GT4 vs Toca Which one is sim?

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Dry Tarmak
Pickedup Toca2 for PC today. Very nice game. But for some reason, everything is REALLY different from what i am used to in GT3/4.

It got me thinking, which of those games is closer to the real thing? I'd like to think its the GT series... as it feels more real, but could it be that TOCA2 is very close too?

To me it feels very Arcade, where even the Arcade mode of GT seems harder and more realistic ...?

Any takes on that?
 
I'd heard commentary that the TOCA series seems to be becoming more 'arcadey' with each release, which is a shame as the first two BTCC-based TOCA games were pretty hardcore. One of the better respected local newspaper car supplements reviewed the game and said there really wasn't a lot there for in-depth car sim enthusiasts.

I'm thinking of trading some games in on TOCA/V8 Supercar Race Driver 2 on the weekend, although I would be buying the PC version. If I do so (and it's likely, I've become 'meh' about R:Racing) I'll let you know.
 
It really depends on what hardware you play Race Driver 2 on and what mode you play in? On the Xbox your stuck with just one mode, Simulation. For the Xbox & PC Simulation really equals Arcade. Not a bad mode but the physics are just a bit off as you have a bit more grip than you should have, especially on ice. Reminds me more of games like Burnout or Need For Speed. So Gran Turismo in essence handles more realistically as compared to that mode.
Now if your playing the PC version and you are in Pro Simulation mode its a whole different ballgame. The Pro Sim option in the game makes Race Driver 2, IMO, go beyond the level of realism Gran Turismo portrays even if you have Simulation tires on and all assists shut off in GT. There I said it :guilty: It took a bit of me going back and forth between games to come to that. Its not far beyond GT3 or Prologue but the cars seem to behave more like they would in real life. In that mode you get a awesome sense of weight transfer and realistic traction that really effects your car, especially under hard breaking and acceleration. Its a great feeling and I really think its what sets Race Driver 2 ahead of the GT series. There are other things like running off the edge of the road and being clipped from behind that I think RD2 does better but the sense of weight shifting is fantastic.
Then there is the damage system but thats a whole other thing.
 
Originally posted by vat_man


I'm thinking of trading some games in on TOCA/V8 Supercar Race Driver 2 on the weekend, although I would be buying the PC version. If I do so (and it's likely, I've become 'meh' about R:Racing) I'll let you know.
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Hmm.. might be a good idea? where are you trading them in at? Anyone seen a cheaper price than $30? Oh, BTW, they did add the replay feature into the game right?! They better have. :irked:
 
I have only played the demo of V8 supercars2 and it doesn't feel arcadey to me. I can't wait till I get this game on the weekend!
 
So far the biggest problem to me has been that TOCA's RD2 and also CMR4's force feedback and wheel support in general have been way below par, incomparable to anything GT. This is it's main downfall if you ask me. Only 2 car types I found moderately satisfactory in TOCA2 and those were the Formula Ford and the DTM cars. But the DTM cars in no way compare to the DTM Mod for F1C. If you want realism, go with the Mods for F1C or F12k2, there's nothing like the GTR2002 Mod or DTM Mod, or even Mini Mod. :)

I myself am very happy with GT4 Prologue. Sure it could be more realistic, but it's very good already if you pick street tires for the road cars. How realistic the game will be will depend on the tirewear model mostly (and fuel consumption). The Rally car feel in GT4 Prologue is beyond anything currently out there if you ask me, just wonderful. I also just tried Richard Burns Rally (demo) but I wasn't convinced. Try to avoid Rally in TOCA RD2 at all costs btw.
 
Hi guys,

This is my first post on this forum.

Some people say that GT3 doesn't give you a good sense of speed. Pro Race Driver (or DTM Race Driver as this game is called in Europe) IMO gives you more speed, but it lacks the superb control that the GT series offers you.

I've bought the game last year but it disapointed me in some ways. The car setup seems not really new to things that already existed years ago on the PS1. Cars start to slide uncontrollably on the most unlogical occasions. You can't brake or turn in the "realistic" way that GT lets you.

It is a game though with other qualities like "real" circuits and car damage, but it remains certain that it is not up to GT-standards.
 
Arwin,
Don't you think that the rally cars are somewhat stop,start? I have driven a couple of group "B" rally cars and the feeling between GT4 P and true life is somewhat blurred. BTW have you noticed that during GT4 P lessons, particularly the rally lessons that the cars handle more akin to GT3 rally mode, i.e. the stop, start aspect is not apparent and you can actually cover ground a bit quicker.

Cheers
Steve
:confused:
 
I have Toca Race Driver, its a great game. its more realistic than the GT series in the sense that it has damage and the AI is much much harder. So at a first glance it would like Toca Race Driver is a better Sim, but it does have its weaknesses.

U cannot alter your car settins so dramatically like in GT. There isnt as wide a variety of cars as in GT and there is no MONEY, well actually u do get money but i havnt been able to use it yet. Furthermore none of the cars have ABS, any time i apply the brakes the car locks into a terrifying skid, which is totally uncalled for.

Overall i prefer GT3 better handling, gameplay etc although Toca Race Driver is good.
 
What do you mean exactly with stop-start? Are you perhaps driving Rally with TCS? You may not have noticed that in GT4 Prologue you can Rally with TCS on, and this actually makes a difference (i.e. the TCS works in rally when turned on, unlike in GT3). Could you please check that? Otherwise I don't understand what you mean, because I think the GT4 Rally is very different from GT3.
 
V8 Supercars 2 is a great game especially for waiting out the months until GT4 is released. Honestly its a good game the handling is quite good but can be extremly twitchy most of the time. Its got nothing on GT though but fun none the less. You guys are saying the handling gets more arcadey with every new version, I find that its improved a lot over the first game.
 
My adverse opinions on the original TOCA/V8 Supercar Race Driver are well documented on these forums. The handling model is nothing short of a disaster, and gets worse the more powerful the car. There is practically no control over wheelspin, particularly when exiting corners, and the reaction of the cars on turn in is a disgrace.
 
Originally posted by Arwin
What do you mean exactly with stop-start? Are you perhaps driving Rally with TCS? You may not have noticed that in GT4 Prologue you can Rally with TCS on, and this actually makes a difference (i.e. the TCS works in rally when turned on, unlike in GT3). Could you please check that? Otherwise I don't understand what you mean, because I think the GT4 Rally is very different from GT3.
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Hmmm,
Would not have expected to find TCS on during rally stages, I shall try later when I get home.

:banghead:
 
Originally posted by vat_man
My adverse opinions on the original TOCA/V8 Supercar Race Driver are well documented on these forums. The handling model is nothing short of a disaster, and gets worse the more powerful the car. There is practically no control over wheelspin, particularly when exiting corners, and the reaction of the cars on turn in is a disgrace.
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I'm totally with you on this.
I've got RaceDriver2 on xbox, and if I can be bothered to complete all the series' I won't pick it up again. The handling is so poor, there's no replay value in it at all.

Your accelerator button/trigger, is more of a "go faster" button than a "more power to the driving wheels" button. There's no feeling of being at the limit of grip, and particularly no feeling of being at the limit of traction. Most cars are far too grippy, and there's no fun to be had balancing them through the cars on the throttle. If you unstick one and keep the throttle nailed, some weird rev behaviour occurs, and you regain grip, even in a 450bhp dtm car in 2nd gear. I hate it. And, just watching a few new GT4 videos now, the graphics aren't at all ahead in RD2. MAJOR shadow problems amongst other things.
 
Originally posted by stepomfret
Arwin,
Don't you think that the rally cars are somewhat stop,start? I have driven a couple of group "B" rally cars and the feeling between GT4 P and true life is somewhat blurred.
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I have to say I'm inclinde to not believe you've drive a group B rally car before (I'm only being honest) but you'll never simulate real driving in a computer game at least never with current technology although I don't think you can simulate g-forces.
 
Try the Forest Experience in Wales mate. Group "B" cars run there. Scene of the "school" mode for Richard Burns Rally I believe. Also the place where the late great Aryton Senna rolled a Ford Sierra Cosworth on the 1st left hand bend on his out lap!

Cost lots of pennies but was well worth it.

:D :D
 
Originally posted by stepomfret
Hmmm,
Would not have expected to find TCS on during rally stages, I shall try later when I get home.

:banghead:
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When you've tried it, let me know what you think ... ;)
 
Originally posted by sinbad
I'm totally with you on this.
I've got RaceDriver2 on xbox, and if I can be bothered to complete all the series' I won't pick it up again. The handling is so poor, there's no replay value in it at all.

Your accelerator button/trigger, is more of a "go faster" button than a "more power to the driving wheels" button. There's no feeling of being at the limit of grip, and particularly no feeling of being at the limit of traction. Most cars are far too grippy, and there's no fun to be had balancing them through the cars on the throttle. If you unstick one and keep the throttle nailed, some weird rev behaviour occurs, and you regain grip, even in a 450bhp dtm car in 2nd gear. I hate it. And, just watching a few new GT4 videos now, the graphics aren't at all ahead in RD2. MAJOR shadow problems amongst other things.
Click to expand...
I don't understand why you say the handling is horrible, I felt like I had much more control over the throttle and brakes then I have in any GT. You could more easily get a smooth line by getting the right amount of gas and braking. You say major slowdowns! Well your disk must either be really scratched or your Xbox is on the frink because I've played through the game and not once did I get a drop in framerate even with the full 28 cars on screen.

I spose thats just your opinion but I quite enjoyed the game.
 
Ahh, that's better! Ditch the TCS and normality resumes. The slow down that I was referring to was not frame-rate related it was the perception of stop/go when braking/accelerating during rally stages in GT4 P. Without TCS on the cars handle more akin to GT3 rally cars and linking the corners through drifting comes more easily. I do wish though that whilst pressing the e-brake you could still go forwards instead of sideways!!

:trouble:
 
Yesterday I picked up my copy of Race Driver 2 (V8 Supercars) and IMHO that this game is pure racing heaven. If there was no GT, this game would probably be the best racing game ever.

Handling is somewhere between the arcade and simulation - I guess that, like it's predecesstor, full-simulation mode can be unlocked via some "cheat codes" later in the game - with very amusing feeling of driving, braking and turning, no doubt, one of the best ever seen in video games. Of course, using the "triggers" for driving is useless, as the controler should be reconfigured for "classic" syle (A for accel, X for braking), or via analogue stick. IMHO, buttons are much better so far, but I guess I'll soon switch to full-analogue.

Graphic and sounds are magnificant, cars can be fully destructed, there are both visual and mechanical damage and all aspects of mechanical model are literally uncountable. It is probably the best job in that field ever done in the video game. We can only be very sorry that GT doesn't have all that features.

Xbox's power is used in 100% - tracks looks astonishing, very detailed and very accurate. So far, I've encountered only sunny weather, guess that some surprises awaits me.

There are lots of races and classes in the game, but structure is far from the one of GT, and I must agreethat replay value is not big. But, in multiplayer everything changes. Just to mention that AI is very good and I like it so far.

In concolusion, this game is very, very good and it will shorten the time of waiting for the GT4 in the best way. First Race Driver was abig dissapoinment, but RD2 is a great improvement in every imaginable way.

Congratulations to Codemasters, TOCA is a Queen of Virtual Racing again. Great game which only lacks a propper force-feedback wheel for Xbox.
 
Originally posted by Der_Meister
Who dares challenge GT series with Toca!!!!!!!!!:odd: Gimmee a brake:irked:
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Well, you've won me over with that well constructed, carefully thought out, technically superb rebuttal.
 
Originally posted by cELica
Arwin, can you tell me where u get the richard burns rally demo?
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It was on the Official Playstation 2 demo disc (at least here in Holland, but so far they're always identical to the disc that comes with the UK version ... )
 
I can't find it on the net?
You said that is on the demo disc of Official PS2 Mag...
When do you think they will release a demo version on the net? :confused:
 

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