GT Sport vs Project CARS 2: A Willow Springs Comparison

[CoolColJ]

Hard to judge details of GT Sport's road surface when the footage has been compressed 3 times already - the original, the video editing and then the Youtube compression. Yeah not much details are going survive that...

what the actual surface looks like

Real

 

[Oyashiro-sama]

Where you' re wrong, is that you change your eye direction ( wallet exemple), so eyes have time to adjust with less blind light, And where you see on the video, it s always the facing sun.
2, the cockpit on GT is not on full dark. And you can't judge with this simple video about the brightness ( much you need the help of hdr) to have your dillated pupil. Are you blind by looking this video ? Not really

And question For you, if you can always see the instruments, so explain me how i didn't try to look the instrument ( when i want to check my speed) because it s become useless when i drove ?

1-Time to adjust? Even if GTS was trying to replicate that "time to adjust thing" (which would be stupid), can you explain me why the dark problem keeps constant no matter how many time passes? Change eye direction? Then GTS should assume I wouldn't direct my eyes into the sun. Or that I have sunglasses.
2-This dark problem was already in GT5 and 6, so it is not a video issue nor a HDR thing. And I SERIOUSLY DOUBT this would be fixed running GTS with an HDR TV (and even if it would, it would still be a problem they should fix on normal TVs).

And for the question you asked: even if you don't need to look at the instrument panel, it is still there, and when i look at it (even if it is useless) I see it. And you must be a hell of a driver, god help us.

 

[GumShoe]

Well you don't even look at the dash since your blinded
I drive at sun rise everyday just about, and if the sun blind is not down, I'm squinting

This footage of GT Sport is really old, the sounds are all different now
And I guess people have not driven a road car hard in real life, because the tyre screeches are really loud on street tyres!
And continuous on a long turn

Except note in the video that tyre squeal kicks in once traction has gone well past the limit, not when approaching it like GTS.

Test the next time when you drive on rising sun, and don't put the sun visor, and look at the dash.
I know what i say cause i couldn't read the tachymeter.

Yeah but that will happen even looking through our TV/PC screens because that's how our eyes work. We don't need the game creating the effect our eyes are going to do, at least not more than subtly. On a larger screen, drive into the sun in PC2 and keep looking out the window; you barely see the dash because your focus isn't on it. But then look at the dash, like real life, and you can see it, and that's how it should work. GTS removes the option of looking manually at the dash because it forces the dark effect as if our eyes always focus out the window.

 

[CoolColJ]

Well this is what the most recent build of GT Sports sounds like, as far as tyre sounds go, it's different from the old beta footage in the OP video

 

[Greatbee]

Well this is what the most recent build of GT Sports sounds like, as far as tyre sounds go, it's different from the old beta footage in the OP video

Willow Springs looks so real!

 

[azeeza]

1-Time to adjust? Even if GTS was trying to replicate that "time to adjust thing" (which would be stupid), can you explain me why the dark problem keeps constant no matter how many time passes? Change eye direction? Then GTS should assume I wouldn't direct my eyes into the sun. Or that I have sunglasses.
2-This dark problem was already in GT5 and 6, so it is not a video issue nor a HDR thing. And I SERIOUSLY DOUBT this would be fixed running GTS with an HDR TV (and even if it would, it would still be a problem they should fix on normal TVs).

And for the question you asked: even if you don't need to look at the instrument panel, it is still there, and when i look at it (even if it is useless) I see it. And you must be a hell of a driver, god help us.

Look at the sun and change direction, eye has time to adjust, you must be a robot to have a perfect vision at each second.
GT replicate how it should at these conditions, or do you prefer a more visible dashboard, and a brigh sun, it make no natural
The minus about how GT do it, it locks the shaft of the eyes if you look at the speedmeters
Gt5 not the same shadow reflection, and GT6 was a default cause at all time, so it's different to the GTS case where it s only for this sequence. Does the other section of the map have the same dark dashboard ? Or only when it s toward the sun ?
Hdr could fix this issue, i dont have a tv to judge it yet

You don't understand what i was telling you. I never say i dont need to look at the speedmeter, but i can't look at it, cause it's useless cause you can't see anything.... Try to understand before arguing. And i talk on rising sun conditions, on normal daily sun drive, i dont have this issue cause the speedometer is very clear.

Except note in the video that tyre squeal kicks in once traction has gone well past the limit, not when approaching it like GTS.



Yeah but that will happen even looking through our TV/PC screens because that's how our eyes work. We don't need the game creating the effect our eyes are going to do, at least not more than subtly. On a larger screen, drive into the sun in PC2 and keep looking out the window; you barely see the dash because your focus isn't on it. But then look at the dash, like real life, and you can see it, and that's how it should work. GTS removes the option of looking manually at the dash because it forces the dark effect as if our eyes always focus out the window.

You' re right, but it s not the same intensity that how sun should bright, in real life you put the sun visor cause it s too bright, or you partially close your eyes, and it isn't the case from this videos.
Even GTS clip doesn't brigh like real life
So i wait the HDR, if i could make driver put there sunglasses.

Otherwise, it's a perception how they show it.
It s like a debate about the Blur eyes.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Look at the sun and change direction, eye has time to adjust, you must be a robot to have a perfect vision at each second.
GT replicate how it should at these conditions, or do you prefer a more visible dashboard, and a brigh sun, it make no natural
The minus about how GT do it, it locks the shaft of the eyes if you look at the speedmeters
Gt5 not the same shadow reflection, and GT6 was a default cause at all time, so it's different to the GTS case where it s only for this sequence. Does the other section of the map have the same dark dashboard ? Or only when it s toward the sun ?
Hdr could fix this issue, i dont have a tv to judge it yet

You don't understand what i was telling you. I never say i dont need to look at the speedmeter, but i can't look at it, cause it's useless cause you can't see anything.... Try to understand before arguing. And i talk on rising sun conditions, on normal daily sun drive, i dont have this issue cause the speedometer is very clear.

Don't throw up the strawman argument of "perfect vision at every second". No one is saying that. We're saying that the dash and environment doesn't go black to the point of invisibility just because you are facing the sun. Visibility is reduced in shadows but it doesn't disappear in inky blackness as it often does in video games.

 

[digant]

Look at the sun and change direction, eye has time to adjust, you must be a robot to have a perfect vision at each second.
GT replicate how it should at these conditions, or do you prefer a more visible dashboard, and a brigh sun, it make no natural
The minus about how GT do it, it locks the shaft of the eyes if you look at the speedmeters
Gt5 not the same shadow reflection, and GT6 was a default cause at all time, so it's different to the GTS case where it s only for this sequence. Does the other section of the map have the same dark dashboard ? Or only when it s toward the sun ?
Hdr could fix this issue, i dont have a tv to judge it yet

You don't understand what i was telling you. I never say i dont need to look at the speedmeter, but i can't look at it, cause it's useless cause you can't see anything.... Try to understand before arguing. And i talk on rising sun conditions, on normal daily sun drive, i dont have this issue cause the speedometer is very clear.

When you cannot see instrumentation (or any other part) in your car it means that there is too much light (direct and/or ambient). In that situation your eyes should percive too much light and are not able to see due to sun glare (this does not mean you see everything dark). Darkness is normally percived by the eyes for few seconds when for example you enter on a tunnel. The darkness we see on GTS should be correct for a transient period but when you switch from a eccessive light to a darker area. With direct light on sunset (as in the video) if the light is too much we should see sun glare and not darkness. If the light is not so strong (as it should be at a late sunset) we should perceive an ambient light so we should be able to perfectly see car interior and the track.

 

[Aphelion]

Me too.. I didn't want to see the way their cams captured the image.. I would like to see the way a real persons sees the track and the car (or at least the most accurate as possible). When driving and facing directly to the sun I never see that kind of darkness inside the car...

Generally looking directly towards the sun makes it pretty hard to see for me. We must have very different eyes.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Generally looking directly towards the sun makes it pretty hard to see for me. We must have very different eyes.

He said facing the sun, not looking directly towards it. Face = direction of travel not where your eyes are pointed.

 

[Aphelion]

He said facing the sun, not looking directly towards it. Face = direction of travel not where your eyes are pointed.

First of all I specifically didn't say "directly at it" because I was trying to say exactly what you just said. But the sun doesn't really care weather or not you are looking "at" it, its still firing about 50 times more photons into your retinas than they are usually built to process. This is why sun visors are installed on cars. Not because people go around staring directly at the sun whilst driving, but because if the sun is anywhere in your field of view it makes it hard to see. Especially when it is low enough and as close to where you would be looking as it is in that video.

 

[Johnnypenso]

First of all I specifically didn't say "directly at it" because I was trying to say exactly what you just said. But the sun doesn't really care weather or not you are looking "at" it, its still firing about 50 times more photons into your retinas than they are usually built to process. This is why sun visors are installed on cars. Not because people go around staring directly at the sun whilst driving, but because if the sun is anywhere in your field of view it makes it hard to see. Especially when it is low enough and as close to where you would be looking as it is in that video.

The point is your world does not dissolve into inky blackness just because the sun is in your field of vision.

 

[azeeza]

Don't throw up the strawman argument of "perfect vision at every second". No one is saying that. We're saying that the dash and environment doesn't go black to the point of invisibility just because you are facing the sun. Visibility is reduced in shadows but it doesn't disappear in inky blackness as it often does in video games.

Is the dashboard of GTS totally black ?
What was my first post ? I said you can't read the speedometer cause you'll be blind, even if you look at it and not the sun.
If you can then you're not experience it yet

@digant that's the case on this video

 

[digant]

The point is your world does not dissolve into inky blackness just because the sun is in your field of vision.

We can also say that if the retina percieves too much light we are not able to focus objects (e.g. instrumentation) because a flash is impressed on our eyes. That's not what we see on GTS where we perfectly focus the objects but we see them almost black as if it's almost night (so with just a low ambient light)!

 

[gtracedriver1]

They should add GT6 which is more comparable to Pcars2 IMO. GTS definitely has more detail than both but I do not like the sunset time.

 

[SDSPOWER01]

They should add GT6 which is more comparable to Pcars2 IMO. GTS definitely has more detail than both but I do not like the sunset time.

There is more time variable settings then just the sunset TOD. They just seem to only showcase the sunset driving every damn time.

By the looks of the demo is also going to be sunsetty in Dragon Trail .

I just hope I am wrong and we will have more than just one time variable settings.

 

[digant]

Is the dashboard of GTS totally black ?
What was my first post ? I said you can't read the speedometer cause you'll be blind, even if you look at it and not the sun.
If you can then you're not experience it yet

@digant that's the case on this video

In the video when you have the sun in front of you we se everything (cockpit, track etc...) clear (with no blur) but dark as it is at night. When the sun (direct light) is so strong to hurt our eyes the eyes will see a flash (like sun glare etc...). Behind the flash the objects basically hit by ambient light (such as the instrumentation covered by the cokpit) will be just a little bit darker (just a little bit) but blured (because our eyes are more closed due to the disturbing strong direct light and are not able to focus the instrumentation). What I see in the video is that everything becomes dark with no blur and no sun glare. Even the track that is reflecting the sun light becomes dark. That's not real.

 

[Silvio]

I dont want to be negative, but PC and GTS are not to compare, because is absolutely different games. GTS have nothing to do with racing sim. Its more photomode game.

 

[MisterOne77]

I dont want to be negative, but PC and GTS are not to compare, because is absolutely different games. GTS have nothing to do with racing sim. Its more photomode game.

...What about online racing? That's the game's main focus.

 

[Silvio]

...What about online racing? That's the game's main focus.

Well if i look back to GT6 online racing, better question is where would you find clean racers ??? I"m curios to see it

 

[Sinyster]

Well if i look back to GT6 online racing, better question is where would you find clean racers ??? I"m curios to see it

Dedicated league racing is where. Every racing game out there is full of dirty drivers. You find the occasional clean one but it's in dedicated leagues that you'll get the clean drivers you want to race against.

 

[Animera]

Well if i look back to GT6 online racing, better question is where would you find clean racers ??? I"m curios to see it

GTP WRS.

 

[CoolColJ]

The reason why GT's interior goes dark when facing the sun, is the from the same reason why a photo taken towards the sun is also dark, exposure compensation.
Only way around is to have some sort of Reinhard tone mapping equivalent

 

[leeboy910]

Did anyone notice in the video, in bumper cam, that when a car was alongside, the edge of the screen darkened slightly? Not sure if it's supposed to be a shadow or if it's a warning system to let you know another car is alongside?
Either way, really cool little effect.

 

[GPR]

Did anyone notice in the video, in bumper cam, that when a car was alongside, the edge of the screen darkened slightly? Not sure if it's supposed to be a shadow or if it's a warning system to let you know another car is alongside?
Either way, really cool little effect.

Yes, it's the proximity warning system for cars next to you. Not sure I entirely like it, but it is what it is.

 

[leeboy910]

Yes, it's the proximity warning system for cars next to you. Not sure I entirely like it, but it is what it is.

I prefer it to a big flashing red arrow or something. Much more subtle and less intrusive.

 

[Kalder]

The reason why GT's interior goes dark when facing the sun, is the from the same reason why a photo taken towards the sun is also dark, exposure compensation.
Only way around is to have some sort of Reinhard tone mapping equivalent

I think the only way to really replicate reality in this matter is to have a life sized TV as bright as the sun (with HDR or actually Ultra HDR) and ambilights all over the room, or a VR device that knows where your eyes are looking at and then adjust the lighting accordingly.

 

[05XR8]

Looks like someone didn't get that memo.
(0:48, 1:07, 2:43, 3:12, 3:47, 4:02, 4:22, 6:51, 7:06)

Uh, no. Doubt the Ferrari is doing 200 mph. The camera is simulating a high speed camera(150km/h or there about for the European versions). Not the rotating camera in other games.

 

[digant]

The reason why GT's interior goes dark when facing the sun, is the from the same reason why a photo taken towards the sun is also dark, exposure compensation.
Only way around is to have some sort of Reinhard tone mapping equivalent

That's what you see when the direct light in your eyes is very strong compared to ambient light. In your pictures we see different sun conditions. In the GTS-PC2 comparison video there is a soft sun light (beginning of sunset) similar to your second picture driving around the track. The effect we see in GTS is equivalent to have the sun switching its intensity from sunset to beginning of night (all the environmnet becomes uniformly more dark). When the sun is in front of the eyes and it's not so strong compared to ambient light we should see a contrasted image. The objects producing or covered by shadows (such as instrumentation, crowds etc...) should appear more dark while objects reflecting the sun light (such as tarmac and cockpit) should appear more bright. What is wrong in GTS is that to have that dark effect when the sun in in front of you you should see a dark yellow/orange lighted scenary even when the sun is not in front of you. That's not what I see in GTS where I see soft lighted scenary when the sun is not in front of you.

 

[eran0004]

The camera is simulating a high speed camera(150km/h or there about for the European versions). Not the rotating camera in other games.

No it doesn't. CAMCATs run between two fixed points, while many of the flying camera paths in the video are curved. Additionally, CAMCATs are typically (always?) positioned high up from the ground, while many of the views on the video are very close to the ground. Finally, I doubt any real life TV production team would get permission to run a high speed CAMCAT inside the crash barriers and at head level.

This is what CAMCAT footage looks like:





If that is what they were trying to simulate, they didn't do very well.