Perhaps this will. I seem to have to repeat myself a lot here...
Other racing games are heralded as having far better A.I. than Gran Turismo. They point out things like:
- Their bots don't ram the player.
- Their bots yield to the player.
- Their bots drive more like humans do.
Except they most certainly DO ram me. They DON'T yield to me that often, in fact in Ferrari Challenge, it almost seems like a trap because they give you all of a second or two to pass, and then they try to slam you off the road. And their bots DO NOT drive like anything but skillful little kids. In EVERY game I've played, the bots ram you, they don't yield, they slam right into you many times if you're stopped on the track.
The ONLY difference I'm aware of is that the behavior is just slightly different between every game, but the differences are VERY hard to quantify because NONE of them are particularly CONSISTENT.
Now, I understand you come from South America, but SURELY this is clear to someone who has a good grasp of English as you do.
You are one of the few people in the forum that say this, and I want to say "thanks for understanding" because it really means something to me that people know I'm not in position to understand each and every word they say. 👍
I understand everything that you are saying. My problem right now lies in that I made a simple question: Would you start caring about GT5 improving its A.I. (from what was shown in the demo. That is, if it isn't being improved right now) if other racing simulators had better and consistent A.I.?
That's all I'm asking, it's simple. It's a "Yes" or "No".
Yes, to contrast against them. Not to copy them. Besides, real life racing isn't a video game. The WRC and SCCA are real world leagues, not racing games. Yes, Toca is a racing game, but you can create a considerably different structure to it, so that it is no longer Toca.
Gran Turismo and Forza have similar structures, you are right, but you can't say Forza is a copy of Gran Turismo, since though they share similar structures, they are different games. Much like an Audi A3 and a Volkswagen Bora. The analogy does serve to illustrate my point (or so I want to think...).
Now, let's compare two games, shall we?
Gran Turismo
- You begin with a certain amount of credits used to either buy a very potent sports car, or a lesser car you can enhance with performance modifications.
- There are dealerships around the world which you can go to in order to buy a range of sport cars, highly tuned cars, exotic cars, drift cars, and flat out pro race cars.
- There are tuning options in the game in which you can modify your car extensively with a number of performance parts of increasing capability and price, including tires.
- You enter basic, short races with hopes of beating A.I. drivers in order to win credits and prize cars.
- There is a ladder of progression where the tracks, cars and to an extent, bot A.I. become more challenging. The races become longer and rewards ever greater, both in credits and more powerful cars, though there are exceptions.
- Winning a race series yields prize bonuses of additional credits and cars.
- There are endurance races of various lengths.
- There are progression points through the game such as 25% completion, 50% and 100% completion which reward you with additional cars.
- In the last game of the series, new modes were added such as Photo Mode and trainable bots.
And
Forza
- You begin with a certain amount of credits used to either buy a very potent sports car, or a lesser car you can enhance with performance modifications.
- There are dealerships around the world which you can go to in order to buy a range of sport cars, highly tuned cars, exotic cars, drift cars, and flat out pro race cars.
- There are tuning options in the game in which you can modify your car extensively with a number of performance parts of increasing capability and price, including tires.
- You enter basic, short races with hopes of beating A.I. drivers in order to win credits and prize cars.
- There is a ladder of progression where the tracks, cars and to an extent, bot A.I. become more challenging. The races become longer and rewards ever greater, both in credits and more powerful cars, though there are exceptions.
- Winning a race series yields prize bonuses of additional credits and cars.
- There are endurance races of various lengths.
- There are progression points through the game such as 25% completion, 50% and 100% completion which reward you with additional cars.
- In the last game of the series, new modes were added such as Photo Mode and hire-able bots.
Interesting list. I will make my changes once I get through the following:
And there are darn few differences. GT1 and 2 had race mod with preset body kits and liveries.
Not very interesting, considering the "Race mod" was later replaced by a mere wing, and the liveries removed. Only thing that was missing was the slight weight reduction that came with the race modification. Before that, liveries couldn't be manipulated.
Forza has a choice of bodykits and user created liveries.
A much more improved version of the above. Of course, it takes away some points at it was a newer console.
GT2 and 4 offered used cars, which Forza doesn't.
Before you tell call me anything (if you are going to, that is, if not, I'm sorry), I will say that, if you tell them the basics of the used car lot to any person, they will say it isn't much impressive. These are the basics that make cars bought in the used car lots different from those bought in dealers:
- Usually cars that can't be won, or bought.
- Mileage. (Only radical jumps in mileage make any difference in the car's handling).
- Oil. (A few hp loss, nothing else.)
- The need to bough chassis refresh. (A small change in handling, that got pronounced if you drove the car more and more, but that wasn't restricted to used cars.)
- Used car lots rotated. 100 different weeks.
Basically, that is everything in GT4. Don't get me wrong, though I love used car lots, it isn't a big merit. Moreover, it is more of a pain in the 🤬 than anything else.
GT2 has partial mechanical damage
What happened between GT2 and GT5?
Forza has partial mechanical and visual damage.
Every racing simulator has partial mechanical and visual damage. No manufacturer will allow cars to be completely destroyed.
It depends on the reader's interpretation of partial, but I think most will agree with me.
Gran Turismo is known to have an excellent music player set up with lots of options, Forza is very limited, however does offer user playlists in Forza 2.
Gran Turismo, excellent music player set up?
Only songs I liked were "My favourite game" in GT2, and three or four songs in GT4, two of them classic.
Forza, very limited as you may say, offers a vast amount of possibilities with user playlists. I would call it a smart move. Why bother adding songs if people can add what they want?
Gran Turismo is heralded for excellent, fun to watch replays, forza for poor replays.
Forza is also notable for its ability to realistically model damage to cars, from both a cosmetic and a performance standpoint, Gran Turismo for the lack of damage (four games in a row).
If you have to ask me, I'd rather stick with damage than replays. I personally never bothered with replays, except when I take pictures, or when I'm bored.
On the PS2, you can save any number of cars and replays, while even on a hard drive equipped XBox, you can't.
More like hardware limitation than game limitation, right?
Gran Turismo is famous for impeccable car and track modeling, while Forza is notorious for errors.
I wouldn't call Gran Turismo's tracks and cars impeccables, it seems like you are making the game look better than it actually is, but overall, I agree with you. If there's something Gran Turismo is undoubtely better than Forza in, it is graphics.
Gran Turismo is renown for stability and a bug free game
You aren't certainly acquantainced with some bugs of the Gran Turismo series, are you?
while Forza is well known as requiring frequent patches, and some flaws are never addressed. Oh yes, and Forza 3 has a lovely rewind button.
Leaving aside the flaws it has, since Gran Turismo also has them... Livery editor, damage on
all cars (over 400), over 100 tracks, the ability to create in-game videos and upload them to the Forza Motorsport website, a new single-player season mode will put the player through a completely personalized racing calendar that includes more than 200 different events, including Circuit, Oval, Drag, Drift, and Timed Events; no two calendars will be the same. Porsche, if you want to get picky.
You pointed out some things of Gran Turismo, I point out some things of the upcoming game (what we have been told). It isn't just a "lovely rewind button", as you call it. That, especifically, is one of the things that makes me doubt if there's a point discussing with you.
However, none of those points above have a thing to do with gameplay or design, they are tangential. Can you name any game like these two?
Not Need For Speed. Not Toca. Not DiRT or GRID. Not GTR. Not Live For Speed. Not Burnout or Motorstorm. Not PGR. Maybe Sega GT, but it's been ages since I played it so I can't be sure.
You might as well face it. My post illustrates why Forza is still referred to as "Gran Forismo." It should be painfully clear.
I think I have already proved you otherwise than Forza isn't "Gran Forismo", as you describe it (and honestly, it's the first time I have heard that denomination). Even if the game is a copy, why do you bother in criticizing a copy? That's one of the most interesting things here, and Devedander has posted something similar before. Some of you guys focus too much on other game's problems instead of focusing in GT's own.
One of the biggest problems with this conversation is the following: You take so little time to describe some of GT's features, that after I write "a lot", I look like a Forza fanboy, angry, who tries to makes his point, when it's not like that at all.
I don't know. Some may tell you it is, some may not. I personally don't pay attention to it, until the game is released. I suggest you do the same, just to not get dissapointed (if you were thinking of buying the game, that is!).
