Idiot! Thought I would throw that out there for anyone questioning who, or what is clean driving.

When a car is closing rapidly in your rear-view mirror and it's suddenly is not there anymore, where do you think it is? It's not on top of your roof EERSYEARS and it most likely didn't magically disappear from the track. The difference between a good driver and a not so good driver on-line is knowing where each car is around you. A good driver will assume that car is next to them and hold their line leaving room for the unseen car. A not so good driver will drive like no one is there because he doesn't see them. Starting to get the picture EERS4YEARS??

I race with some of the fastest drivers in North America and never experience incidents such as the one we had the other night. Side by side racing down straights, through corners and no contact. You come down into my line because you obviously have no track awareness and you call that "smashing"? Another thing is when I'm getting beat by margin of 18 seconds for a 10 lap race (like I whooped you), personally I yield to the faster car. Track awareness EER4YEARS.

Finally, the term I used above describing you was after this from you....

"thanks for ruining my great night of clean racing. i'll ruin yours another night. then another night and maybe 1 more after that" ( :dunce: )

You obviously have no clue as witnessed by your other recent posts here and your ontrack behavior. You race like you post - confrontational. I think you're best suited running beginner and intermediate events until you learn how to handle yourself, both on and off the track. You can't piss like a puppy if you wan't to hang with the big dogs. ;)
 
Not in F1, BTCC, Super GT, Le Mans, etc is there a rule that says you are not allowed to race or defend your position from a car that you know is faster than you. Adding a rule like that would be silly. It should be left up to driver if 5th or 10th position is worth defending.

Anyways, what should I do if there are two cars in front of me fighting it out, and one of the the driver takes the other out... of course the guilty driver should wait for the victim driver to pass him, but what if this guilty driver decides to come to nearly a complete stop in the racing line, and I end up rear ending him/her hard? I think I should be able to continue since the guilty driver didn't follow the rule that says you should pull off the racing when you're gonna wait for somebody. This rule should be amended to say the guilty drive should continue at a fast pace until he can get to a straight, and then slow down there off the racing line. Don't slow down in the corners or corner exits period.

Now, what if you're following close, but clean, and the driver(s) in front you spins out on his own, and you end up hitting him/her because you didn't have enough room to avoid the collision? Should you wait or continue?
 
I asked about Turn 2 at HSR because I was the recipient of the smashing, thanks to FatLeadFoot, and I was called an Idiot!

I have been in races with FatLeadFoot,and he is respectable 👍. Sat.night I was in a race with him,he was clean and fast.Only 1 time did anything ever happen concerning him,and I truly believe it was incidental.We were in the "S" at HSR,his NSX got a bit twitchy,his rear end slid out a bit,clipped the front of my Lotus which caused me to go off track,ultimately putting me into the wall and taking a penalty.It was by no stretch of the matter that he intentionally did this,small things like this can and do happen.EERS4YEARS,you need to realize that things like this happen and not everybody out there is an idiot as you like to say. Please examine your driving style.The other night I intentionally stayed behind you for a reason, and 1 reason only.To examine your driving style.Hmmmmmmmm coming out of tunnel you like to go above the white line (completely off track) and ride it all the way to the wall,which you still ride like it's nobody's business.Turn 2,well you've mastered that wall as well.Sorry,but you are not the kind of guy that exactly rates up there as a good clean racer in my book 👎.


This thread has gotten to be repetitive, overand over... and over.Can someone say something new?

Yes,quit coming in here and bashing on the good guys.
 
As VDUB said, you should really only pass when you know you have a clean shot and there aren't gonna be any complications. Otherwise, it's going to mess up both drivers involved (aka Kubica and Vettel at Melbourne) and ruin both drivers' day.
 
I have been in races with FatLeadFoot,and he is respectable 👍. Sat.night I was in a race with him,he was clean and fast.Only 1 time did anything ever happen concerning him,and I truly believe it was incidental.

Yes,quit coming in here and bashing on the good guys.

I tried to look for you on my "players met" list so I could send a message for that but your tag was not there. So please accept my apology Nicksfix for the contact. It definitely wasn't intentional.

Yeah, I knew the "poster of the month" would be on here bashing me ASAP because I immediately put him on my block list.
 
Not in F1, BTCC, Super GT, Le Mans, etc is there a rule that says you are not allowed to race or defend your position from a car that you know is faster than you. Adding a rule like that would be silly. It should be left up to driver if 5th or 10th position is worth defending.

Anyways, what should I do if there are two cars in front of me fighting it out, and one of the the driver takes the other out... of course the guilty driver should wait for the victim driver to pass him, but what if this guilty driver decides to come to nearly a complete stop in the racing line, and I end up rear ending him/her hard? I think I should be able to continue since the guilty driver didn't follow the rule that says you should pull off the racing when you're gonna wait for somebody. This rule should be amended to say the guilty drive should continue at a fast pace until he can get to a straight, and then slow down there off the racing line. Don't slow down in the corners or corner exits period.

Now, what if you're following close, but clean, and the driver(s) in front you spins out on his own, and you end up hitting him/her because you didn't have enough room to avoid the collision? Should you wait or continue?

I agree, people should be penalised or at least warned against waiting in stupid places or at stupid times.

If a driver spins in front of me and I hit them despite trying to avoid, then its not my responsibility to wait for them. Generally, I sometimes do, depends on whether I was enjoying racing them or not, but I wouldn't say there is any need to as it was totally not your fault.
Same goes for idiots slamming the brakes and waiting on the racing line - they should know better than that.
 
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