GT5 Physics? Realistic?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Subaru_AWD
  • 82 comments
  • 9,918 views
NoxNoctis Umbra
Like every race car driver says when they compare GT to real life, in real life you can archive the same, you are just scared for the car and your life, in GT, you can just reset at any point. So fear factor really plays a big role.. on GT people practice 100,000s of times, in real life, you have few practices, not many get to practice 1,000s of times
Click to expand...


yeap read this 3 part article for insight, it refers to GT4, but the same applies, even if GT5 is more realistic

http://www.insideline.com/ford/gt/2006/ford-gt-vs-gt4-introduction.html

And if I just pulled a 1-minute, 38-second lap time on Grand Turismo 4, driving a Ford GT around Laguna Seca, obviously my lap time in the real world, driving the same car on the same track, should be the same, right?

Why Reality Bites
Wrong. I can't manage better than 1 minute, 52 seconds in the harsh reality of…well, reality. Where did those 14 seconds go? Most of them disappeared on the front straight I just described. Sure, the track's layout and visual cues are all the same as in Gran Turisimo 4. But careening over a blind crest at 100-plus mph is somehow different when seated in Ford's $150,000 exotic press car than it is when seated on a Sparco race seat, staring at a widescreen LCD. Very different.

Watching the practice session replay on Gran Tursimo 4 makes it painfully obvious where — and why — I lost time. In virtual land I keep the throttle mashed all the way over that crest and halfway down the hill before braking for Turn 2. My terminal velocity in the game is around 140 mph. In reality, I'm braking just before I crest the hill, topping out at a meager 105 mph. On a track like Laguna Seca, where your terminal velocity on the front straight is crucial, I'm throwing away any chance of matching my virtual time by refusing to stay on the gas over that crest.

Which brings up the single biggest difference between reality and virtual reality — consequences. A mistake on Gran Turismo 4 costs me nothing more than a bad lap time. A mistake with a real exotic car on a real racetrack is…a bit more costly.
Click to expand...

The tuned 370z in the time trial has 380ps, and weighs 1250kg, based on a screencap I saw :)
 
Last edited:
sems4arsenal
players sometimes get scared while racing online or doing time trails (like myself),although it is not the fear of crashing and dying but the fear of crashing and not winning a race so although not completely the same but there is definatley a fear factor if there is the right motivation
Click to expand...

It's more sweaty handpalms than sweat dripping down your spine. ;)

Fear is always present, not only when your racing ( fear when racing is a no-brainer ) but in everyday life, not crippling fear or anxiety but more on a subconscious level playing a part in every decision you make.
Without fear you probably wouldn't live very long, it is controlling your fears, reducing risk and quickly assessing and using the opportunities given which make a racing driver great.

Relying purely on skill is immature.

Oh yeah, i think GT5 physics will be quite accurate ( not based on anything, just a gut feeling i fear )
 
CoolColJ
The tuned 370z in the time trial has 380ps, and weighs 1250kg, based on a screencap I saw :)
Click to expand...

With R tyres and aero (along with tuned suspension etc)
 
Last edited:
Griffith500
No ****, but that doesn't mean great racing drivers don't feel fear!

There's that old quote from Sir Jackie Stewart, saying when he left for the 'ring, he used to take long look at his house before leaving - as though it might be the last time he saw it!

There's all this machismo these days, though. Jim Clark once said he'd be lying if he said he wasn't scared, but he went out there to race, and that's what he did.
Click to expand...

That`s true

But today things are a bit different, at least for race drivers (and not tv test drivers).
In some motorsports there is no room for fear. For example: Formula One.
Today I would say it`s pretty safe compared to other series (Eventhough it`s still dangerous - Kubica Montreal 2007). A driver has to give 100%, he must get every 1/10th out of his car.
In the Valencia GP last year, loosing 2/10ths in the Q2 session was the difference between P4 and P8.

In the past things were a lot different. Gilles Villeneuve was one of those guys, who could be called "fearless" as a race driver. I have contact to a person who worked as a mechanic in the F1 (And I think that he has an old F1 Car in his garage right now) in the 60s and he said to me about GV: "I think the reason why he was faster then most of his opponents was due to the fact, that he was risking much more when he was driving. Sadly, he lost his life because of this attitude."
 
Yeah, modern safety is a nice big fluffy airbag for the driver, so it makes sense that they can push harder for longer :sly:
This is precisely the reason why I think there's no excuse for traction control or ABS etc. in any racing series.

There's a fine line between being fearless and just plain stupid, of course, and I'm sure many, many drivers have crossed this line at some point!

It's true of Gilles about his "borderline recklessness" (from the outside looking in - but there's no doubt he was actually just damned talented!). You could say the same about Senna's crash, he obviously didn't think the risk was that high, especially due to the frankly 1-in-a-billion trajectory of his severed, knife-edged front right upright (with wheel still attached...) - if it weren't for that, he'd have probably been OK.
 
dave_sz
so they have no skill to get out of sticky situations? Seriously, to be a great racing driver, you have to be fearless.
Click to expand...
If you believe that none of the top race drivers have no fear for loss of life or serious injury then you are somewhat mistaken. What they do have is confidence in their car and their ability to push that car to its limits given the underlying track conditions. They are skilled and experienced, but that does not make them fearless - big difference. While you are correct to a point, the fact remains that NoxNoctis Umbra is absolutely right - "consequence" plays a big part, certainly for the lesser-experienced drivers. In-game, there is no consequence apart from having to restart. IRL, the consequences are potentially huge.
 
This is the reason I reckon almost everyone will be able to beat GPS ghost laps, regardless of who set the real time.

There are sections on many racetracks where overstepping the limit will get you physically killed. For this reason most drivers are probably nowhere near the limit during these sections.

Us GT, drivers on the other hand, can quite comfortably find and exceed that limit, reset and hit it again and again. Even mucking it up and "killing ourselves" occasionally.
 
Fear is the drivers gauge to the car and his limits. If he has none he is either an idiot or a dead idiot. :scared::nervous::scared::nervous::idiot:
 
Last edited:
Graphics are 20% for a racing game IMO. Rfactor is so much more fun than GT5 (in this moment;))
I think you can´t compare IRacing with GT only one word: Money.
GT5: pay once, IRacing: Pay what? I don´t know but I know its to much for a Game/me.
 
Last edited:
Smoothherb
Graphics are 20% for a racing game IMO. Rfactor is so much more fun than GT5 (in this moment;))
I think you can´t compare IRacing with GT only one word: Money.
GT5: pay once, IRacing: Pay what? I don´t know but I know its to much for a Game/me.
Click to expand...

Iracing's a MMO. You pay per month, and you get access to more content as you progress. Plus, you are near-assured good quality racing as there aren't a lot of douches out there. You play with quality racers, even Pro racers from time to time and the Track fidelity and Physics is about the best there is on the market. GT doesn't come close to iracing's level of simulation.

It even has car damage, complete stats tracking, PvP with friends and you can customize your car looks with Skins. For a "MMO-racer" that's huge.

I think the experience is just different overall. If you want to get better at virtual Racing, Iracing will get you there a lot faster than GT5*.
 
I do not even concider iracing to be a game. The whole thing seems so unfriendly towards casual player like me. I like simulation, but it still has to be a game for me.
 
Smoothherb
Graphics are 20% for a racing game IMO. Rfactor is so much more fun than GT5 (in this moment;))
I think you can´t compare IRacing with GT only one word: Money.
GT5: pay once, IRacing: Pay what? I don´t know but I know its to much for a Game/me.
Click to expand...

That`s my feeling today, because GT5 its not released, i totally agree with you about the graphics, IMO is a plus, in that point the king is GT5, but yes, rFactor is soo fun!!!
And the newer mods had a lots of detail!!
 
I will say, one thing Enthusia does, that no game has even come close, even LFS, and least of all iRacing and the GT5 Time Trial, is the power over steer feel and mechanics.

It really feels like your planted on the ground, and there are air filled rubber tyres that are progressively slipping sideways when your in a power over steer situation. Something that you can catch and control just like in real life. All other games make it feel weird and a lot harder than in real life.
Turn in hard, plant the gas, car swings out, ease off the gas, let go of the wheel and catch it as it unwinds - superb.
This also includes downshifting and lift off over steer etc

Even a humble S15 Silvia feels alive in such a situation, just like it does in real life.
Now in the GT5 Time trial, the stock 370z responds just as well to the throttle, but it feels odd, and a bit too abrupt. This is the only thing that GT5 lacks so far.

If you marry this aspect of Enthusia with the GT5 Time trial and better force feedback and you would have my perfect game physics :)
I've played all the major games, except the Forza series, so I can't say how Forza feels in this regard.
 
Last edited:
GT has done a great job when your car has no ABS.

locked up and turning... just like IRL.
 
RedOak
Iracing's a MMO. You pay per month, and you get access to more content as you progress. Plus, you are near-assured good quality racing as there aren't a lot of douches out there. You play with quality racers, even Pro racers from time to time and the Track fidelity and Physics is about the best there is on the market. GT doesn't come close to iracing's level of simulation.

It even has car damage, complete stats tracking, PvP with friends and you can customize your car looks with Skins. For a "MMO-racer" that's huge.

I think the experience is just different overall. If you want to get better at virtual Racing, Iracing will get you there a lot faster than GT5*.
Click to expand...

iRacing is defiantly forging its own marketplace as it has fully sanctioned races moderated by the company themselves, it could have the worst physics in the world, but the way it is run would still put it in a different market. I love iRacing, managed to race against Marcos Ambrose last week and beat him with a last lap last corner pass, now if that doesn't make you feel good nothing will. I would upload a video but it would make me look like a douche :)

Back onto GT5..... I think it is a great game series, best on the console by worlds :). The physics do seem to lack a bit of that connection feeling with the road, and maybe a little too predictable not enough grip changes throughout tracks. I think for the production class cars, physics do come quite close to real life with room for error when sliding about. It doesn't in my eyes simulate weight shifting fully not enough lift off oversteer in FWD meaning you can't bog the fronts down by kicking the accelerator to increase grip. Brakes are the next main thing that should be altered, not enough locking up / ability to turn once they have locked. You seem to be able to slam the peddle even with abs off, on iRacing you really have to dance on that peddle to make it work.
We of course haven't seen the full version, which i am eagerly anticipating and expect a whole heap of physics updates from GT5p.
 
CoolColJ
I will say, one thing Enthusia does, that no game has even come close, even LFS, and least of all iRacing and the GT5 Time Trial, is the power over steer feel and mechanics.

It really feels like your planted on the ground, and there are air filled rubber tyres that are progressively slipping sideways when your in a power over steer situation. Something that you can catch and control just like in real life. All other games make it feel weird and a lot harder than in real life.
Turn in hard, plant the gas, car swings out, ease off the gas, let go of the wheel and catch it as it unwinds - superb.
This also includes downshifting and lift off over steer etc

Even a humble S15 Silvia feels alive in such a situation, just like it does in real life.
Now in the GT5 Time trial, the stock 370z responds just as well to the throttle, but it feels odd, and a bit too abrupt. This is the only thing that GT5 lacks so far.

If you marry this aspect of Enthusia with the GT5 Time trial and better force feedback and you would have my perfect game physics :)
I've played all the major games, except the Forza series, so I can't say how Forza feels in this regard.
Click to expand...

Enthusia had lifeless ABS brakes in all cars, lacks torque steer, tire wear, etc. enthusia's ranking system was frustrating in the wrong ways.

GT5P's physics can't touch LFS's or enthusia's. I say kaido battle is still the most realistic console game with a wheel. proper countersteer feel, torque steer, brake fade(not sure any other game even attempted to catch it), much better high speed feel than enthusia, great tuning options, etc.
 
I have Kaido Racer 2 on PS2 (which is actually Kaido 3 in Japan) - only played with a controller so far and it feels weird. I will have to try it with a wheel, but I only played it for 1 stint after I got it 2nd hand and haven't touched it since, it was freaking boring and turgid looking, feels really arcadey, but we'll see with a wheel. It was nice that it had the Pulsar GTI-R :)

Anyway I was just talking about power oversteer with Enthusia. It feels better and more controllable than anything out there without being "arcadey". You can still spin out and become passenger in Enthusia, just like in the GT5 Time trial. Yeah it does have really laggy steering, but I'm just talking about basic power over steering feel and mechanics.

LFS feels less and less realistic to me each day, and doesn't feel that good anymore. It's just that a lot of other games are worse :)
 
I would say yes the GT5 physics are realistic and after playing the TT demo I would say they are probably too realistic!!

Even though I purchased a G25 1 yr ago it still remains unused and in its box. The reason for this is because I want to keep it brand new ready for GT5. So I had the misfortune of playing the TT demo using the PS3 controller and what a nightmare experience this was. Virtually impossible to be smooth enough to put down a decent laptime.

Some of my TRC friends are coming to GT5. Now none of them have played GT5P because they are very much Forza fans. However because of the disappointment with Forza 3 they are moving over to GT5. I said to them recently if your planning on playing GT5 with a pad then do not touch professional settings and stick with standard. The physics engine has definitely been designed to be used with the wheel.

Anyone who comes from Forza 3 with no experience of playing GT5P/TT demo will have a hell of a shock when they play GT5. This will especially be true if playing professional settings but due to Forza 3 arcade handling I can see them struggling with standard physics at first!
 
Well I played the TT demo with my DS3 and loved it. But you are right that you have to be very precise with the acceleration and steering.

Btw, did you map your throttle and brake to the R2 and L2?
 
Jarmo
Well I played the TT demo with my DS3 and loved it. But you are right that you have to be very precise with the acceleration and steering.

Btw, did you map your throttle and brake to the R2 and L2?
Click to expand...

Yes I used the R2/L2 for throttle/brake.

Don't get me wrong I was able to get the car around the track and after playing for a few days I managed a time in the top 100. However to get to the very top of the leaderboard was impossible with the pad and I reckon I would of knocked a few secs off my time with the wheel.

The problem with games such as Forza 3 is you pick up bad habits. On FM3 you can brake much later and understeer, oversteer are hardly ever encountered. I would go as far to say that PGR3 was more difficult than FM3 and thats saying something!

Just add the other reason why im waiting to use my G25 is im saving for a Gameracer Elite. However I have a thousand questions about this cockpit but unfortuntely they remain unanswered. If any member has a Gameracer Elite cockpit could they please PM me.:)
 
Difficulty of driving in real life is somewhere between arcady forza 3 and "snappy, i will kill you" physics of GT5 demo. I have enthusia and drifting in that feel very nice.(kind of similar to lfs, but i would rank lfs higher)
 
Raitziger
Difficulty of driving in real life is somewhere between arcady forza 3 and "snappy, i will kill you" physics of GT5 demo. I have enthusia and drifting in that feel very nice.(kind of similar to lfs, but i would rank lfs higher)
Click to expand...

You also have Enthusia right? So where does it fall on your ranking scale?

You get help with Forza 3, wether you want it on or not, as detailed here
http://jalopnik.com/5480781/inside-forza-motorsport-part-iii-the-physics-of-driving-games

The game adjusts how much it helps your inputs based on which controller you use. Steering wheels get the least amount of assistance. Driving a car with two fingers — i.e., digitally — is hard, and if you tried it in real life, you'd probably kill yourself. Basically, Forza reduces joystick/wheel and button/pedal sensitivity with speed. Be thankful for the help. Pointless crashing sucks.
Click to expand...

iRacing feels pretty much like the GT5 time trial as I said, but with better force feedback, and more grip on the tyres, in the sense you can mash the pedal hard, and not fly off like in the GT5 Time trial.
Netkar Pro again feels somewhat on the GT5 Time Trial side, but better than iRacing IMO.

Richard Burns Rally is another I need to get back into to compare
 
Last edited:
Doesn't GT historically have some sort of "filtering" of controller inputs according to what you use? What's with the steering settings in the options menu, too? It all makes sense, and I'm glad the option is there, but I suppose it can make comparisons difficult.
 
I don't care for Enthusia at all. I don't feel any connection to the car, mostly because the tire sounds are non-existent until I'm on my way off the track. LFS has a much better tire squeal implementation, and with all its warts, seems the closest to real life car performance to me. However, even Prologue is surprisingly close, and the TT demo even more so, so I expect GT5 itself to be one heck of a racing experience. The Forza peeps will definitely have their eyes opened, though I'm not sure how many will give GT5 a fair assessment.
 
CoolColJ
You also have Enthusia right? So where does it fall on your ranking scale?
You get help with Forza 3, wether you want it on or not, as detailed here
http://jalopnik.com/5480781/inside-forza-motorsport-part-iii-the-physics-of-driving-games
Click to expand...

Enthusia's physics are better than on any full GT released on any PS-system. Enthusia lacks feel of the road compared to real life and everything seems to be a bit in slow motion mode at times. I play enthusia with my turbo S wheel and it feel much better than with g25 as you get more FFB and of course beltdrive adds a touch. LFS is a bit better than enthusia to me in physics but that maybe because you can adjust so many things in a PC-game. But i would rank enthusia and LFS between forza 3 and GT5:demo in my scale. So i like those old physics engines more than current console systems. GT5 has good road feeling but everything falls apart when grip is lost. Forza on the other hand holds your hand so tight it hurts and it is clearly the worst from the comparison group. If only PD would have bought konami's physics engine to be the base for gt5 :).....


Turn 10 excuses are ridiculous as i have the best wheel for the game and i still have to have steering buffer on. Also tyre grip is unrealistic in forza 3.
 
Last edited:
Griffith500
Doesn't GT historically have some sort of "filtering" of controller inputs according to what you use? What's with the steering settings in the options menu, too? It all makes sense, and I'm glad the option is there, but I suppose it can make comparisons difficult.
Click to expand...

Yeah the standard mode in GT5 will be like traditional GT, but enhanced off course. Then you also have all the other aids on top
 

Latest Posts

Back