GT5 crappy DOF in replay

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hinklor

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GTP_Hinklor
I noticed something strange in the last mimaximax video around 2:57.
When one of the cars passes quite close in front of the camera there is a very crappy depth of field effect going on.

Why do they blur the car but not the edges ?
It looks weird, as if theres a paper cutout of a car passing by, hope they make it somewhat better in the final version. Otherwise, great vids. Keep 'm coming :)

gt5dof.jpg


video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X98G4OT0SRs#t=2m55s
 
I didnt like motion blur in Replays,I cant see anything without car druing replays.. Why do they use motion blur in GT5 replays?
I dont see clearly environment detail side of the tracks.
This image shows how much bad it is.
Can someone explain why did they put motion blur effect in GT5? i dont have knowledge about it.Its annoying and it seems bad while watching
 
In GT5:P the DOF effect is "correct" - maybe they were experimenting with less expensive ways of doing it?

Anyway, I've noticed some odd effects when you zoom in on replays, largely with full screen effects like DOF and heat haze, among other things - this is probably because the screen aperture is not changed by the zooming, rather it just "crops" the picture and rasterises that "window" so that the effective "resolution" of the full-screen effects is reduced. Except that in your shot, it appears to be the opposite occuring...
 
hinklor
I noticed something strange in the last mimaximax video around 2:57.
When one of the cars passes quite close in front of the camera there is a very crappy depth of field effect going on.

Why do they blur the car but not the edges ?
It looks weird, as if theres a paper cutout of a car passing by, hope they make it somewhat better in the final version. Otherwise, great vids. Keep 'm coming :)

gt5dof.jpg


video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X98G4OT0SRs#t=2m55s
Click to expand...
It already happened twice with me and GT5P, in the daytona road course tuned car 700PP S Class event, sometimes while you're overtaking and the car in front of you is near the edge of the replay screen, it gets the same problem. I play in a 480p SDTV, so I used to think that this only happened due the low resolution until now, but this video prove I was wrong.
 
yes, Yamauchi and translator-guy just read this thread and have confirmed that GT5 will be delayed for another 3 months to get this fixed.. good eyes topicstarter.
 
Yep, almost as bad as the heavily banded shadows that cars cast on the road surface as though there are multiple direct/close light sources. At night, OK, but during the day... :rolleyes:
 
It happens all the time in Prologue especially when you zoom.
But i dont know if its DOF or LOD.

Also happens on trackside objects.
 
I think that what some see as motion blur in that video is actually that the video is interlaced or has been at some point before getting on to youtube.
 
This one's taken from Prologue but also from Youtube upload (by No46TheDoctor):

4481386323_1d8ece06aa_o.jpg




It's not as bad as the one the OP posted but it's perhaps because it better captured ie. unlike mimaximax's video, it wasn't off-screen capture (with a camera) but through a capture device- I believe No46TheDoctor uses a Hauppauge HD capture card. I don't know how much worse a video on Youtube would look in comparison to what you would see in the game (on a PS3) but it's pretty safe to say it's not as good or better.
 
Ive seen stuff like in the OP often enough in Prologue, especially on Eiger when the cam is really far away and you zoom in (triangle).
 
All they need to do is make the edges less defined and problem solved. The edges aren't blurred enough so it looks like poop.
 
At certain zoom levels, the edges do look blurred! For some reason, the blur width seems to be tied to the object's distance from the camera (Z-depth), but doesn't take the view angle (FOV -> "Zoom") into account...
 
dave_sz
All they need to do is make the edges less defined and problem solved. The edges aren't blurred enough so it looks like poop.
Click to expand...

One problem is that if you have an out of focus object in the foreground partially covering an object in focus, the object that's in focus has to have hard edges (not a problem if it's the in focus object partially obscuring an object in the background) but the object in front has to be blurred so the problem is how to deal with the boundary which isn't just as simple as applying a blur.
 
No, you're right - you add a blur "border" of a given width, corresponding to the object's distance from the camera and the camera's current focal length - GT5:P does this (look at the power lines on Eiger, zoom in and out). What it doesn't do is adjust this border width when the FOV changes.
 
What I was trying to say was that all of the visible part of the object that's in focus must be sharp, so applying a blur along the boundary between an out of focus foreground object and a partially obscured in focus object would be wrong. There should be some sort of blending carried out between the sharp part of the image on one side of the boundary and the blurred part on the other side but that would probably involve a lot of processing and edge detection.
 
To be fair in motion it isn't as pronounced as that, most people wouldn't be bothered by it.

It is a bit over the top though, and that still image proves it, they just need to tone it down a little. But it's not going to happen so close to release. I bet its for two reasons. 1: For effect and 2: To reduce strain on the hardware.
 
G.T.Ace
Because it would need tons of extra performance.
Click to expand...

Question for you with the 120hz tv i see a huge difference from my other TV during replays. Not trying to play you or anything, but sometimes during the replay with the 120hz set to medium the game looks scary real/smooth. Does the 120hz make the the replays look as if they were running at 60fp thank you.
 
To be honest, i dont know.
Would need to compare that first.

EDIT: Btw, i dont say 60fps replays would suck, but the replays would "suck" without the dof and motion blur, everything would be crisp even in the distance which would look absolutely unrealistic and "gamey".
 
JDMKING13
Question for you with the 120hz tv i see a huge difference from my other TV during replays. Not trying to play you or anything, but sometimes during the replay with the 120hz set to medium the game looks scary real/smooth. Does the 120hz make the the replays look as if they were running at 60fp thank you.
Click to expand...

If the TV does some sort of interpolation and fills in frames then it'll smooth out the movement and increase the framerate. On some TVs these modes can take time to process and increase input lag, the time delay from when the frame is ouput from the PS3 to when the TV shows it on the screen, not a problem when watching TV (maybe makes movies look like eastenders) but not always desirable for games.
 
Stonemonkey
If the TV does some sort of interpolation and fills in frames then it'll smooth out the movement and increase the framerate. On some TVs these modes can take time to process and increase input lag, the time delay from when the frame is ouput from the PS3 to when the TV shows it on the screen, not a problem when watching TV (maybe makes movies look like eastenders) but not always desirable for games.
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OK thank you i have noticee when 120hz set on high the game lags sometimes but when it doesnt it looks the best. I just keep it on Medium though it has small lag but looks so damn good! Thanks alot.
 
JDMKING13
OK thank you i have noticee when 120hz set on high the game lags sometimes but when it doesnt it looks the best. I just keep it on Medium though it has small lag but looks so damn good! Thanks alot.
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I'm not talking about any problem that's noticable in the visual quality of the image, only that what's happening on screen is a small fraction of a second behind what the PS3 is doing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input_lag

It might not be noticable in a lot of games but I noticed a difference in my lap times and car control in the TT demo between having 'game mode' on or off on my Samsung and I'm pretty sure that even with game mode on there's still a little bit of lag.
 
JDMKING13
Does the 120hz make the the replays look as if they were running at 60fp thank you.
Click to expand...
No only look, they make them 60fps. I Have 240Hz motion interpolation sony TV and it makes 30fps to 120fps. Some games can be played with this feature(this adds inputlag) I am loving it in final fantasy 13 and 30fps driving games. Input lag increase is too much for platformer games.

Some TVs do conversion better and some worse.(input lag also varies)
 
120hz and 240hz sets smooth out motion and add something like 3 extra frames between normal frames. So yes, it looks smoother. Keep in mind though that the original material is still either 30 or 60fps so there's only so much that can be done.
 
dave_sz
120hz and 240hz sets smooth out motion and add something like 3 extra frames between normal frames. So yes, it looks smoother. Keep in mind though that the original material is still either 30 or 60fps so there's only so much that can be done.
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👍

When we see consoles capable on outputting at much higher framerates we will see a difference. But now, not so much.
 
120 Hz is a bit excessive, isn't it? (240 Hz for 3D)

I guess, as a multiple of 60, it's easier to implement? I don't see why we'd need to go higher than 100 fps / Hz per eye...
Anyway, some interpolation techniques are very impressive, but the input lag will always be an issue if the TV doesn't have some serious processing power...
Wait, maybe the graphics hardware could do the interpolation? The frame buffer would have to push seriously hard to get 200 Hz of 1080p out (HDMI bandwidth issue? How is that being solved for 120 Hz 3D?)
 
TVs do most of hard work so normal cables will do in most systems for 3d. 3d might be something cool in three years but none available currently does make experience better in my mind.(resolution loss, fps loss, possible inputlag and most importantly glasses and possibe eye damage)
 
JDMKING13
during the replay with the 120hz set to medium the game looks scary real/smooth. Does the 120hz make the the replays look as if they were running at 60fp thank you.
Click to expand...
you can't set 120hz to medium...you are setting your frame interpolation software to medium...the TV is ALWAYS running at 120hz...

Raitziger
No only look, they make them 60fps. I Have 240Hz motion interpolation sony TV and it makes 30fps to 120fps. Some games can be played with this feature(this adds inputlag) I am loving it in final fantasy 13 and 30fps driving games. Input lag increase is too much for platformer games.
Click to expand...
again, your set is always running at 240hz...it just depends on how it gets there...does it add enough frames to equal 240hz, or does it add the frames to make it 120, and then double it to 240hz...


Griffith500
120 Hz is a bit excessive, isn't it? (240 Hz for 3D)

I guess, as a multiple of 60, it's easier to implement? I don't see why we'd need to go higher than 100 fps / Hz per eye...
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well it depends on where you are...and what you are watching...

NTSC standard was/is 60hz while PAL was 50hz....so 100hz makes sense for PAL territories...

The problem comes with NTSC really...our standard for the refresh rate is 60hz...this is fine for TV shows, because most are shot at 30fps (equal factor of 60)...but a problem arrises from actual movies...which are shot at 24fps (does not divide evenly into 60)....in PAL territories 24 is REALLY close to a factor of 50, so they could SLIGHTLY speed up the movie to avoid any issues...but in NTSC territories we had to use 3:2 pulldown which displays certain frames longer than others on the screen and can introduce judder...enter the 120hz TV...which allows all sorts of frame rates to be displayed properly...24, 30, and 60 which satisfies all of the NTSC broadcast formats and standards...240 obviously does the same...


Griffith500
Wait, maybe the graphics hardware could do the interpolation? The frame buffer would have to push seriously hard to get 200 Hz of 1080p out (HDMI bandwidth issue?
Click to expand...
could work...but the PS3 is simply not powerful enough....PS3 could probably DO it...but i dont think the RSX has enough juice, you would have to shift that off onto the Cell processor...1080p might be out of the question though...unless the graphics were toned down A LOT to keep that resolution...even 720p would not be very practical either...

maybe the PS4/Xbox720 will have enough power for something like that...but its hard to say...
 

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