GT producer - Damage still the same.

[Aquarelle]

Personally I'm not too bothered, I would however like there to be punishments for lowering cars too much on certain tracks (Taking a 'slammed' car to Nurburgring for instance) and have engine/transmission damage simulated properly.

I think mechanical damage for contact is fine as it is - it punishes you well for crashes when set to heavy. I don't really go out of my way to test this however so maybe someone will tell me how horrifically wrong I am.

Visual damage though? I'm honestly not particularly bothered. The damage in Forza for example looks awful and frankly I'd rather those resources be put elsewhere.

In summary, I'm behind punishments for poor driving/shifting all the way! Visual damage unless done properly without shortcuts would be nice but frankly it's not particularly important to me.

 

[dice1998]

I mention did that GT is 60fps and F1 30fps, someone else added that f1 has some major drops nothing more...
BTW isn't 360deg a ring/circle?

I guess it's too hard for you to type out "Xbox".

 

[Coiler]

I was mainly pointing out that if the damage model remains untouched then thats a thumbs down in my opinion. When it gets closer to the release of the game, then I'll be able to make my judgement.

GT has sold alot of copy's, that much is true, but that doesnt automatically mean that its better then every other game just because it sold more. Also, it doesnt mean that people dont prefer a nother game over GT. Looking at pCars, it seems like it would blow GT away, all that is is a mater of opinion though, but until its released theres no way I can compare the two.

Remember all we know about pCARS is from a Mid-High End PC side , when we will get those two on one system then we can make something out of it.

Xbox360 is bit too long

 

[Coiler]

delete please

 

[dice1998]

Remember all we know about pCARS is from a Mid-High End PC side , when we will get those two on one system then we can make something out of it.

It's going to be released on the PS4.

Xbox360 is bit too long

Xbox. not Xbox 360 or "that other console".

Just. Plain. Xbox.

 

[ImaRobot]

Remember all we know about pCARS is from a Mid-High End PC side , when we will get those two on one system then we can make something out of it.

Obviously. Thats why I said I cant compare it until it comes out.

 

[dr_slump]

Pcars has more delays than GT ever had.

What is it now? Summer 2014?

 

[GTRACER1998]

What happened to talking about damage?

 

[Jawehawk]

To those saying that GT6 should have visual damage similiar to the likes of Project Cars, please take a few seconds to consider the amount of time they'd have to spend to model it for each and every car. Project cars has what? 50-60 cars total when it releases? Compare that to the 300-500 (guissing) Premium cars of GT6. It's insanely difficult to do realistic visual damage.

Personally, I don't care much for the visual damage. I do however thing PD needs to make huge improvements on the mechanical side. I prefere driving with full damage enabled, and the mechanical aspect of GT5 is rubbish. You should be able to obtain damage to everything from transmission, engine, aero, suspension and wheels etc. The time it takes to fix whatever damage you've obtained, should vary depending on the damage taken. And of course you should be able to be taken completely out of a race if you crash hard enough.

These things add so much to realistic races. Espicially if we're talking endurance races.

 

[gtone339]

What happened to this kind of damage promised for GT5?

1:35

 

[Exorcet]

I think mechanical damage for contact is fine as it is - it punishes you well for crashes when set to heavy. I don't really go out of my way to test this however so maybe someone will tell me how horrifically wrong I am.

You don't need to even see heavy damage to find its limitations. Over a race many hours long, a 30 second pit stop is trivial. Even in shorter races, heavy damage is far too forgiving.

Here is me locking up trying to avoid contact very early in a 20 lap race. Plowed right into a wall. I still came in only one lap behind the leader. My car was still able to drive over 100 mph easy and if I had not limited myself to driving at 50 or so mph to try and replicate a more realistic damage effect, I possibly could have taken a place higher. I should have either been knocked out or probably came in dead last, barring a second crash as severe as mine.

Damage is basically tuned for 3-7 lap "for fun" races and ignores anything longer or more serious, which is a real shame for league racers or people who just want full simulation. I like double digit laps at the least to have some semblance of being in a race, and the consequences of damage to me and whoever else is part of that race experience.

Also on top of all that, not only is heavy damage fairly light and inconsequential, but it's not very accurate or precise. You either get engine or suspension damage with some fixed level of hp loss or misalignment. It ignores most of the car. This would then go back to realistic repair times because how long you're in the pits will depend on what's damaged.

Mechanical damage is in a far worse state than visual damage basically.

 

[Aquarelle]

You don't need to even see heavy damage to find its limitations. Over a race many hours long, a 30 second pit stop is trivial. Even in shorter races, heavy damage is far too forgiving.

Here is me locking up trying to avoid contact very early in a 20 lap race. Plowed right into a wall. I still came in only one lap behind the leader. My car was still able to drive over 100 mph easy and if I had not limited myself to driving at 50 or so mph to try and replicate a more realistic damage effect, I possibly could have taken a place higher. I should have either been knocked out or probably came in dead last, barring a second crash as severe as mine.

Damage is basically tuned for 3-7 lap "for fun" races and ignores anything longer or more serious, which is a real shame for league racers or people who just want full simulation. I like double digit laps at the least to have some semblance of being in a race, and the consequences of damage to me and whoever else is part of that race experience.

Also on top of all that, not only is heavy damage fairly light and inconsequential, but it's not very accurate or precise. You either get engine or suspension damage with some fixed level of hp loss or misalignment. It ignores most of the car. This would then go back to realistic repair times because how long you're in the pits will depend on what's damaged.

Mechanical damage is in a far worse state than visual damage basically.

Fair point well made, I don't know anyone willing to sit through 3 laps of Nurburgring leave alone an endurance race where heavy damage wouldn't be a finisher. So my view on it is based on lacking experience.

 

[LVracerGT]

To those saying that GT6 should have visual damage similiar to the likes of Project Cars, please take a few seconds to consider the amount of time they'd have to spend to model it for each and every car.

It's actually a bit simpler than that. Each and every car doesn't have to have unique damage. It's a model that would be broken down into parts and have a deformation and break algorithm. All PD would have to do is designate breakable parts on each car. I.E. fenders, hood, bumpers, etc.

With the amount of time PD takes in between releases and the budget they have there's no excuse besides Kaz not wanting to ruin his "beautiful cars". Cars are beautiful in real life too, and they crash in real life and don't look so beautiful afterwards. Someone asked if damage was a standard in racing sims now. It is, and people need to start realizing PD isn't living up to its potential.

On the topic of pCARS being delayed, at least that game will actually be worth the wait and not full of empty promises on release.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

My favorite damage model in any racing game so far was NFS Porsche Unleashed not so much for the graphics but for the mechanical aspect of it. Individual parts were damaged and had to be repaired or replaced. Tires, brakes, springs, dampers, bumpers, engine, drive train and so on. It would not allow a car to be completely killed during a race but you could easily do so much damage that you would finish dead last winning no coin and have a big repair bill at the end of the race unless you happened to have spare parts in your garage that would fit on the car in which case you could patch it up with those.

 

[TheeFrogmanlego]

There is no perfect one, in most games with damage models, any bump = giant scuffs and parts falling off. when in fact it was just a scuff that should have left well a scuff..
what bugs me is we saw paint chipping in 5 before it came out and we never got it =/

 

[TheeFrogmanlego]

It's actually a bit simpler than that. Each and every car doesn't have to have unique damage. It's a model that would be broken down into parts and have a deformation and break algorithm. All PD would have to do is designate breakable parts on each car. I.E. fenders, hood, bumpers, etc.

With the amount of time PD takes in between releases and the budget they have there's no excuse besides Kaz not wanting to ruin his "beautiful cars". Cars are beautiful in real life too, and they crash in real life and don't look so beautiful afterwards. Someone asked if damage was a standard in racing sims now. It is, and people need to start realizing PD isn't living up to its potential.

On the topic of pCARS being delayed, at least that game will actually be worth the wait and not full of empty promises on release.

So scripted damage.. no thanks!

 

[J-KiLLA24]

oh lord the left headlight is really pushed way up there isnt it haha

I 'd

 

[Metfanant]

also GT5 doesn't stay 1080p 60 fps all the time.

ANyway if somehow the reason for not implementing the damage model is a reduction to 720 p then that is a price I'd gladly pay.

actually, if you want it to get technical...GT5 never really does 1080p at all...

So scripted damage.. no thanks!

would still be better than what we had in GT5

 

[Dmarc_Atl]

It's actually a bit simpler than that. Each and every car doesn't have to have unique damage. It's a model that would be broken down into parts and have a deformation and break algorithm. All PD would have to do is designate breakable parts on each car. I.E. fenders, hood, bumpers, etc.


On the topic of pCARS being delayed, at least that game will actually be worth the wait and not full of empty promises on release.

Yea this is true.But I think he meant like modeling under the panels, how ever that could be avoided just by applying a flat texture with a mask, so that it could be the same color as the car,I guess.And your right PD hasnt been living up to its potential since the PS2 era.Its kinda clear to me that they are going to make what they want.Also they need alot more employees.I know they only make 1 game but that game is one of the biggest games in PS history,150 isnt enough.How many promises have SMS made for pCars? Im sure they know not to confirm features thats still being worked on.Something Kaz learned a little too late.

So scripted damage.. no thanks!

How does that mean scripted damage? He essentially described some of the rally cars. Without separate fenders you will get something like this using real time deformation

Which what you see on the ferrari posted earlier.
If you detach the fenders ( which isnt hard ) you will still get the deformation but you will also get fenders panels and doors falling off.Which imo would be a great damage model and thats why I said before PD already got the hard part of damage modeling ( real time deformation) down.
With that you will get something similar to gta IV damage ( I dont know if they used real time or not because they are always so secretive , but im assuming they did for the most part)

 

[Samus]

Are those who are unhappy the "alleged" (we have yet to see it) damage system actually surprised over this?

10.5 million people have bought GT5, so PDI has to believe that only a minority will even care about this.

I will say this though (I said the same thing in 2010 when GT5 was out), when the dust settles and GT6 sells another 9-10 million coppies all the while outselling FM5, PCars, etc., I be here posting this very thing in a thread when some other "hot button" is pressed by PDI.

This seems to be your answer to everything. GT sells millions of games so nothing needs improving, enough people like it. That's a very poor way to look at things, just because something sells well and people are seemingly happy it doesn't mean the creators shouldn't strive to improve it. Assuming that only a few people dislike certain aspects is a very dangerous way to approach things.

Just look at GTA. GTA IV has sold 20+ million, did they just assume they were all happy? No, they made some huge changes for GTAV.

 

[Spagetti69]

This seems to be your answer to everything. GT sells millions of games so nothing needs improving, enough people like it. That's a very poor way to look at things, just because something sells well and people are seemingly happy it doesn't mean the creators shouldn't strive to improve it. Assuming that only a few people dislike certain aspects is a very dangerous way to approach things.

Just look at GTA. GTA IV has sold 20+ million, did they just assume they were all happy? No, they made some huge changes for GTAV.

Unfortunately he's right though. The masses will buy it regardless. Look at a lot of EA annual releases. Nothing more than roster upgrades and people clamour for it. GT is similar (not on release rates lol) in that people will suck it up.
No real need for innovation unless your a company that prides itself.

 

[Samus]

Unfortunately he's right though. The masses will buy it regardless. Look at a lot of EA annual releases. Nothing more than roster upgrades and people clamour for it. GT is similar (not on release rates lol) in that people will suck it up.
No real need for innovation unless your a company that prides itself.

I know that but we as fans should WANT them to improve things but it seems when any legitimate problems with the series are brought up he will tell us how many copies GT sold, that plenty therefore are happy and things don't need fixing, we should just pipe down.

 

[Spagetti69]

I know that but we as fans should WANT them to improve things but it seems when any legitimate problems with the series are brought up he will tell us how many copies GT sold, that plenty therefore are happy and things don't need fixing, we should just pipe down.

I agree with that and for what it's worth his comment is only one of the 5 million who will buy it. I echo your sentiments but company's today are getting more stringent and savvy with regards to what they can get away with.

Grid for example has estimated 5% drop in sales for not implementing cockpit views. There happy to go with that. GT fan base has never had damage,why give it now when they can get away with it. I'm tired of how "great"PD are portrayed around here. I mean if recent rumours turn out to be true that there going to release a track every month then my hat will fall off. How come they can knock that up in a month eh? (If it comes true that is).

You can only vote with your wallet, that's all they will listen to, unfortunately there's wallets out there that will drown us out.

 

[H3avyM3tal]

I find it funny that people try to replicate damage ingame by driving slower and complaining that they should have been taken out of commission, and then they forget the quit race option.

Seriously now, I understand the need for visual damage and I aslo would like to see GT as the top dog again in all areas of expertise, but I think the real reason is GT5 is it's engine. Too complex and too restrictive. I think GT on PS4 will be much much better, given the nature of the system and PD's capabilities.

That's why while I can't wait to play GT6, I wish why it was being made for PS4 after all.

 

[Jawehawk]

It's actually a bit simpler than that. Each and every car doesn't have to have unique damage. It's a model that would be broken down into parts and have a deformation and break algorithm. All PD would have to do is designate breakable parts on each car. I.E. fenders, hood, bumpers, etc.

With the amount of time PD takes in between releases and the budget they have there's no excuse besides Kaz not wanting to ruin his "beautiful cars". Cars are beautiful in real life too, and they crash in real life and don't look so beautiful afterwards. Someone asked if damage was a standard in racing sims now. It is, and people need to start realizing PD isn't living up to its potential.

On the topic of pCARS being delayed, at least that game will actually be worth the wait and not full of empty promises on release.

So you want a scripted damage model, which not only looks bad half the time, it also isn't realistic in any way. Also, you need to take into account that cars in GT6 will have a wide array of custom parts availible.

And since PCars isn't out yet, it's a bit early to say that they will succed in every department. I too think the game will be great, but In the back of my head, I still remember that the folks making it, are the same folks who made the Shift games... Not a great legacy. Also, they seem to lack the funding to get a proper grid of cars together. Which is a massive shame.

 

[Joie de vivre!]

I didn't expect much from damage model so I'm not dissapointed by the fact it will remain almost the same.

 

[Spagetti69]

So you want a scripted damage model,

If the script says "I hit wall, I get damage" then yeah, I'll have a bit of that.

AI is scripted, physics are scripted, damn the whole game is scripted. Same as any other game

 

[confusion]

then don't call GT, the "real car simulator"...

Damage makes you drive more realistically and more cautiously, like for RL... You don't take unnecessary risk without consequences. It teaches you how to behave in a race environment (especially online).

chromatic 9 (A well known GT Screentshot artist) picture of Project CARS alfa stage visual damage, it shows you that other game creators are not seeing GT as the king anymore (in graphic as in other field):

Real Driving Simulator.

If you can't drive without crashing, you're pretty terrible at driving.

 

[Samus]

Real Driving Simulator.

If you can't drive without crashing, you're pretty terrible at driving.

Accident

Noun

• An unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury.
• A crash involving road or other vehicles, typically one that causes serious damage or injury.

 

[Scaff]

Real Driving Simulator.

If you can't drive without crashing, you're pretty terrible at driving.

And what about other people hitting you? Or using your car as a portable crash barrier when braking?

Should they not face any consequences for this?

Now you may just use GT as a hot lap tool, but plenty of people use it to race and crashes happen during races.

You also seem to be forgetting that PD themselves are the ones who trumpeted the damage in GT5, as such it would be nice to see them deliver on it.