GT4 snap understeer = real, RL vid proof inside =)

[burnout060]

The lack of ability to do anything like that at low speeds is from no clutch. Anything of that nature at low speed requires clutchwork to keep it going. So if you want to argue NFSU is more realistic because you can do donuts, and drift at low speeds. I'd say NFSU is TOO easy, WAY unrealistic, and CRAP for drifting. You want a game that makes it easy for you? Play then keep playing NFSU...

And to the rest of you who quoted me:

If you really READ my comment you would have noticed that I capitalized the word ALMOST when I said NFSU was more realistic than GT4 for drifting. That word is pretty key, hence the capitalization. In NFSU you have all the same physics going on, only altered to give it a more "arcade" type feel. You're still counter steering, still using throttle control, and still judging corners. Low speed drifting has absolutely nothing to do with the clutch, in fact it's ALL throttle control. In fact, low speed drifting is the ONLY type of drifting I've done in real life and I can tell you that the only time I'm using the clutch is when going from 1st to 2nd gear.

GT4 is the most realistic game I've ever played, and I've put exponentially more hours into GT4 than I did with NFSU back in the day (I've never played NFSU2 so I can't say anything about that). GT4 is a FAR superior game and the physics are as close to perfect as you can get on a console game of ANY genre. The fact is though there are still MAJOR problems with GT4's drift physics. In a car with 200+ HP and 2-Way LSD you should be able to do perfect 360's in 1st gear for infinity. When you lose traction in 1st gear in GT4, however, what happens? Nothing. The car turns as if the back tires aren't even spinning. To those of you who read my comment and immediately dismissed it as raving lunacey, you're just as idiotic as you thought I was for praising NFSU as a better drift game. I'm not even going to touch the topic of "e-brake physics" in GT4, as flawed and ridiculous as it is.

I never said NFSU was a better game, and I never said it was more realistic. All I said was it's more realistic in some ways. For instance:

There are things you can do in real life that you can also do in NFSU that you cannot do in GT4.

There are far MORE things you can do in real life and GT4 that would NEVER be possible in NFSU.

There are things you can do in GT4 and NFSU that do not accurately model real life at all.

Period.

 

[vinsion]

Low speed drifting has absolutely nothing to do with the clutch, in fact it's ALL throttle control. In fact, low speed drifting is the ONLY type of drifting I've done in real life and I can tell you that the only time I'm using the clutch is when going from 1st to 2nd gear.

Really, what about maintaining the powerband so you can keep the slide (remember that at lost speeds you'll tend to regain traction much easier)?
-Put it this way, you're going in at the right speed, but you don't have the torque to break traction, BUT if you downshift and gun it, you're going to slide too much--you could leave it up to throttle control, or you could half-clutch it and keep the powerband.

I learned how to drive a stick this morning--I'm not trying to an ass, but I have put a good amount of thought into this.
If I'm wrong, don't hesitate in correcting me.

There are things you can do in GT4 and NFSU that do not accurately model real life at all.

Well it is a videogame.

< Vin >

 

[Azuremen]

vin is right. You do need the clutch.

Ask drifters about it, real ones. They go through clutches like crazy. why? Simply using it to keep the car in its powerband while maintaining the slide, rather risk dropping out of it with throttle control alone.

And looking at your car. you have a truck engine. You have a wide, torquey powerband. My MR2, however, does not. And I need the clutch to keep it in its powerband at times when it goes sideways.

 

[Droptop_Chick]

Werd, no clutch work necessary is the most ridiculous thing I've heard recently...

Vinsion and Azure are on the dot. Clutchwork should be done in unison with throttle. It's an instant on/off/inbetween variable for throttle input. Using the clutch appropriately will give you more control over the throttle. It'll help you maintain a tighter line from more precise input. You don't NEED to use it, but using it will sure as hell make you alot better. ESPECIALLY in tight low speed situations like holding smaller circumference donuts...

 

[burnout060]

::sighs::

You guys generalize too much. I was correcting you in your assessment that lots of clutch work was neccessary for low speed drifting, which it isn't. At no point did I say I don't use the clutch, in fact the clutch has it's own form of drift! (shift lock? Hellooooo... popping the clutch right after the turn-in) However, you don't shift lock in 1st gear, you also don't heel-toe in first gear, you also don't downshift in first gear. Also, in first gear you're generally not going to be going any faster than 30 or 35 mph which makes braking drifts next-to-impossible. So what's left...

:lays jeopordy music::

YOU GUESSED! Power over. In first gear (and basically in any drift between 20-30 mph) all you're doing is throttle control, that's it. If the turn you're drifting has a more gradual exit than entrance, than you can push the clutch in, keeping the RPM's high, and quickly shift it to second gear to continue the drift at a higher speed, but that's it. 1st gear drifting is all about throttle control and occaisional e-brake. And when it's impossible to drift in 1st, and also impossible to effectively use the e-brake, it makes low-speed drifting virtually impossible.

If there's anything I know a lot about it's 1st and 2nd gear drifting. I can honestly say I've never drifted in a car powerful enough to even lose traction in 3rd. However, my 240 will run 1st gear all the way to 35mph and 2nd gear to 55mph, so in order to use 3rd (effectively) I'd need to be going in excess of 50 mph, which is scary. There's not really much else I can say to convince you guys. I'm not trying to be an ass or anything, it MAY BE that my drifting is style is just ENTIRELY different from everyone else's, making all of your concepts and ideas extremely foreign to me, and vice versa. I'll certainly take your comments and consider them with serious thought, but everything I've stated thus far is the way I drift in game, and in life.

 

[dking]

::sighs::

You guys generalize too much. I was correcting you in your assessment that lots of clutch work was neccessary for low speed drifting, which it isn't. At no point did I say I don't use the clutch, in fact the clutch has it's own form of drift! (shift lock? Hellooooo... popping the clutch right after the turn-in) However, you don't shift lock in 1st gear, you also don't heel-toe in first gear, you also don't downshift in first gear. Also, in first gear you're generally not going to be going any faster than 30 or 35 mph which makes braking drifts next-to-impossible. So what's left...

:lays jeopordy music::

YOU GUESSED! Power over. In first gear (and basically in any drift between 20-30 mph) all you're doing is throttle control, that's it. If the turn you're drifting has a more gradual exit than entrance, than you can push the clutch in, keeping the RPM's high, and quickly shift it to second gear to continue the drift at a higher speed, but that's it. 1st gear drifting is all about throttle control and occaisional e-brake. And when it's impossible to drift in 1st, and also impossible to effectively use the e-brake, it makes low-speed drifting virtually impossible.

If there's anything I know a lot about it's 1st and 2nd gear drifting. I can honestly say I've never drifted in a car powerful enough to even lose traction in 3rd. However, my 240 will run 1st gear all the way to 35mph and 2nd gear to 55mph, so in order to use 3rd (effectively) I'd need to be going in excess of 50 mph, which is scary. There's not really much else I can say to convince you guys. I'm not trying to be an ass or anything, it MAY BE that my drifting is style is just ENTIRELY different from everyone else's, making all of your concepts and ideas extremely foreign to me, and vice versa. I'll certainly take your comments and consider them with serious thought, but everything I've stated thus far is the way I drift in game, and in life.

geez someone got butthurt....Its ok you don't have to defend yourself here.....you should of never mentioned NFSU then you wouldn't of had to do all this...=0)

 

[Droptop_Chick]

I think you're missing the point we're trying to put across. Necessary no, beneficial yes. GT4 lacks low speed driftability from the complete lack of throttle control below a certain RPM. What would make it easier to punch the power on/off without using the gas...a clutch, yes? Take that idea and apply it to your car. A clutch kick right? Now take the idea of a clutch kick, and evolve it. Use the clutch to variate you're throttle input without actaully manipulating the throttle, slipping the clutch to adjust how much torque is delivered to your differential. Or a combination of both throttle and clutch. Powershifting like you said 1st to 2nd without letting up is a way of using the clutch to manipulate the drift, extension from a forced shift lock. Put yourself in a situation where you're doing donuts. You've gassed it way too much, you either take the spin, or save it. Are you going to start yanking the e-brake to comphensate for too much gas? No you'd just spin out. This is what me, Azure, and Vinsion have been saying, different form of correction. Limited clutch input to pull the power instantly, or only remove what power you don't want to be sent to the diff.

/Hijacking of thread...

 

[Div is back]

To the people that whine about the fact that the car was FWD, search back in the forum in the Videos and Photos section for a video of a Subaru STI oversteering on a track, the guy tries to correct it but overdo it, he crashes and scratches all the side of his car.

 

[KurtG]

Having a clutch would help, but IMO the reason gt4 has such difficult low speed drifting is because the physics coresponding to wheel spin are not too realistic. Im just saying having a clutch probably wouldnt make that big of a difference for making low speed drifts easier in gt4. In a 400 hp car, you dont need to work a clutch hard to do a basic donut, nor do you need to work the clutch hard to get a good amount of power oversteer in 1st or second gear.

(not addressed to anyone imparticular)^^

Thanks for the starter of this thread for reassuring me of the realism of the snap back oversteer effect. 👍
I soooo hope they put in an analog clutch pedal for the next driving force pro. Ill be so mad if they dont.

 

[xsquizet-drifte]

what i plan on doing is getting D1 GP for ps2 its the grand turismo of drifting, it has all my fav tracks even has irwindal, to, tandam battle, but i will always stick by gt, but i might just go to this game for my drifting, for a min.

 

[Stanley^Carter]

Having a clutch would help, but IMO the reason gt4 has such difficult low speed drifting is because the physics coresponding to wheel spin are not too realistic. Im just saying having a clutch probably wouldnt make that big of a difference for making low speed drifts easier in gt4. In a 400 hp car, you dont need to work a clutch hard to do a basic donut, nor do you need to work the clutch hard to get a good amount of power oversteer in 1st or second gear.

indeed, I'm not gonna say much here though, I love what I see here in the forums, especially the videos and so on, so yeah, nothing against GT4, but in terms of its low speed drifting, it is pretty unrealistic, someone mentioned something about powerband issue, even when you fixed that with the gear ratios settings, it still won't help, and sometimes REAL LIFE cars don't even need the clutch to perform donuts, not even with that much horsepower nor 2 way LSD, clutch DOES help, but low speed drifting can be done without clutch.

I'd say this topic won't go anywhere, we're all here because we love GT4 drifting, so lets keep it that way, let's all drop it and forget about the donut or low speed drift thing, and enjoy those awesome big+fast+smokey drifts performed by those awesome drifters here as usual.... who knows in the near future someone might make it happen, lol who knows *glares at FBI Mike*

 

[burnout060]

geez someone got butthurt....Its ok you don't have to defend yourself here.....you should of never mentioned NFSU then you wouldn't of had to do all this...=0)

Hehe, yeah. In hindsight it seems safe to say that bringing up NFSU was a bad idea

I think you're missing the point we're trying to put across. Necessary no, beneficial yes. GT4 lacks low speed driftability from the complete lack of throttle control below a certain RPM. What would make it easier to punch the power on/off without using the gas...a clutch, yes? Take that idea and apply it to your car. A clutch kick right? Now take the idea of a clutch kick, and evolve it. Use the clutch to variate you're throttle input without actaully manipulating the throttle, slipping the clutch to adjust how much torque is delivered to your differential. Or a combination of both throttle and clutch. Powershifting like you said 1st to 2nd without letting up is a way of using the clutch to manipulate the drift, extension from a forced shift lock. Put yourself in a situation where you're doing donuts. You've gassed it way too much, you either take the spin, or save it. Are you going to start yanking the e-brake to comphensate for too much gas? No you'd just spin out. This is what me, Azure, and Vinsion have been saying, different form of correction. Limited clutch input to pull the power instantly, or only remove what power you don't want to be sent to the diff.

/Hijacking of thread...

Ok ok ok, I understand what you guys are trying to say now, I guess I was just saying in a low speed, 20-30 mph drift, in 1st gear you're not gonna be experiencing too many problems, it's probably the most basic of drifting techniques, relying almost entirely on throttle control. As long as you have good throttle control the clutch isn't even needed.

I guess that's all I was trying to say.

 

[burnout060]

what i plan on doing is getting D1 GP for ps2 its the grand turismo of drifting, it has all my fav tracks even has irwindal, to, tandam battle, but i will always stick by gt, but i might just go to this game for my drifting, for a min.

Whoa... whoa... whoa... what?

Do you have a link for this game? When's it come out? Who's making it?

Any information at all would make me <3 you.

 

[xsquizet-drifte]

here it is http://www.yukes.co.jp/d1-game/?

it has a clutch button and every thing so if you like to clucth kick then go right ahead its pretty cool check out the vids pretty sweet but you have to do these trials to compete kinda like gt you got to pass them to compete and stuff, check it out

warning tho website is in japanese because it has'nt made it here yet, but i am gonna get it imported

 

[burnout060]

here it is http://www.yukes.co.jp/d1-game/?

it has a clutch button and every thing so if you like to clucth kick then go right ahead its pretty cool check out the vids pretty sweet but you have to do these trials to compete kinda like gt you got to pass them to compete and stuff, check it out

warning tho website is in japanese because it has'nt made it here yet, but i am gonna get it imported

Are there any *plans* to bring this to the US? I would imagine not, considering D1 only has one event in the US. If they translate it for the American audience it will probably be retarded too. Importing sounds like a good idea. Is it out in Japan yet? Can you make your own car, or is it only the D1 cars? I don't know if you can read the japanese, but I sure as hell can't, so any other information you might have would be greatly appreciated. After watching the videos I can honestly say it looks pretty fun. Either respond to this or just send me a PM if you know anything else about the game.

 

[Drift-Kid]

i hate that damn counter steer snapping it basically forces me to drift extremly slow.......or just spin out......

nice vid......looked a lil painful........I wish i had some where to open to go and drift my car.......... 👍

 

[Sohcahtoa]

I may be a drift n00b, but I know what causes that snap, and I think in GT4 its realistic. Now, I'll admit that I've never had it happen in real life, but I've also never driven an FR before, so I really have no basis for comparison.

But if you think about it, it makes sense. While drifting around a left-hand turn, the weight of the car is shifted towards the rear and to the right. If you countersteer too much or don't give enough throttle and the rear wheels regain traction suddenly, the countersteer will make the car begin turning the other way very abrubtly. Suddenly, the weight of the car is shifting to the other side, causing the rear tires to break traction again.

Gee...doesn't this sound like that flick maneuver to START a drift? Turn lightly one way, then quickly turn the other?

A good driver knows how to recover from those snaps quickly. A better one doesn't have it happen in the first place.

 

[Gabkicks]

everytime i wonder how people can commit suicide.... i just take 1 look at this thread and everything is made clear.