GT Sport beta physics discussion - Read the First Post Before Replying

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I'm thinking too it lies somewhere in the drivetrain. I haven't noticed this behavior before in past GT's nor Assetto Corsa or Project Cars.

In gt6 it does can happen if you lock the brakes ( no ABS )

 

[turismoslayer]

In gt6 it does can happen if you lock the brakes ( no ABS )

Oh absolutely. No doubt about that. I guess I should have said I've only experienced this behavior before when not using ABS.

 

[super_gt]

@z06fun
It will be good if you add poll:
Do you like the GT Sport Beta physics?
Yes,a big improvement from GT6.
Yes,the improvement might have been greater but I like it.
No,the physics improvement is very small.

 

[Titzon Toast]

How do the physics in the Beta stack up against PCars and AC using a wheel please?
No code for me, unfortunately.

 

[polizei]

Drove the STI and Evo back to back and those cars are so different. The subie likes to slide it's tail out all the time and can wash out the front end too while the Evo has god-like grip. Not sure how accurate it is but the subie is more fun for hooning and the Evo is a scalpel.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Servers are back up.

Update is kind of boring ... but maybe these are the good corrections a lot of us have asked for, maybe the good kind of boring

Physics update ...

 

[another_jakhole]

Physics update ...

Reeeaaally boring. Yawn. Wake me up when the physics are rolled back to Gran Turismo 3's. That would be fun and not "boring".

How can someone think this is a "boring" update? Even if the FFB was the only thing improved (oh, and the 9.8gb left of update), I would consider it to be exciting.

 

[Scaff]

Fingers crossed the MRs are now a lot less murderous.

The Evora was still almost completely wrong, and the off track traction for all cars plain daft.

Please don't disappoint me on this PD.

 

[05XR8]

How do the physics in the Beta stack up against PCars and AC using a wheel please?
No code for me, unfortunately.

After what Ian Bell posted(in the PCars 2 thread), about what Ben Collins had to say of the physics, there won't be any comparison.

 

[Haitauer]

Fingers crossed the MRs are now a lot less murderous.

The Evora was still almost completely wrong, and the off track traction for all cars plain daft.

Please don't disappoint me on this PD.

double post here as its physics related - outside this video C4 feels more.. balanced. have to tinker the setups as theyr not working as well in 1.05. FFB also improved greatly in G29.

Now look at that! Feels like they have just been testing the server loads and only now have they given us the actual physics of GTS:tup:. And the sound I was talking about. Its there at 3m40s and 4m 40s.. and 9m 15s make my spine hurt..

 

[z06fun]

Fingers crossed the MRs are now a lot less murderous.

The Evora was still almost completely wrong, and the off track traction for all cars plain daft.

Please don't disappoint me on this PD.

Now that I have spent quite a lot of time with the v1.04, and having just run an Elise again on course over the weekend, I was just going to go on a big rant about this and how the Evora really shows how bad (incorrect) the physics still are. There really is no excuse when AC has been out on the same platform for over 6 months and PD has been working on GTS for much more time than it took Kunos to make their PS4 product, and the PD team is 10x the size of Kunos, oh and Kaz has lots of real car experience.
But I will wait until I try the update...

 

[super_gt]

Spoiler: Heavy crash

 

[jules283]

1.05 physics very unrealistic and not satisfying at all!
Before, there was a period of tyre deformation/elasticity followed by a slide on,say, provoked lift off oversteer. Without correction, the rear tyres would lose all grip and the car would spin (as expected).
Now the rear tyres feel like stretchy, gloopy glue with lots of deformation and any sliding feels...elastic?
I took the Subaru WRX to Nurb and could not provoke oversteer/spin with throttle lift despite my best efforts. Eventually the rear of the car, whilst stuck at an extreme rubbery angle of drift, would pull the front off track.
The Scooby has a lot of under steer so I switched to the Focus ST and again could not provoke a spin!

Physics for newbs? Maybe. I suppose it's just a beta but I can't access PD's forum to say what I think of the physics. Anyone else have similar findings?

 

[Scaff]

Well that update went backwards in terms of physics.

The Evora can now be thrown around the ring with ABS, TC and ASM all switched off. You can ride the curbs, gravel traps and grass to your heart's content, safe in the knowledge that it's unlikely to upset the card balance.

Even setting the brake balance all the way to the rear, ABS off stop from 140 while slamming down the gears into first with the needle bouncing off the limiter will not upset the car.

Or the Gr4 GTR that now has more grip, less understeer and can lap Brands Indy with all aids off and the brake bias all the way back without drama (and don't worry about those curbs either).

Right now Driveclub's hardcore mode is better than this.

 

[doblocruiser]

Well that update went backwards in terms of physics.

The Evora can now be thrown around the ring with ABS, TC and ASM all switched off. You can ride the curbs, gravel traps and grass to your heart's content, safe in the knowledge that it's unlikely to upset the card balance.

Even setting the brake balance all the way to the rear, ABS off stop from 140 while slamming down the gears into first with the needle bouncing off the limiter will not upset the car.

Or the Gr4 GTR that now has more grip, less understeer and can lap Brands Indy with all aids off and the brake bias all the way back without drama (and don't worry about those curbs either).

Right now Driveclub's hardcore mode is better than this.

I redownloaded this night to test out the improved physics but your post is kind of worrying. Driveclub beating GTS in terms of physics and graphics, who would have thought that

It means also that GTS could go back to 30 FPS and add variable weather conditions since for the physics engine itself the 60 FPS doesn't seem worth it.

 

[PzR Slim]

Well that update went backwards in terms of physics.

The Evora can now be thrown around the ring with ABS, TC and ASM all switched off. You can ride the curbs, gravel traps and grass to your heart's content, safe in the knowledge that it's unlikely to upset the card balance.

Even setting the brake balance all the way to the rear, ABS off stop from 140 while slamming down the gears into first with the needle bouncing off the limiter will not upset the car.

Or the Gr4 GTR that now has more grip, less understeer and can lap Brands Indy with all aids off and the brake bias all the way back without drama (and don't worry about those curbs either).

Right now Driveclub's hardcore mode is better than this.

Have to agree. I hadn't played the beta for a week or so. Been playing AC, R3E, Automobilista and even Rfactor 2 after the recent DX11 beta release. So was very intrigued to hear about the improved physics and ffb with 1.05. Come back to GTS after playing that lot for a week and it's all just wrong.

 

[bdj57]

Well that update went backwards in terms of physics.

The Evora can now be thrown around the ring with ABS, TC and ASM all switched off. You can ride the curbs, gravel traps and grass to your heart's content, safe in the knowledge that it's unlikely to upset the card balance.

Even setting the brake balance all the way to the rear, ABS off stop from 140 while slamming down the gears into first with the needle bouncing off the limiter will not upset the car.

Or the Gr4 GTR that now has more grip, less understeer and can lap Brands Indy with all aids off and the brake bias all the way back without drama (and don't worry about those curbs either).

Right now Driveclub's hardcore mode is better than this.

What do you think why PD doing that? Is they experimenting to find what they think a suitable physics for GTS or simply they give an offering to beta testers which physics is better from through the beta?

 

[Haitauer]

Well that update went backwards in terms of physics.

The Evora can now be thrown around the ring with ABS, TC and ASM all switched off. You can ride the curbs, gravel traps and grass to your heart's content, safe in the knowledge that it's unlikely to upset the card balance.

Even setting the brake balance all the way to the rear, ABS off stop from 140 while slamming down the gears into first with the needle bouncing off the limiter will not upset the car.

Or the Gr4 GTR that now has more grip, less understeer and can lap Brands Indy with all aids off and the brake bias all the way back without drama (and don't worry about those curbs either).

Right now Driveclub's hardcore mode is better than this.

I redownloaded this night to test out the improved physics but your post is kind of worrying. Driveclub beating GTS in terms of physics and graphics, who would have thought that

It means also that GTS could go back to 30 FPS and add variable weather conditions since for the physics engine itself the 60 FPS doesn't seem worth it.

Have to agree. I hadn't played the beta for a week or so. Been playing AC, R3E, Automobilista and even Rfactor 2 after the recent DX11 beta release. So was very intrigued to hear about the improved physics and ffb with 1.05. Come back to GTS after playing that lot for a week and it's all just wrong.

What do you think why PD doing that? Is they experimenting to find what they think a suitable physics for GTS or simply they give an offering to beta testers which physics is better from through the beta?

Tried Evora, and must say I agree and disagree. I think its not that hard to throw the car out of grip/balance as my Evora is all over the place trying to find the edge. But its what happens after losing the grip. At the moment its very easy to catch ANY slide you get in to. I strongly believe the physics are going to right direction, but theres some kind of forced "skid recovery" on at the moment. Demonstrating it here with something very much uncatchable without SRF..

And yes the gravel/grass/curbs are very forgiving at the moment. But i still like the body roll and weight fluctuation and i can feel that very well in ffb.. Just have to be using very different ffb settings compared to pre 1.05..



Looks as mother nature it self graps my tires saying "there, there - take it easy now boy.."

 

[Scaff]

Tried Evora, and must say I agree and disagree. I think its not that hard to throw the car out of grip/balance as my Evora is all over the place trying to find the edge. But its what happens after losing the grip. At the moment its very easy to catch ANY slide you get in to. I strongly believe the physics are going to right direction, but theres some kind of forced "skid recovery" on at the moment. Demonstrating it here with something very much uncatcheble without SRF..



Looks as mother nature it self graps my tires saying "there, there - take it easy now boy.."

Oh its possible to get the Evora out of balance, the issue is not that its impossible, but that its that you almost have to force the situation.

I ran a full lap of the ring, with every aid switched off and riding every curb, bit of grass and gravel trap it got out of sorts maybe two or three times! This includes riding curbs at 100+ that every ring driving guide says you should never, ever touch.

Combine that with the 'hand of God' when you do effectively force a loss of control and you have a physics engine that is simply so wrong I'm actually staggered that someone signed this off to get pushed out, even for a beta.

1.05 was the beta release that saw GT go pretty much full on arcade.

 

[Haitauer]

I ran a full lap of the ring, with every aid switched off and riding every curb, bit of grass and gravel trap it got out of sorts maybe two or three times! This includes riding curbs at 100+ that every ring driving guide says you should never, ever touch.

Combine that with the 'hand of God' when you do effectively force a loss of control and you have a physics engine that is simply so wrong

Exactly what i said - except i dont believe its the actual physics engine thats faulty, but rather the forced driving aids. You can see the physics engine does what its supposed to do, its the game holding your hand and catching you before anything goes wrong. I really hope they dont force any of these aids in the final game..

I believe it might be to keep the overly confident casual drivers somewhat on track with the new physics..

And i know how big no no curbs are at NBR.. Learned that the hard way few years back. As well as dropping a tire on grass while braking..


EDIT:
So i reseted the setup of my evora from the one i did in 1.04, and the car feels like a 2 ton R8 GT-R.. What the 🤬. My old setup felt like a yellow bird compared to the stock setup.. even the ffb feel numb..

And another example. Dropping a rear tyre on grass while sliding in the "three way rights" at NBR. (0:08) This would have ended tragically even in GT6 unless SRF was on..



I think even i will leave the beta alone until these aids are removed. This doesnt have anything to do with the physics at the moment.

 

[doblocruiser]

1.05 was the beta release that saw GT go pretty much full on arcade.

That isn't a bad thing in general but since GTS is pushing to be an E-Sports title with FIA Support ,it actually is.

 

[Crumpet]

The somewhat peculiar characteristics of the updated physics model within the 1.05 release could very well be as they are in the interests of accessibility for the purpose of enhanced data collection.

I wouldn't otherwise have expected the updated physics model to be quite so many steps backwards.

I wonder what they're up to.

 

[Haitauer]

Spoiler: Heavy crash

This includes riding curbs at 100+ that every ring driving guide says you should never, ever touch.

And i know how big no no curbs are at NBR.. Learned that the hard way few years back. As well as dropping a tire on grass while braking..

Just realized how funny this is. The video shows exactly what happens in real life if you hit the curb AND put a wheel on the grass.. (and the notorious FF lift off oversteer)

Hope the driver is okay..

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Even setting the brake balance all the way to the rear, ABS off stop from 140 while slamming down the gears into first with the needle bouncing off the limiter will not upset the car.

Isn't bouncing off the limiter just a quirk in the game that the gear is not engaged so in neutral until car is slowed enough? IIRC you could force it into lower gears with clutch and H-shifter in older GT games which affects car behaviour.

Also even though brake balance is set more rearwards, mostly get front locking and feels quite accurate in feeling so brake balance overall is likely still more forwards. The new update shows more info so even with ABS off, seems to still limit full braking input. Also traction control seems to get enabled on downshifts.

Oh its possible to get the Evora out of balance, the issue is not that its impossible, but that its that you almost have to force the situation.

I ran a full lap of the ring, with every aid switched off and riding every curb, bit of grass and gravel trap it got out of sorts maybe two or three times! This includes riding curbs at 100+ that every ring driving guide says you should never, ever touch.

Combine that with the 'hand of God' when you do effectively force a loss of control and you have a physics engine that is simply so wrong I'm actually staggered that someone signed this off to get pushed out, even for a beta.

1.05 was the beta release that saw GT go pretty much full on arcade.

The grip reduction to me feels like it is set to low, it feels like designed to make it easy for players to stay in racing action like how the barriers correct you. Also if there is a helping hand then that will limit how cars handle on the edge, haven't tried beta with wheel yet. From what I can tell so far with pad, the way you have to drive to be quick is much more realistic than GT6.

 

[doblocruiser]

Right now Driveclub's hardcore mode is better than this.

Maybe worth a video Scaff?

 

[Scaff]

Maybe worth a video Scaff?

I was being a bit tongue in cheek, but its actually worth a look.

 

[alifra]

In general I think the force feedback it's an improvement since the update,
BUT when you RIDE ON A CURB THERE IS NO FEEDBACK.
For example at the last chicane on Dragon Tail, if you ride on the curb, (and those curbs look pretty tall and thick), nothing happens, smooth as you are driving on the tarmac. This is a major problem, nothing realistic about it, you should have courage to drive on those curbs, they should unsettle completely the car... but nothing.
What are your thoughts?

 

[Johnnypenso]

In general I think the force feedback it's an improvement since the update,
BUT when you RIDE ON A CURB THERE IS NO FEEDBACK.
For example at the last chicane on Dragon Tail, if you ride on the curb, (and those curbs look pretty tall and thick), nothing happens, smooth as you are driving on the tarmac. This is a major problem, nothing realistic about it, you should have courage to drive on those curbs, they should unsettle completely the car... but nothing.
What are your thoughts?

It should both unsettle the car and you should feel it through the wheel in some fashion. It's hard to feel connected or immersed in a game if things are happening on screen that you know should provide tactile feedback and they don't. That's especially true when you have dozens or hundreds of hours in other games that do provide that kind of feedback in a predictable way. Some would argue that in street cars with their softer suspension and less direct steering you might not feel feedback through the wheel in real life in such a case, but it's pretty much a sim standard these days, or at least an option in most games. In AC, for example, you have sliders that control how much of the different aspect of FFB you can feel so you can tune it to your individual preference.

 

[TS050]

The physics are a mess in this update.


I tried out the Evora, and that went from trying to kill you during every corner to gripping everywhere, meaning you basically have to induce oversteer yourself.

What's more, the physics changes have made the GT-R Gr.4 even better than before. Everyone called for the car to be nerfed, and PD ended up making the car even more powerful in its class. Not good.


Something must be up. I'll probably have to throw this on the official forums, as well as send a bug fix thing to them.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The physics are a mess in this update.


I tried out the Evora, and that went from trying to kill you during every corner to gripping everywhere, meaning you basically have to induce oversteer yourself.

What's more, the physics changes have made the GT-R Gr.4 even better than before. Everyone called for the car to be nerfed, and PD ended up making the car even more powerful in its class. Not good.


Something must be up. I'll probably have to throw this on the official forums, as well as send a bug fix thing to them.

Really curious to hear @OdeFinn's thoughts on the Evora now since he was raving about the handling of the Evora earlier and posting up videos to prove that it's representation in GTS in V1.04 was so fantastically realistic