GT4 snap understeer = real, RL vid proof inside =)
- Thread starter Shoes_98ls
- 77 comments
- 4,833 views
Something everyone should note is the speed that the wheels turn at or how fast you can spin the steering wheel. In GT3 you could turn lock to lock very quickly almost instantly. In GT4 come to a complete stop turn to the right then to the left and notice how much slower the turning from lock to lock is. Pay very close attention to exactly when the car begins to pull out of the slide and turn back into the corner. Remember the front wheels should always be pointed in the direction you want to go. The real life example in the Integra was a slide due to weight transfer to the front of the car. Although I can not tell exactly what your actions as far as brakes and accelerator were, it seems to me that you began to slide and corrected with the steering wheel, maybe too much, but you did not get back on the accelerator. The weight stayed at the front and the rear continued to slide. My daily driver is a Corrado SLC and I have seen that situation many times before. The weight is at the front so use all that traction by accelerating and using minor steering inputs to, in a way, pull that slide out straight, while also transferring weight to the rear of the car to stop its slide. In a RWD car in that situation it would be the same input, but more of a delicate touch on the accelerator, because the power is going to the rear. The real life spec Miata example he begins to slide and catches. GOOD, but then he wants to turn back in because here comes the edge of the track. UNFORTUNATELY, that slide brought him to far to the inside and he hits the curbing, 1. the front goes up only furthering his fear of the quickly approaching edge of the track, so he turns it after all he just caught the last slide and is in grip mode again. 2. Then the rear of the car goes over the bump making it very light and at the same moment he decides to turn in. OOPS. This causes him to slide again and he goes into a severe angle drift. The use of curbing is a commonly used technique in drifting, but he's not trying to drift. Although, again, it is hard to tell it sounds like he lifts off the throttle and maybe over corrects and when his car pulls out of it, it pulls out hard and hard to the right. The third example back in the Integra is what should have happened in the first example he gives it throttle and is releasing his countersteer as the car is correcting itself. Of course hind sight is 20/20, so don't think I would have been able to save any of these situations. In fact I have been in many of them myself and have made similar mistakes. It's easy to see what went wrong afterwards, so use the replays in GT4 and watch your front tires (steering angle), think about your weight transfer(side to side steering, to front by brake, to back by accelerator), and eventually you will break the bad habits that GT3 taught you.
uglyDRIFT
nah, i understand, it is kinda wierd. ok, how bout this, you know how when you grip race in gt4 and you take a turn really tight (not hard) and youre on the acceletor? then you start hearing wheelspin from the inside tires and you think your losing control but you continue turning really tight because if you countersteer to retain traction, you'll snap?
Youre gripping and your front wheels are in full grip and the only way to get the back tires to break loose is by continuing turning really tight. Bingo, drifting by slight oversteer all the while youre front tires not countersteering. I think this is only possible in a game and not in real life. And this should never induce understeer.
- 17,865
- 509
Corrauto, some useful information there, but paragraphs are your friend...
Slurp, front engine cars are more inclined to understeer than over steer at entry... Midengine cars are more inclined to oversteer.
Mass at the front of the car determines that is the part of the car that is least likely to rotate. Its why Subarus, which have the engine mounted in front of the forward axle tend to understeer, and why Porsches, with the engine behind the rear axle are so spin happy...
Slurp, front engine cars are more inclined to understeer than over steer at entry... Midengine cars are more inclined to oversteer.
Mass at the front of the car determines that is the part of the car that is least likely to rotate. Its why Subarus, which have the engine mounted in front of the forward axle tend to understeer, and why Porsches, with the engine behind the rear axle are so spin happy...
- 32
hkfeet
i was still HARD on the brakes... mistake #2 right after not braking soon enough lol.
gingerman is an AWESOME track to go to. its pretty strait forward and easy to drive, but if you want to go fast there you have to get really technical... turns 5-6 are my personal favorites 👍
but... you have an evo, and evos for some reason or another OWN every other car out there.
more ot- but I'll be at speedtrials (www.speedtrialusa.com) on april 11th or whatever day it is.
Shoes_98ls
You are right about Gingerman, I love that track. I successfully had the tail out in my gf's EP3 SI around turns 5 and 6 while chasing down an evo. hehe
My gf lost it to lift-throttle oversteer from turn 8-9 haha.
I think that you know my buddy John with the Blue RSX-S on D2 coilovers...
BTW< are you the one they call GOD? lol
- 5,610
- Gabkicks
- GabkicksX
Have you guys tried the ford focus and wv GTi? I've actually power oversteered in those cars a few times. The first time i drove the focus i thought it might be 4 wheel drive version but it was just a plane RS (it was a running start) because of how easy poweroversteering into corners was with it. So... FF cars have more of a tendency to oversteer in gt4 and rwd/4wd cars have less.. generaly speaking. 
the suspension is very sporty stock for those two cars. very pleasurable drives on the nurburgring.
the suspension is very sporty stock for those two cars.
very pleasurable drives on the nurburgring.My '96 Camry V6 LE is the most understeerish vehicle I've ever driven, yet it will still snap like cars do in GT4. It happened to me once on a gravel road when I over-corrected twice, and I had to put it into a curb and blow out a tire to keep from spinning into traffic. So far, it seems to me that the easiest way to drift in GT4, as has been described above, is to do a "four-wheel drift"; in other words, just turn really tightly and gas it until the car begins to rotate. This will work not only for RWD cars, but for high-powered FWD cars, such as the Focus RS and the SRT-4.
- 351
uglyDRIFT
Front wheel drive cars of today are usually equipped with one-way limited slip differentials.
One way means it will only function while accelerating, making it entirely possible for a FWD car to spin out on corner entry.
Also, when you countersteer, you are reversing the direction of the car's rotational moment, so inevitably, you will have to countersteer again and accelerate only in the direction that the car is travelling.
I've seen one of the BMI drivers drift the Spoon civic-R on a wet track.
He was literally carrying the momentum of the rear end and pulling in a swinging motion with the front end.
It changed my entire view on the possibility of front-front drifting and drifting as a whole.
Maybe use a slow in/fast out line..
Hmm...
- 32
EP3_DC5
5-6 are so fun in fwd, you can get the rear out soo many different ways. you can brake thru 5 (if you do you are probably going off), you can lift just after 5, always fun, or you can lift as you are going into 6, which is actually the fastest way ive found thru those 2 corners.
I had my first off ever in 5 because i was testing how little i could brake before turning in... answer is, you at least need to touch the brakes 👍. however going backwards off 5 is fun at 75
.where are you from btw? and were you at WMHM last year?
Slurp
haha, i knew the lesson before that little incident... i just tried to test physicis and i lost
..as for the m3, ive got it down in gt4, but if i tried it in real life i would probably shat my self by about the 1st turn haha
Slurp
Most modern fwd cars still have an open diff, but they're equipped with electronic traction control. Show me the list of fwd's fitted with one way diffs.
Azureman
Not true. It's very dependant on the suspension. Take the smart coupe for instance. Rear engined and understeers pathetically (the fortwo is really bad due to the front tyres). A lot of rear engined cars have poor turn in because of the lack of weight on the front. In a porsche, you have to brake more on the straight (turning while braking will lock the front inside easier), turn in and wait for it to grab before you can get back on the gas. Likewise, there are a hell of a lot of hot hatches that are famous for entry/lift oversteer.
Now if you were talking pendulum motion, you'd be right. Throw a switchback in there, and the porsche will be spinning off into the trees while the fwd scythes through. Although you could probably put a porsche through as quick as a hatch, you have to be a lot more careful of the inertia in the tail (think of driving a hammer, handle first).
I race a peugeot 205 gti, and i can tell you that there is no understeer issue with that car. Turn in on the brakes too hard and it'll lose the tail first. Lift mid corner and you'll be in the forest backwards. I've had a few lary countersteer moments that have verged on the border of over-correction (it's a very sensitive car), but have only goofed once due to the tyres my car came on being mixed front/back and badly worn.
I've seen a MINI fishtail several times on a race track before eventually spinning off. It was quite funny.
- 182
GT4 is crap for drifting. You can't do donuts. You can't drift at low speed (20-40 mph). In my opinion NFSU is ALMOST more realistic for drifting than GT4. If you watched Formula D on G4 you'll see what I mean. There were several instances when Rhys Millen was drifting at 20 or 25 mph, you just can't DO that in GT4. You can in NFSU. You can also do donuts in NFSU.
- 760
- PURGATORY
- xlNightMinxlx
The lack of ability to do anything like that at low speeds is from no clutch. Anything of that nature at low speed requires clutchwork to keep it going. So if you want to argue NFSU is more realistic because you can do donuts, and drift at low speeds. I'd say NFSU is TOO easy, WAY unrealistic, and CRAP for drifting. You want a game that makes it easy for you? Play then keep playing NFSU...
- 17,865
- 509
What Droptop Chick said. Clutch work is critical for getting sideways at low speeds.
And THANK YOU DUKE. It was driving me insane that someone had this title "snap understeer." Its getting traction and overcorrecting and then OVERSTEERING. And it is REAL. It happens all the time in my MR2.
And THANK YOU DUKE. It was driving me insane that someone had this title "snap understeer." Its getting traction and overcorrecting and then OVERSTEERING. And it is REAL. It happens all the time in my MR2.
- 273
I too thought that NFSU 2 did drifting better when compared to GT4. Maybe it's the fact that the arcade factor made it that much more possible. But I agree with what Droptop Chick said. And there's still things that need work in any sim. racing game to better sense what is going on with the car being driven (some just won't be possible to replicate). The GT4 physics can use some improvement (further supported by my playing Enthusia) but a clutch input could change things. Enthusia includes a clutch and I know that SRS implemented a clutch button but to drift in that game was horrible (or maybe I didn't try enough). I can't drift in GT4 now since I haven't played it in 2 months (I was getting the hang of it too) but the challenge of setting up a car and finally getting a good lap of drift footage feels good after all. Hopefully when GT5 comes out they'll include a clutch feature and a new wheel w/ one too. And yeah MR2s, well MR cars in general have the snap oversteer characteristic (almost got one but settled on a 89 Celica GT-S).
no arcade game will ever be better than a race sim. period. no matter what your doing, drifting, racing, rallying, whatever. arcade games suck imo. i tried the dfp with NFSU2, and it sucked horribly. it was worse than gt3 as far as the force feedback being jumpy or whatever.
if you dont like the ability to do dohnuts, or as you say low speed drifts, then go play another game. i can pull off 20 mph drifts. it might not be alotta smoke, but im drifting nonetheless.
if you dont like the ability to do dohnuts, or as you say low speed drifts, then go play another game. i can pull off 20 mph drifts. it might not be alotta smoke, but im drifting nonetheless.
- 3,009
- Holland
OMG , ehhg.........swift, I would close this thread anyway and make an exception for Shoes to start another thread, they just don't know when to stop
Come on, drifting is style, and style is judged on OPINIONS: DRIFT YOUR OWN STYLE IS WHATS BEST and please don't start on saying someone's grammar sucks when you haven't got anything else to say.......its pathetic
Come on, drifting is style, and style is judged on OPINIONS: DRIFT YOUR OWN STYLE IS WHATS BEST and please don't start on saying someone's grammar sucks when you haven't got anything else to say.......its pathetic
