GT4 Tires and Real Life counterparts...List inside

[colnago]

Since questions still linger, I've pulled a list of tires and their general classifications from www.tirerack.com . I associated, what I consider, the highest "sub-category" with the corresponding GT4 "Main Category"...since when we talk N3, we usually think of the stickiest of street tires. The main categorys are:

N3 - Generally considered Performance Summer-only
N2 - Generally considered Performance All-Season
N1 - Generally considered Economy All-Season

Of course there are "N3" type tires (i.e. - summer only) that aren't as good as "top of the line" summer only, but they still fall outside, and above the "All-Season" or "N2" category. I thought that this would be a good separation point, and the reasoning behind choosing the "best of" within each group for each Main Category.

With that said, here is the list and should provide a decent rule of thumb for associating real life equivalents.


Tire sub-categories:

(N3) - Max Performance Summer
You want maximum street performance and only the best will do...

Ultra High Performance Summer
You want outstanding handling and response for the street...

High Performance Summer
You need to "re-tire" your sports coupe or sedan...

Grand Touring Summer
You want performance from your tires yet comfort is important too...

(N2) - Ultra High Performance All-Season
You're willing to trade a little handling for all-season versatility...

High Performance All-Season
Your sports coupe or sedan needs to make it through occasional light snow...

Performance All-Season
You want good performance at a reasonable price...

(N1) - Grand Touring All-Season
You want performance from your tires yet comfort is important too and you need all-season capabilities...

Standard Touring All-Season
You want ride comfort and good treadwear, but performance is also important....

Passenger All-Season
All you need are just good, basic tires...

Winter
You need control, traction and confidence for driving in winter...

(S1, S2, S3) - Competition
You need D.O.T. street legal tires for autocross, Solo II and/or racetrack performance...


Examples:

N-3 Max Performance Summer:

Technologically advanced tires that combine highly developed materials with precision lightweight manufacturing techniques to provide superior dry and wet traction, handling and high speed capabilities.

BFGoodrich: g-Force T/A KD
Bridgestone: Potenza RE050, Potenza RE050A, Potenza S-03 Pole Position
Continental: ContiSportContact 2, ContiSportContact 2, Vmax
Dunlop: SP Sport 9000, SP Sport 9000 DSSTSP, Sport Maxx
* Goodyear: Eagle F1 Fiorano, Eagle F1 GS-D3, Eagle F1 Supercar
Kumho: ECSTA MX
Michelin: Pilot Sport, Pilot Sport PS2
Pirelli: PZero Nero, PZero Rosso Asimmetrico, PZero Rosso Direzionale, PZero System Asimmetrico
Toyo: Proxes T1-S
Yokohama: ADVAN Neova, AD07AVS Sport


N2 - Ultra High Performance All-Season:

These tires provide light snow traction through tread designs and compounds which remain more flexible in the cold weather to help blend all-season traction with very good handling and high speed capabilities.

AvonTech: M550 A/S
BFGoodrich: g-Force T/A KDWS
Continental: ContiExtreme Contact
Dunlop: SP Sport 4000 A/SSP, Sport 5000 Asymmetrical, SP Sport 5000 Symmetrical
Kumho: ECSTA ASX
Michelin: Pilot Sport A/S, Pilot XGT Z4
Pirelli: PZero Nero M&S
Sumitomo: HTR+YokohamaAVS dB S2


N1 – Grand Touring All-Season:

These tires provide light snow traction through tread designs and compounds which remain more flexible in the cold weather to help blend all-season traction with very good handling and high speed capabilities.

Avon: Tech M550 A/S
BFGoodrich: g-Force T/A KDWS
Continental: ContiExtreme Contact
Dunlop: SP Sport 4000 A/S, SP Sport 5000 Asymmetrical, SP Sport 5000 Symmetrical
Kumho: ECSTA ASX
Michelin: Pilot Sport A/S, Pilot XGT Z4
Pirelli: PZero Nero M&S
Sumitomo: HTR+
Yokohama: AVS dB S2


In case you want to know which tire is better (links to survey results):

Max Performance Summer survey results

Ultra High Performance All-Season survey results

Grand Touring All-Season survey results


I hope this helps, or at the very least, lets people have an idea of what they are riding on in GT4 when choosing tires.


* - Interesting note, these Max Performance street tires (what we consider N3) are OEM on:

Eagle F1: McLaren F1

Eagle F1 Fiorano: Ferrari F50, Ferrari F550, Ferrari F355, Ferrari F360. The Fiorano (fi o ran’ o) name for the Ferrari tires is used in honor of Ferrari’s Fiorano proving grounds.

Eagle F1 Supercar: Chevrolet Corvette C-5 ZO6, Ford GT, Shelby Series 1

Eagle F1 Supercar EMT: Cadillac CTS-V, Chevrolet Corvette C-6

 

[ving]

interesting, thanks

 

[niky]

Although I think N1s are more likely just Passenger, that's a good rule of thumb. Thanks for making a separate.

 

[Uncle Harry]

We don't have very cold winters in Australia and the concept of all season, summer and winter tires is a bit odd to us.

I had a look at Bridgestones web site in Australia for tires to suit a Mazda 626 Luxury 1997 model.
Original equipment was the Turanza 195 x 60 x 15 (number not known.)


Brigestone had 3 tire choices for this car listed.

1. High Performance which were Potenza GIII (are these N3)
2. Premium Touring which were Turanza ER50 (are these N2)
3. Touring which were Turanza ER592 (these probably are N2 as well)

N1 would be a lower spec model not suitable for the cars wheel size.
(The base models run 14 inch rims)

This brings to mind something that hasnt been said before. Does the wheel size and aspect ratio change when you go from N1's to N2's and then to N3's. Also does sport and then race change wheel & tire size as well.

GT1 had tire sizes shown in the car stats and showed when fitting race rubber the tires and wheels went up in diameter and down in aspect ratio. (Known as plus 1.)

 

[colnago]

...This brings to mind something that hasnt been said before. Does the wheel size and aspect ratio change when you go from N1's to N2's and then to N3's. Also does sport and then race change wheel & tire size as well.

GT1 had tire sizes shown in the car stats and showed when fitting race rubber the tires and wheels went up in diameter and down in aspect ratio. (Known as plus 1.)

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to point out, but I know for certain that I can go Plus 1 or Plus 2 on a few tires, in both N2 and N3, for one of my VWs. That is to say, I can go up to Plus 2, and still be in the same GT4 tire class.

On the other hand, I can get the same size tire (OEM size) for an N2 as an N3, which is 205/50/15.

Whether or not it makes a diff. in the game to Plus-size, I don't know. I would guess that it wouldn't.

 

[niky]

I feel that Turanzas can safely be said to be N2s. Uncle Harry is right, they don't sell "N1's " in tire sizes beyond that on really cheap cars. (can't get them in medium to low profile...)

In-game, tire size doesn't change noticeably between N and S tires, but is plus 1 or 2 for Race tires.

 

[Mad Murphy NZ]

Buying cheap tyres is one of the dumbest things I've done for my car, I just went for the cheapest 185/60/14s I could get. Traction and grip are optional extras and my tyres certainly didn't tick either box. Makes for good sliding in the rain though especially coming down hills at speed.

 

[dj4monie]

You must have pulled that directly from Tire Rack....

You FAILED TO MENTION at least 2 tires I know of that while they won't last very long in normal street driving, offer grip levels beyond any "replacement" type tire available.

Those would be -

Falken Azenis or Toyo RA-1's

In my experience they murder Bridgestone PS-03 in overall grip which is excellent to start with.

The only tire I haven't driven on that's would I call a "Weekend Tire" is the Pilot Sport PS2 which was on every car at One Lap This year.

Why it it soo important to simulate realism in this game? Its close enough without having to actually pay for the cars and upgrades, can't we just leave it at that?

Go out and race for real...

 

[niky]

Errh... because we want to? I'm not going to go all out and proclaim that the game should have a 1:1 micrometer perfect correspondence to real life, but GT was meant to be a simulator, and discussions like this are merely for the elimination of small inconsistencies in Gran Turismo, which would bring the game closer to real life.

If we could race for real any time we wanted to, we wouldn't be playing GT4, now, would we? Don't come off as all high-and-mighty, you'll get mightily flamed.

Now, this discussion is on finding ways to further our enjoyment of the game. Back on topic.

 

[rsmithdrift]

Ha! My '86 300zx that I drift around in.........Oops.....I mean drive, or DO I?? Anyways, it has all-season performance tires up front (N2) and cheapo, used, economy tires in the rear (N1.............usually worn to orange color if comparing to GT4) So yeah, I slide it.

 

[Brock5000]

fwiw Toyo T1-S has been replaced by T1-R, I recently fitted a set to my real car. Nice tyres

Toyo RA1 s are definitely a competiton (sports) tyre, they are designed for club spec competiton and perform best for approximately 5 laps or so. Great for hill climbs! They do have a tread so they are street legal, however Toyo suggests that shaving them will result in substantial imporvements for track work. http://www.toyojapan.com/new_tires/p_competition.html

 

[colnago]

You must have pulled that directly from Tire Rack....

You FAILED TO MENTION at least 2 tires I know of that while they won't last very long in normal street driving, offer grip levels beyond any "replacement" type tire available.

Those would be -

Falken Azenis or Toyo RA-1's

In my experience they murder Bridgestone PS-03 in overall grip which is excellent to start with.

The only tire I haven't driven on that's would I call a "Weekend Tire" is the Pilot Sport PS2 which was on every car at One Lap This year.

Why it it soo important to simulate realism in this game? Its close enough without having to actually pay for the cars and upgrades, can't we just leave it at that?

Go out and race for real...

....yes, I pulled it from Tire Rack. As stated in the first line in the post.

...I didn't start this post with the intention of providing a full synopsis of every tire on the market. It was just a ball park estimate for people who may not be as well versed as yourself. I didn't include the RA-1s as they are a "Competition" tire, more than likely associated with the "S-class" in GT4...no need to get them involved. SpeedWC switched from the streetable T1-S to the track worthy RA-1s.

The whole point of my list was so that people could have a better "idea" of what they are driving everyday, or at least see on other cars, to what is used in the game.

Enjoy your driving...I know I would if my heater core wasn't blown and my fuel maps weren't so rich. I shudder to think about the condition of my forged internals. But getting track time in this area is as easy to find as bargain home. 👎

 

[JTSnooks]

Very nice assessment. Lots of "supercars" (or at least nearly supercars) come on the Michelin Pilot Sports tires, such as the Viper and other cars of that caliber. I believe (but could be wrong) the Saleen S7 comes with them too, and perhaps some Lamborghinis? I'm probably wrong, but I know they come on Vipers

 

[Kent]

So,
I just want to get this straight.

Sports tires in the game are considered race tires.

N tires are considered to be the various levels of street tires.

Racing tires from the game have no place in this.

Ok, glad to get that out of the way.

For a moment there I was thinking that N tires were the various levels of street tires found on normal cars (civics, integras, bmw 3 series, vettes, stangs)... Sports tires were tires meant only for speed and used on cars like the Porsche GT3, Jag XJ220, Ferrari F40, etc etc.

And of course that would leave racing tires to be exactly that, tires dedicated solely to race track use.

Oh well, like I said, I was off I suppose.

Then again, I don't really put much faith in any of this stuff since after all, GT4 is just a game.

I mean, do you guys really think a Z06 in real life is as hard to control as it is in GT4 on N3s?

Sorry, I just don't see it being possible.
Vettes and Porsches are nice cars that handle well all the time regardless of whether or not they are on the OE tires.

But in GT4- use N3 tires on a vette and you end up with a real handful of understeering, weak braking, tire spinning frustration.

Of course this is all just my opinion so there isn't much to it... Write me off and move on.

In any case, still a great presentation on the subject. 👍

 

[colnago]

So,
I just want to get this straight.

Sports tires in the game are considered race tires.

N tires are considered to be the various levels of street tires.

Racing tires from the game have no place in this.

Ok, glad to get that out of the way.

For a moment there I was thinking that N tires were the various levels of street tires found on normal cars (civics, integras, bmw 3 series, vettes, stangs)... Sports tires were tires meant only for speed and used on cars like the Porsche GT3, Jag XJ220, Ferrari F40, etc etc.
...

Close. The difference between the "S" tires and "R" tires, even though they are both "track" tires, is that you can drive home on the "S".




S-tires:

Pilot Sport "Cup"

Ecsta V700

R-tires

 

[colnago]

Very nice assessment. Lots of "supercars" (or at least nearly supercars) come on the Michelin Pilot Sports tires, such as the Viper and other cars of that caliber. I believe (but could be wrong) the Saleen S7 comes with them too, and perhaps some Lamborghinis? I'm probably wrong, but I know they come on Vipers

PZero Rossos?

 

[dudejo]

to my knowledge, pure track tires have no threads at all.

you can drive home on sports tires because they're threaded to let the rain out or something.

 

[Kent]

Close. The difference between the "S" tires and "R" tires, even though they are both "track" tires, is that you can drive home on the "S".

I'm still lost in this.

You say "close" but I wonder what you are reffering to.

I stated two ideas in my post.

1) What I took your reply to mean.
2) The way I see things.

For me this comes down to the "In-Game" performance levels.

When I put N3 tires on cars like the SLR, XJ220, and Zonda, I find it almost impossible to believe they could handle that poorly in real life.

So I naturally must assume that "sports" tires are OE on cars like that.

However, based your original post, the McLaren F1 would come stock with N3 tires?

That sound rediculus to me since the McLaren F1 in road form is still as fast as many race cars and easily faster than almost any "auto-cross" car.

In fact, you mention that the Sports tires are for track events with street legal tires...

Wouldn't the McLaren be naturally outfitted for track events using street legal tires?

You did a great job getting together a list of tire names that I know nothing about but maybe the list was too condensed.

Maybe the entire list should be stretched out so that the McLaren style tires are recognized as some level of sports tires.

Of course, this is just my opinion.
I don't expect you to change your opinion.

However, I do think the discussion is rather odd since the concept of N3 tires belonging on anything faster than a corvette is just crazy!!!

My opinions are not based on real-life tire knowledge.

My opinions are based simply on in-game N & S tire driving as well as my own real life driving.

Simply put, my opinions of what sort of tires belong on what can be found here.

The important part of that post...

Also, regarding the tires (once again)...
Niky was getting close to what I'm thinking.

However, "N" tires seem to be more about the real world and daily driving.
(just my take)
N1 is for the slow-pokes.
N2 is for the normal daily drivers with performance elements (celica, integra, etc...).
N3 is for the high performance daily drivers (vette, tuscan, etc...)

"Sports" tires on the other hand are not at all related to daily driving.
"S" tires seem to be dedicated to high performance driving with nothing else in mind.
The reason I say that is because the tire description no longer address anything more than grip and tire life on the track.

These tires would be for all of the cars that are based around performance and nothing else.
(RUF, XJ220, Zonda, "Tuners"... )
S1 is for longer runs on the track.
S2 is the standard equipment.
S3 is for time trials.

With a layout like that we would be able to account for all of the road cars without crossing lines in odd ways like having a XJ220 on "N" tires...

Thinking about it like this also accounts for the limits in real world tires.
The tires on an RGT and a XJ220 can't be "too" different...
Both are designed with more of the "on track" life style than the "what do they cost" mentality.

So if we were to accept that sort of thought process everything might work out.
All the road cars would be able to fit into one category or another and "true" high performance cars would no longer be on different standards.

 

[colnago]

to my knowledge, pure track tires have no threads at all.

you can drive home on sports tires because they're threaded to let the rain out or something.

...exactly. Treaded "RACE" (intermediate or full wet) are for "wet weather", but not necessarily street legal.

 

[colnago]

I'm still lost in this.

You say "close" but I wonder what you are reffering to.

I stated two ideas in my post.

1) What I took your reply to mean.
2) The way I see things.

For me this comes down to the "In-Game" performance levels.

When I put N3 tires on cars like the SLR, XJ220, and Zonda, I find it almost impossible to believe they could handle that poorly in real life.

So I naturally must assume that "sports" tires are OE on cars like that.

However, based your original post, the McLaren F1 would come stock with N3 tires?

That sound rediculus to me since the McLaren F1 in road form is still as fast as many race cars and easily faster than almost any "auto-cross" car...

I haven't driven many N3 tire w/"Supercars" in the game, so I can't comment on the "in-game" performance. My reasoning behind this was to clarify for people, as well as myself, about the "Real-Life" comparisons in respect to lap times and "tire choices". Many people are saying that "Car X sux w/N3 tires and the times are way off...". Well, first, what are N3's? I tried to give people an idea. Second, what lap times, based on car and "specific Real Life tires" are people comparing to GT4? For instance, has someone taken an M3 fitted with Michelin Pilot Sports, out on Laguna Seca in real life, or at least know what kind of lap times can be acheived, and tried to replicate the event with "N3" in the game?

I'm not trying to defend or promote GTs abilities, just trying to make sure we define our terms and are on the same page...especially for people who have information relevant to "lap times" for a given car, on a given track, with a given set of tires. Basically, I got tired of hearing people say this isn't real, these tires are @#!*, etc, etc, without having anything to compare base it on. I'm really just curious to see how close PD got.

In fact, you mention that the Sports tires are for track events with street legal tires...

Wouldn't the McLaren be naturally outfitted for track events using street legal tires?....

Well, GT4 states that the "S" tires need to be "heated", naturally I would assume through warmup laps, before they reach their performance potential. Though this is probably true for most any tire, N3s or Pole Positions, T1-Ss, Pilot Sports, etc, while top flight tires, are generally not talked about in this regards. I can't find the pic now, but if you put one of the "S" tires on you car, they have a VERY similar tread pattern to these:

and

Which would be used for "street car track days", but then you won't get stopped by the police on your way home. They'd also have a better chance of lasting the trip distance as well.

"Track only" tires are something "I" would consider tires used in FIA GT, ALMS, DTM, etc...your plain old everyday racing slicks.

As far as the "Supercars", here are the stock tires for the Saleen S7:

Saleen specs

WHEELS AND TIRES
Saleen forged alloy wheels
Center locking wheel nuts with automatic safety locks:
Front: 19 in. x 9.5 in.
Rear: 20 in. x 12.0 in.
High-performance Michelin Pilot Sport PS2
Front 275/30ZR19 Rear 345/30ZR20

 

[SimRaceDriver]

So,
I just want to get this straight.

Sports tires in the game are considered race tires.

N tires are considered to be the various levels of street tires.

Racing tires from the game have no place in this.

Ok, glad to get that out of the way.

For a moment there I was thinking that N tires were the various levels of street tires found on normal cars (civics, integras, bmw 3 series, vettes, stangs)... Sports tires were tires meant only for speed and used on cars like the Porsche GT3, Jag XJ220, Ferrari F40, etc etc.

And of course that would leave racing tires to be exactly that, tires dedicated solely to race track use.

Oh well, like I said, I was off I suppose.

Then again, I don't really put much faith in any of this stuff since after all, GT4 is just a game.

I mean, do you guys really think a Z06 in real life is as hard to control as it is in GT4 on N3s?

Sorry, I just don't see it being possible.
Vettes and Porsches are nice cars that handle well all the time regardless of whether or not they are on the OE tires.

But in GT4- use N3 tires on a vette and you end up with a real handful of understeering, weak braking, tire spinning frustration.

Of course this is all just my opinion so there isn't much to it... Write me off and move on.

In any case, still a great presentation on the subject.

I agree w/you Kent! IMHO, I think everyone should forget about what 'tires' (N1, N2, N3, etc, etc.) will give them the most 'realistic' lap times and find the tires that 'perform' as close to 'real life' as possible.

I mean, if you put N3's on say the production Corvette in GT4 and went to any track to drive on, the minute you put on the breaks, the tires lock-up almost instantly, produce unrealistic handling characteristics and make you realize that there is no way in hell the car would behave like that in real life!

GT4 is a great game and a whole lot of work has gone into by PD, but let's not get all tied up in what tires relate to in real life times, because their handling characteristics are just as bad as say the A.I. for example!

 

[niky]

I suppose the question is "What tires were on the car when Polyphony did the testing" From testing with the Saleen, I'd say N3's, as S-tires produce way too much grip to match the quoted real-life test figures.

But whatever rocks your boat... I have yet to test the Corvette on street tires, but I'm halfway through a testing series with hot-hatches on N3's, and the handling behaviour of most of the cars is the same as on S-tires, only more so. Break-away is lower for most cars, yes, and braking distances are longer, but after you get used to it, the driving is almost exactly the same. Exceptions, I guess, are heavier and bigger cars, which suffer more from the lack of lateral grip than smaller, nimbler ones.

N3's are road... let's leave it at that, and let's all get back to driving on S-Tires.