GT Sport beta physics discussion - Read the First Post Before Replying

[Tired Tyres]

I'm finding lack of turn-in grip if anything, also you have to be quite careful with weight transfer and how you come off the brakes and apply throttle. Seems really accessible to play with a pad compared to likes of pCARS and Assetto Corsa so I think it might help getting more players interested in sim driving games or at least keeping their attention for longer.

Driving them the same way should result in similar relative speed in both games, good driving technique is rewarded. Why the need to downshift and have engine bouncing off the limiter all the time, seems an odd thing to do?

You'd need the same car to test that. As for gears = you'd break the box. Quickly.

 

[z06fun]

Assetto Corsa is why I've got no speed in GTS. I can't bring myself to do those GT things anymore. Especially downshifting and leaving the engine bouncing off the limiter all the time. 👎

I have had a similar experience with GT in general over the years, since I came to it from real life physics. The more accurate the physics are the better I do.

I find it very important to turn active steering on mild to be able to complete with wheel users on a controller...

Enjoying the game a lot!

I had no idea active steering had an effect using the controller, interesting!

 

[mirial]

I'm trying to round off corners and enter smoothly to ensure my car is as stable as possible in order to have the best exit, but what I really need to be doing is just saying "F THAT" and slamming the car into the corner in what I would normally consider a very reckless fashion. But my brain just keeps stopping me from doing it.

Surely it's possible in GTS to find a setup that punishes brute force and ignorance and rewards smooth driving?

It will be interesting to see if the wet weather driving physics has changed for GTS too.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I'm finding lack of turn-in grip if anything, also you have to be quite careful with weight transfer and how you come off the brakes and apply throttle. Seems really accessible to play with a pad compared to likes of pCARS and Assetto Corsa so I think it might help getting more players interested in sim driving games or at least keeping their attention for longer.

Driving them the same way should result in similar relative speed in both games, good driving technique is rewarded. Why the need to downshift and have engine bouncing off the limiter all the time, seems an odd thing to do?

"You have to be quite careful with weight transfer and how you come off the brakes and apply the throttle", sounds like it's leaning away from, instead of towards, accessibility.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

"You have to be quite careful with weight transfer and how you come off the brakes and apply the throttle", sounds like it's leaning away from, instead of towards, accessibility.

You have to drive like a sim but controls are much easier to get to grips with using standard controller which makes it a lot more accessible IMO.

 

[JDMKING13]

You have to drive like a sim but controls are much easier to get to grips with using standard controller which makes it a lot more accessible IMO.

I agree with you big time, what im starting to notice is how smooth I have to be with the steering if I want the car to stay stable, this was never the case for GT6. Also this game on the controller out the box is amazing it took me 2days for AC and im still trying to fix Pcars controls.

 

[baldgye]

One thing that GTS is REALLY REALLY missing at the moment, is the option for semi-auto... IE the gearbox is full auto but you can manually shift down if needed. The auto gearbox really isnt' that great at all and not being able to manually change down when I have zero rev's is pretty frustrating

 

[Seanspeed]

I'm finding lack of turn-in grip if anything, also you have to be quite careful with weight transfer and how you come off the brakes and apply throttle. Seems really accessible to play with a pad compared to likes of pCARS and Assetto Corsa so I think it might help getting more players interested in sim driving games or at least keeping their attention for longer.

Driving them the same way should result in similar relative speed in both games, good driving technique is rewarded. Why the need to downshift and have engine bouncing off the limiter all the time, seems an odd thing to do?

Well I can assure you, and I know I'm not speaking for myself here since others seem to be backing this up - driving well in Assetto Corsa does not translate to similar competitiveness in Gran Turismo. Obviously the basics still apply, but on the detail level, which is where most of the time comes from in racing sims, there's a much greater care needed in your technique to be fast in something like AC. GT is very forgiving in many respects and lets you get away with tons of things you'd never get away with in other titles. And this forgiveness leaves room for exploiting that forgiveness to extract maximum laptimes. Switching over to playing GT requires getting over your learned 'caution' and doing things that you've learned innately shouldn't be done at all. It's a bit of a mental block for some of us.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Well I can assure you, and I know I'm not speaking for myself here since others seem to be backing this up - driving well in Assetto Corsa does not translate to similar competitiveness in Gran Turismo. Obviously the basics still apply, but on the detail level, which is where most of the time comes from in racing sims, there's a much greater care needed in your technique to be fast in something like AC. GT is very forgiving in many respects and lets you get away with tons of things you'd never get away with in other titles. And this forgiveness leaves room for exploiting that forgiveness to extract maximum laptimes. Switching over to playing GT requires getting over your learned 'caution' and doing things that you've learned innately shouldn't be done at all. It's a bit of a mental block for some of us.

At the moment, I'm finding I require more precision to be quick in GT SPORT especially with throttle application. Drivability of RWD cars seems worse in GT SPORT, feels much more raw and less sophisticated than AC. I'm driving more cautiously than how I drive in AC at the moment.

 

[Coiler]

I don't like FWD cars in general but I must say after starting with the Scirocco and Megane that they have nailed it.
You have to let them drive themself in order to get anything out of them.

 

[syntex123]

One thing that GTS is REALLY REALLY missing at the moment, is the option for semi-auto... IE the gearbox is full auto but you can manually shift down if needed. The auto gearbox really isnt' that great at all and not being able to manually change down when I have zero rev's is pretty frustrating

Then I'd suggest to go full manual

 

[baldgye]

Then I'd suggest to go full manual

I don't really have the dexterity to master manual gears on a controller, have enough trouble with the breaks and throttle

 

[Jakedog23]

I haven't seen a post on this yet but does it seem the TCS is different from GT6?

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

There's an unfair advantage for Awd cars. I feel like they are just too fast atm. Especially with the start.

 

[Fredzy]

Well I can assure you, and I know I'm not speaking for myself here since others seem to be backing this up - driving well in Assetto Corsa does not translate to similar competitiveness in Gran Turismo. Obviously the basics still apply, but on the detail level, which is where most of the time comes from in racing sims, there's a much greater care needed in your technique to be fast in something like AC. GT is very forgiving in many respects and lets you get away with tons of things you'd never get away with in other titles. And this forgiveness leaves room for exploiting that forgiveness to extract maximum laptimes. Switching over to playing GT requires getting over your learned 'caution' and doing things that you've learned innately shouldn't be done at all. It's a bit of a mental block for some of us.

This exactly. I will say that the 1.04 update brought things back down to earth a little. But the fastest way still usually involves some implausible stuff.

 

[syntex123]

There's an unfair advantage for Awd cars. I feel like they are just too fast atm. Especially with the start.

It might be, my GT-R launches as a rocket.

 

[Adam41]

At the moment, I'm finding I require more precision to be quick in GT SPORT especially with throttle application. Drivability of RWD cars seems worse in GT SPORT, feels much more raw and less sophisticated than AC. I'm driving more cautiously than how I drive in AC at the moment.

I think you're spot on and I don't think it's a good thing. Overall it makes GT's physics less natural and I feel like I'm thinking about how to drive the car rather than just going for it like I can in AC.

 

[syntex123]

Low speed in RWD cars requires finesse, even IRL. I have no trouble feathering my inputs, sometimes the rear end slips(especially when I'm driving more aggressive than I should), but that's how it is driving a car with a lot of power, you can't just put the pedal to the metal and think it'll be grippy all the time.

 

[trustjab]

Most of us can only guess how these cars feel irl vs how they feel in any game. What we rely on may be different to what real life driving a certain car relies on (for feel). I know there's a couple members here with the same cars as in GT, but others like the GR.4 cars and/or GT3/GR.3 we have a limited scope on how the handling or driving compares to the real world.

There are some things that haven't changed though. Things like downshifting (especially on the ovals) to scrub off your speed instead of relying more on the brakes. I noticed that last night on the GR.3 race at the new Tri-Oval Blue Moon Bay. The top guys wouldn't brake much for turn 3 right before the front straight, it was a slight tap and a downshift then they'd be flat out and leave me behind. I could only manage mid-high 42's, they were easily a half second or second faster just because of that 'engine braking' that shouldn't exist. And other things like the 'transmission trick' that shouldn't be there where the acceleration is absurd. Or how certain cars are dominant (looking at you N300 Lancer Evo).

Hopefully these things are addressed and the feedback to PD is taken into account. From the previous version things have gone a little better, but those are my main gripes.

 

[Lord Protector]

I'm mostly fine with GT Sport, but what really bugs me are some OP cars like the n300 EVO and TTS, gr4 GTR or gr4 SLS...I don't understand how PD wants us to race different cars like this, although, I'm not sure if PD can manage to make all the cars even...

 

[m8h3r]

gr4 GTR

This^ The guy registered a 1:52 qualifying on that new dragon thingy track, I finished 2nd of 15 cars and barely managed to get out of the last turn.

 

[syntex123]

There are some things that haven't changed though. Things like downshifting (especially on the ovals) to scrub off your speed instead of relying more on the brakes. I noticed that last night on the GR.3 race at the new Tri-Oval Blue Moon Bay. The top guys wouldn't brake much for turn 3 right before the front straight, it was a slight tap and a downshift then they'd be flat out and leave me behind. I could only manage mid-high 42's, they were easily a half second or second faster just because of that 'engine braking' that shouldn't exist. And other things like the 'transmission trick' that shouldn't be there where the acceleration is absurd. Or how certain cars are dominant (looking at you N300 Lancer Evo).

Hopefully these things are addressed and the feedback to PD is taken into account. From the previous version things have gone a little better, but those are my main gripes.

You know braking/lowering your speed purely by downshifting is a real world thing, right?

 

[Animera]

Shifting down so aggressively that you're bouncing off the rev limiter, without locking up the wheels or blowing up the engine isn't very realistic.

 

[Scaff]

You know braking/lowering your speed purely by downshifting is a real world thing, right?

Back in the days when brakes were still drums all round.

Your brakes slow the car, your engine powers the car.

Using compression braking as a method of slowing a car by changing down a gear its both ineffective (as it only acts on the driven wheels), a good way of getting the car out of shape (as it only acts on the driven wheels) and a great way to blow both the engine and gearbox.

Its why you get taught to heel and toe when downshifting, to ensure that you don't do this.

I honestly can't believe that people are still under the inpression this is a thing:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/gt4-and-brakes.58993/page-13#post-1785601

 

[super_gt]

locking up the wheels

Nice example of this:

 

[syntex123]

Shifting down so aggressively that you're bouncing off the rev limiter, without locking up the wheels or blowing up the engine isn't very realistic.

Back in the days when brakes were still drums all round.

Your brakes slow the car, your engine powers the car.

Using compression braking as a method of slowing a car by changing down a gear its both ineffective (as it only acts on the driven wheels), a good way of getting the car out of shape (as it only acts on the driven wheels) and a great way to blow both the engine and gearbox.

Its why you get taught to heel and toe when downshifting, to ensure that you don't do this.

I honestly can't believe that people are still under the inpression this is a thing:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/gt4-and-brakes.58993/page-13#post-1785601

Which isn't what I meant, I do get your point. I just meant like when you're driving on normal roads and you come to a steep downhill and a corner is coming up. You're better off downshifting than constantly braking. I never meant downshifting to the extent you would do serious damage to your engine, duh. If your speed is ok in a lower gear and the rev in that gear is good to go, then that when you should downshift instead of relying purely on brakes. Lifting the throttle and turning will help a lot too, before you even concider a downshift. (For such a corner as the last turn on the tri-oval)

 

[Scaff]

Which isn't what I meant, I do get your point. I just meant like when you're driving on normal roads and you come to a steep downhill and a corner is coming up. You're better off downshifting than constantly braking. I never meant downshifting to the extent you would do serious damage to your engine, duh.

Personally I still don't do it, pads and discs are cheaper than drivetrains and I prefer a smoother drive.

If your speed is ok in a lower gear and the rev in that gear is good to go, then that when you should downshift instead of relying purely on brakes.

Why? Its less effective, provides less control and applies stress to a part of the car by forcing it to do a job it was never designed for.

Oh and if the revs in the lower gear are 'good to go' the you have to have either blipped he throttle or allowed the engine and car speed to match, which means that compression braking isn't doing a thing and you are using the brakes alone.

Lifting the throttle and turning will help a lot too, before you even concider a downshift. (For such a corner as the last turn on the tri-oval)

And that's a totally different thing. Modulating the throttle is not the same as slowing a car via downshifting alone.

 

[syntex123]

Personally I still don't do it, pads and discs are cheaper than drivetrains and I prefer a smoother drive.



Why? Its less effective, provides less control and applies stress to a part of the car by forcing it to do a job it was never designed for.

Oh and if the revs in the lower gear are 'good to go' the you have to have either blipped he throttle or allowed the engine and car speed to match, which means that compression braking isn't doing a thing and you are using the brakes alone.



And that's a totally different thing. Modulating the throttle is not the same as slowing a car via downshifting alone.

Cheaper sure. But at one point you don't have brakes anymore. Normal brakes don't work well when they're too hot. So is it really cheaper? What if you lose braking power and suddenly you crash? Would seem to be more reasonable to downshift to have 3k rpm for a few seconds than 0 rpm in the back of a car.

Yeah sure. I get it now.

 

[Scaff]

Cheaper sure. But at one point you don't have brakes anymore. Normal brakes don't work well when they're too hot. So is it really cheaper? What if you lose braking power and suddenly you crash? Would seem to be more reasonable to downshift to have 3k rpm for a few seconds than 0 rpm in the back of a car.

Yeah sure. I get it now.

And if you had read the post I linked to you would already know the answer to that.

However in the scheme of GTS its an unrealistic issue that has plagued the GT series for 20 years now, something that wasn't really an issue when the competition was in the same position. But given that attempting to do this in either AC or Pcars is going to present you with the same issue you would have in reality, GT really should have sorted this by now.

 

[syntex123]

However in the scheme of GTS its an unrealistic issue that has plagued the GT series for 20 years now, something that wasn't really an issue when the competition was in the same position. But given that attempting to do this in either AC or Pcars is going to present you with the same issue you would have in reality, GT really should have sorted this by now.

Yeah obviously, I know too darn well how to blow an engine in pCars, even when driving normal. Just a bit too aggressive on the first lap on Sarthe and there she blows.