GT5 simulation (driving physics)

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Having a think today and wondered.......... How 'real' are the driving physics in GT5?

Is it anywhere comparable to the sort of software that are used in the F1 simulators, that they use to learn tracks ect....

Or is it no more than a good looking fun game.

Not being a Pro racer I couldn't really comment myself, so just wondered what you guys think / know.
 
GT5 is a vast improvement over GT4, but doesn't hold a candle to Iracing.

Would love to try out a proper F1 simulator though!
 
GT5 is a vast improvement over GT4, but doesn't hold a candle to Iracing.

This is spot on.

I would say that the GT5 physics are pretty good. They are far more sim like than arcade like. However, they are nothing like as good as some PC sims such as iRacing.

However, whatever the sim there will always be arguments about how the physics are not good enough. I'm sure an F1 team's simulator is far from perfect even disregarding the lack of G forces etc. etc..
 
GT5 physics are real enough I think, because at the same time they are fun and acessible to everybody with a minimum of skill.
I don't know why so many people from this site want IRacing physics (or whatever) for Gran Turismo. Go play IRacing instead or drive your real car if you have one :P
 
[youtubehd]eUIbYJr93fE[/youtubehd]

[youtubehd]SN2qacfOALs[/youtubehd]

[youtubehd]5Ja9kH7US8I&hd=1[/youtubehd]

[youtubehd]Z8EUqLtOwKM&hd=1[/youtubehd]
 
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Hopefully they'll continue on the path of making driving more real with each GT. 👍

Still some way to go imo.
 
I don't think iRacing is $200 a year better than GT5, and I'm not going to spend the money to find out. But compared to the PC sims I own, GT5 holds up well. It feels very simlike. Just take a 370Z on Comfort softs around the Indy infield track, and if you don't smile, you aren't giving GT5 a fair shake.

By the way, I think the last video above is proof that the driver view in GT5 is too low. Both cams are almost DASHBOARD level.
 
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Tyres and suspension need to see a vast improvement, if they make strides in these areas for the next GT then it might stand a chance of competing with the PCs best, which is currently - netKar Pro.
 
Gt5 is amazing for what it is, I come from gtr2 rfactor netkar pro and iracing, and I keep coming back to gt5. Iracing is good, especially the racing, but it feels funny, you have to tweak the game settings, in gt5 it already feels good. The only thing that needs changing is the tire longevity, and better aero physics, everything else feels good.
 
Google for gt4 jeremy clarkson you my find two stuff: the top gear show featuring a comparison between video game and reality ( he uses a 2010 honda nsx @ laguna seca in gt4 and irl ) and a the Times article about the same comparison. Clarkson is not a proper driver but he quite drives lots of cars, so there is a good opinion. There hundreds of threads about this subject also, you should look for it to have phetora of point of views.
 
Tyres and suspension need to see a vast improvement, if they make strides in these areas for the next GT then it might stand a chance of competing with the PCs best, which is currently - netKar Pro.

I would say suspension is fine they just need to fix aero physics and the tires. I think once they do that all that work they have done will look a lot better. I expect GT6 to be very natural feeling, especially with all the new wheels coming out.
 
Tyres and suspension need to see a vast improvement, if they make strides in these areas for the next GT then it might stand a chance of competing with the PCs best, which is currently - netKar Pro.

I agree. In addition to that, however, it'd also need:


  • More realistic auxiliary system simulation (like the ABS, it needs to work in impulses and of differing efficiency depending on the car class and production year)
  • Brakes fade, feel, operating temperature, consumption, damage and failure
  • Clutch fade, feel, operating temperature, consumption, damage, failure and supported torque (depending on the installed model)
  • More extended and detailed mechanical damage (transmission, electrics, tires, brakes, different parts of the engine, etc.......)
  • Proper collision detection with obstacles (slopes, curbs, etc) and car's chassis. Example: http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6090/6099892114_6fb499282e_b.jpg. The long overhangs of cars such as Ferrari ones can really be a problem in real life. In GT5 it doesn't matter, any car can go over any obstacle
  • More realistic airborne and crash dynamics
  • More realistic center of gravity for tall cars (or in general, more accuracy for internal car specifications)
  • More realistic fuel tank sizes and positions
  • ...
Tuning is a a completely different beast, it would need vast improvements there too, especially in power upgrade realism, but I guess it's not really physics-related

I would say suspension is fine they just need to fix aero physics and the tires. I think once they do that all that work they have done will look a lot better. I expect GT6 to be very natural feeling, especially with all the new wheels coming out.
Suspensions are simulated in a very general way in GT5. They are not fine at all for a car simulator.
Sporty FF cars can't even lift their internal rear wheels under heavy G unless you tune suspensions to do that (and that not always work). They don't seem to be affected by throttle steering either.
Things like wheel hop don't seem to be simulated. The list of things/details in suspension simulation that would need to be added is long.
 
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I hate PC sims, they ruin racing, i tried some, and I'm never buying one. You have to buy them in dollars (???) and they are expensive. Actually, a 1 euro game for PC is expensive, PC is for working and free games. And all cars are hard to handle.
 
  • More realistic airborne and crash dynamics

Absolutely - Even with the aftermarket wing set at it's lowest possible level, most, if not all, cars still react as if you have a hippo in the trunk. Take the wing off and it "flies" completely level in the vast majority of cases.
 
I keep seeing "needs realistic damage" comments in many different threads.

You want realistic damage... in a racing enviroment... in a video game? Who here has been in a wreck while racing? You very rarely can drive away, not to mention keep on racing after a collision while on track.

And, to the "needs realistic airborne" comment... how many road course race tracks in real life have you getting a full second or more of air time?

Bottom line, is that when you hit things (cars, walls, pavement after a jump), things are going to break. And they will break to the point where it ruins your day.
 
^^^Exactly. If I got slammed by the A.I. or someone online that had damage on, and they hit my front end, I'd like my car to be totaled. I'd like brakes to be able to fail, and I'd like to be able to see the actual engine and perform general maintenance on my vehicles.
 
Ask Jeremy clarkson. He might be able to answer the question

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/jeremy_clarkson/article552096.ece

Gran Turismo 4
Pass the joystick, sonny, this is the future of driving
Jeremy Clarkson

Five weeks. That’s how long it is since my back exploded and I was banned from driving. I’ve never gone so long without climbing behind the wheel so, to keep my hand in, I’ve booted the boy-child off his PlayStation and now spend my evenings playing something called Gran Turismo 4.

We’re always being told by the makers of these computer driving games that they’re virtually indistinguishable from the real thing. In fact the maker of Gran Turismo goes further, saying that the programmers drove all the 700 cars featured in the game so they could bring real-world handling characteristics and power delivery to your living room. Yeah, right.

I’ve played these Grand Turismo games before and so I know the form. You start with a handful of loose change that you spend buying a crummy car, which you then use in races to win more money. The better you get, the more you win, until eventually you have enough to fit it with better tyres or a turbo.

That means you can go faster and win bigger races with more prize money until, eventually, you have enough to buy a better car. And so it goes on.

Now this is all very noble, teaching children they can’t have something for nothing and that if they want a BMW M5 they’re damn well going to have to put the hours in.

But the reality is rather different. What happens is that you invest about three weeks winning a new car, and after that a new game comes out in which you can shoot James Bond in the face. So you forget all about your new car and play that instead.

My children spend most of their time playing a game called Grand Theft Auto which, so far as I can tell, involves driving around a city knocking over as many people as possible. And then, when the police come, stealing another car.

So Sony is on to a winner. It can make all sorts of bold claims about how its Gran Turismo cars are the same as the real thing because no one will ever be able to prove it wrong. Those who earn enough digital money to buy the computer cars will have no time left for earning the real spondulicks. So they won’t have a proper car to compare with the interpretation on the PlayStation.

I got round this by cheating. I called Sony and asked it to send me a game chip already loaded with the 700 computer cars. And I am in a position to test out its claims because, unlike most people, I really have driven almost all of them in real life.

There are mistakes. The BMW M3 CSL, for instance, brakes much better on the road than it does on the screen. And there’s no way a Peugeot 106 could outdrag a Fiat Punto off the line. But other than this, I’m struggling: they’ve even managed to accurately reflect the differences between a Mercedes SL 600 and the Mercedes SL 55, which is hard enough to do in real life.

There’s more, too. If you take a banked curve in the Bentley Le Mans car flat out, you’ll be fine. If you back off, even a little bit, you lose the aerodynamic grip and end up spinning.

That’s how it is. This game would only be more real if a big spike shot out of the screen and skewered your head every time you crashed. In fact that’s the only real drawback: that you can hit the barriers hard without ever damaging you or your car. Maybe they’re saving that for GT5. Perhaps it’ll be called Death or Glory.

Whatever, you could definitely use GT4 as a device for trying out your next car, especially if you’re thinking of buying a Viper. That’s just as undriveable in the game as it is on the M6.

But the best thing about the game is the inclusion, for the first time, of the Nürburgring. Last year I spent a couple of days trying to get round this fearsome 13-mile track in a Jaguar diesel in less than 10 minutes. In the game I shaved two minutes off that time by using an Aston Martin DB9. And I didn’t have to spend a night in a bierkeller, singing to oompah music.

The track really is devastatingly accurate, even down to the graffiti that has been painted by motor racing fans on the tarmac over the years. Maybe some of the bumps are missing, and there’s one braking point that is completely wrong, but if you’re planning on going to the Ring this summer, get the game first. You’ll save yourself a fortune and stand a much smaller chance of being killed to death.

I’ve looked into how the Japanese boffins manage to recreate real life so accurately and it seems patience is the key. They do drive every car to make sure its torque, grip and aerodynamic properties are accurately replicated. And they photograph each one up to 500 times to make sure it looks exactly right. They even film them on tracks, using the Top Gear camera crews. And you need a lot of patience for that, trust me.

So when you “drive” the car, it leans and dives and squats just like the real thing. Even the shadows look real. So real that BMW uses the GT game for testing out new ideas on cars before giving them to test drivers.

Of course, like just about every car firm in the world, it took BMW about five seconds to realise that PlayStation reaches a part of the market that television advertising cannot. The PlayStation generation. As a result, just about all of them bend over backwards to help the makers of the game in any way possible.

Except Ferrari.

According to the maker of the game, “some car makers want more money to be featured than all the rest of the car makers put together”. Sadly, his mobile went dead before I could confirm it was indeed the Eyeties. Technology, eh? So I rang a Ferrari spokesman who explained that his company was fantastically litigious and protective of the cars, the racers and even the noises they make. And that they already have a deal with EA Games. Well, that’s complete and utter madness, because as a result my nine-year-old is growing up wanting a Honda NSX.

He’s worked out that if you want to win races this is by far the best car to use. If I didn’t know better, and there were no laws of libel, I’d suggest that maybe Honda had indeed bunged Sony a few quid to give a few more digital horsepower.

Whatever, my boy cannot be unique. All over the world there are other kids who know the fastest car in the world is Honda’s V6 supercar. And that’s what they’ll buy when they grow up.

Except they won’t, because last month Honda announced that after a 15-year production run the NSX is about to die.

It was never the prettiest car in the world. It’s rather as though someone described a Ferrari to someone over the phone. And unlike its Italian rivals it was not a passionate car. But it was hugely technical. The noise of the engine. The feel of that all aluminium backbone. It felt digital rather than analogue.

It was also exceptionally good value for money but, sadly, in the whole of its life Rowan Atkinson was the only person to buy one, and now it’s gone to that V-tech scrapyard in the sky amid news that Honda is already working on a V10-powered replacement.

I have an idea for this new toy, an idea that will be in keeping with the technicality of its predecessor. Instead of giving it a cumbersome steering wheel and 20th-century pedals, neither of which is needed when you have electronic braking and electronic power steering, why not simply fit it with a PlayStation controller? I’m not joking. We know it works and, at the very least, the car could be left or right-hand drive depending on whoever had the handset. I’ve seen the future. And it’s in your sitting room.
Explore Jeremy Clarkson
 
GT5 have no good physics, just mimic, like an old video game old patern old game... Troll ok check this no tire model it's just an arcade game i'm so disapointed... And it's not a bug.
 
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slashfan7964
^^^Exactly. If I got slammed by the A.I. or someone online that had damage on, and they hit my front end, I'd like my car to be totaled. I'd like brakes to be able to fail, and I'd like to be able to see the actual engine and perform general maintenance on my vehicles.
That would be cool although I think some car manufacture's marketing team would probably object. It's just if the consequences are greater perhaps maybe drivers would think twice about collisions, entry and exit speeds, where to pass safely, etc (just like IRL) or if i missed the apex at 150mph skidded of the track hit the wall that's it my car is done! I can't finish the race because of damage, On top of that now i gotta go grind for millions to fix it. Hopefully the folks over at PD consider implementing and improving the damage/consequence engine in the future.
 
G24
It's just if the consequences are greater perhaps maybe drivers would think twice about collisions, entry and exit speeds, where to pass safely, etc (just like IRL) or if i missed the apex at 150mph skidded of the track hit the wall that's it my car is done! I can't finish the race because of damage, On top of that now i gotta go grind for millions to fix it.

I'd like to see that idea taken even further.

Let's have a complete game mode (let's call it "R-spec" where "R" stands for "reality") that works along the paths of real life in a sense that each driver and car is unique. Whatever wear and tear your car takes carries on from race to race unless specifically fixed. Crash you car, and your driving stops right there and then and you need to spend some serious money if you ever want to drive that same car again. Also if your driver is seriously injured or even killed, you lose all your progress and achievements and need to start all over again with a new driver.

The thing is, in GT5 everybody drives like a maniac because your errors have no lasting consequences. You can always hit the replay-button to start over and once the race is finished, no matter how hard you punished your car it's back in your garage ready for another spin. Also that fellow behind the wheel who just got smashed into wall at 200mph is merrily waiting for another go at it.

In real life, nobody drives like that because it's too risky. Too risky on your health (you might get hurt or even killed) and too risky on your wallet (most of us don't have gazillions to spend on cars and repairs). As a result, "the real driving simulator" is far from real right from the beginning as the rules governing the experience are totally different from real world. With this kind of "R-spec" we could see driving that is closer to real world as everybody needs to take care of their health and wealth. Just like in real life.
 
I wouldn't get too carried away with "R-Spec," since no game, even sim, will likely ever go quite as far as that. But something like that in a true Career Mode, I would enjoy.

I also wouldn't say that everyone drives so stupidly because we have no fear of consequences. Among the millions of GT fans, sure, there are the kids and punters who bash their way around the track. But I think among the few million hardcore of us, we're not that different than the thousands who total their car in real life on the Nordschleife, or the pro drivers who will literally risk their lives for one-half less second of lap time.
 
Consider:

On the front page of this site are several articles about people in several countries evolving from playing GT5 to becoming real-life racing drivers.

On the front page of this site are several articles about an ex-F1 driver racing people in GT5 whilst he does the same thing for real.

Not many games can claim things like this.
 
eigernordwandshorttrack_2.jpg


Having a think today and wondered.......... How 'real' are the driving physics in GT5?

Is it anywhere comparable to the sort of software that are used in the F1 simulators, that they use to learn tracks ect....

Or is it no more than a good looking fun game.

Not being a Pro racer I couldn't really comment myself, so just wondered what you guys think / know.



You obviously missed both the search feature and the Mercedes/ David Coultard event.
 
By the way, I think the last video above is proof that the driver view in GT5 is too low. Both cams are almost DASHBOARD level.

I think most of all its proof the most unrealistic aspect of GT5 is how little the in game steering wheel is turned compared to real life.


Its the only thing about GT5 I am disappointed and now pissed of about, especially since they had full 1:1 animations working in the past.



wacth from about 1 min 30.

You can almost feel the wheel turning the car even on that crappy video. Imagine what it would feel like to actually play it with 1:1 animation.

Not this dogs breakfast literally half arsed steering animation they changed to for the Release prologue and GT5.

GT5 animations looks like the driver is a 90yo man with a power assisted car that turns for him
 
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I think the GT5 steering wheel physics are fine. Hold your hands at 9 and 3, and very rarely do you have to shuffle steer or cross over... just like IRL.
 
GT5 have no good physics, just mimic, like an old video game old patern old game... Troll ok check this no tire model it's just an arcade game i'm so disapointed... And it's not a bug.


Low speed physics suck in the game, a lot of racers who review the game always push the cars and say its pretty damn good. Why Cant PD make a game with low speed and high speed physics good?
 
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