GT4 vs TRD3
- Thread starter benp1
- 80 comments
- 9,965 views
There seem to be a lot of apples to oranges comparisons, which IMHO, may account for some of the disappointment and/or expectations.
For example, I've heard it said by many that on PC it's not as realistic as say, GTR or other sim-type games that have already been out for awhile. That seems to be a fairly consistent observation, so if you're a sim freak who plays on PC, this may not be the game for you since you've probably already experienced the best with GTR, etc.
On the consoles, there are some who do not like the physics yet admit they haven't set it to Pro-Sim yet. This does make a difference. Pro-sim is definitely the way to go if you are looking for a sim experience on the console version of this game.
Another word of advice: World Tour is nice and all, but it appears to be a quick and easy way to experience all the different types of racing--which may be what some of you want anyway. However, I believe people looking for the sim experience on the console should just go straight to Pro Career mode. As one astute observer said, this is where the meat of the game is anyway, and everything that's in World Tour is here and then some. Also, it is a known fact that whenever you load your profile, the handling under the general options menu defaults back to regular sim mode--meaning that you always have to go back and change it Pro-Sim mode when you first fire up the game. Perhaps there are some who are forgetting to do this before jumping right back into World Tour, and it seems easier as a result.
Bottom line, when TOCA 3 is set up the right way, it's everything I wish GT4 was. Meaning, I have the driving set to Pro-Sim, I use the DFP set to 900 degrees, high FF, and competition set to hard. I also hang out in Pro Career mode. When set up this way, (I'm on PS2 by the way), it's every bit as realistic, IMHO, as GT4 in terms of physics--trust me, it takes a lot of concentration to keep a high HP car on a good line on pro-sim; it;s very easy to spin out if you throttle it wrong. The AI actually recognizes you, there's 20-21 cars on the track at a time, you can make them as competitive as you'd like (again, in pro-career), etc.
GT4 does have the advantage over TOCA 3 in the graphics dept. IMHO however, GT4 has the advantage over a lot of P2 games though. But it's understandable as the makers appear to have gone after different things. GT4 touts itself as the driving simulator, TOCA 3 touts itself as the racing simulator. GT4 wants to make things beautiful and have you experience what it's like to drive a certain car, how it feels, handles, etc. TOCA 3 is about giving as much of a realistic racing experience as you want (again, still talking consoles here) with both physics and AI competition. As beautiful a game as GT4 is, I gladly take TOCA's graphics given what I get in return.
GT4 is a beautiful, fun game that quickly gets repetitive IMO. To me there seems to be a bit of a contradiction with it in that it touts itself as a driving sim, yet does stack you up against 5 other cars on the track--to make it interesting, I suppose, but racing is not GT4's strengths. I love GT4, but that's just not it's strength.
It's hard to find a realistic racing sim experience on a console as nobody seems to want to make them. TOCA 3, IMO, comes closer than anybody, including GT4.
For example, I've heard it said by many that on PC it's not as realistic as say, GTR or other sim-type games that have already been out for awhile. That seems to be a fairly consistent observation, so if you're a sim freak who plays on PC, this may not be the game for you since you've probably already experienced the best with GTR, etc.
On the consoles, there are some who do not like the physics yet admit they haven't set it to Pro-Sim yet. This does make a difference. Pro-sim is definitely the way to go if you are looking for a sim experience on the console version of this game.
Another word of advice: World Tour is nice and all, but it appears to be a quick and easy way to experience all the different types of racing--which may be what some of you want anyway. However, I believe people looking for the sim experience on the console should just go straight to Pro Career mode. As one astute observer said, this is where the meat of the game is anyway, and everything that's in World Tour is here and then some. Also, it is a known fact that whenever you load your profile, the handling under the general options menu defaults back to regular sim mode--meaning that you always have to go back and change it Pro-Sim mode when you first fire up the game. Perhaps there are some who are forgetting to do this before jumping right back into World Tour, and it seems easier as a result.
Bottom line, when TOCA 3 is set up the right way, it's everything I wish GT4 was. Meaning, I have the driving set to Pro-Sim, I use the DFP set to 900 degrees, high FF, and competition set to hard. I also hang out in Pro Career mode. When set up this way, (I'm on PS2 by the way), it's every bit as realistic, IMHO, as GT4 in terms of physics--trust me, it takes a lot of concentration to keep a high HP car on a good line on pro-sim; it;s very easy to spin out if you throttle it wrong. The AI actually recognizes you, there's 20-21 cars on the track at a time, you can make them as competitive as you'd like (again, in pro-career), etc.
GT4 does have the advantage over TOCA 3 in the graphics dept. IMHO however, GT4 has the advantage over a lot of P2 games though. But it's understandable as the makers appear to have gone after different things. GT4 touts itself as the driving simulator, TOCA 3 touts itself as the racing simulator. GT4 wants to make things beautiful and have you experience what it's like to drive a certain car, how it feels, handles, etc. TOCA 3 is about giving as much of a realistic racing experience as you want (again, still talking consoles here) with both physics and AI competition. As beautiful a game as GT4 is, I gladly take TOCA's graphics given what I get in return.
GT4 is a beautiful, fun game that quickly gets repetitive IMO. To me there seems to be a bit of a contradiction with it in that it touts itself as a driving sim, yet does stack you up against 5 other cars on the track--to make it interesting, I suppose, but racing is not GT4's strengths. I love GT4, but that's just not it's strength.
It's hard to find a realistic racing sim experience on a console as nobody seems to want to make them. TOCA 3, IMO, comes closer than anybody, including GT4.
MagpieRacer
Premium
- 17,942
- Wymondham, Norfolk
- Seagull_Racer
Turning pro sim off just makes it arcade beyond beleif, you can fly into turns and corner at insanely high speeds. As MikeK said though, with htem on, it takes skill to keep the cars on the road. I got to the F1 series on pro career, beats GT4s F1 championship into submission
You have to be so careful when racing alongside other cars, in Gt4 it doesnt matter.
You have to be so careful when racing alongside other cars, in Gt4 it doesnt matter.Just to add some more info on just how much difference it makes turning pro sim on, since I had been messing around with WT mode until recently and hadn't tried the pro sim stuff...
I've just run a free race, and I had made the already mentioned mistake of not checking whether pro sim had switched itself off. So I was running the Clio Trophy at Brands Hatch Indy and with pro sim off, my fastest lap of a 10 lap race was a 41.88. Once I realised what had happened, I thought it would be interesting to run the same race again in pro sim mode. So, 10 lap race, no upgrades. Fastest lap - 52.02.
Not the most scientific test - only one track and one car, but the difference is staggering. Over 10 seconds. On a sub-1 minute lap. With pro sim off, you can go full throttle through Paddock Hill bend. Try that in pro sim and you're in the sand before you can blink. My eyes are well and truly opened - this is a much better game with pro sim on. And I thought I was having fun before
And my network adapter arrived today too - online goodness lies ahead
I've just run a free race, and I had made the already mentioned mistake of not checking whether pro sim had switched itself off. So I was running the Clio Trophy at Brands Hatch Indy and with pro sim off, my fastest lap of a 10 lap race was a 41.88. Once I realised what had happened, I thought it would be interesting to run the same race again in pro sim mode. So, 10 lap race, no upgrades. Fastest lap - 52.02.
Not the most scientific test - only one track and one car, but the difference is staggering. Over 10 seconds. On a sub-1 minute lap. With pro sim off, you can go full throttle through Paddock Hill bend. Try that in pro sim and you're in the sand before you can blink. My eyes are well and truly opened - this is a much better game with pro sim on. And I thought I was having fun before
And my network adapter arrived today too - online goodness lies ahead
- 895
- GTP_Renesis
gregc
I did the same thing lol!! Fastest lap on a time trial when I first picked up the game (belongs to my friend) was a 39.64 - could only get around 50.x secs with the more realistic features on - but then it felt like a proper Renault Clio Cup car - I'm lucky enough to have been in a passenger ride in one around Silverstone
it makes the game that much better.TRD3 does have some flaws, as does GT4, but personally for racing I'd take TDR3 anyday - GT4 is quite a different cup of tea, and is more suited to road cars than race cars IMO.
MikeK - thanks for your reply, i think you've changed my mind!
gregc/RenesisEvo - quite unbelievable that it can make such a difference
It does make you wonder why you have to actually turn it on though. You'd think that once you've turned on pro-sim and you saved a game pro-sim would be on everytime you load the game
The other question I have is ---> I often play two player racing against each other. Just a normal race, like the arcade mode in GT4. Are many of the courses unlocked straight out the box? What's it like? I also remember on Toca Race Driver that you could play using a multitap and have 4 players on the same tv set (although the each players screen size is tiny - a quarter of a 32in tv) - Can you do that in this game? Whilst it may not be great, the option would be nice..........
gregc/RenesisEvo - quite unbelievable that it can make such a difference
It does make you wonder why you have to actually turn it on though. You'd think that once you've turned on pro-sim and you saved a game pro-sim would be on everytime you load the game
The other question I have is ---> I often play two player racing against each other. Just a normal race, like the arcade mode in GT4. Are many of the courses unlocked straight out the box? What's it like? I also remember on Toca Race Driver that you could play using a multitap and have 4 players on the same tv set (although the each players screen size is tiny - a quarter of a 32in tv) - Can you do that in this game? Whilst it may not be great, the option would be nice..........
throttlehappy
(Banned)
- 897
nurburgringI played TRD3 yesterday night!
What a waste of money...
The graphics are very bad, like 5 years back!
I started with the highest difficulty level: What a joke!
The steering wheel feels always the same, with every car. You have not an gram of what's going on with the car you're driving.
This is an arcade game, not a sim game, the physics of the cars are so simple, it is an insult for customers!
Only one good thing: tons of, tracks, races and championship.
I am very disappointed...
And lot of people who are playing GT4 will go back to GT4 quickly...
what a pi**er!
i disagree with this statement completly
graphics = 5 years old, i think not
makes me wonder if you started playing this game with the pre notion that it was cr*ap, highly likely id say
while the rally/dirt handling characteristics arent that great
handling for the most part is awesome ive found, especially the v8 supercars!
which is the main reason i bought the game, seeing as pd doesnt give a **** about australian racing
in alot of ways i think v8 supercars 3 (as its sold in australia) is alot more enjoyable than gt4. dont get me wrong i love gt4 but get off your high horse
gt4 has a hell of alot of flaws too
in the end im more than happy i bought the game!
benp1
Benp1,
If I remember correctly, when starting out of the box I believe all of the tracks from the first championship series for each style of racing is open. So if you chose the touring car style, for example, you at first would only be able to race the Clio cars on something like 5 or 6 different tracks. As you play the game (online, world tour, pro career, etc.) you are then able to unlock tracks and cars as you go. Using my example above, if you race (single player) the Clio cars and place 6th or better overall in the championship series, you then unlock the next championship series (Toyota), and so on.
One easy way around this is you can purchase codes off of Codemaster's website (I paid one flat fee of $5-6$ for all of them) that will enable you to unlock all championships and bonus championships. They had other type of bonus codes I wasn't interested in, but these I thought were pretty good.
Interestingly enough, when you use the codes, the championships are only unlocked for use in free race, time trial, etc. They are NOT unlocked for Pro Career or World Tour. Of course, I'm only going from memory here, so anyone who knows better, feel free to chime in. I couldn't tell you about multi-tap, I don't know much about it.
The whole "resetting of the Pro-sim handling" is an odd thing. It just one of those bugs. But once you set it, it stays put for as long as your playing until you turn the console off.
Bugs notwithstanding, one other facet of the game I like is that it's so customizable. Want damage? Great! Want flags? Great! Want to upgrade and tune your car (or not)? Great! Want a certain percentage of AI difficulty instead of pre-set difficulty settings like normal or hard? It's yours. This is actually the first game I've played where I had some races where I didn't have a chance in Hades of coming in first, but I knew if I could come in ahead of Joe Racer I would be happy because I needed to get ahead of him in the overall points standing.
Make no mistake, the game is certainly not without it's flaws (what game is?), but console-wise, I believe it's one of the best sim-racers out there.
MikeK
i agree with you completely there
There does seem to be the same general opinion on the graphics but with regards to the driving/simulation/game itself the pack seems to be divided.
MikeK, appreciate your feedback, it sounds like a hell of a lot of fun! I love the idea of racing all types.
Have you tried racing lawnmowers yet? I understand that there is a Honda unlock (somewhere on their website) that lets you race Honda Civics and Honda lawnmowers, looks like fun too
- 1,151
if you cant find the honda unlock from the home website, try honda.co.uk/racedriver, this might get you there, TRD3 is not the car fanboy but the stig, i mean the drivers fandisc.
- 556
I prefer GT4 because the cars are more realistic, on TDR3, the cars accelrate way to fast and corner way to fast as well. You can't really feel understeer as much either. But TDR3 does have the better race circuits and the better champoinship. I think in GT5 it should be a bit more like TDR3 with the championships. TDR3 also has great damage! But sometimes it is annoying when you take the Ai out and you get the penalty, and the Ai takes you out they DON'T!!! But they do get penalties sometimes!
- 602
- Dijon, France
- URBANCOCKPIT-1
throttlehappy
I didn't started playing this game with the pre notion that it was cr*ap! I rented it as soon as it was available.
Why do you said "get off your high horse"?
I just gave my opinion, I am just very disappointed with this game and I've explained why...
Enjoy it if you can...
- 2,571
I think this thread is about to persuade me to buy Race Driver 3 - I've always hugely respected the TOCA games, and this should be no exception. I have one question for you guys, I know it mentioned but I'd like confirmation...
Is There A Clutch In The Game?
If there is, I shall buy it. No question. So let me know 👍
DE
Is There A Clutch In The Game?
If there is, I shall buy it. No question. So let me know 👍
DE
- 79
- Missoula, MT
I'm relatively new to this site, but I gotta say that I love TRD3!! Don't get me wrong, I still think that anything remotely related to Gran Turismo is the paragon of all console racers. Without Gran Turismo there'd be no Forza, no Enthusia and certainly no Project Gotham Racing. TRD3 is a viable product next to GT4. I think competition is good--it makes the game developers try all the more harder to up the ante in giving us console racers the best driving experience without having to wear nomex or a helmet.
When you look at the GT5 wishlist threads you see requests for more real-world tracks. Such as:
Bahrain Grand Prix
Spa-Francorchamps
Hockenheim
The Turkish GP
Pukehohe
Sandown
Adelaide street Circuit
Silverstone
Indianapolis
TRD3 has all of these circuits and dozens of others.
Another thing TRD3 has is damage! I don't know how many times I had to pit after slamming into some idiot (or some idiot slamming into me is more likely) after the first corner of the first lap!! Sometimes it's unfair--sometimes it down right crap--but then again, it's racing. Afterall, didn't someone slam into Nico Roseberg at the Bahrain GP last week on the first corner of the first lap? He pitted, ended up dead last, but fought hard through the race and managed to get in the points with a 7th place showing. Me, I'm irked if I don't end up somewhere on the podium after a lap 1 mishap. It's something you can experience in TRD3 but not GT4.
You also have more than five other cars on the track and A.I. that will kick the living snot out of you if you're not carefull. For those you you who are playing TRD3, am I wrong? The A.I. with block, it'll bump-draft, it'll try to out-brake you in the corner, it'll try to squeeze you out of the racing line--don't know how many times I had to mow the grass at Hockenheim! Sometimes the A.I. driver will get out of way, sometimes not, you never know. That's the fun part of racing. It has the right to protect its position just like a human driver. And the A.I. drivers will battle with other A.I. drivers; sometimes they'll take each other out. Good. If it get's me the podium, so be it.
All in all I think TRD3 is a great game especially if you have the DFP and set the TRD3's driver controls to Pro-Sim--that is the one annoying aspect to TRD3; having to set it to Pro-Sim everytime you want to race.
In the end I'm firmly in the GT camp, but I hope that the next GT will take a few cues from TRD3 and include dozens of realworld tracks, damage, and aggressive A.I.
Later.
When you look at the GT5 wishlist threads you see requests for more real-world tracks. Such as:
Bahrain Grand Prix
Spa-Francorchamps
Hockenheim
The Turkish GP
Pukehohe
Sandown
Adelaide street Circuit
Silverstone
Indianapolis
TRD3 has all of these circuits and dozens of others.
Another thing TRD3 has is damage! I don't know how many times I had to pit after slamming into some idiot (or some idiot slamming into me is more likely) after the first corner of the first lap!! Sometimes it's unfair--sometimes it down right crap--but then again, it's racing. Afterall, didn't someone slam into Nico Roseberg at the Bahrain GP last week on the first corner of the first lap? He pitted, ended up dead last, but fought hard through the race and managed to get in the points with a 7th place showing. Me, I'm irked if I don't end up somewhere on the podium after a lap 1 mishap. It's something you can experience in TRD3 but not GT4.
You also have more than five other cars on the track and A.I. that will kick the living snot out of you if you're not carefull. For those you you who are playing TRD3, am I wrong? The A.I. with block, it'll bump-draft, it'll try to out-brake you in the corner, it'll try to squeeze you out of the racing line--don't know how many times I had to mow the grass at Hockenheim! Sometimes the A.I. driver will get out of way, sometimes not, you never know. That's the fun part of racing. It has the right to protect its position just like a human driver. And the A.I. drivers will battle with other A.I. drivers; sometimes they'll take each other out. Good. If it get's me the podium, so be it.
All in all I think TRD3 is a great game especially if you have the DFP and set the TRD3's driver controls to Pro-Sim--that is the one annoying aspect to TRD3; having to set it to Pro-Sim everytime you want to race.
In the end I'm firmly in the GT camp, but I hope that the next GT will take a few cues from TRD3 and include dozens of realworld tracks, damage, and aggressive A.I.
Later.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you've been playing in "sim" mode - which should really be called arcade mode. Go into the options and turn Pro Sim handling on. It transforms the game from good fun to a good sim, imo. Just be aware that every time you switch off your PS2, Pro Sim gets switched off too. This is a delibarate decision by Codemasters, us players seem to be considered too dumb to remember that we wanted the car to drive somewhere close to properlyjoseph dobson
Another random reason I like this game a lot (there's a lot of reasons, but one in particular)... I can race Caterhams
- 1,151
ProSim = superior handling realism than any other racing (pc/console) game imho, mebbe 'cept enthusia i dunno.
i played a little GT4 after my last TRD3 session & i now realize there is something very unreal about the braking (specially into corners) & general understeering deadness in 4.
2006/2007 will be a fascinating time in the console racing stakes.
yrs, dlb.
EDIT; 2 oth. threads elsewhere in here for those who like the game;
Toca Race Driver 2006
Toca Race Driver 3 stats thread (xbox or PS2)
i played a little GT4 after my last TRD3 session & i now realize there is something very unreal about the braking (specially into corners) & general understeering deadness in 4.
2006/2007 will be a fascinating time in the console racing stakes.
yrs, dlb.
EDIT; 2 oth. threads elsewhere in here for those who like the game;
Toca Race Driver 2006
Toca Race Driver 3 stats thread (xbox or PS2)
